[Superthread] Mayweather vs Pacman **NO STREAMING REQUESTS**

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

Floyd's jab won the fight.

If that is the case then it's a real weak way for him to win it IMO. I will say that too many times Manny waited and Floyd took the play away by jabbing or right crossing and moving away. Landed or not he was taking the play away a lot of the time.

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

But you cannot know that Manny wanted to fight at a frenetic pace? I and I am sure many others would promote a more slowed down and educated aggression vs someone like Floyd. So, did Manny deliberately play it with less intensity? And how much less intensity was it. Watch him vs. Oscar and Cotto. Quite measured and paced and thought out attacks and movements.

Obviously I cannot say for sure but if his gameplan was to fight at a slower pace than he normally does which is undeniable imo , then the blame falls on both Manny and Freddie. Nobody is ever going to beat Floyd fighting a slow pace on the outside. Surely they knew they couldn't allow Floyd to dictate the pace and distance so easy.

Just on the other point , the jab is probably the most important punch in boxing. It sets up most attacks for floyd and the same should apply with Manny but his jab was pitiful on saturday. You need a double jab to get in close enough to Floyd to let off an attack. Poor tactics from Manny and Freddie.

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

Obviously I cannot say for sure but if his gameplan was to fight at a slower pace than he normally does which is undeniable imo , then the blame falls on both Manny and Freddie. Nobody is ever going to beat Floyd fighting a slow pace on the outside. Surely they knew they couldn't allow Floyd to dictate the pace and distance so easy.

Just on the other point , the jab is probably the most important punch in boxing. It sets up most attacks for floyd and the same should apply with Manny but his jab was pitiful on saturday. You need a double jab to get in close enough to Floyd to let off an attack. Poor tactics from Manny and Freddie.

This is what I am on about. People are dissecting and criticizing Manny's performance all the time and making out that Floyd had a great day at the office. He did not. He didn't land a significant punch the whole night. Floyd's pace was every bit as stagnant and pedestrian as Manny's. It takes two to make a fight. Personally I thought Manny fought a good and clever fight. He barely took any punishment. Could it have been better? Yes. But you must remember who he is facing.

Both men for me had less than great performances, but as a boxing fan, Floyd most definitely let me down more. I expected a clear cut and decisive win. He didn't come close to delivering this. He is taller, rangier, naturally bigger and was the obvious favorite. He failed much more IMO on the night than the smaller and much less favored opponent.

I will tune in in September and I hope in his last fight he decides to go out with some real authority and not deliver a poor performance. If it's against Garcia I hope he really hammers home his talent on Garcia.

Gimme the Floyd from the Mosley fight and I'll be happy.

Panic E

With one arm. Let's not forget that, no wonder he had no jab game.

That's a really serious injury he has I was reading up on it last night.

He may never fight again. Lomachenko had Manny winning also btw.

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

This is what I am on about. People are dissecting and criticizing Manny's performance all the time and making out that Floyd had a great day at the office. He did not. He didn't land a significant punch the whole night. Floyd's pace was every bit as stagnant and pedestrian as Manny's. It takes two to make a fight. Personally I thought Manny fought a good and clever fight. He barely took any punishment. Could it have been better? Yes. But you must remember who he is facing.

Both men for me had less than great performances, but as a boxing fan, Floyd most definitely let me down more. I expected a clear cut and decisive win. He didn't come close to delivering this. He is taller, rangier, naturally bigger and was the obvious favorite. He failed much more IMO on the night than the smaller and much less favored opponent.

I will tune in in September and I hope in his last fight he decides to go out with some real authority and not deliver a poor performance. If it's against Garcia I hope he really hammers home his talent on Garcia.

Gimme the Floyd from the Mosley fight and I'll be happy.

Floyd is the undefeated champion , everybody knows his style is defensive its up to Manny or whoever the opponent is to bring it to Floyd and get him out of his comfort zone like Maidana and Oscar did otherwise he just going into autopilot and cruising to victory just like he did on saturday. And that blame falls on Manny IMO of course

At this stage of his career Floyd isn't picking to get in a war if he doesn't have to and can you blame him? I totally agree that I would love to see him come out and dominate Garcia or whoever he chooses to fight in September but I was hoping manny was going to bring his A game and force Floyd to bring his A game as well but that never materialized unfortunately.

Gimme the Floyd that beat Gati half to death. People forget Floyd wasn't always a defensive fighter. He went through plenty of years in entertaining fights.

walshb

Panic E wrote: »

He may never fight again. Lomochenko had Manny winning also btw.

So, I don't feel such a mug now!

pac_man, like I said, you thinking that 114/114 in the Lucas win over Ruslan was fair is far more more comedic than me maybe thinking a draw the other night was fair.

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

Gimme the Floyd that beat Gati half to death. People forget Floyd wasn't always a defensive fighter. He went through plenty of years in entertaining fights.

This is it. That was special. I don't think he has that all around offense at this stage, but surely he can deliver better than the last few performances? Like I said, the offensive display vs. Maidana was a deal better than the other night, and that only hammers home how weak the other night's offensive display was. Plus, Manny was not near as intense of in his face as Maidana was.

Talib Fiasco

Mosley, who also picked Mayweather to win prior to the fight thought Manny won as well. I still think Floyd won but to say it was convincing is just wrong...it was none of the sort. The 118-110 score was up there as bad as CJ Ross' card on the Manny/Bradley 1 fight and the Canelo/Floyd fight. At least they picked the right guy that won but that score was nothing short of a disgrace. Floyd simply did not do enough to win that many rounds...Manny didn't do enough to win more than 5 rounds but to say he only won two rounds is a blatant joke

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

This is it. That was special. I don't think he has that all around offense at this stage, but surely he can deliver better than the last few performances? Like I said, the offensive display vs. Maidana was a deal better than the other night, and that only hammers home how weak the other night's offensive display was. Plus, Manny was not near as intense of in his face as Maidana was.

Yes I agree he could do more but at this stage of his career if he doesn't have to he will just cruise to victory and at 38 can you really blame him?

The offensive display was better becasue Maidana forced him to trade which everyone thought Manny would do in his own way but failed to do so possibly because of the tactics deployed. To be more calculated and what not not but that was just never going to work. I'm sure Canelo would agree.

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

Yes I agree he could do more but at this stage of his career if he doesn't have to he will just cruise to victory and at 38 can you really blame him?
.

That is just it. He cruised, but he didn't cruise to victory. That would suggest an easy night and a clear win. I cannot see how anyone could see that as a cruising win for Floyd. It was as disjointed and weak as I have seen any Mayweather win.

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

That is just it. He cruised, but he didn't cruise to victory. That would suggest an easy night and a clear win. I cannot see how anyone could see that as a cruising win for Floyd. It was as disjointed and weak as I have seen any Mayweather win.

Well manny had maybe two good moments of combinations and pressure and Floyd just shook it off like it was nothing. Other than that Manny did nothing to pressure or get Floyd out of his comfort zone which resulted in Floyd boxing him on the outside and frustrating him and ended up with the UD.

I think if the 3 judges scored it 116-112 there wouldn't be as much discussion. The 118-110 seems to be pissing people off.

Panic E

walshb wrote: »

So, I don't feel such a mug now!

Most MMA fighters thought that Pacquaio won it too. Personally I felt it was a draw as I said earlier a la Jeff Powell

They should have been allowed to fight until there was a clear winner seeing as the rules apparently don't matter :pac:

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

Well manny had maybe two good moments of combinations and pressure and Floyd just shook it off like it was nothing. Other than that Manny did nothing to pressure or get Floyd out of his comfort zone which resulted in Floyd boxing him on the outside and frustrating him and ended up with the UD.

I think if the 3 judges scored it 116-112 there wouldn't be as much discussion. The 118-110 seems to be pissing people off.

Well, for some they had Manny the winner. I have no issue with the card scores as many rds were difficult to score.

You say Floyd boxed him on the outside. Boxed him with what? He wasn't scoring in any decisive manner from the outside. I admit that he was getting off more than Manny, but he wasn't landing. The shots were short and defelcetd and blocked mainly. Same with Manny's outside work.

My take is a draw or close win for either man. I can't see anything even approaching clear cut.

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

Well, for some they had Manny the winner. I have no issue with the card scores as many rds were difficult to score.

You say Floyd boxed him on the outside. Boxed him with what? He wasn't scoring in any decisive manner from the outside. I admit that he was getting off more than Manny, but he wasn't landing. The shots were short and defelcetd and blocked mainly. Same with Manny's outside work.

My take is a draw or close win for either man. I can't see anything even approaching clear cut.

Jabs , straight rights , check hook when he backs up to the corner. I think our disagreement is on whether Floyd really landed enough to win the fight. IMO I seen enough connected clean shots to warrant him win the rounds. As I said I'm gonna go back and watch it slowed down if i can as well.

There's a couple of meme sites have short videos of the clean punches from mayweather if you can source them yourself. But I'm looking forward to the re-watch now regardless.

Panic E

walshb wrote: »

My take is a draw or close win for either man. I can't see anything even approaching clear cut.

Saying that most people who watch the replay are scoring it 7-5 to Manny.

I guess we were expecting more from him but that shouldn't dictate score.

Such a big disparity with the officials brings the whole thing into disrepute.

walshb

Panic E wrote: »

Such a big disparity with the officials brings the whole thing into disrepute.

The actual official card scores are not the issue. It's the insistence from many that only a Floyd win should have been the result, and that even entertaining a close fight or draw, or god forbid a Manny win is ridiculous. It's not ridiculous. I have no issue with Floyd being awarded a win, and even with a large score, but to make out that it was the only result is wrong. A draw or close Manny victory is also a possibility here.

Like I said many times before and like others have said that close fights can have close cards or wide cards. If rds are close then they can go to one man all the time or none of the time or be split. The fight was closely fought in almost all rds. Each 3 minute duration was closely fought. No way either man impressed upon the other or clearly beat the other. No way.

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

The actual official card scores are not the issue. It's the insistence from many that only a Floyd win should have been the result, and that even entertaining a close fight or draw, or god forbid a Manny win is ridiculous. It's not ridiculous. I have no issue with Floyd being awarded a win, and even with a large score, but to make out that it was the only result is wrong. A draw or close Manny victory is also a possibility here.

I just dont see it , but hey that's what the forums are for. Ill be watching intently the next 1 or 2 times I watch the fight back. Hopefully I have some more ammo to come back into this thread with

Panic E

Emmo-m- wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the re-watch now regardless.

x2. It says a lot about the fight though when the only highlight reels are of Floyd's dirty tactics

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

I just dont see it , but hey that's what the forums are for. Ill be watching intently the next 1 or 2 times I watch the fight back. Hopefully I have some more ammo to come back into this thread with

You don't need to watch it feeling that you need to be vindicated. I will try watch it and I will gladly come back and say I got it wrong if that is the case. It's not a Manny vs. Floyd fan base issue with me. It's about fairness and reporting equally for both men. For me that certainly is not the case in many posts and commentaries.

BTW, if you happen to get a clear score for either man then let us know if the rds were very tight and close in your view, which would allow for maybe a different result from a different scorer.

Chrissybhoy

T-K-O wrote: »

' Everyone has said floyd won the rounds [most of them] ' I'm talking about Floyd Vs Manny.

You said he pot shotted his way to the w like most of his fights that's lies.

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

You don't need to watch it feeling that you need to be vindicated. I will try watch it and I will gladly come back and say I got it wrong if that is the case. It's not a Manny vs. Floyd fan base issue with me. It's about fairness and reporting equally for both men. For me that certainly is not the case in many posts and commentaries.

BTW, if you happen to get a clear score for either man then let us know if the rds were very tight and close in your view, which would allow for maybe a different result from a different scorer.

No not to vindicate Floyd winning , I meant to watch it in the possibility I can see more where some people are scoring it close or giving it to Manny. I had it originally 9-3 on saturday night but it was late and I was just trying to enjoy it.

I watched again on sunday purely just to watch in the comfort of my own home ha. Ill be sure to report back after I get a chance to watch it back anyway.

supersean1999

Anyone who thinks that was a draw or manny won,is either lying to them selves or blinded with hatred for mayweather, such nonsense, get over it mayweather deserved the win, he would of beaten pac 10 years ago,5 years ago, and again next year if it happens,

walshb

supersean1999 wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that was a draw or manny won,is either lying to them selves or blinded with hatred for mayweather, such nonsense, get over it mayweather deserved the win, he would of beaten pac 10 years ago,5 years ago, and again next year if it happens,

About as unconvincing a post as there is on the thread.

Loamachenko hates Floyd? Evander hates Floyd? I hate Floyd? Mosely hates Floyd?

supersean1999

walshb wrote: »

About as unconvincing a post as there is on the thread.

Loamachenko hates Floyd? Evander hates Floyd? I hate Floyd?

Probably, i dont really like him, and most people cant stand him, he gets booed and was convicted of wife abuse, so ya he is probably well hated, whats your big arguement really, other than to go against the grain all to often, its tedious ,

walshb

supersean1999 wrote: »

Probably, i dont really like him, and most people cant stand him, he gets booed and was convicted of wife abuse, so ya he is probably well hated, whats your big arguement really, other than to go against the grain all to often, its tedious ,

Oh, so it's just me who goes against the grain?

What's your view apart from saying "it's tedious?" Have you got anything constructive or of value to add, maybe?

I don't see why anyone would come to a debate and bring next to nothing with them, apart from people "lying to them selves or blinded."

supersean1999

walshb wrote: »

Oh, so it's just me who goes against the grain?

What's your view apart from saying "it's tedious?" Have you got anything constructive or of value to add, maybe?

I don't see why anyone would come to a debate and bring next to nothing with them, apart from people "lying to them selves or blinded."

Mayweather clearly won, there is no debate in my eyes, i dont feel the need to justify what 95% (thats a guess) of the world and 3 judges thought, time to move on, ill unfollow the thread because reading it has become a bit annoying, so thats the debate over, enjoy

walshb

supersean1999 wrote: »

Mayweather clearly won, there is no debate in my eyes, i dont feel the need to justify what 95% (thats a guess) of the world and 3 judges thought, time to move on, ill unfollow the thread because reading it has become a bit annoying, so thats the debate over, enjoy

Thanks, so in a nutshell, nothing to see here! We're all just Floyd haters.

Panic E

walshb wrote: »

I will try watch it and I will gladly come back and say I got it wrong if that is the case.

x2. The punch stats were arseways and the fight was too close, I just wanna see it objectively.

menoscemo

walshb wrote: »

From the poster in the article linked by Henno. Might be worth re-watching the fight with these rds in mind. Rd for rd basis. I will try it, and I WILL give an honest assessment. I have always been honest in assessing fights and have got on here plenty of times to admit I got something wrong.


"my summary of the fight from analyzing it in depth. pac clearly won 6 rounds: 3,4,6,7,8, and 10. floyd clearly won 5 rounds: 1,2,5,11,12. The 9th round really was a toss up if i had to lean i would probably give it to pac for simply landing the harder punches. An even round is also fine and giving it to floyd isn't wrong at all. So my card would be either 7-5 pac, 6-5-1 even pac or a draw 6-6.

my reasoning: round 3 a lot of people seem to give to floyd but I can't see why. pac outlanded him in total punches, power punches, and had the best punch of the round. round 6 floyd actually outlanded pac 15-14 but most of floyd's punches were jabs while all of pacs were power to the head and body and he also had floyd wobbled. A clear example of a round where quality over quantity trumps. Round 8 was also an example of quality over quantity as floyd outlanded pac 11-9 but pac stunned him with 3 great flush punches. floyd's power punches lacked any authority or flushness in this round and pac landed the 3 best punches of the round that slightly troubled floyd so I think he deserves this round."

Funny how the 2 official judges that Gave Pacquiao 4 rounds both had him winning round 9, yet this guy doesn't!!

However I agree with him on Round 8 and 3 I Gave pacman 8 and a share of 3 yet none of the judges gave him anything for those rounds.

Talib Fiasco

I thought Manny won round 12 by default as Floyd literally ran for the whole round.

menoscemo

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I thought Manny won round 12 by default as Floyd literally ran for the whole round.

Even the man who Walsh is quoting who gave the fight to Pacquiao says round 12 was a clear round to Floyd.
Just shows how subjective it can be.

boxer.fan

Lads it's very simple really when you strip it all back.

1. Manny couldn't go at Floyd because he was injured. Unfortunate but it happens

2. Floyd couldn't go at Manny because with Manny being injured he may have got a tko stoppage and would have destroyed any opportunity for a rematch. Remember rematch = money and floyd does like the cash.

walshb

menoscemo wrote: »

Funny how the 2 official judges that Gave Pacquiao 4 rounds both had him winning round 9, yet this guy doesn't!!

However I agree with him on Round 8 and 3 I Gave pacman 8 and a share of 3 yet none of the judges gave him anything for those rounds.

But that's the deal with close and difficult to score rds. People can have different cards because of it. Dave Moreti had Mayweather winning rd 9, just like the guy from boxing scene. Jeff Powell from sportsmail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-3065922/Floyd-Mayweather-vs-Manny-Pacquiao-fight-scorecard-Official-round-round-boxing-stats-compared-Jeff-Powell-s-verdict.html) had the rd even, and the other two judges had Manny winning it.

As to rd 3. I felt that was more a Manny rd than any rd in the fight almost, yet no judge gave him it. We did, Jeff Powell did and the guy in the link did. That's why I find it bizarre that many here won't even entertain anything other than a Floyd win, and clear one at that.

efb

Subjective if you are counting things that don't count. Any report I've read from a sports journo has no issue with the decision

walshb

Levra wrote: »

he clearly beat Pacquiao.

So much so that I (close and could have gone to either man), and others, including Mosley/Holyfield/Lomachenko felt that Manny won.

walshb

efb wrote: »

Subjective if you are counting things that don't count. Any report I've read from a sports journo has no issue with the decision

Nor do I have an issue with the decision.

Joeseph Balls

walshb wrote: »

So much so that I (close and could have gone to either man), and others, including Mosley/Holyfield/Lomachenko felt that Manny won.

Walsh I believe you are like me in thinking Oscar beat Floyd. In your opinion do you feel this was as close? Different style of fight I know.

walshb

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Walsh I believe you are like me in thinking Oscar beat Floyd. In your opinion do you feel this was as close? Different style of fight I know.

I watched that Oscar fight twice and it was close, but again, no way clear for Mayweather. His offense was nothing special, and people forget that Floyd missed as much shots as Oscar. Oscar blocked many many shots in that fight. It was a poor fight. Split decision win. Razor close win for Floyd. No issue with Oscar getting that verdict.

This Pacman fight was even less offensively impressive from Floyd. I will say it was the weakest offensive display in Floyd's career.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Diddley Squat

I felt deflated for a few days after the fight .................

I really hope they both retire now and lets start again from the beginning.

THe time is now for a new generation to emerge. A new era with a new set of stars, and a new set of contests.

Mister Vain

Pacman and Maidana would be a good fight.

Panic E

So here it is, the very best of Floyd's 'masterful' performance. Your thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5YzKTIwprY

wrote:

Mayweather vs Pacquiao In case you are one of those casual boxing fans that watched the fight and thought Manny Pacman Pacquiao actually had a chance against Floyd Money Mayweather or questioned why your favorite fighter only threw 400 punches the whole match. This video was made to help school you on the art boxing. Now everyone settle down while class is in session!

walshb

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

2-3 rds you scored you admit were close. In saying this it's not at all strange or off that they could go to Manny depending on subjectivity and criteria. 8-4 can easily become 6-6.

I must watch rd 1 again. I gave it to Floyd, but felt that it was not at all clear. It was a tame and tight rd.

Have you a link to the complete fight?

walshb

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Very true.

Mister Vain

Panic E wrote: »

So here it is, the very best of Floyd's 'masterful' performance. Your thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5YzKTIwprY

Yep that pretty much sums it up. Pacman was outclassed, simple as.

Panic E

Mister Vain wrote: »

Yep that pretty much sums it up. Pacman was outclassed, simple as.

Barely any of the shots in that video landed though??? I think it's 2, or 3.

I'l have to watch it again but you can tell as they are framed and slo-mo'd

And so are shots that don't land in that reel which doesn't make any sense!

Mister Vain

Panic E wrote: »

Barely any of the shots in that video landed though?

Sure they did. Not all were clean, but he landed more than Manny. I agree with most of the reasons in that video such as speed, counter punching, ring generalship etc, all of which Floyd was better at. Manny just didn't do enough to win the fight, or even make it a close contest for that matter.

Panic E

Mister Vain wrote: »

Sure they did. Not all were clean, but he landed more than Manny. I agree with most of the reasons in that video such as speed, counter punching, ring generalship etc, all of which Floyd was better at. Manny just didn't do enough to win the fight, or even make it a close contest for that matter.

Mickey mouse jabs man? He threw a good few, but most didn't land or were blocked etc. He landed 1 good hook and 1 good straight the whole fight.

His only 2 power shots there. I agree Manny didn't do enough for whatever reason, but he did land the harder shots on the night for one thing.

walshb

Panic E wrote: »

Mickey mouse jabs man? He threw a good few, but most didn't land or were blocked etc. He landed 1 good hook and one good straight the whole fight (power shots). I agree Manny didn't do enough for whatever reason, but he did land the harder shots on the night for one thing.

Exactly what I was thinking. The offense from both men was mickey mouse. Mayweather's was every bit as weak as Pacquiao's. Close fight throughout.

Mister Vain

Panic E wrote: »

Mickey mouse jabs man? He threw a good few, but most didn't land or were blocked etc. He landed 1 good hook and 1 good straight the whole fight.

Did you not see the bodywork, effective aggression and power clips? He landed a lot more than a few Mickey mouse jabs.