After 4 kids, when can Mum go back to work?

Schnuckelputz

We've recently moved back to Ireland from Scandinavia with 4 kids. While Dad is working full time, and the youngest just a half year, Mum knows that given the childcare costs in the Dublin area, it's not feasible to go back to work just yet. But looking to the future and purely from a financial perspective, the question we're trying to answer is: when could Mum go back to work? How do we even start trying to do such calculations? I guess it comes down to calculating the cost of a full-time child minder? We get dramatic comments on this topic from other mothers, but I would like to get a more clear understanding of our options.

Any comments or pointers welcome, thanks.

pwurple

It depends entirely on both of your wages and what your outgoings are.

You need to balance cost of childcare and an additional person working (working clothes, transport, food) against the joint after-tax income generated. Is part time work or flexitime available in either of your jobs to cover the afternoon when the children are not in school? Do you live close enough to any afternoon activities or transport links for the children to use. How will you cover the school holidays and childminder holidays?

Sauve

mod

Hi OP,
I've moved your thread to this forum as I think you'll get better advice here.
Please note this forums charter now applies.
Sauve.

Moonbeam

Ir depends on how much you are willing to pay I will have 4 soon and the oldest is just 5 so the cost of childcare > way greater then what I am prepared to part with!
It also depends on what type of childcare you want,with 4 a nanny is often the most cost effective,she comes to your house and you have to pay her at least minimum wage and employers taxes on her behalf. For 4 children it will still vary but depending on ages and what is expected form the nanny it costs about 12 euro an hour + employers tax.
Creches for 4 in the Dublin area are crazy, it was 2100k for my eldest 2.
A childminder is her own house is your other option,you drop and collect and she minds them in her own house,minimum wage does not apply and she can earn 15k tax free. Again this depends on the ages of the kids but would normally be the cheapest option.
childminding.ie would have more info about childminders.
There are local childcare committees in every area whom you can contact too.

Sleepy

Realistically, unless your wife is an extremely high earner, I can't see it being financially worthwhile for her to return to work until all 4 are in school and can avail of after-school care of some sort.

Victoria Fortescue

Sleepy wrote: »

Realistically, unless your wife is an extremely high earner, I can't see it being financially worthwhile for her to return to work until all 4 are in school and can avail of after-school care of some sort.

Sadly this is the reality of it. I've two children in after school care, anything beyond two I would would struggle with financially. I'd be working only to pay minders fees basically.

clairefontaine

The only argument against not going back to work until they are in school is the one for staying in the game.

If you have four kids and wait until all of them are in school, your cv might end up outdated. And you are competing with younger single childless women who will work for less and don't have the same competing responsibilities.

pwurple

clairefontaine wrote: »

The only argument against not going back to work until they are in school is the one for staying in the game.

That's one, but there are a few other reaons as well as staying in the game. Her sanity maybe.

Sometimes people are much happier working. And happiness can often be worth taking a financial hit too. Depends on the family circumstances whether that makes sense for them or not.

Tombo2001

pwurple wrote: »

That's one, but there are a few other reaons as well as staying in the game. Her sanity maybe.

Sometimes people are much happier working. And happiness can often be worth taking a financial hit too. Depends on the family circumstances whether that makes sense for them or not.

Thats the thing.

People on this forum can only say what makes sense for them personally.

But everyone is different.

The only answer I could give is - find out or form a view on all the information - cost of childcare, alternatives such as au pairs or montessori, potential earnings, whether you can put up with being at home with the four kids, what will the impact on family life be of mum going back to work (a lot of takeaway dinners? a lot of driving around dropping off and collecting) - and then make an informed decision.

I think danger is that by posting the question here you are trying to find out 'what is the norm'....but (apologies if this sounds like a lecture) that is not a good reason to do one thing or the other.

Moonbeam

Scandinavia has an amazing subsidised childcare system and I think that might be the issue,it must be a bit of a shock to the system coming from there to here.

Hannibal Smith

What are they ages of the children?

My reason for asking is, if you have one of school age and one of montessori age (which would qualify for the free ecce year), you would have two discounted/part time childcare costs and two full time costs, during the school year. So if the second salary covers childcare costs...you're good to go.

I only have two children and am working part time my salary covers child care costs because the eldest is in school. My contract is only temporary to cover maternity leave and finishes in may. That nicely coincides with the school holidays when childcare costs become full time and too expensive to justify.

My plan for the next few years therefore is to look for temporary work from Sept to may/june, take the summer off, rinse and repeat. That way I'm keeping my toe in the water and my skills up to date until they're both in school and im able to afford something more permanent.

My friend has four and went to work mornings when the youngest started school.
She likes it but it's very busy with 3 different pick-up times from school.

Sleepy

Very difficult to find work that's mornings only too!

RainyDay

Sleepy wrote: »

Realistically, unless your wife is an extremely high earner, I can't see it being financially worthwhile for her to return to work until all 4 are in school and can avail of after-school care of some sort.

And then there's the school holidays to think about...

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

Very difficult to find work that's mornings only too!

True, it depends on your qualifications and experience I suppose.

Sleepy

To an extent... it also hugely depends on your line of work and social capital. If there's a family business, a friend (or a friend of a friend) that can make use of your skills it makes life a lot easier.

There are of course some jobs where it's worthwhile having some extra help for morning shifts in term time but they're not as common as they used to be (particularly with the public sector hiring freeze as the state was the only place I've ever heard of to have term time contracts) and competition for them is fierce. Salaries for such flexibility tend to be considerably lower than their full-time equivalents too due to that high level of competition.

Then there's the ideal parent friendly jobs where production of work to a deadline (e.g. columnist, author, artist, writer etc.) is all that matters and the actual hours worked are irrelevant, but in reality such jobs are rare and considered "dream jobs" by so many that the competition for them is immense. It generally requires immense talent in order to succeed in those roles when there's a lot of competition from others that are unencumbered by family responsibilities that can be far more flexible than a primary carer parent.

There are perhaps thousands of parents with high levels of qualification and/or experience who can't make use of them due to our high childcare costs.

LilMrsDahamsta

When you're doing your sums, consider the cost of an au pair. Its the only option that made financial sense for us and we're only dealing with rural Cork childcare costs for 2! If you get one that has a background in childcare and can drive, they should be able to manage 4 kids including school runs.

Moonbeam

An au pair is not meant for full time childcare either though.

LilMrsDahamsta

No, of course not. But if you've kids in school/pre-school year/creche in the morning, an au pair can be a bit more affordable than 4 x childcare fees for afternoons. I wasn't suggesting that they would be a total solution at all, but worth looking into all the same.