Tim Sherwood

indiewindy

THFC wrote: »

I genuinely think we are 1 world class player away from breaking into the top 4. Take Suarez away from Liverpool and they'd struggle big time. Look how far we were away this season and we had our worst season in about 5 years. Swap Suarez for Adebayor, get in a very good manager and all of sudden we'd look a real force. The problem is the only we'll get a world class player is if we develop him, so realistically it's going to take 2-3 very good players, which is unlikely at best.

Totally disagree about a complete squad overhaul. Walker has proven that he's a capable premiership-standard defender (no more though), Lennon along with a good few others have just had rotten seasons, which given the circumstances is somewhat forgivable. Get in a decent LB, a very good CM and a 15-20 goal-a-season striker, along with a manager with a clue, and I think we'd have an excellent team.

have you forgotten all the hammerings this season?

Undercover

The points total that we've somehow managed to acquire despite how poor we have been this season does give me hope for next year. A new manager who knows what he's doing and one or two astute signings and we shouldn't be far off top 4. It will be tough but sure you wouldn't want it any other way. Hope springs eternal. Summer's often the best time for us Spurs fans :-)

mushykeogh

THFC wrote: »

I genuinely think we are 1 world class player away from breaking into the top 4. Take Suarez away from Liverpool and they'd struggle big time. Look how far we were away this season and we had our worst season in about 5 years. Swap Suarez for Adebayor, get in a very good manager and all of sudden we'd look a real force. The problem is the only we'll get a world class player is if we develop him, so realistically it's going to take 2-3 very good players, which is unlikely at best.

Totally disagree about a complete squad overhaul. Walker has proven that he's a capable premiership-standard defender (no more though), Lennon along with a good few others have just had rotten seasons, which given the circumstances is somewhat forgivable. Get in a decent LB, a very good CM and a 15-20 goal-a-season striker, along with a manager with a clue, and I think we'd have an excellent team.

I would tend to agree, we have top quality players, they are just not performing, this time 12 months ago we were laughing at liverpool, now look at them. A good manager and good organisation and we should be looking to give everything a good go.

golfball37

Arsenal haven't lost to a team in the bottom half since their opening day defeat by Villa. They have been shocking against teams in the top 7 [us excepted of course].

It shows that if you can beat the dross you will be close. [ryhme not intended]

Tiger Tims win ratio is just an extension of this, he is doing what we expect. beating teams we are better than. he has been found out big time when we step up in class though. AVB's problem was he couldn't even manage the latter.

Whoever we get they should be able to at least do what Sherwood has done and then I'm hoping will have a plan for the bigger games.

ziedth

I think the big hope is that Soldado some how gets a new lease of life under a new manager. We'd never sign a CF as good as he was at Valencia

Sugarlumps

ziedth wrote: »

I think the big hope is that Soldado some how gets a new lease of life under a new manager. We'd never sign a CF as good as he was at Valencia

Since Ade's goals have dried up I was expecting him to feature? He hasn't moaned once.

Martin567

golfball37 wrote: »

Arsenal haven't lost to a team in the bottom half since their opening day defeat by Villa. They have been shocking against teams in the top 7 [us excepted of course].

It shows that if you can beat the dross you will be close. [ryhme not intended]

Tiger Tims win ratio is just an extension of this, he is doing what we expect. beating teams we are better than. he has been found out big time when we step up in class though. AVB's problem was he couldn't even manage the latter.

Whoever we get they should be able to at least do what Sherwood has done and then I'm hoping will have a plan for the bigger games.

Really?

AVB - 99 pts from 54 games = 1.83 pts per game
Tim - 39 pts from 21 games = 1.86 pts per game

Therefore their points per game ratio is effectively the same. Also, AVB guided the team to league wins against Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal & Liverpool. He only had 2 defeats in the last 22 games last season.

He had to bed in a lot of new players at the beginning of this season but still managed 7 clean sheets in the first 10 games. He wasn't faultless but I liked him a lot and I still think he was incredibly harshly treated. Listening to him speak, I would have had far more confidence in him than I do in Tim Sherwood.

Ormus

Martin567 wrote: »

Really?

AVB - 99 pts from 54 games = 1.83 pts per game
Tim - 39 pts from 21 games = 1.86 pts per game

Therefore their points per game ratio is effectively the same. Also, AVB guided the team to league wins against Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal & Liverpool. He only had 2 defeats in the last 22 games last season.

He had to bed in a lot of new players at the beginning of this season but still managed 7 clean sheets in the first 10 games. He wasn't faultless but I liked him a lot and I still think he was incredibly harshly treated. Listening to him speak, I would have had far more confidence in him than I do in Tim Sherwood.

Agree completely, chalk and cheese as far as knowledge of the game goes and how they put themselves across.

AVB's methods ran into problems but I'm not convinced he wouldn't have turned it around.

Sugarlumps

http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1815090?&cc=5739

golfball37

Martin567 wrote: »

Really?

AVB - 99 pts from 54 games = 1.83 pts per game
Tim - 39 pts from 21 games = 1.86 pts per game

Therefore their points per game ratio is effectively the same. Also, AVB guided the team to league wins against Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal & Liverpool. He only had 2 defeats in the last 22 games last season.

He had to bed in a lot of new players at the beginning of this season but still managed 7 clean sheets in the first 10 games. He wasn't faultless but I liked him a lot and I still think he was incredibly harshly treated. Listening to him speak, I would have had far more confidence in him than I do in Tim Sherwood.

Last season he had the most expensive player in history, you can only judge his record against Tim this season and when stacked up he is short.

Sherwood is not good enough but he has been an improvement on the bluffer. AVB's Spurs have Hull as the highest ranking team they best this season and only with a dodgy penalty.

We were going nowhere with him and fans were turning away such was the lack of goals. Tim has been a joke too but we have improved under him

Ormus

golfball37 wrote: »

Last season he had the most expensive player in history, you can only judge his record against Tim this season and when stacked up he is short.

Sherwood is not good enough but he has been an improvement on the bluffer. AVB's Spurs have Hull as the highest ranking team they best this season and only with a dodgy penalty.

We were going nowhere with him and fans were turning away such was the lack of goals. Tim has been a joke too but we have improved under him

Most expensive player in history. So what? We all know Bale is an excellent player and a major loss but to reference him as the most expensive player in history fools nobody into thinking he is the best player in history.

If AVB is a bluffer then what is Sherwood? At least AVB had a plan, even if it wasn't working. Sherwood doesn't even bother with a plan.

AVB has won his first 6 matches with Zenith. Not saying that proves anything, it's only the Russian league, and I know Sherwood had a similar start with Spurs. Will be interesting to see how their respective careers develop though. I reckon AVB will be around longer than Sherwood. Only time will tell.

Hammar

Ormus wrote: »

Most expensive player in history. So what? We all know Bale is an excellent player and a major loss but to reference him as the most expensive player in history fools nobody into thinking he is the best player in history.

If AVB is a bluffer then what is Sherwood? At least AVB had a plan, even if it wasn't working. Sherwood doesn't even bother with a plan.

AVB has won his first 6 matches with Zenith. Not saying that proves anything, it's only the Russian league, and I know Sherwood had a similar start with Spurs. Will be interesting to see how their respective careers develop though. I reckon AVB will be around longer than Sherwood. Only time will tell.

I don't know about that Ormus,Jesus his tactics against Liverpool at the Lane were the most idiotic i've personally ever seen deployed by a professional football manager. Playing a ridiculously high defensive line, on occasions less than 10 metres from the half way line with personnel like Dawson up against the likes Suarez beggars belief. AVB's first half of the season was like Sherwood's second half,we mostly beat the teams we were far more talented than,and flopped badly against the top 4,and both had the occasional horrible results against poor teams also.
Neither AVB or Sherwood were/are up the gig.

LostArt

Hammar wrote: »

I don't know about that Ormus,Jesus his tactics against Liverpool at the Lane were the most idiotic i've personally ever seen deployed by a professional football manager. Playing a ridiculously high defensive line, on occasions less than 10 metres from the half way line with personnel like Dawson up against the likes Suarez beggars belief. AVB's first half of the season was like Sherwoods,second half,we mostly beat the teams we were far more talented than,and flopped badly against the top 4,and both had the occasional horrible results against poor teams also.
Neither AVB or Sherwood were up the gig.

You didn't watch the game at Anfield then?!

Ormus

Hammar wrote: »

I don't know about that Ormus,Jesus his tactics against Liverpool at the Lane were the most idiotic i've personally ever seen deployed by a professional football manager. Playing a ridiculously high defensive line, on occasions less than 10 metres from the half way line with personnel like Dawson up against the likes Suarez beggars belief. AVB's first half of the season was like Sherwood's second half,we mostly beat the teams we were far more talented than,and flopped badly against the top 4,and both had the occasional horrible results against poor teams also.
Neither AVB or Sherwood were/are up the gig.

Ah yeah things did go pear shaped I agree. The high line was madness with Dawson involved. And the inverted wingers were tedious.

I STILL think we were better organised than under Sherwood though. Our defence was great at the start of the season and with different personnel our attack might have thrived.

The only reason Sherwood started well was because he had a new 120k a week striker called Emmanuel, whose raison d'etre was to make AVB look bad for not playing him.

Hammar

LostArt wrote: »

You didn't watch the game at Anfield then?!

I did,although I will admit to turning it off after about 65 minutes,i personally thought the one at the Lane was worse from a tactical/game planning POV.

Don't get me wrong,id rate AVB ahead of Sherwood, whose idiotic team selections,with his love child Bentaleb an ever present,playing Chadli in the centre,Erikson on the wing,not to mention his treatment of Sandro and his bizarre media outbursts,signify that he is in way over his head.

I just don't think AVB was up to the task either.

positivenote

I'm sorry but Anyone who thinks that Sherwood is an improvement on AVB is just being silly. AVB turned his back on an approach from PSG to stay with us, he got us our best pts total in the EPL, he has won league titles and European competitions. To say he is a bluffer is just ridiculous to be honest.

DubPerryman

positivenote wrote: »

I'm sorry but Anyone who thinks that Sherwood is an improvement on AVB is just being silly. AVB turned his back on an approach from PSG to stay with us, he got us our best pts total in the EPL, he has won league titles and European competitions. To say he is a bluffer is just ridiculous to be honest.

Can't agree more!

Plus he went on to manage a Zenit team lacking in confidence and has won 6 games out of 7 and drawn the other. They're now top of the league.

mushykeogh

DubPerryman wrote: »

Can't agree more!

Plus he went on to manage a Zenit team lacking in confidence and has won 6 games out of 7 and drawn the other. They're now top of the league.

And he went 8 wins in row with spurs last season? Still a flop with me.

Hammar

positivenote wrote: »

I'm sorry but Anyone who thinks that Sherwood is an improvement on AVB is just being silly. AVB turned his back on an approach from PSG to stay with us, he got us our best pts total in the EPL, he has won league titles and European competitions. To say he is a bluffer is just ridiculous to be honest.

He lost 7 games in 27 in the 2011/12 Premier league with Chelsea.
Chelsea had lost 7 or less games a season every year except for one,since the 03/04 season. He also lost the dressing room there,before he was fired.
He had a good first season,with us just missing out on the champions league,but the wheels came off this season,
3-0 West Ham,6-0 Man City and 5-0 Liverpool,just wasn't good enough.
His 3 years in English football were mixed,
Chelsea-Poor, Spurs year 1-Good,Spurs Year 2-Poor.

jobeenfitz

Regardless of how good or bad Sherwood is as a manager I felt sorry for him today.

It is wrong that he is hearing from the players that he is to be sacked (if it's true). I believe he will be sacked and I think its best all round.

It is probably an awkward situation as someone at the club may be reassuring the players by whispering about the manager's exit.

Fair play to Sherwood for trying to behave professionally and honestly in the middle of all this whispering.

positivenote

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Regardless of how good or bad Sherwood is as a manager I felt sorry for him today.

Fair play to Sherwood for trying to behave professionally and honestly in the middle of all this whispering.

totally disagree... he has sniped,back stabbed and undermined his way to the role he currently occupies. The way he is being treated is Karma and he never should have been given the opportunity in the first place to manage the club we all love. If he wasn't Jamie's buddy and had mates in the media he'd have been ridiculed in a similar manner to the way he has ridiculed our club since his appointment by his ludicrous behavior on the sideline, with his team selections, his undermining of the players etc etc etc...
sooner the better he's out of the club altogether.... and he can bring Freund & Ferdinand with him.

tom1ie

positivenote wrote: »

totally disagree... he has sniped,back stabbed and undermined his way to the role he currently occupies. The way he is being treated is Karma and he never should have been given the opportunity in the first place to manage the club we all love. If he wasn't Jamie's buddy and had mates in the media he'd have been ridiculed in a similar manner to the way he has ridiculed our club since his appointment by his ludicrous behavior on the sideline, with his team selections, his undermining of the players etc etc etc...
sooner the better he's out of the club altogether.... and he can bring Freund & Ferdinand with him.

Can you provide examples of when he has "sniped backstabbed and undermined" on his way to manager? I don't want him as manager anymore either but to be making statements like that is a bit much, unless you can provide examples of course

positivenote

tom1ie wrote: »

Can you provide examples of when he has "sniped backstabbed and undermined" on his way to manager? I don't want him as manager anymore either but to be making statements like that is a bit much, unless you can provide examples of course

He undermined hoddle when he was in charge, Then in Sept 2012 Richard Keys tweeted "Tim Sherwood tells us today that spurs were tired- overworked -and unhappy with AVB"... This is an example of what is factually mentioned numerous times. Sooner the better the snide, novelty, Jamie Redknapp loved idiot is no longer near our football club the better.

same ol sh1te

Ponchetino said in interviews that he's sitting down and talking with us tomorrow and that his project at Southampton is over.

KingJamsie

same ol sh1te wrote: »

Ponchetino said in interviews that he's sitting down and talking with us tomorrow and that his project at Southampton is over.

Believe he said he would be sitting down Saints tomorrow, not spurs?

2nd Row Donkey

^^^ yeah, something about Southampton been at the end of their 5 year plan and comments directed to a 'new plan' and the 'next step for the club'.

I think he's angling for a way out.

Bodie Doyle

Robbed from the Guardian 10 talking points today:

Tim Sherwood referenced his 59 per cent win ratio in the Premier League after the final-day victory over Aston Villa, which compares favourably to his managerial predecessors at Tottenham Hotspur and he believes that the numbers make the case for the continuation of his employment. His record, since taking over from Andre Villas-Boas last December, reads: P22 W13 D3 L6 GF40 GA30 Pts42. Transpose it across 38 matches and you get 72.5 points and, although the half-point does not scan in real terms, the tally essentially would have put Tottenham in fifth place this season which, Sherwood argues, is their level. "It will be interesting to see what I've been judged on," Sherwood said, with a nod towards his looming meeting with the chairman Daniel Levy, which will decide his fate. "If I am to leave, it can't be on results."


Does he deserve to be sacked?

Sugarlumps

He did a grand job for someone with basically no experience. His outbursts on the touchline and bizarre interviews, (although a lot of it was true) well he could of done without that. Leaving key players out at times probably cost us a few points, finishing 5th perhaps but still not challenging for CL.

Unless you have two potent strikers in form throughout the season, then you’re always gonna struggle. The back four were all over the place this season, a horror show at times, Lloris must have been constantly cursing in French. Sherwood seems to have a lot of support from the media, ex-players you name it. I haven’t heard anyone actually come out and say he shouldn’t be given it on a full time basis.

2nd Row Donkey

I think the results from the first 6-8 games should be discounted.
Any new manager coming in thats worth his salt is going to get a reaction from the team and a bit of a honeymoon period.

Its the results over the last 20 or so games (league and cups) since that he should be judged on - and they aren't all that great.

DubPerryman

TS has done 'OK' with a good bunch of players.

Though, the reason he will definitely be sacked is that there is obvious unrest in the changing room. He's fallen out with Sandro and Capoue in his short time in charge.

Also, Levy knows that with such unrest, players will start leaving. Levy needs to steady the ship by bringing a new manager in and hopefully turning over a new page for the club.

Oh, and apparently TS wasn't told about being sacked after the Villa game because Ledley's testimonial is on today. They didn't want that match to be played on the back of negative news. I'd say he will be told by the end of the week.