[Superthread] Mayweather vs Pacman **NO STREAMING REQUESTS**

walshb

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

But it's anyone he faces now he makes them look ordinary and for that he should be given credit and manny isn't ordinary. I'd love to see him go really take it his foe in second half of the fight when he's comfortable he threatens to but then holds back and I said before maybe it's the trouble he's had with his hands last 8/9 years. All the crap on here he was running dodging over exaggerated noting about the quality right hands he landed with ease last night and I believe he hurt manny with them hence manny never let go he was afraid of them punches

I may need to watch it again, but were there really many quality right hands? Sure, he threw many, but how many landed clean and were of substance? This is my main issue with Floyd. The substance and effectiveness of his shots. I don't see it all that much. Listening to the commentary any flashy and snappy right lead thrown was being hailed as genius whether it landed or not. Similar to Pacman vs. Bradley in fight 1. HBO were ridiculous in their commentary analysis.

Bubolor

Drumpot wrote: »

Stayed up and watched the fight that went exactly how I expected.

I was dissapointed with the outcome and how pacman couldn't catch mayweather. I think mayweather is a superb athlete and a great tactician. But his style isn't easy on the eye. It's just a bit sad for boxing that the best boxer of this generation is best at grappling, running and dodging opponents.

I think Mayweather is beautiful to watch boxing.

Drumpot

blade1 wrote: »

You were disappointed even though the fight went exactly the way you expected?

The minute the fight was announced anyone that knew what they were talking about knew the fight would be more or less like it turned out.
Most people that thought pac would win were I felt getting carried away because he is so popular.

People don't watch sporting events because they always go the way they are expected to, they watch them for the drama and unexpected. As you would see from my post i prediction section I felt mayweather would win on points. I watched in the hope that manny would rattle him more but it didn't materialise.

If I didn't bother watching things because I presumed they would end up exactly how I thought I wouldn't watch much!

walshb

In a nutshell Mayweather is way more impressive in not losing than he is in winning!

Bubolor

Raf32 wrote: »

The state of boxing at the moment. No surprise that the serial ducker wins a fight he should. Shame because it would have been some fight a few years back.

Boxing is quite good at the moment imo.

walshb

Bubolor wrote: »

I think Mayweather is beautiful to watch boxing.

Maybe elaborate? Is pot shotting and swipes and ducking to the canvas to defend really beautiful?

Andrew76

walshb wrote: »

I may need to watch it again, but were there really many quality right hands? Sure, he threw many, but how many landed clean and were of substance? This is my main issue with Floyd. The substance and effectiveness of his shots. I don't see it all that much. Listening to the commentary any flashy and snappy right lead thrown was being hailed as genius whether it landed or not. Similar to Pacman vs. Bradley in fight 1. HBO were ridiculous in their commentary analysis.

Genuinely interested in hearing your take on Manny's performance? I wanted Floyd to win from the outset and expected him to do only what was needed, but I was dissappointed with the lack of pressure from Pacquiao. Surely he knew Floyd would be elusive and he'd have to stay on him a lot. Not sure if that was all down to Mayweather, or Manny's alledged shoulder injury, or maybe his work rate isn't what it used to be? (I haven't seen his last few fights.)

Mellor

Bubolor wrote: »

I think Mayweather is beautiful to watch boxing.

I think you're pretending

Drumpot

Bubolor wrote: »

I think Mayweather is beautiful to watch boxing.

I understand some people enjoy his technique just like some people enjoy klitchkos. It's just not entertaining to the vast majority of sporting fans who aren't hardcore boxing fans.

Boxing fans might not care but it's a danger to the sport if many people find it boring. Everybody wants to watch Ali or Tyson fighters. As a non hardcore boxing fan I used to love the 90d Some great boxing.

Even the legendary berrera v morales fights were superb. I'm sure there's been plenty of other great boxing but the bigger question for boxing fans is do they want the sport to thrive or do they want defencive boxers who are technically superb but not entertaining to most, to lead the sport?

Chrissybhoy

Raf32 wrote: »

The state of boxing at the moment. No surprise that the serial ducker wins a fight he should. Shame because it would have been some fight a few years back.

Can you explain what exactly would be different

Talib Fiasco

If I wanna admire pure boxing brilliance I'll take Rigo and Lara over Floyd any day. Floyd of the last few years has an ugly, negative side in his style. The Floyd of old was a joy to watch and he still could do that if he so wishes but more luck to him, he hasn't needed to.

walshb

Andrew76 wrote: »

Genuinely interested in hearing your take on Manny's performance? I wanted Floyd to win from the outset and expected him to do only what was needed, but I was dissappointed with the lack of pressure from Pacquiao. Surely he knew Floyd would be elusive and he'd have to stay on him a lot. Not sure if that was all down to Mayweather, or Manny's alledged shoulder injury, or maybe his work rate isn't what it used to be? (I haven't seen his last few fights.)

In a nutshell Manny waited too long during most of the standoffs, allowing Floyd to jab or right cross and then move off. Now, many of the jabs and right crosses weren't really of substance, but they kept taking the play away from Manny. He wasn't letting the hands go enough, and that is because of what I thought, range and distance, and the possible fear of being heavily countered. Manny hasn't the best jab, but last night it wasn't all that bad, but he didn't use it near enough.

Overall I actually though Manny did better than I had expected. I thought Floyd could completely shut him down and hurt him. He didn't, and Manny defended quite well. His reaction times for a lot of the fight were excellent.

walshb

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

If I wanna admire pure boxing brilliance I'll take Rigo and Lara over Floyd any day. Floyd of the last few years has an ugly, negative side in his style. The Floyd of old was a joy to watch and he still could do that if he so wishes but more luck to him, he hasn't needed to.

Spot on. Lomachenko, for example, is for me a far more complete boxer. Far more. P4P I am not rating Floyd number 1. His offense is just not good enough to be considered the best. I'd put GGG and Ward as more complete too. Add in Kovalev!

I am not so sure that Floyd could be the Floyd of old. He is just not letting the hands go with the same fluidity as from years gone by. Very disjointed offense.

nacho libre

Manny is now blaming an injury for his loss. Perhaps that was God's real plan for him. A lot of fighters carry injuries into fights and keep quiet about it. Where is his well documented humility? Canelo accepted that Mayweather was just too good for him.
Pacman had a plan, but it didn't work, if he tried to alter his plan, as other suggest, he would have lost by an even wider margin.
I can see where others are coming from about Mayweather, they enjoy a good toe to toe bout, i enjoy a good old toe to toe, but i can also appreciate a boxing clinic being demonstrated, whereby the basic concept of boxing, hitting and not being hit, is displayed masterfully. I just hope Mayweather sticks to his word about packing it in and doesn't become another Roy Jones.

Talib Fiasco

walshb wrote: »

Spot on. Lomachenko, for example, is for me a far more complete boxer. Far more. P4P I am not rating Floyd number 1. His offense is just not good enough to be considered the best. I'd put GGG and Ward as more complete too. Add in Kovalev!

I am not so sure that Floyd could be the Floyd of old. He is just not letting the hands go with the same fluidity as from years gone by. Very disjointed offense.

Loma is a joy to watch...has it all. Ward too is a great pick. As soon as he returns I'll place him back at number 2 p4p along with Roman Gonzalez who I hope gets some decent exposure on his HBO debut. I still cannot take Floyd off number 1 but I am hoping September is his last fight.

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

I just hope Mayweather sticks to his word about packing it in and doesn't become another Roy Jones.

He never was a Roy Jones. And he never will be. Floyd will get out safe! Jones was always that bit better at peak.

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

I am not so sure that Floyd could be the Floyd of old. He is just not letting the hands go with the same fluidity as from years gone by. Very disjointed offense.

he still has wonderful head movement and leg speed- even if its not quite as good as it was, perhaps he's not letting his hands go as much because they are not 100 per cent at this stage of his career?

Andrew76

walshb wrote: »

In a nutshell Manny waited too long during most of the standoffs, allowing Floyd to jab or right cross and then move off. Now, many of the jabs and right crosses weren't really of substance, but they kept taking the play away from Manny. He wasn't letting the hands go enough, and that is because of what I thought, range and distance, and the possible fear of being heavily countered. Manny hasn't the best jab, but last night it wasn't all that bad, but he didn't use it near enough.

Overall I actually though Manny did better than I had expected. I thought Floyd could completely shut him down and hurt him. He didn't, and Manny defended quite well. His reaction times for a lot of the fight were excellent.

Cheers for that. I do find it frustrating Floyd doesn't show us what he really has (or had) in his locker, I get the impression he could have ended more fights earlier if he chose to.

Like a previous poster, I wouldn't be a hardcore fan myself and watched more fights during the 90's than these days, but would it be a fair to say Floyd has good deal in common with Pernell Whitaker? Sweat Pea was known for his focus of defense first?

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

He never was a Roy Jones. And he never will be. Floyd will get out safe! Jones was always that bit better at peak.

I hope so. I'm not convinced he is tired of boxing just yet, and he has previously gone back on his word. We'll have to agree to disagree on who was better.

titan18

Chrissybhoy wrote:

But it's anyone he faces now he makes them look ordinary and for that he should be given credit and manny isn't ordinary. I'd love to see him go really take it his foe in second half of the fight when he's comfortable he threatens to but then holds back and I said before maybe it's the trouble he's had with his hands last 8/9 years. All the crap on here he was running dodging over exaggerated noting about the quality right hands he landed with ease last night and I believe he hurt manny with them hence manny never let go he was afraid of them punches

Pacqiauo may not be ordinary but he ain't the fighter he was 3 - 4 years ago when Mayweather refused to fight him. Not like he'll fight him, but Mayweather doesn't make Golovkin look ordinary, and doubt he'd fight Canelo again as he continues to improve. He'll more than likely duck Thurman too and take a safe fight like Khan

Chrissybhoy

titan18 wrote: »

Pacqiauo may not be ordinary but he ain't the fighter he was 3 - 4 years ago when Mayweather refused to fight him. Not like he'll fight him, but Mayweather doesn't make Golovkin look ordinary, and doubt he'd fight Canelo again as he continues to improve. He'll more than likely duck Thurman too and take a safe fight like Khan

Same old same old

walshb

titan18 wrote: »

Pacqiauo may not be ordinary but he ain't the fighter he was 3 - 4 years ago when Mayweather refused to fight him. Not like he'll fight him, but Mayweather doesn't make Golovkin look ordinary, and doubt he'd fight Canelo again as he continues to improve. He'll more than likely duck Thurman too and take a safe fight like Khan

Khan is far from a safe fight IMO. Range and distance and size were always Manny's problems. Take them 3 away and you have Khan in there. Floyd sure could find a way to beat Khan, but right now I feel Khan is a very risky fight.

walshb

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

Talib Fiasco

walshb wrote: »

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

Khan won't fight in September due to Ramadan duties. Danny Garcia is a an obvious pick. Easy work for Floyd. Danny is slow and one dimensional, he's undefeated, young, kingpin of 140 and is a potential future PPV and p4p star. Either him or a Cotto rematch is the only fight out there I feel

Bubolor

Mayweather Brook would be interesting. I would have said they could unify all the belts but Mayweather is giving up his belts on Monday.

walshb

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Khan won't fight in September due to Ramadan duties. Danny Garcia is a an obvious pick. Easy work for Floyd. Danny is slow and one dimensional, he's undefeated, young, kingpin of 140 and is a potential future PPV and p4p star. Either him or a Cotto rematch is the only fight out there I feel

Khan expects Floyd to hang on till next May. Spanner. He doesn't deserve a sniff of the fight if he is thinking this.

Danny Garcia would be a mismatch I think. Floyd's 6 fight deal wasn't all that great for me.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Chrissybhoy

I'd like to see kell brook get the fight he's ahead of khan anyway

titan18

walshb wrote:

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

Won't fight him but Thurman. Young, up and coming, American. Too dangerous though IMO. Likewise a fight at 154 with Golovkin, and Crawford won't happen either. It's Khan, Garcia or a Cotton rematch, not one of whom will beat him.

Talib Fiasco

walshb wrote: »

Khan expects Floyd to hang on till next May. Spanner. He doesn't deserve a sniff of the fight if he is thinking this.

Danny Garcia would be a mismatch I think. Floyd's 6 fight deal wasn't all that great for me.

Yep Khan got too big headed...wouldn't surprise me if Brook ignores a fight him now. He may well do so if the Floyd vacates and someone like Maidana ends up with a belt.

Yeah Floyd would hammer Garcia. That's why I think it'll happen. Danny can no longer make 140 any more and let's face it he's hanging onto his 0 for dear life...he might as well cash out on it against the best man to give him a massive pay day.

Talib Fiasco

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

I'd like to see kell brook get the fight he's ahead of khan anyway

I think Brook will fight Marquez after Gavin and then Bradley or Rios if he beats Marquez. Brook isn't big enough for Floyd for his last fight.

Strongbow10

walshb wrote: »

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

He will surely fight Cotto again and retire calling himself the lineal middleweight champ.

Oh and at a catch weight of course. The narrative was set last night after the first round. When it was apparent Manny wasn't making it his kind of fight the plaudits started flooding his way, there was nothing Manny could do to counteract this brilliance, he couldn't launch his offence as he would like etc.....

When it became Mayweathers kind of fight there was only going to be one winner even though Manny didn't do badly or indeed take any punishment either. Mayweather clearly won the fight but I do think his reputation means he wins a lot of rounds simply by making the other fighter miss regularly.

As you pointed out earlier, it's hard to have him down as one of the greatest of all time with such a limited offence in the last 5-10 years.

Sky were hilarious, I think the memo was to drill it home to the casual fans that this was one of the greatest performances they would ever see, if Manny had come any near fighting his fight they would have lauded him as an offensive genius.

Froch took the biscuit, seemed mesmerised that you can actually avoid getting hit, he was dismissive of Andre Ward for seemingly not wanting to get hit, it wasn't boxing I believe he said . He certainly changed his tune .

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

I'd be shocked if it's not Danny Garcia. An extremely easy fight for Floyd, and very easy fight to sell to the casual (undefeated 140 lb champion etc). Not so much to the hardcore fns, but who cares about them....those suckers will buy anyway !

Personally I'd much rather Khan or Brook. I''d love Golovkin or Lara, but those fights will never happen even if Floyd was to sign another 6 fight deal.


Brook will most likely face Bam Bam Rios after he destroys Gavin.


Edit: actually Cotto fight has a reasonable chance too, but I'd say 70% Danny, 25% Cotto, 5% someone else.
With that said I think Geale might put a spoiler on the Cotto fight happening.

MisterAnarchy

Raf32 wrote: »

The state of boxing at the moment. No surprise that the serial ducker wins a fight he should. Shame because it would have been some fight a few years back.

The last 3 PPV's I have seen have really dented my belief in modern boxing.
Haye vs that giant guy Valuev ,Haye vs Klitschko and the fight last night.
3 awful fights ,with hardly a meaningful punch landed and guys coming out without a scratch.

Chris Eubank was on tv during the week reminiscing about his old fights ,that man and Nigel Benn could box and their fights were always interesting.

walshb

I watched Sky's recap of the fight through highlight rds. Jeez, the offense they showed from Floyd was paltry. Usually when they pick the highlights you see clean and clear landed shots. Very few in the highlighted rds they showed. No wonder Manny came out without a scratch, and thinking he won. A lot of boxers in close fights say they won, and some in even fights that they got hammered in. Manny saying he won last night is not at all surprising or lacking in sportsmanship.

Bubolor

Strongbow10 wrote: »

He will surely fight Cotto again and retire calling himself the lineal middleweight champ.

Oh and at a catch weight of course. The narrative was set last night after the first round. When it was apparent Manny wasn't making it his kind of fight the plaudits started flooding his way, there was nothing Manny could do to counteract this brilliance, he couldn't launch his offence as he would like etc.....

When it became Mayweathers kind of fight there was only going to be one winner even though Manny didn't do badly or indeed take any punishment either. Mayweather clearly won the fight but I do think his reputation means he wins a lot of rounds simply by making the other fighter miss regularly.

As you pointed out earlier, it's hard to have him down as one of the greatest of all time with such a limited offence in the last 5-10 years.

Sky were hilarious, I think the memo was to drill it home to the casual fans that this was one of the greatest performances they would ever see, if Manny had come any near fighting his fight they would have lauded him as an offensive genius.

Froch took the biscuit, seemed mesmerised that you can actually avoid getting hit, he was dismissive of Andre Ward for seemingly not wanting to get hit, it wasn't boxing I believe he said . He certainly changed his tune .

What were Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard doing at 38? Being destroyed. Mayweather is an all time great, what he has done throughout his entire career merits his place in the history books.

walshb

Bubolor wrote: »

What were Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard doing at 38? Being destroyed. Mayweather is an all time great, what he has done throughout his entire career merits his place in the history books.

Sorry, that is a ridiculous analogy to make.

Bubolor

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, that is a ridiculous analogy to make.

People are basing their opinion of how good Mayweather will be regarded in the history books based on performances in his late thirties, that's ridiculous. Mayweather in his prime was sublime defensively and offensively.

Chrissybhoy

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I think Brook will fight Marquez after Gavin and then Bradley or Rios if he beats Marquez. Brook isn't big enough for Floyd for his last fight.

That's true. I think Brook beats all of the above too

Talib Fiasco

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

That's true. I think Brook beats all of the above too

I think he could probably outbox Marquez cleverly but himself and Bradley would be a very very good fight. Very tough one to call. I think Bradders is a shadow of the man before he fought Ruslan, really think it took a lot of out of him physically and mentally but he's still the best WW not named Floyd or Manny in my eyes until a fight with Brook. I read somewhere this morning that someone expects Gavin to beat Brook. I will never watch Boxing again if that happens.

MisterAnarchy

Filipino Manny Pacquiao said a shoulder injury hampered his bid to hand Floyd Mayweather a first ever defeat as a professional .

Pacquiao, suffered the injury during a sparring session, according to his trainer Freddie Roach.

"In the third round, I felt pain in the shoulder," eight-division world champion Pacquiao told reporters after dropping to 57-6-2. "We didn't throw a lot of combinations because it hurt."

"The thing is, what we wanted to do we could not do because of my (right) shoulder."

Roach said the injury occurred after Pacquiao collided with another fighter during sparring and their arms got entangled.

An MRI exam subsequently revealed a tear in the Filipino southpaw's right shoulder, though Roach said the boxer had since made good progress and he felt that he could still compete in the ring.

bur

Not the same Manny that destroyed Hatton, DLH, Cotto, Margarito. All I came away from that fight thinking is it should have happened five years ago, or at the very least before the brutal KO by JMM.
Mayweather proved his brilliance again but he missed his chance here of having a career defining fight, and that will be a mark against him when talking about all time greats and the best ever.

rebelomar

A lot of posters really p###ed off with Floyd's win.

Enjoyed his performance myself and thought it was fairly conclusive on the night. Didn't think he ran anyway near as much as some suggest. He held the centre of the ring for large portions of the fight.

Manny didn't hold the look of a winner with his body language throughout and after the final bell. Looked resigned to defeat in my eyes anyday and I genuinely was stunned as were Sky, HBO and Showtime it seemed with his reaction afterwards

Gandalph

What was the quote from the guy at the start about Floyd and IQ? Something along the lines of having the equivalent of a Mensa boxing IQ level, couldn't really make it out what he said.

menoscemo

Mellor wrote: »

Mayweather won, I said after the final bell that 115-113 is the best Manny can hope for. So 116-112 is about right from two if the judges.

But 118-110 was a ridiculous score.

I had it 118-111. I gave Manny the 4th and the 8th and a share of the 3rd and I put a Q mark at the 3rd to say if pushed I'd have given that to Mayweather too. I can see you could argue Pacman won 4 rounds but no more than that. The punch stats prove that IMO.

Anyway moving on; yes it was a boring fight in the grand scheme of things. Not the worst fight but it did not live up to the hype. It's pretty much how I expected it to turn out hence why I put a lump on for Floyd to win by points. I wasn't expecting any kind of barnstormer to be honest and if there was going to be one it was up to Pacman to make it that way like Maidana did. There is no point hating on Floyd about it.

Henno30

Dick phelan wrote: »

How was that a masterclass? Don't get me wrong Floyd won but i don't consider holding to be a master tactic, I also had it closer then 118-110, You don't win rounds just running and jabbing.

A masterclass would have looked like Floyd-Marquez. It was far from that.

Floyd did what he usually did, enough but no more than that. Hence the tidal wave of negativity from the wider sporting public this morning.

I hope they both retire by christmas and the sport can move on. All due respect to Floyd, he's a terrible ambassador for the sport. His fights bore people to death and that will never change. Does't matter how good he is at what he does - what he does is something that people find painfully dull.

myshirt

I think the remuneration for these fights needs to be restructured. There was no incentive to get in there and fight, and I think the majority of the boxer's payment does needs to be incentive based.

Something along the lines of decent base level pay, but an extra 20% bonus for the winner, and a flat fee for a knockout. Not like MMA, but certainly there needs to be a split in how these guys are paid, to weight it in favour of performance based pay. These boys got the exact same money regardless of how this fight went. Didn't matter who won or how. Payment was same.

I was depending on Pacquaio getting in there and doing better, as he's a man of integrity and humility. But we can't rely on all boxers integrity or personal pride to drive honest boxing, it needs to be incentive based.

Big Ears

myshirt wrote: »

I think the remuneration for these fights needs to be restructured. There was no incentive to get in there and fight, and I think the majority of the boxer's payment does needs to be incentive based.

Something along the lines of decent base level pay, but an extra 20% bonus for the winner, and a flat fee for a knockout. Not like MMA, but certainly there needs to be a split in how these guys are paid, to weight it in favour of performance based pay. These boys got the exact same money regardless of how this fight went. Didn't matter who won or how. Payment was same.

The payment they received was based on their success of their whole career. All the 10-12 week training camps (which they don't get paid for), all the hours in the gym which between fights (which they don't get paid for). That's what meant people were willing to pay big money for ppv, and crazy money for fight tickets.

They deserved the money regardless of how they performed on the night.
Restructuring how fighters are paid in boxing as a whole would be extremely difficult, likely result in more money going to those who need it less (promoters and broadcasters), and just generally be unworkable.

The fight may not have been one for the ages, but both fighters are getting paid their market value, and that surely can only be viewed as fair.

Henno30

myshirt wrote: »

I think the remuneration for these fights needs to be restructured. There was no incentive to get in there and fight, and I think the majority of the boxer's payment does needs to be incentive based.

Something along the lines of decent base level pay, but an extra 20% bonus for the winner, and a flat fee for a knockout. Not like MMA, but certainly there needs to be a split in how these guys are paid, to weight it in favour of performance based pay. These boys got the exact same money regardless of how this fight went. Didn't matter who won or how. Payment was same.

I was depending on Pacquaio getting in there and doing better, as he's a man of integrity and humility. But we can't rely on all boxers integrity or personal pride to drive honest boxing, it needs to be incentive based.

And who's going to dictate that

That's not boxing. This sport is the wild west, the market at it's unrestrained worst. Everything in boxing is about power, and power in boxing resides not in governing bodies but in dollars. As Tyrion Lannister said, if you want justice you've come to the wrong place.

And while it might seem to the infrequent watcher that the sport is going to die if it doesn't change, it won't. The sport has always survived despite its flaws and it always will.

willmunny1990

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

If I wanna admire pure boxing brilliance I'll take Rigo and Lara over Floyd any day. Floyd of the last few years has an ugly, negative side in his style. The Floyd of old was a joy to watch and he still could do that if he so wishes but more luck to him, he hasn't needed to.

Hes the Mourinho of boxing it seems.

Not easy on the eye but gets results.