5 Players to watch in 2014

ulster_Beef

its_phil wrote: »

Not sure why Chris Henry is in this list. He's 29 and been around the block

Bod and Darcy come to mind but we'll not go there lol

Board_man

With O'Brien ruled out through injury and heaslip adding absolutely nothing to the Irish backrow, I would be very interested in seeing Robin Copeland get a chance in a green jersey. Has been Cardiffs best player all season

sydthebeat

Board_man wrote: »

With O'Brien ruled out through injury and heaslip adding absolutely nothing to the Irish backrow, I would be very interested in seeing Robin Copeland get a chance in a green jersey. Has been Cardiffs best player all season

As what, a 7?

Board_man

sydthebeat wrote: »

As what, a 7?

From what I'm aware of, he can play across the 3 backrow positions. Personally I just don't see what heaslip brings to a team

ScissorPaperRock

Board_man wrote: »

From what I'm aware of, he can play across the 3 backrow positions. Personally I just don't see what heaslip brings to a team

Here's a great article on what Heaslip brings to the team

http://www.thescore.ie/jamie-heaslip-ireland-1193036-Nov2013/

armchaircoach

Board_man wrote: »

From what I'm aware of, he can play across the 3 backrow positions. Personally I just don't see what heaslip brings to a team

I suggest you check out the opta index which is run by the acturists at amlin insurance. It rates all European players over a range of different criteria, and weighted to reflect how important an action was in the context of that match.

Board_man

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

Here's a great article on what Heaslip brings to the team

http://www.thescore.ie/jamie-heaslip-ireland-1193036-Nov2013/

Ok I agree this article shows heaslip in a good light, but this is the analysis of one match in which I believe no one could be faulted by their efforts against the ABs. But on a weekly basis I find heaslip to hyped up more then he is and is usually quite average. Maybe I overreacted by saying he is a bad player and brings nothing, I would just like to see Shcmidt take a chance and try Copeland out in the 6N

.ak

Board_man wrote: »

Ok I agree this article shows heaslip in a good light, but this is the analysis of one match in which I believe no one could be faulted by their efforts against the ABs. But on a weekly basis I find heaslip to hyped up more then he is and is usually quite average. Maybe I overreacted by saying he is a bad player and brings nothing, I would just like to see Shcmidt take a chance and try Copeland out in the 6N

Right now Copeland is not even in the same galaxy as Heaslip, never mind planet.

Fireball07

.ak wrote: »

Right now Copeland is not even in the same galaxy as Heaslip, never mind planet.

Didn't know Heaslip was an astronaut...





But yeah, people slagging off Heaslip is getting really boring. He is clearly a good player, and it just leads to people going to the other extreme, hyping up his performances beyond what they are. I think he's been playing well recently but there have been times in the past 2 years where his form has been below what it could be..... but of course people can't say that without exaggerating people, and then people go over the top in defending him and it makes all the discussion worthless.


Copeland is not as good as Heaslip, simply because Heaslip is a monster in defence, his tackling stats are incredible while Copeland's defensive play is probably his weakest side.

.ak

The breakdown aspect of Heaslips game is really what separates him from the pretenders, if you watch how many breakdowns he gets to in a play you'll see why coaches rate him so much. His actual style of play and work rate actually puts him in the 'work horse' category but people seem to think he's still a show pony with no form.

I don't buy the dip in form thing. If anything the stats prove he's been playing better in the last two years than he ever has. 2011 was particular good, but he was unstoppable at the business end of last season too. Like armchaircoach said above, check out the opta index for a cold hard look at how he's played in Europe over the last while and that's where we land - I have no problem if people don't rate him and slate him, and I equally have no problem if people want to overhype him, so long as you make your case and not just rely on cliches.

Fireball07

I will say that stats aren't everything though... obviously they give you an idea of a game but I have watched games before where some players have been very average but look great if you were to just look at the stats and not watch the match.

I mean stats don't give a context, a bone-shuddering tackle that prevents a certain try is ranked the same as bringing down a player who is eking out yards in his own 22. All tackles have to be made obviously, but some are easier to make than others.

I'm not saying that in relation to Heaslip, it's just a general point, but I dunno, there have been times when I have expected more from Heaslip... but he is generally a very consistent player and certainly Ireland's best 8. (Although if it were to come to a choice to pick one of SOB & Heaslip to stay, it would SOB every time... I would overlook the "getting more rugby out of him" argument... in reality, Leinster have a strong squad and for most of the Pro12 don't need all their internationals. Losing either would be a massive blow, that can't be understated, but SOB is a gamechanger... in attack, defence, at the breakdown, his carrying... just everything, he is a phenomenal player.)

armchaircoach

As far as I am aware the opta stats do use av weighting system that takes into account what the action was, what was the field position, what was the scoreline at the time, as well as the relative league positions of the teams involved. So they do provide more insight into a player.

But would agree with you in general that you could twist stats to prove any point, so they should be taken in context.

Tox56

Problem with Heaslip is that stats are things you have to rely on if you want to get a message across unless you're willing to make an article like that Murray Kinsella one. Just like I would miss the contributions of 90% of the players on an American football field outside the QB and the Wide Receivers, casual rugby fans (and I'm really trying not to sound condescending here) will miss a huge amount of Heaslip's work because it's not something they pay attention too (at least I didnt when I started watching rugby, it took me a long time to really appreciate that side of the game) and even the individual efforts he would make at a ruck aren't earth shattering, but it's the accumulation of those efforts and relentless consistency that makes what he does valuable.

Many many times he can have a very good game that is very important to the team effort but unless you follow him around the pitch you could easily forgiven for thinking he was average. Don't get me wrong he has his eye catching performances, but he is a lot more consistent than he is sometimes given credit for. 1 eye catching game and 2 of his efficient and effective games can be easily seen as 1 good game and 2 below par games, and that's where a lot of the criticism of his inconsistency stems from

razorblunt

.ak wrote: »

Right now Copeland is not even in the same galaxy as Heaslip, never mind planet.

Steady on there Will "Mafasua is Universe Class not just World Class" Greenwood.

astonaidan

Looking forward to seeing Victor Matfield back in South Africa see wheres he at.
Also I think Ian Madigan will come back strong in 2014