[Superthread] Mayweather vs Pacman **NO STREAMING REQUESTS**

HigginsJ

T-K-O wrote: »

Not entirely true, guys like Khan get absolutely slatted for holding and pot shotting but when the best of all time does it, it's a masterclass. The media and floyds attitude is just a little too much to stomach.

The whole thing is wearisome at this point. My point is just that the video shows nothing really bad that you won't see in a lot of fights.

Panic E

So you are defending that catalogue of fouls above? According to Manny, he felt Floyd knew he was injured.

The holding has already been addressed, also the running. Has anyone watched the fight back in slo-mo???

T-K-O

HigginsJ wrote: »

The whole thing is wearisome at this point. My point is just that the video shows nothing really bad that you won't see in a lot of fights.

Agreed, my point is, it's bad depending on who is holding and who is watching.

If it's good enough for PBF it's good enough for Khan

HigginsJ

T-K-O wrote: »

Agreed, my point is, it's bad depending on who is holding and who is watching.

If it's good enough for PBF it's good enough for Khan

That's fair enough

HigginsJ

Panic E wrote: »

So you are defending that catalogue of fouls above? According to Manny, he felt Floyd knew he was injured.

The 'running' has already been addressed pretty much. As for not much to the holding, well there is this;

Slickly edited I will say, just seen it now. It counts 18 hold's, I'd imagine it was more. One a minute basically.

It also alludes to a conspiracy with the judging cards, I dunno. Has anyone watched the fight back slo-mo yet?

I'm not defending them, it's just they happen in fights every week & barely get a mention. 18 holds would be one every 2 minutes, or out another way, 3 every 2 rounds, which is hardly excessive I'd imagine.

Why would anyone be that bothered to watch the whole thing back in slo-mo? It's a bit tin-foil hat behaviour for my liking.

Henno30

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'm not defending them, it's just they happen in fights every week & barely get a mention. 18 holds would be one every 2 minutes, or out another way, 3 every 2 rounds, which is hardly excessive I'd imagine.

It is if the opponent only gets him on the ropes once every two minutes.

I say that as a general point rather than a comment about Floyd and Manny.

Panic E

My point is (now) Floyd is a dirty fighter and tactician, no sportsmanship whatsoever and he gets lauded for it

He had a hundred different advantages going into the fight and still utilized nearly every foul in the book to 'win'

It wasn't a convincing win either, which is why he was boo'd out of the place and everywhere else (including here)

HigginsJ wrote: »

Why would anyone be that bothered to watch the whole thing back in slo-mo?

To score the fight for yourself? To see how many punches were landed? How many were blocked? How many were missed?

How many were grazing shots etc, etc. Thats what fans do, it's not a new thing. I don't think people are looking for aliens.

Yeah but all that stuff is fouls. Points are supposed to be deducted for them, I don't see why you are trying to minimize that.

walshb

Panic E wrote: »

To score the fight for yourself? To see how many punches were landed? How many were blocked? How many were missed?

How many were grazing shots etc, etc. Thats what fans do, it's not a new thing. I don't think people are looking for aliens.

Yeah but all that stuff is fouls. Points are supposed to be deducted for them, I don't see why you are trying to minimize that.

This is what I want to know. People here seem so clear that all these shots were effective landed shots from Floyd. I saw very little. The compu box numbers are extremely misleading. Neither man landed consistently or effectively through the whole fight yet people are so clear that Floyd easily won? Well, Holyfield isn't. I am not, and some here are not. Sky TV spent more time praising Floyd's evasiveness than his offense, and when he did attack and throw they didn't care too much how effective it was. He was cheered.

I am not anti Floyd here. I am anti bias and anti OTT favoring one man and awarding one man OTT credit for insignificant happenings. I'll award them both the same credit for their not getting hit. Nobody else is. I will award them both the same credit for the amount of shots thrown, which is very close.

Now, the final issue is landed and effective shots. According to compu box landed shot, which for all we know could have been the same idiots like Watt and Rawling and Froch, Floyd put on a landslide win. The viewing I had live on the night did not at all reflect this.

HigginsJ

Panic E wrote: »

It wasn't a convincing win either, which is why he was boo'd out of the place and everywhere else (including here)

Yeah but all that stuff is fouls. Points are supposed to be deducted for them, I don't see why you are trying to minimize that.

I would say he was boo'd because he is not a nice person & he didn't deliver a stand toe-to-toe fight that casual fans wanted.

You would get points deduction for persistent fouling, like I say there was nothing excessive that doesn't happen every week. Guys don't get points deducted for a few holds or pushing & one (unremarkable) low blow will not get a points deduction.

Trying to punish Floyd differently from every other fighter as people don't like him or his style is bit annoying.

T-K-O

HigginsJ wrote: »

I would say he was boo'd because he is not a nice person & he didn't deliver a stand toe-to-toe fight that casual fans wanted.

You would get points deduction for persistent fouling, like I say there was nothing excessive that doesn't happen every week. Guys don't get points deducted for a few holds or pushing & one (unremarkable) low blow will not get a points deduction.

Trying to punish Floyd differently from every other fighter as people don't like him or his style is bit annoying.

well now, Some guys do. Holding does get punished. Again I will use Khan as an example, it cost him vs Peterson.
Hatton v Floyd, the ref takes a point in the 9th, Hatton comes out like a lunatic and gets KO'ed in the 10th

Wlad was excommunicated from the states because of those very same 'skills'

Floyd deserves the criticism IMO - Take nothing away from his obvious talent but he doesn't get a pass on the spoiling tactics.

T-K-O

walshb wrote: »

This is what I want to know. People here seem so clear that all these shots were effective landed shots from Floyd. I saw very little. The compu box numbers are extremely misleading. Neither man landed consistently or effectively through the whole fight yet people are so clear that Floyd easily won? Well, Holyfield isn't. I am not, and some here are not. Sky TV spent more time praising Floyd's evasiveness than his offense, and when he did attack and throw they didn't care too much how effective it was. He was cheered.

I am not anti Floyd here. I am anti bias and anti OTT favoring one man and awarding one man OTT credit for insignificant happenings. I'll award them both the same credit for their not getting hit. Nobody else is. I will award them both the same credit for the amount of shots thrown, which is very close.

Now, the final issue is landed and effective shots. According to compu box landed shot, which for all we know could have been the same idiots like Watt and Rawling and Froch, Floyd put on a landslide win. The viewing I had live on the night did not at all reflect this.

Agreed, lots of close rounds.

e.g 2-2 on the jab count Manny tries to walk him down Floyd counters. 3-2, Floyds rounds. That was pretty much the fight.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

This is what I want to know. People here seem so clear that all these shots were effective landed shots from Floyd. I saw very little. The compu box numbers are extremely misleading. Neither man landed consistently or effectively through the whole fight yet people are so clear that Floyd easily won?

Bren forget computbox, that just further confirms the scoring most made during the fight, Judges and fans, your actually the only Boxing person who i know who is giving Manny any credit, Manny , won 2 rounds to me scoring round per round not after the fact, 2 judges generously gave him 4, either way it was clear cut

The only people i seen giving Manny it are complete donkeys that don't know Boxing and you and all the filipinos who are embarrassing to say the least

Manny ruined the fight as he was the 1 who was meant to go in knocking floyd out, floyd done as we all knew he'd do, just happened to not need to be much as nothing came at him

Also i have a pain in my balls with all the running, holding dirty talk, he actually ran very little, held very little and wasn't very dirty, I don't know what fight people were looking at but it wasn't a dirty fight and Floyd certainly didn't go running, That's a myth, he held the center of the ring for most of the fight.

All this fight proves is the hatred for Floyd is very strong and people see 1 headlock and turn it into him holding the whole fight

T-K-O

cowzerp wrote: »

Bren forget computbox, that just further confirms the scoring most made during the fight, Judges and fans, your actually the only Boxing person who i know who is giving Manny any credit, Manny , won 2 rounds to me scoring round per round not after the fact, 2 judges generously gave him 4, either way it was clear cut

The only people i seen giving Manny it are complete donkeys that don't know Boxing and you and all the filipinos who are embarrassing to say the least

Manny ruined the fight as he was the 1 who was meant to go in knocking floyd out, floyd done as we all knew he'd do, just happened to not need to be much as nothing came at him

Also i have a pain in my balls with all the running, holding dirty talk, he actually ran very little, held very little and wasn't very dirty, I don't know what fight people were looking at but it wasn't a dirty fight and Floyd certainly didn't go running, That's a myth, he held the center of the ring for most of the fight.

All this fight proves is the hatred for Floyd is very strong and people see 1 headlock and turn it into him holding the whole fight

..and the other extreme.

Walshb may very well correct me, I don't see him saying manny won the fight. Everyone has said floyd won the rounds [most of them]but he just about won them.

That is the point, there was no masterclass, he pot shotted his way to a w like most of his fights. Great, good for him but don't piss on my shoes and tell me its raining.

Panic E

Nobody is trying to punish him differently, he gets away with that stuff all of the freaking time.

70 times holding against Maidanda for example. Thats outrageous and he should have lost points.

I'm not making the argument he should have lost points in this fight (although it could be made)

But he shouldn't be awarded rounds either for those tactics, running fouling and hugging etc etc etc

walshb wrote: »

This is what I want to know. People here seem so clear that all these shots were effective landed shots from Floyd. I saw very little. The compu box numbers are extremely misleading. Neither man landed consistently or effectively through the whole fight yet people are so clear that Floyd easily won? Well, Holyfield isn't. I am not, and some here are not. Sky TV spent more time praising Floyd's evasiveness than his offense, and when he did attack and throw they didn't care too much how effective it was. He was cheered.

I'm not either. Lost money on Pacman, don't care I knew I could have made an insurance bet in case of Floyd finding a way to win but opted not to.

All I wanted to see was a fair fight. But it wasn't even a fair fight, and I knew that going in. Maybe a good fight? Not as good as it should have been.

If Floyd had of engaged with Pacquaio properly and beat him I would have given him full credit. Instead I had to begrudgingly give him some credit.

For 'finding a way' to win. Actually it was 100 little ways over the past 5 years or more. He didn't beat Pacquaio up, he didn't even beat him off him.

To me it was a draw between them, no clear winner and seemingly that was with Pac fighting only with one good hand and in pain too. (he looked it)

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Bren forget computbox, that just further confirms the scoring most made during the fight, Judges and fans, your actually the only Boxing person who i know who is giving Manny any credit, Manny , won 2 rounds to me scoring round per round not after the fact, 2 judges generously gave him 4, either way it was clear cut

The only people i seen giving Manny it are complete donkeys that don't know Boxing and you and all the filipinos who are embarrassing to say the least

Manny ruined the fight as he was the 1 who was meant to go in knocking floyd out, floyd done as we all knew he'd do, just happened to not need to be much as nothing came at him

Also i have a pain in my balls with all the running, holding dirty talk, he actually ran very little, held very little and wasn't very dirty, I don't know what fight people were looking at but it wasn't a dirty fight and Floyd certainly didn't go running, That's a myth, he held the center of the ring for most of the fight.

All this fight proves is the hatred for Floyd is very strong and people see 1 headlock and turn it into him holding the whole fight

Paul, we saw two different things. I did not see these clear landed shots, and nor did I see a big difference in them. For me both men threw and landed about the same. Manny was more the aggressor in the fight. A case can be made for him getting the verdict. That is my view. Holyfield thought Many won. I wouldn't slate Holyfield for that. The fight had next to no effective scoring, so in saying this then it's very difficult to award the fight to any man.

Manny ruined the fight? I am not sure how that even makes sense in the fight sense? How did he ruin it? He threw the 'same' amount of shots as Floyd. You'd swear it was Manny who was ducking and dodging and pedaling backwards all night long. Not that Floyd was, but Manny was more pressing the action. Even when he missed and fell short, that doesn't mean we should praise Floyd. Manny mostly pushed the fight and created the action. He had some success. Sure, he failed in other attacks, but that's because he is human, and because Floyd is tricky.

As to the hate for Floyd. It's calling a fight as it is. You come across more anti Manny-Pro Floyd than any regular poster here, but I would not say that you hate the guy.

Panic E

Does anyone watch this ThunderDomeBoxing guy? Here is his after fight thoughts, really good objective analysis as always no doubt-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIaEf6Ur2mU

It's good stuff, I was watching all of his uploads in the run to to this fight. It saved me having to look for the articles and stuff myself.

He doesn't miss a beat. He covers other fights too, and he really knows what he is talking about. He criticizes Floyd from time to time!

I'm ok with that, it's usually objective and at least someone does. It's refreshing, he covers all. Well anyway, gonna check out this now.

Chrissybhoy

T-K-O wrote: »

..and the other extreme.

Walshb may very well correct me, I don't see him saying manny won the fight. Everyone has said floyd won the rounds [most of them]but he just about won them.

That is the point, there was no masterclass, he pot shotted his way to a w like most of his fights. Great, good for him but don't piss on my shoes and tell me its raining.

Like most of them ? maybe the last 5 and I'd put that down to age and his bad hands

Henno30

Floyd talking about the fight and Manny's style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9r8JZsi9Ms

T-K-O

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

Like most of them ? maybe the last 5 and I'd put that down to age and his bad hands

you've lost me?

walshb

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

Like most of them ? maybe the last 5 and I'd put that down to age and his bad hands

Of the past 5 fights from Floyd the other night was IMO his weakest in terms of offensive substance. Clearly so.

Mister Vain

Henno30 wrote: »

Floyd talking about the fight and Manny's style - https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=163&v=s9r8JZsi9Ms

Am I the only one who thinks its weird to be doing an interview while getting a shave?

Chrissybhoy

T-K-O wrote: »

you've lost me?

You reckon Mayweather pot shot his way to most of his victories. That's complete lies

walshb

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

You reckon Mayweather pot shot his way to most of his victories. That's complete lies

I supposes he didn't pot shot the other night. You need to actually land clean for a pot shot to be counted!

Henno30

Mister Vain wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks its weird to be doing an interview while getting a shave?

Fight Hype are essentially a Floyd fan site. Floyd gives them access to such 'intimate moments' on occasion in return for their undying loyalty.

T-K-O

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

Like most of them ? maybe the last 5 and I'd put that down to age and his bad hands

' Everyone has said floyd won the rounds [most of them] ' I'm talking about Floyd Vs Manny.

gilmour

walshb wrote: »

You didn't miss it. I didn't give a score. I am debating the whole masterclass and Floyd won easily and Floyd was amazing brigade. Floyd was far from it.

Hand on heart at this moment a draw wouldn't be far off the mark. Floyd didn't show me winning rds with winning offense. I don't know how they scored it but from what I saw live I didn't see winning offense from Floyd or Manny.

:eek:

Jesus suffering Christ you post a lot in this forum and you come out with that? Honestly the more i read from you in this topic the more i question if you actually watch as much boxing as you say you do.
Absolutely incredible

walshb

Get to it, Panic E. I will try. I can't say I will any time soon And, maybe mute the three knobs on Sky if they are commentating.

Panic E

walshb wrote: »

I supposes he didn't pot shot the other night. You need to actually land clean for a pot shot to be counted!

Shot put, isn't that what yerman Heredia was good at once :pac:

Henno30 wrote: »

Fight Hype are essentially a Floyd fan site. Floyd gives them access to such 'intimate moments' on occasion in return for their undying loyalty.

Floydhype! Lol, I'm a bit grumpy today but it is true that. Flomo central

walshb wrote: »

Paul, we saw two different things. I did not see these clear landed shots, and nor did I see a big difference in them. For me both men threw and landed about the same. Manny was more the aggressor in the fight. A case can be made for him getting the verdict. That is my view. Holyfield thought Many won. I wouldn't slate Holyfield for that. The fight had next to no effective scoring, so in saying this then it's very difficult to award the fight to any man.

Holyfield, me, you and a few more here aren't the only ones who think that by far hey. Why not d/l the fight and score it for yourself?

Watch it at 75% speed like Anthony (Thunderdome) suggests. It's the only way to know. He claims it was a different fight altogether.

He also counted the punch stats from some rounds an they were way off from the compupox. It's the only way to know for sure really.

I'm gonna do it because it's something I'l enjoy I think. Might even try and count every punch landed/missed etc but it won't be today.

walshb

gilmour wrote: »

:eek:

Jesus suffering Christ you post a lot in this forum and you come out with that? Honestly the more i read from you in this topic the more i question if you actually watch as much boxing as you say you do.
Absolutely incredible

Get over it. I am not alone in the view. When someone posts up a video clip of all these clear Floyd punches landed I may reconsider.

T-K-O

Panic E wrote: »

Shot put, isn't that what yerman Heredia was good at once :pac:



Floydhype! Lol, I'm a bit grumpy today but it is true that. Flomo central



Holyfield, me, you and a few more here aren't the only ones who think that by far hey. Why not d/l the fight and score it for yourself?

Watch it at 75% speed like Anthony (Thunderdome) suggests. It's the only way to know. He claims it was a different fight altogether.

He also counted the punch stats from some rounds an they were way off from the compupox. It's the only way to know for sure really.

I'm gonna do it because it's something I'l enjoy I think. Might even try and count every punch landed/missed etc but it won't be today.

Interesting, I would not be surprised if that were true.

cowzerp

Holyfield is punch drunk, his opinion is just a 1 person opinion, and 1 who has took to many shots.

Henno30

T-K-O wrote: »

Interesting, I would not be surprised if that were true.

Compubox is a joke. Any time I've ever seen anyone review the shots landed in a fight it's been shown to be way off. Which is only logical, given that its just two guys bashing buttons in real time.

A guy on boxingscene broke it down for this fight - http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676450

Very close. Way closer than most would think.

walshb

"my total fight numbers were

total punches

floyd 109
pac 100

jabs

floyd 54
pac 22

power punches

floyd 45
pac 42

body shots

floyd 8
pac 36

This for me a way more reflective score. I couldn't believe the compu box numbers. How was there such a distance between the landed shots? No way was there such a distance. A draw in this fight is not at all a bonkers score. Neither man went and won the fight, but, Manny for most part seemed the more willing to want to win it.

Also, any reasons or views on why Floyd barely chose at all to fight inside when Manny was close? He's a good inside fighter with strength. He chose to do nothing bu lean on Manny and hug/hold him. Look at his vs. Shane and Hatton. He bullied them and scored on them on the inside.

I think Floyd may look back at his offensive display and be very disappointed that he didn't bull Manny and exert more power and presence on Manny.

Emmo-m-

So if you forget about compubox for a moment then and purely think of the fight from a scoring perspective..

Effective aggression , Clear punching , Defense and Ring generalship.

Based purely on those 4 things they describe how Floyd fought the fight and not Manny. Ineffective aggression plodding forward , not many clean punches land only in the rounds that he won , defense very poor as always and ring generalship which is more of something you can tell or feel on the night would go to Floyd as well as the majority would agree that we knew Floyd was in control for the whole fight.

T-K-O

Henno30 wrote: »

Compubox is a joke. Any time I've ever seen anyone review the shots landed in a fight it's been shown to be way off. Which is only logical, given that its just two guys bashing buttons in real time.

A guy on boxingscene broke it down for this fight - http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676450

Very close. Way closer than most would think.

Interesting thread that one

gilmour

walshb wrote: »

Get over it. I am not alone in the view. When someone posts up a video clip of all these clear Floyd punches landed I may reconsider.

Yeah thats true you're not alone in what you're saying. The others who are saying similar are in no particular order

1. Facebook event junkie casuals who quite clearly watch one boxing "event" every 10 years
2. Evander Holyfield. He can barely string a coherent sentence together these days and funny enough a walking advertisement as to why it might be better to box than trade in the sport of boxing, big follower of Christ too and i'm sure he would not like to believe that God didn't "deliver Floyd into Mannys hands". (Didnt hear much about God from Manny since the fight btw, strange that)
3. The usual anti Mayweather emotional fans on the internet, you know the type that usually posts under any of his Facebook posts with a racial slur and/or "GAyWeather LOL"
4. The population of the Phillipines

Now call me crazy, but i think i'd rather be in the camp of every single other professional fighter that commented on the bout since the fight, the media and pretty much anyone else i know to watch boxing without an emotional attachment to either fighter that scored the fight clearly to Mayweather. Actually wtf am i even doing in this conversation, i'm the bigger fool myself for even bothering to reply.

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

S

Effective aggression , Clear punching , Defense and Ring generalship.
.

Effective aggression? Neither had that to any real discernible level

Clear punching. Neither had that. I think we can all agree there. Woeful connections from both men.

Defense. Hold on, Manny wasn't hit any more regularly than Floyd, yet Floyd is getting all the credit? Manny's blocking and reaction times were very good.

Ring generalship? It has zero to do here. Both men were comfortable and always in charge of where they were. Manny pressed a lot more and Floyd defended a lot more.

walshb

gilmour wrote: »

Now call me crazy, but i think i'd rather be in the camp of every single other professional fighter that commented on the bout since the fight, the media and pretty much anyone else i know to watch boxing without an emotional attachment to either fighter that scored the fight clearly to Mayweather. Actually wtf am i even doing in this conversation, i'm the bigger fool myself for even bothering to reply.

There are hundreds of civil and polite and debating replies to both me and a couple of others here. If you can't, then you should stick me on ignore. You're getting upset with yourself that you are replying. How fooking sad is that?

T-K-O

gilmour wrote: »

Yeah thats true you're not alone in what you're saying. The others who are saying similar are in no particular order

1. Facebook event junkie casuals who quite clearly watch one boxing "event" every 10 years
2. Evander Holyfield. He can barely string a coherent sentence together these days and funny enough a walking advertisement as to why it might be better to box than trade in the sport of boxing, big follower of Christ too and i'm sure he would not like to believe that God didn't "deliver Floyd into Mannys hands". (Didnt hear much about God from Manny since the fight btw, strange that)
3. The usual anti Mayweather emotional fans on the internet, you know the type that usually posts under any of his Facebook posts with a racial slur and/or "GAyWeather LOL"
4. The population of the Phillipines

Now call me crazy, but i think i'd rather be in the camp of every single other professional fighter that commented on the bout since the fight, the media and pretty much anyone else i know to watch boxing without an emotional attachment to either fighter that scored the fight clearly to Mayweather. Actually wtf am i even doing in this conversation, i'm the bigger fool myself for even bothering to reply.

Having read through your points, I couldn't agree more.

Panic E

cowzerp wrote: »

Holyfield is punch drunk, his opinion is just a 1 person opinion, and 1 who has took to many shots.

Any opinion is just 'a 1 person opinion' surely?

He explained himself well, he had it for Pacquaio.

So did Shane Mosely incidentally. 7-5 for Pacman

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

Effective aggression? Neither had that to any real discernible level

Clear punching. Neither had that. I think we can all agree there. Woeful connections from both men.

Defense. Hold on, Manny wasn't hit any more regularly than Floyd, yet Floyd is getting all the credit? Manny's blocking and reaction times were very good.

Ring generalship? It has zero to do here. Both men were comfortable and always in charge of where they were. Manny pressed a lot more and Floyd defended a lot more.

Floyd had cleaner punching in more rounds for me.

Again , i felt cleaner punches landed more often from Floyd.

Manny was perceived to have pressed more but looked more like plodding to me and ineffective.

walshb

From the poster in the article linked by Henno. Might be worth re-watching the fight with these rds in mind. Rd for rd basis. I will try it, and I WILL give an honest assessment. I have always been honest in assessing fights and have got on here plenty of times to admit I got something wrong.


"my summary of the fight from analyzing it in depth. pac clearly won 6 rounds: 3,4,6,7,8, and 10. floyd clearly won 5 rounds: 1,2,5,11,12. The 9th round really was a toss up if i had to lean i would probably give it to pac for simply landing the harder punches. An even round is also fine and giving it to floyd isn't wrong at all. So my card would be either 7-5 pac, 6-5-1 even pac or a draw 6-6.

my reasoning: round 3 a lot of people seem to give to floyd but I can't see why. pac outlanded him in total punches, power punches, and had the best punch of the round. round 6 floyd actually outlanded pac 15-14 but most of floyd's punches were jabs while all of pacs were power to the head and body and he also had floyd wobbled. A clear example of a round where quality over quantity trumps. Round 8 was also an example of quality over quantity as floyd outlanded pac 11-9 but pac stunned him with 3 great flush punches. floyd's power punches lacked any authority or flushness in this round and pac landed the 3 best punches of the round that slightly troubled floyd so I think he deserves this round."

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

Floyd had cleaner punching in more rounds for me.

Again , i felt cleaner punches landed more often from Floyd.

Manny was perceived to have pressed more but looked more like plodding to me and ineffective.

That is where subjectivity comes into it. I saw very little clean power or connection shots from either man. Floyd's shots were very poor in comparison to previous displays from him. Even vs. Madana, where I thought his offense was weak, it was still a deal better than vs. Manny. Very weak and ineffective vs. Manny. It seems that didn't matter to the compu box boys on the night. When Floyd extended his arms they were counted as landed.

The disparity between the two fighters for landed shots is ridiculous.

BTW, Sportmails Jeff Powelll scored the fight a draw.

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

That is where subjectivity comes into it. I saw very little clean power or connection shots from either man. Floyd's shots were very poor in comparison to previous displays from him. Even vs. Madana, where I thought his offense was weak, it was still a deal better than vs. Manny. Very weak and ineffective vs. Manny. It seems that didn't matter to the compu box boys on the night. When Floyd extended his arms they were counted as landed.

The disparity between the tow fighter for landed shots is ridiculous.

Yep that is true but they must have been something land from ringside to come up with the scores. Compubox is certainly not the be all and end all of the fights and has been proven before but it gives a rough estimate at least to go by.

That's a good thread from over at the scene there as well. I must go back and watch again in slo mo this time to see can I see where they are coming from. But using the 4 selections on how to score the rounds I feel they apply more to Floyd than Manny. But obviously there are plenty who disagree which is fine. But at the end of the day its not how you win , just that you do.
And it goes down as a wide UD.

Henno30

T-K-O wrote: »

Interesting thread that one

Civilized, by boxingscene's standards.

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

Yep that is true but they must have been something land from ringside to come up with the scores. Compubox is certainly not the be all and end all of the fights and has been proven before but it gives a rough estimate at least to go by.

That's a good thread from over at the scene there as well. I must go back and watch again in slo mo this time to see can I see where they are coming from. But using the 4 selections on how to score the rounds I feel they apply more to Floyd than Manny. But obviously there are plenty who disagree which is fine. But at the end of the day its not how you win , just that you do.
And it goes down as a wide UD.

The 4 areas you used are IMO very subjective in relation to this fight, which was very disjointed and lacking real flow for many parts. It's very difficult to nail it down as to who was the winner in the categories.

Take ring generalship. Was either man really in control of the ring, or in control of the other man? It seemed to me that both fought at a quite pedestrian and staged and leisurely pace. Neither man really imposed their presence in the ring to make it very uncomfortable for the their opponent.

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

The 4 areas you used are IMO very subjective in relation to this fight, which was very disjointed and lacking real flow for many parts. It's very difficult to nail it down as to who was the winner in the categories.

Take ring generalship. Was either man really in control of the ring, or in control of the other man? It seemed to me that both fought at a quite pedestrian and staged and leisurely pace. Neither man really imposed their presence in the ring to make it very uncomfortable for the ir opponent.

I think for a few of the rounds Floyd's jab gives the impression that he is more in control than manny just bobbing and weaving and not cutting the ring off. Ring generalship as I said it something that maybe is subjective and is marked by the feel of the fight on the night.

Floyd tends to dictate the distance and pace of the fight which is what he does best and can be seen in the fight as you described as pedestrian from both guys. But that's the pace Floyd wants to fight , its no coincidence. Manny is usually a whirlwind and fights at a frantic pace but Floyd took that away from him which shows his ability to neutralize his opponents.

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

I think for a few of the rounds Floyd's jab gives the impression that he is more in control than manny just bobbing and weaving and not cutting the ring off. Ring generalship as I said it something that maybe is subjective and is marked by the feel of the fight on the night.

Floyd tends to dictate the distance and pace of the fight which is what he does best and can be seen in the fight as you described as pedestrian from both guys. But that's the pace Floyd wants to fight , its no coincidence. Manny is usually a whirlwind and fights at a frantic pace but Floyd took that away from him which shows his ability to neutralize his opponents.

But you cannot know that Manny wanted to fight at a frenetic pace? I and I am sure many others would promote a more slowed down and educated aggression vs someone like Floyd. So, did Manny deliberately play it with less intensity? And how much less intensity was it. Watch him vs. Oscar and Cotto. Quite measured and paced and thought out attacks and movements.

Henno30

Floyd's jab won the fight.

T-K-O

Henno30 wrote: »

Civilized, by boxingscene's standards.

Aye, similar to the place I hang out