M1 protest

Nesta99

Ironic thing about all this is that business people in Dundalk would love to have any ring rd disappear as they believe it would increase numbers of people through the town and thus increase trade. No pleasing people. In the greater scheme of things 20 mins journey through urban areas wouldnt warrant a ring rd. Now back iin the days it could take an hour to get through Drogheda, Balbriggan, Julianstwn, Dunleer etc it was time to pack the tea and sandwiches to get to Dublin Airport and home again. Even Dundalk inner relief road came to a bottleneck at Newry Rd Bridge until the mllenium bridge was opened 2001 (i think) causing traffic to back up the town. 8 sets of lights i count through the centre of Dundalk?

borderlinemeath

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a small town in European terms or in World terms, i.e., anywhere but Ireland where we think every town and village "deserves" a motorway-grade bypass.

But we're not talking about European towns and cities. Are you comparing our two lane motorway to the 5 lane autobahns or the motorways in France, or even the UK for that matter? Because they are nowhere near the standard of our European counterparts so to compare Drogheda to other European towns and cities in your 'real terms' is laughable.

So you want to build a new bridge to handle the people who won't pay the toll as it stands?

For the residents of Drogheda who have to suffer with the traffic every day. You were the very one that stated that 'motorways shouldn't be used for short journeys' :rolleyes: so what do you expect the residents to do?? Suffer with the traffic or use the motorway?? It's one or the other. The last bridge to be built in Drogheda was the pedestrian bridge at scotch hall, the towns road infrastructure across the boyne hasn't been touched in about 40 years bar the toll bridge and the Haymarket bridge which is of no use other than to get into the car park and up to West St. The town has expanded hugely and nothing has been done to help the residents navigate the town.

Peppa Pig

Adelaide Nervous Hedge wrote: »

You pay the toll to cross the bridge.

Adelaide Nervous Hedge wrote: »

As already stated. You only pay the toll if you use the tolled stretch of the road and the bridge. Just don't use it.

You don't have to use the bridge to pay the toll. Coming from Balbriggan to the Donore road means you pay at the toll plaza but come off before you go near the bridge.

borderlinemeath

borderlinemeath wrote: »

But we're not talking about European towns and cities. Are you comparing our two lane motorway to the 5 lane autobahns or the motorways in France, or even the UK for that matter? Because they are nowhere near the standard of our European counterparts so to compare Drogheda to other European towns and cities in your 'real terms' is laughable.

Drive them. Loads of Motorways across Northern France are mainly 2 lanes and it'll cost you over 20 quid to get to near Belgium. As for standards, another load of "oh we Irish are so terrible at everything" rubbish. Our motorways have a 160km/h design speed, higher than some of the French motorways you'll pay through the nose to driver on with their 200m off-slip before a right-angle turn with a 50km/h speed limit.

For the residents of Drogheda who have to suffer with the traffic every day. You were the very one that stated that 'motorways shouldn't be used for short journeys' :rolleyes: so what do you expect the residents to do?? Suffer with the traffic or use the motorway?? It's one or the other.

Yes, it is one or the other. Where did I suggest they should use the motorway for around-town journeys? You realise towns will very, very rarely allow a completely non-stop run from one end to another?

The last bridge to be built in Drogheda was the pedestrian bridge at scotch hall, the towns road infrastructure across the boyne hasn't been touched in about 40 years bar the toll bridge and the Haymarket bridge which is of no use other than to get into the car park and up to West St. The town has expanded hugely and nothing has been done to help the residents navigate the town.

Matter for the council, not the NRA. It's a local issue, not a national one and irrelevant to the M1 and its toll.

borderlinemeath

Deleted User wrote: »

Drive them. Loads of Motorways across Northern France are mainly 2 lanes and it'll cost you over 20 quid to get to near Belgium. As for standards, another load of "oh we Irish are so terrible at everything" rubbish. Our motorways have a 160km/h design speed, higher than some of the French motorways you'll pay through the nose to driver on with their 200m off-slip before a right-angle turn with a 50km/h speed limit.

I have driven in maybe 6 or 7 European countries. I've paid the tolls and yes they are far greater than here but I am of the opinion that the transport system in the majority of countries I visited are far superior than here. The argument is whether the town of Drogheda should be penalised for the toll when the likes of Swords and Dundalk get away without having the problems that Drogheda does. Would you be happy to see toll ramps put at the Ballymac and the south Dundalk exit to ensure you paid every time you went into your own town? Sure you would:rolleyes:

Yes, it is one or the other. Where did I suggest they should use the motorway for around-town journeys? You realise towns will very, very rarely allow a completely non-stop run from one end to another?

I've managed to do that in Dundalk by using the N52 very easily. Much easier town to drive in, far less traffic lights, ease of movement for drivers.

Matter for the council, not the NRA. It's a local issue, not a national one and irrelevant to the M1 and its toll.

The M1 toll in Drogheda is a local issue and the fact that there's little or no infrastructure over the Boyne is the NRAs way to ensure that any new bridge isn't used as a toll dodging route. There has been talk of a bridge from the Marsh Rd to the North Quay to alleviate traffic heading for Baltray/Termonfeckin and also a bridge from Rathmullen Rd to Mell to alleviate traffic on the bridge of Peace but neither will get funding for fear it will take money off the toll.

Lord TSC

This all sounds very familiar. :P

borderlinemeath

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I have driven in maybe 6 or 7 European countries. I've paid the tolls and yes they are far greater than here but I am of the opinion that the transport system in the majority of countries I visited are far superior than here. The argument is whether the town of Drogheda should be penalised for the toll when the likes of Swords and Dundalk get away without having the problems that Drogheda does. Would you be happy to see toll ramps put at the Ballymac and the south Dundalk exit to ensure you paid every time you went into your own town? Sure you would:rolleyes:

From where to where? Are you familiar with the idea of population density, population spread, transport nodes etc.? Also something of a difference in terms of how long the motorway systems have been constructed. If driving from Dundalk to most of Europe the only bit that isn't motorway is if you go via Rosslare, because the demand isn't there. There are few decebt-sized population centres on the island not connected by motorway.
If they built a new road and tolled it I'd use the old road, simple.

I've managed to do that in Dundalk by using the N52 very easily. Much easier town to drive in, far less traffic lights, ease of movement for drivers.

From where to where? The majority of journeys will involve going through town and plenty of lights and traffic lights if I want to go from here without using the motorway to DkIT I'd go through I think 12 sets of lights and some pedestrian crossings. To use the bypass would still mean 9 sets of lights along roundabouts and a longer route. That's what happens living in a town.

The M1 toll in Drogheda is a local issue and the fact that there's little or no infrastructure over the Boyne is the NRAs way to ensure that any new bridge isn't used as a toll dodging route. There has been talk of a bridge from the Marsh Rd to the North Quay to alleviate traffic heading for Baltray/Termonfeckin and also a bridge from Rathmullen Rd to Mell to alleviate traffic on the bridge of Peace but neither will get funding for fear it will take money off the toll.

This is why I sometimes with governments just wouldn't build anything.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

All this nonsense about the size of Drogheda. It is not a big town. 20 minutes stuck in traffic is nothing compared to Dublin, Cork etc.
As for the ease of travelling through Dundalk compared to Drogheda. Try the N52 in Dundalk at commuter or school times. It is grid locked. Likewise the Carrick Rd approach to the town. This happens all over. It is not unique to Drogheda. So let's no turn this in to a persecution complex or a Dundalk versus Drogheda issue.

borderlinemeath

Adelaide Nervous Hedge wrote: »

All this nonsense about the size of Drogheda. It is not a big town. 20 minutes stuck in traffic is nothing compared to Dublin, Cork etc.
As for the ease of travelling through Dundalk compared to Drogheda. Try the N52 in Dundalk at commuter or school times. It is grid locked. Likewise the Carrick Rd approach to the town. This happens all over. It is not unique to Drogheda. So let's no turn this in to a persecution complex or a Dundalk versus Drogheda issue.

How very handy for you to say when you're in Dundalk:rolleyes:.

The most vocal opponents of the ramp tolls on both threads don't even live in Drogheda, and I'm sure you would welcome ramp tolls with open arms if they were installed in Dundalk.

locum-motion

SolvableKnave wrote: »

H... Both on the Dundalk side of the bridge.

Factually incorrect. Both tolls are south of the bridge.

locum-motion

SolvableKnave wrote: »

... They are the only tolled slip roads in the country.

Again, factually incorrect.
Slip road from Shannon Tunnell towards Caherdavin have tolls.
Slip roads near the Johnstown Marriot Hotel on the M4 have tolls.

They're just two that I can think of right now, but I'm fairly sure there's more.

But, in any case, you need to get away from the idea that they are "tolled slip roads". They're not. They are merely roads used to access or to exit a tolled section of motorway. (And by the way, it's not a 'toll bridge' either.)

In the case of the M1, there are two sections of motorway that are tolled: one of them is from Junction 7 to Junctions 8&9, and the other one is from Junctions 8&9 to Junction 10.

Travelling either North or South, if you choose to use either of those sections, you have to pay the toll. If you choose to use both sections on the same trip (or if you choose to break your journey in Drogheda and continue within 3 hours), then you get a 'Buy One Get One Free' deal.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

borderlinemeath wrote: »

How very handy for you to say when you're in Dundalk:rolleyes:.

The most vocal opponents of the ramp tolls on both threads don't even live in Drogheda, and I'm sure you would welcome ramp tolls with open arms if they were installed in Dundalk.

Just for the record - I am not in Dundalk!
I'm sorry to burst your stereotyping but I have no bias in this. I'm in Drogheda every bit as much as Dundalk. I see the situation with unjaundiced eyes.

lucernarian

Adelaide Nervous Hedge wrote: »

All this nonsense about the size of Drogheda. It is not a big town. 20 minutes stuck in traffic is nothing compared to Dublin, Cork etc.
As for the ease of travelling through Dundalk compared to Drogheda. Try the N52 in Dundalk at commuter or school times. It is grid locked. Likewise the Carrick Rd approach to the town. This happens all over. It is not unique to Drogheda. So let's no turn this in to a persecution complex or a Dundalk versus Drogheda issue.

I would think that it's precisely because it's not a big town that 20 minute journey times seem rather excessive. The traffic light situation also seems to hinder the R132 so much that it is now quicker even sometimes outside of peak traffic to travel by the Ballymakenny Road or the R168 depending on the exact direction of traffic.

Any situation which makes the Ballymakenny Road quicker to use on a regular basis is a very bad one for all kinds of road safety reasons.

I'm not sure what the answers are but heavy volumes of cars driving through central parts of towns with lots of pedestrians is not a good idea. The mess that is the vicinity of Shop St. and the Marsh Road needs to be sorted through giving alternative routes through the town.

To_be_confirmed

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I would think that it's precisely because it's not a big town that 20 minute journey times seem rather excessive. The traffic light situation also seems to hinder the R132 so much that it is now quicker even sometimes outside of peak traffic to travel by the Ballymakenny Road or the R168 depending on the exact direction of traffic.

Any situation which makes the Ballymakenny Road quicker to use on a regular basis is a very bad one for all kinds of road safety reasons.

I'm not sure what the answers are but heavy volumes of cars driving through central parts of towns with lots of pedestrians is not a good idea. The mess that is the vicinity of Shop St. and the Marsh Road needs to be sorted through giving alternative routes through the town.

Short of picking the start and/or end-point of a journey right next to the "bypass" in Dundalk you'll be looking at a similar average speed crossing the town as in Drogheda.

Jacknory

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/news/tollfree-month-shows-no-need-for-traffic-woes-29960184.html

Although the linked article shows a reduction in HGVs if there were no tolls, it shows the pressure that the town is put under with these additional vehicles.

I would suggest removing the slip tolls and reducing the motorway speed to 100kph between junction 9 and 10 to allow for people using the bridge to get from one side of Drogheda to the other. The hard shoulder could be turned in to a driving lane to allow for town traffic.

For those who will respond by saying that this would turn the motorway in to a rat run.....this system (reduction of motorway speed around built up areas) is used across Europe Once motorists observe the rules on motorway driving than there shouldn't be a problem.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Jacknory wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/news/tollfree-month-shows-no-need-for-traffic-woes-29960184.html

Although the linked article shows a reduction in HGVs if there were no tolls, it shows the pressure that the town is put under with these additional vehicles.

I would suggest removing the slip tolls and reducing the motorway speed to 100kph between junction 9 and 10 to allow for people using the bridge to get from one side of Drogheda to the other. The hard shoulder could be turned in to a driving lane to allow for town traffic.

For those who will respond by saying that this would turn the motorway in to a rat run.....this system (reduction of motorway speed around built up areas) is used across Europe Once motorists observe the rules on motorway driving than there shouldn't be a problem.

It is only used sparingly in Europe on 3 lane or higher motorways for a start. Then you are completely ignoring that the slip is a charge for using the PPP motorway section. If you don't want to pay to use it then go around it. Its unfortunate but that's the fact of life there. You really can't have the best of both worlds.

ardmacha

I would suggest removing the slip tolls and reducing the motorway speed to 100kph between junction 9 and 10 to allow for people using the bridge to get from one side of Drogheda to the other. The hard shoulder could be turned in to a driving lane to allow for town traffic.

So let me understand this, people travelling towards Dundalk, who have paid the toll, will have their journey lengthened so that a lot of local traffic can use the M1 for free?

Jacknory

I've seen this in France, Belguim, Portugal, Holland and Switzerland on 2 land motorways. Going around the toll is not an option for lots of people.

Best option for Drogheda is to ban HGVs (between certain hours) from the town and to build an additional bridge to alleviate traffic problems.....funding to be provided by the state.

I'm not a fan of Ken Healy but at least he's trying to do something about it....whatever you think his reasons are (when has any politician campaigned for something other than to try and garner votes)!!

Jacknory

ardmacha wrote: »

So let me understand this, people travelling towards Dundalk, who have paid the toll, will have their journey lengthened so that a lot of local traffic can use the M1 for free?

Why would their journey be lengthened? The main lanes would not be disturbed and the reduction in speed would be for about 4km

Lord TSC

Jacknory wrote: »

I'm not a fan of Ken Healy but at least he's trying to do something about it....whatever you think his reasons are (when has any politician campaigned for something other than to try and garner votes)!!

One day a year for how many years now? And he's achieved nothing of note in the years he's been "working" on it. Don't be fooled, it's entirely about garnering votes via an annual stunt.

Jacknory

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

One day a year for how many years now? And he's achieved nothing of note in the years he's been "working" on it. Don't be fooled, it's entirely about garnering votes via an annual stunt.

I don't disagree with you at all........but don't all politicians do the same

Lord TSC

Oh yeh, have very little time for any of them. Just responded to the implications that he is above them all cause he is "doing something".

Scotty #

As I've mentioned before, what we need is tolls on EVERY slip road on our motorways. Make EVERYONE who uses our motorways pay their share and not just the ones unfortunate enough to pass a particular point. Register every vehicle as it drives onto the motorway and charge them based on distance travelled, as they leave the motorway.

Getting rid of the on street parking on Trinity St and having two lanes of traffic into the town would do more for congestion than removing the toll (maybe?).

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Scotty # wrote: »

As I've mentioned before, what we need is tolls on EVERY slip road on our motorways. Make EVERYONE who uses our motorways pay their share and not just the ones unfortunate enough to pass a particular point. Register every vehicle as it drives onto the motorway and charge them based on distance travelled, as they leave the motorway.

Getting rid of the on street parking on Trinity St and having two lanes of traffic into the town would do more for congestion than removing the toll (maybe?).

Keep in mind and that the existing toll covers a portion of motorway funded by PPP and not all the motorway. You want citizens to pay to use roads they have already, via the state, paid for? That's nonsensical and impractical. It also smacks of "if I suffer they should all suffer".
We have paid our share for the untolled motorway sections. The tolls are paying investors for building other sections that the state found too expensive - usually encompassing a bridge.

Scotty #

Adelaide Nervous Hedge wrote: »

Keep in mind and that the existing toll covers a portion of motorway funded by PPP and not all the motorway...

The PPP, through Celtic Roads Group, manages and maintains 54KM of the motorway (from Dublin/Meath border to north of Dundalk) funded ENTIRELY from tolls. Lots and lots of vehicles use part of this 54KM without having to pay a toll. It's only those that have to go through the toll that are paying ALL the funding. Seems unfair to me.

Again, motorways are designed for long journeys. They're not intended for short hops around a small town.

locum-motion

Scotty # wrote: »

As I've mentioned before, what we need is tolls on EVERY slip road on our motorways. Make EVERYONE who uses our motorways pay their share and not just the ones unfortunate enough to pass a particular point. Register every vehicle as it drives onto the motorway and charge them based on distance travelled, as they leave the motorway.

Getting rid of the on street parking on Trinity St and having two lanes of traffic into the town would do more for congestion than removing the toll (maybe?).

I agree with you on the underlined section.
I disagree with you on the bold part.

Tolls on every slip road - with their infrastructure and staffing requirements - would be FAR FAR too expensive an option. A single gantry the same as the one on the M50 in between each pair of junctions would do the job much more efficiently and you don't have to pay a guy to sit there 24/7.

Scotty #

Ahh yea, I mean an automated system of course.

event

Jacknory wrote: »

I've seen this in France, Belguim, Portugal, Holland and Switzerland on 2 land motorways. Going around the toll is not an option for lots of people.

Best option for Drogheda is to ban HGVs (between certain hours) from the town and to build an additional bridge to alleviate traffic problems.....funding to be provided by the state.

I'm not a fan of Ken Healy but at least he's trying to do something about it....whatever you think his reasons are (when has any politician campaigned for something other than to try and garner votes)!!

build an entire new bridge (where??) to alleviate traffic problems in one town and every taxpayer in the state should pay? Are ye for real?

Jacknory wrote: »

Why would their journey be lengthened? The main lanes would not be disturbed and the reduction in speed would be for about 4km

Journey time would be lengthened. Again, reduce speed on a motorway just so people in Drogheda can get around quicker?

Here's another idea, lets build an additional lane on every road in Louth that only drogheda people can use, therefore alleviating any delays they may experience on the roads

sawdoubters

it used to be 1.20 on the m50 then government ttook it over its now 3.60