[Superthread] Mayweather vs Pacman **NO STREAMING REQUESTS**

fryup

they don't even show clips of it on the news

will this ever be shown on terrestrial TV?

EazyD

rebelomar wrote: »

Amazed by the lack of respect Floyd has gotten after the fight. I genuinely feel people both fans and people in the game wanted Pacman to win so badly that it has seriously clouded their judgement.

I respect his intelligence. Everything else about the guy is impossible to like, Manny fan or not.

menoscemo

Mellor wrote: »

I haven't seen rd by rd puching stats yet. Have they been released?
If not that the overall punching stats are meaningless in terms of scoring rounds.

Yeah posted earlier in this thread. According to this pacquiao only won the 4th

Where do you see the scorecards btw?

Mellor

menoscemo wrote: »

Where do you see the scorecards btw?

Seen it on an MMA site yesterday. A few sites published it at this stage.

Henno30

Please don't use 'punch stats' as some gauge of what happened in a fight. They are wildly inaccurate and are a gimmick that exist purely for tv broadcast. While you can place some faith in the total punch output number, the so-called 'connect percentage' bears no resemblance to reality whatsoever.

Henno30

The shoulder injury thing is apparently legit, Manny's sparring partners have backed the story up:






I don't really care though. I just want both of these guys to go so we can all move on. They got their gigantic pay day after five years of pricking around. That's enough for them.

Talib Fiasco

Henno30 wrote: »

Please don't use 'punch stats' as some gauge of what happened in a fight. They are wildly inaccurate and are a gimmick that exist purely for tv broadcast. While you can place some faith in the total punch output number, the so-called 'connect percentage' bears no resemblance to reality whatsoever.

And even at that they never tell the full story...aint that right Castillo-Mayweather 1...oh wait

T-K-O

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

spent all day hiding from the result.

found a good long highlight reel on youtube,

one with none of the usual visit a link and download a virus in Russian and a thing that doesn't work bullsht.

good as the real thing, didn't cost 100 dollars, didnt have to stay up til 5am. All I had to do was hid under the bed all day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm4Z8imdxek

Nah, as soon an you youtube a fight the results pops up. I have tried and failed many times.

T-K-O

Henno30 wrote: »

A masterclass would have looked like Floyd-Marquez. It was far from that.

Floyd did what he usually did, enough but no more than that. Hence the tidal wave of negativity from the wider sporting public this morning.

I hope they both retire by christmas and the sport can move on. All due respect to Floyd, he's a terrible ambassador for the sport. His fights bore people to death and that will never change. Does't matter how good he is at what he does - what he does is something that people find painfully dull.

It was a masterclass alright, a financial masterclass.

I too hope they both retire and have zero interest in PBF's Sept bout.

Talib Fiasco

I'll only stay up to watch it if he's against Golovkin, Khan or Lara. They're the only three left with a chance of beating him. I do hope they put effort into the undercard this time. Due to the fact there will be none of the bullsh*t over the Manny/Mayweather fight which put all hopes of a structured undercard on the complete back burner, they could easily get a stacked card for his last fight. Would love to Wilder on the card, as well as lads like Gary Russell Jr, Beterbiev and Andre Dirrell.

Panic E

Bit of controversy where the NAC denied him the anti inflammatories he was getting just before the fight. (Pacquiao's shoulder)

Henno30

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

And even at that they never tell the full story...aint that right Castillo-Mayweather 1...oh wait

I thought it was amusing to see Floyd's fans freaking out over Manny's injured shoulder, when it's the exact same excuse they've used for the Castillo fight for years.

Panic E

Who would like to see a rematch? I doubt Floyd would agree to it though

Henno30

Panic E wrote: »

Who would like to see a rematch? I doubt Floyd would agree to it though

I wouldn't. But who could be that surprised if they tried it? This is boxing.

The biggest obstacle isn't the fact that the other night was a stinkfest, although that's clearly an obstacle. The biggest obstacle is that the principle negotiators all hate each other. Getting a deal done would be a nightmare.

Panic E

Henno30 wrote: »

I wouldn't. But who could be that surprised if they tried it? This is boxing.

The biggest obstacle isn't the fact that the other night was a stinkfest, although that's clearly an obstacle. The biggest obstacle is that the principle negotiators all hate each other. Getting a deal done would be a nightmare.

Well the principle obstacle would likely be Floyd as he is the one who was avoiding the matchup all along.

He dodged that question at the press conference. I for one would like to see it again, why not. So many questions.

It says a lot when the winner was boo'ed out of the arena. "It was brilliant stinking performance" as Larry Merchant said

Henno30

Panic E wrote: »

Well the principle obstacle would likely be Floyd as he is the one who was avoiding the matchup all along.

He dodged that question at the press conference. I for one would like to see it again, why not. So many questions.

It says a lot when the winner was boo'ed out of the arena. "It was brilliant stinking performance" as Larry Merchant said

Floyd has always stank the place out. The Oscar fight was a stinkfest. The Hatton fight was even worse but Floyd managed to stop him.

Big Ears

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

And even at that they never tell the full story...aint that right Castillo-Mayweather 1...oh wait

Well it is true actually. From the stats saying Castillo threw more punches, landed more punches and had a higher connect % you can tell he outworked Mayweather.
What it doesn't tell you is he also outfoxed and outfought him too :pac:

Panic E

Henno30 wrote: »

Floyd has always stank the place out. The Oscar fight was a stinkfest. The Hatton fight was even worse but Floyd managed to stop him.

I know that. Not the first time he's been boo'ed out either.

"Let's do it again" would have been the sporting thing to say

cowzerp

Floyd won 10 rounds, 9 if your being very generous to Manny

Talib Fiasco

cowzerp wrote: »

Floyd won 10 rounds, 9 if your being very generous to Manny

I think you're the one being generous...extremely generous to Floyd. 118-110 was a disgraceful score.

Panic E

cowzerp wrote: »

Floyd won 10 rounds, 9 if your being very generous to Manny

What did he do though really, land some jabs and the occasional potshot while retreating from a smaller man for 12 rounds.

I didn't see any clear winner in a lot of those rounds. It's almost as if Mayweather won the fight just by virtue of not losing it.

Big Ears

Panic E wrote: »

What did he do though really, land some jabs and the occasional potshot while retreating from a smaller man for 12 rounds.

I didn't see any clear winner in a lot of those rounds. It's almost as if Mayweather won the fight just by virtue of not losing it.

He won by landing more punches than Pacquiao. he mightn't have landed a huge amount, and he may not have landed with much authority, but he landed more than enough to win.

Kev M

It was a dominant performance from Floyd. 9-3 at a push for me. Manny was a live opponent throughout right up til the final bell - but this is boxing, if you want to see a brawl then go sit around temple bar at the weekend.

The amount of hate Mayweather is getting online right now is truly disturbing. I've followed nearly his entire pro career, and to read some of the nonsense that's being posted...

What happened in the fight was what was always going to happen. The only way it could have lived up to the casual fans' hype was for a bomb to go off in the arena.

Henno30

Kev M wrote: »

It was a dominant performance from Floyd. 9-3 at a push for me. Manny was a live opponent throughout right up til the final bell - but this is boxing, if you want to see a brawl then go sit around temple bar at the weekend.

Yes, there's no middle ground between a fight in Temple Bar and a Mayweather fight. None.

Big Ears

Henno30 wrote: »

Yes, there's no middle ground between a fight in Temple Bar and a Mayweather fight. None.

While there obviously is a large middle ground between them, the casual fan is summed up by what happens when a fight breaks out in the crowd at a boxing fight. You can have World Class fighters, fighting an absolute war, it going ebb and flow between them and yet large segments of the crowd will stop looking at the action in the ring (which they've actually paid for) to watch 2 coked up geezers in the crowd who have no idea how to fight swinging at each other.

I understand it when people think it might spill over and their own safety may be comprised. But otherwise it just seems one of the most illogical things there is.

Big Ears

Big Ears wrote: »

While there obviously is a large middle ground between them, the casual fan is summed up by what happens when a fight breaks out in the crowd at a boxing fight. You can have World Class fighters, fighting an absolute war, it going ebb and flow between them and yet large segments of the crowd will stop looking at the action in the ring (which they've actually paid for) to watch 2 coked up geezers in the crowd who have no idea how to fight swinging at each other.

I understand it when people think it might spill over and their own safety may be comprised. But otherwise it just seems one of the most illogical things there is.

quite an ignorant comment in my opinion but there seems to be a lot of "if you dont think mayweather is a genius you dont know what your talking about" going around.

may weather won the fight by the rules thats all he can do and as a defensive boxer its hard to argue with his skill. the difference between him and the great defensive boxers is that the likes of ali and sugar ray sought to use there defensive skills to boost there offensive game whereas may weather seems content to sit back and get points this never has and never will ingratiate him to casual fans or indeed a lot of older boxing fans.

furthermore the claim that this is boxing and not brawling is just silly. boxing since the very beginning has been about punishing the other fighter the points system was brought in so that a winner could be declared when both men are judged even so neither could manage a knockout. mayweather is effectively exploiting a loophole in boxing and it does not make it an "art" it does not mean "true boxing fans" can get high and mighty about it, all it does is further damage a sport that really really needed a fight (or series of fights) that would reinvigorate the sport (as magic and bird did for basketball)

boxing needs to find a way to engage young fans and what happened at the weekend is not the way to do it

Mexican Coke

Mexican Coke wrote: »

Mayweather's offensive output has reduced since he entered his mid 30's, he was more offensive in his prime. What was Muhammad Ali doing at 38, oh yea, getting knocked the fukc out.

sure it has but that does not mean what he's doing is "art" or "genius" he's fighting and he's winning but its not fun to watch and its not what boxing is about as people are claiming.

Panic E

A selection of Mayweather's dirty tactics from the weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8mFeKQafto

It doesn't even include the main ones- running & hugging.

walshb

Don't forget this on Saturday.

http://www.sho.com/sho/movies/titles/3419995/inside-mayweather-vs-pacquiao---epilogue#/index

The epilogues are usually the best episodes.

Deiseboy01

Someone posted that Manny needs surgery on a rotator.

I know there must have been huge pressures on Manny to fight the other night, possibly including financial penalties, but if he turned up badly injured he's effectively cheated the fans and has gone down a lot on my estimation.

Deiseboy01

Someone posted that Manny needs surgery on a rotator.

I know there must have been huge pressures on Manny to fight the other night, possibly including financial penalties, but if he turned up badly injured he's effectively cheated the fans and has gone down a lot on my estimation.

Halloween Jack

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Someone posted that Manny needs surgery on a rotator.

I know there must have been huge pressures on Manny to fight the other night, possibly including financial penalties, but if he turned up badly injured he's effectively cheated the fans and has gone down a lot on my estimation.

Don't know what's gone on there tbh, he didn't disclose the injury before the fight and may be fined for that reason, but was looking for a TUE for painkillers, sounds like a clerical error by whoever filled out the form.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Panic E

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Someone posted that Manny needs surgery on a rotator.

Yeah, it's looking like he will be out for up to a year. Doesn't look like there will be a rematch in September now.

He was getting anti inflammatory shots (approved by USADA) beforehand but was denied them on the night it seems.

RoryMac

Panic E wrote: »

Yeah, it's looking like he will be out for up to a year. Doesn't look like there will be a rematch in September now.

He was getting anti inflammatory shots (approved by USADA) beforehand but was denied them on the night it seems.

I doubt the public would've had the appetite for a rematch

efb

Panic E wrote: »

What did he do though really, land some jabs and the occasional potshot while retreating from a smaller man for 12 rounds.

I didn't see any clear winner in a lot of those rounds. It's almost as if Mayweather won the fight just by virtue of not losing it.

That's how you win, hit and avoid being hit- it's not rocket science

Panic E

RoryMac wrote: »

I doubt the public would've had the appetite for a rematch

I don't think the bandwagoners would but it would still do bigger numbers than any other fight.

Plenty of people calling for one. Ironically it's main selling point is the same thing that rules it out.

walshb

efb wrote: »

That's how you win, hit and avoid being hit- it's not rocket science

Come on. Surely we can hope for an expect a little more from the supposed best on earth? I agree, he won by not losing. He didn't win the fight in any convincing manner. This whole "hit and not get hit" has been used too much concerning Floyd. Manny hit Floyd on Floyd's body every bit as much as Floyd hit Manny.

You follow boxing a lot. Was what you saw impressive? The bigger man, the real WW eking out a weak offensive display against the smaller and less strong man?

As a Floyd fan in his prime I think he has become next to unwatchable. It's more desperation and OTT defense than boxing and winning and seizing. He is getting lauded for it when he shouldn't be. He should be called on it for what it is.

Maidana said it, Guerrero said it about him running away. He promised us a toe to toe masterclass vs. Guerrero and we didn't get it. Against Maidana he fouled every chance he got and failed to out on any effective hurt or offense on Maidana. Hell, Broner did as well at times.

efb

walshb wrote: »

Come on. Surely we can hope for an expect a little more from the supposed best on earth? I agree, he won by not losing. He didn't win the fight in any convincing manner. This whole "hit and not get hit" has been used too much concerning Floyd. Manny hit Floyd on Floyd's body every bit as much as Floyd hit Manny.

You follow boxing a lot. Was what you saw impressive? The bigger man, the real WW eking out a weak offensive display against the smaller and less strong man?

As a Floyd fan in his prime I think he has become next to unwatchable. It's more desperation and OTT defense than boxing and winning and seizing. He is getting lauded for it when he shouldn't be. He should be called on it for what it is.

Maidana said it, Guerrero said it about him running away. He promised us a toe to toe masterclass vs. Guerrero and we didn't get it. Against Maidana he fouled every chance he got and failed to out on any effective hurt or offense on Maidana. Hell, Broner did as well at times.

Seriously when I go into judging mode it's just that - I don't look for thinks that don't count.

I knew that fight would pan out pretty much the way it did- I expected Manny to be more offensive- he wasn't so Floyd didn't have to do as much

Mister Vain

walshb wrote: »

Come on. Surely we can hope for an expect a little more from the supposed best on earth? I agree, he won by not losing. He didn't win the fight in any convincing manner. This whole "hit and not get hit" has been used too much concerning Floyd. Manny hit Floyd on Floyd's body every bit as much as Floyd hit Manny.

Make em miss, make em pay. Yes Floyd's style may not be the most exciting to watch, but he was the better boxer on the night and deserved to win. Although watching MayPac made me want to watch the first Maidana fight again as that was entertaining.

Halloween Jack

walshb wrote: »

Come on. Surely we can hope for an expect a little more from the supposed best on earth? I agree, he won by not losing. He didn't win the fight in any convincing manner. This whole "hit and not get hit" has been used too much concerning Floyd. Manny hit Floyd on Floyd's body every bit as much as Floyd hit Manny.

You follow boxing a lot. Was what you saw impressive? The bigger man, the real WW eking out a weak offensive display against the smaller and less strong man?

As a Floyd fan in his prime I think he has become next to unwatchable. It's more desperation and OTT defense than boxing and winning and seizing. He is getting lauded for it when he shouldn't be. He should be called on it for what it is.

Maidana said it, Guerrero said it about him running away. He promised us a toe to toe masterclass vs. Guerrero and we didn't get it. Against Maidana he fouled every chance he got and failed to out on any effective hurt or offense on Maidana. Hell, Broner did as well at times.

I don't understand how the accusation of 'running away' is anyway valid whatsoever. Surely if your opponent is doing that and you are good enough you can cut off the ring/trap him on tbe ropes etc.

If you can't you're effectively criticising your opponent for being clever enough not to fight exactly the type of fight you wanted to fight.

It's like arsene wenger or somebody criticising Stoke for playing defensively, to their strengths rather than try and play open free flowing football which wouldn't suit them at all.

I do agree in a sense with the idea that if mayweather really cared about his legacy or the fans he should be more aggressive, but he probably and legitimately sees his only job as winning fights, which he does in a way that is very effective

walshb

Mister Vain wrote: »

Make em miss, make em pay. Yes Floyd's style may not be the most exciting to watch, but he was the better boxer on the night and deserved to win. Although watching MayPac made me want to watch the first Maidana fight again as that was entertaining.

That's just it, he wasn't making him pay. I wouldn't laud him for that.

Panic E

efb wrote: »

That's how you win, hit and avoid being hit- it's not rocket science

I'm just curious as to which out of those 2 categories this stuff falls under?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAOlGOGWJA4

walshb

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I don't understand how the accusation of 'running away' is anyway valid whatsoever. Surely if your opponent is doing that and you are good enough you can cut off the ring/trap him on tbe ropes etc.

If you can't you're effectively criticising your opponent for being clever enough not to fight exactly the type of fight you wanted to fight.

It's like arsene wenger or somebody criticising Stoke for playing defensively, to their strengths rather than try and play open free flowing football which wouldn't suit them at all.

I do agree in a sense with the idea that if mayweather really cared about his legacy or the fans he should be more aggressive, but he probably and legitimately sees his only job as winning fights, which he does in a way that is very effective

No issue with any boxer moving and winning. Pea Whitaker could do it and you would watch him all night, because it was honest and sincere and very offensive as well. Mayweather used to be a whole lot better at being offensively defensive. He has not shown that recently.

Panic E

walshb wrote: »

Anyway, I was just very displeased at both men really, and astonished at some of the OTT praise for Floyd.

x2

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

No rule changing. If Floyd's getting praised and scored for his weak and paltry offense (as well as getting lauded for dodging punches by whatever means) then Manny should get the same praise and points for his weak and paltry offense, as well as his blocking and dodging shots by Floyd. No real mention at all about Manny's defense. But anytime Floyd managed to wiggle out of trouble people were in awe.

In a nutshell Floyd was getting scored for two areas. Defense and offense. Manny was only being scored for offense. That's what I sawy. That is wrong.

Walshb I'd be interested to see how you scored the fight on a rbr basis.

RoryMac

walshb wrote: »

Manny does not all fight like Maidana.

Anyway, I was just very displeased at both men really, and astonished at some of the OTT praise for Floyd. He was far from great in there. He won a close and dull fight. Compu box only tells half the story. Floyd fans seem incapable of criticizing him. Apart from some. I am one of them.

You could say the same for the Manny fans, there has been no criticism of Manny's performance that I've seen. Manny was a no-show on Saturday so as dull as Mayweather's performance was(and it was) the biggest factor in the fight not living up to billing was the lack of fight from Manny.

The only real hope that the fight lived up to the billing was if Manny got off to a good start and got a few rounds in front forcing Mayweather to chase the fight.

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

Walshb I'd be interested to see how you scored the fight on a rbr basis.

I'd nearly have to watch it again. I could have "two" scores, the fight as a whole and rd for rd basis. Some rds could have gone either way depending on what you like.

As a whole fight it was a toss up for me, and hence why Manny's surprised look at the end didn't surprise me. There was just far too much non scoring moments. Very very few clear and impacting scoring moments. Should Manny get credit for pressing the fight when the fight was not delivering much?

Should Floyd get credit and scores for throwing out tag like jabs and single rights that mainly didn't connect when the action was stagnant? Should Manny get points and credit for the many times he trapped Floyd and was forced to hit down and down as Floyd hugged the floor and hugged Manny's hips?

This is the confusion. I have no issue with it, but what I don't get is how fans (and some knowledgeable posters) come on and make out that they witnessed brilliance and a masterclass. What fooking matserclass?

What I felt was that Floyd was getting scored and praised in all areas in the ring. Manny was not. It was all about Manny's offense, and if that didn't deliver then he has to be a loser?

Halloween Jack

walshb wrote: »

No issue with any boxer moving and winning. Pea Whitaker could do it and you would watch him all night, because it was honest and sincere and very offensive as well. Mayweather used to be a whole lot better at being offensively defensive. He has not shown that recently.

Whittaker is a little before my time, what was the main difference in styles, or to phrase differently, what would you want to see more of from floyd in these big big fights?

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

I'd nearly have to watch it again. I could have "two" scores, the fight as a whole and rd for rd basis. Some rds could have gone either way depending on what you like.

As a whole fight it was a toss up for me, and hence why Manny's surprised look at the end didn't surprise me. There was just far too much non scoring moments. Very very few clear and impacting scoring moments. Should Manny get credit for pressing the fight when the fight was not delivering much?

Should Floyd get credit and scores for throwing out tag like jabs and single rights that mainly didn't connect when the action was stagnant? Should Manny get points and credit for the many times he trapped Floyd and was forced to hit down and down as Floyd hugged the floor and hugged Manny's hips?

This is the confusion. I have no issue with it, but what I don't get is how fans (and some knowledgeable posters) come on and make out that they witnessed brilliance and a masterclass. What fooking matserclass?

What I felt was that Floyd was getting scored and praised in all areas in the ring. Manny was not. It was all about Manny's offense, and if that didn't deliver then he has to be a loser?

and that's what I'm getting at really. You know aswell as I do, boxing is judged one way and that's round by round. I can definitely see how judging the fight as a whole it appears it could have gone either way, because Manny's big moments (particularly the 4th and 6th round) were far more memorable than anything else that happened in the fight. But scored on a rd by round basis, this simply wasn't that close a bout.

Defensively it was a brilliant display in nullifying Pacquiao's attack (by whatever means necessary), but you are completely right that, that was no offensive masterclass. Offensively it was actually a very poor display, but he nullified Pacquiao so much with his defensive that it really didn't take much in offensive output to take the fight.