Diving/Simulation

Panthro

I choose to believe the guy that presents Match of the Day, the same guy who dressed up as Britney Spears.
The same guy who once shat on the pitch.
Gary Love. I believe.

COYVB

So Guzan said he asked Suarez if he'd touched him, and Suarez said he didn't know. If he didn't know why did he drop like he was shot and look for a pen other than he was trying to con the ref?

Was expecting another 5 pages on this dive

Bloody foreigners with their diving and play acting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mucm1IwJwas

matrim

rarnes1 wrote: »

Was expecting another 5 pages on this dive

Bloody foreigners with their diving and play acting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mucm1IwJwas

I don't see anyone defending that either

matrim

matrim wrote: »

I don't see anyone defending that either

There's divers at every club.

Sometimes you wouldn't think it

Skylinehead

rarnes1 wrote: »

Was expecting another 5 pages on this dive

Why? It wasn't prolific and didn't lead to anything (like a penalty). It also happened in a smaller game on a Monday night. You know full well why there's no discussion on it, so stop pretending otherwise.

Januzaj leading the way this season, quite a way to go to catch the leader Bale who's way out in front.

Adnan Januzaj has become the second most booked player in the EPL after his yellow card for diving against Tottenham Hotspurs on Wednesday. The 18-year old has just 14 PL appearances in his debut season as a first teamer at Manchester United but has already picked up 3 yellow cards for simulation.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

Why? It wasn't prolific and didn't lead to anything (like a penalty). It also happened in a smaller game on a Monday night. You know full well why there's no discussion on it, so stop pretending otherwise.

Don't upset the Everton fans!

Hey, it was tongue in cheek somewhat.

Didn't see much attention in the media about it either mind you

Skylinehead

rarnes1 wrote: »

Don't upset the Everton fans!

Hey, it was tongue in cheek somewhat.

Didn't see much attention in the media about it either mind you

Because it was a nothing incident. Nothing happened, no goals were scored, nobody was sent off etc.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

Because it was a nothing incident. Nothing happened, no goals were scored, nobody was sent off etc.

So it only warrents discussion when it leads to something?

Julez

What annoys me more than diving is fans biased opinions about dives. Loads of players dive, sometimes is quite impressive, its almost a skill. Not admirable, but still. :pac:

That chart with Januzaj is crazy for the little amount of appearances he's had. I think two of them were blatant, the third not so much, but arguments for either side. He's young though hopefully he'll stop... or get better at it.

Skylinehead

rarnes1 wrote: »

So it only warrents discussion when it leads to something?

Warrants doesn't even come into it, of course people are only going to discuss it when it leads to something. Nobody cares about that one.

smileyj1987

noodler wrote: »

It was a clear dive.

My fellow Liverpool fans doing themselves no favours denying it.

Clear dive ? How do you work that one out ?

It was case of Suarez going down easily and exgarrating the contact . That isn't a dive in my eyes . Guzan gave Suarez an excuse to go down . Any player in suarezs shoes would have gone to ground .

Skylinehead

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Clear dive ? How do you work that one out ?

It was case of Suarez going down easily and exgarrating the contact . That isn't a dive in my eyes . Guzan gave Suarez an excuse to go down . Any player in suarezs shoes would have gone to ground .

If there's not enough contact to send him down, it is a dive by definition.

smileyj1987

Skylinehead wrote: »

If there's not enough contact to send him down, it is a dive by definition.

It isn't a dive there is contact . A dive by definition is someone going to ground without being fouled . It was called going down easy . A lot of players go down easily now .

Skylinehead

smileyj1987 wrote: »

It isn't a dive there is contact . A dive by definition is someone going to ground without being fouled . It was called going down easy . A lot of players go down easily now .

Yes, but contact doesn't necessarily mean a foul. Like in Guzan's case. There's contact, but nowhere near enough to bring Suarez down, so it's a dive.

elefant

smileyj1987 wrote: »

It isn't a dive there is contact . A dive by definition is someone going to ground without being fouled . It was called going down easy . A lot of players go down easily now .

Of course it can be a dive if there's contact! Where has this line of thinking come from?

It's a sad view of modern sportsmanship if this is what it's come to, if anyone can believe this is true. If someone touches you it's fair game to cheat.

(I didn't see the Suarez incident, so not commenting on that)

Agueroooo

I am all for a debate on diving etc, but why was there not the equal amount of outrage with the more recent (no contact) dives from other PL players in the past few weeks?

smileyj1987

elefant wrote: »

Of course it can be a dive if there's contact! Where has this line of thinking come from?

It's a sad view of modern sportsmanship if this is what it's come to, if anyone can believe this is true. If someone touches you it's fair game to cheat.

(I didn't see the Suarez incident, so not commenting on that)

The reason you have to go down spectacularly when you are fouled is to get your penalty or free kick . I don't think you can call it diving when there is a foul commited . So I think you do need to go down easily at times to get your decision .
If a player is fouled inside the box unless he goes to ground he won't get a penalty . That's why a lot of players go to ground easily now .

Agueroooo

Agueroooo wrote: »

I am all for a debate on diving etc, but why was there not the equal amount of outrage with the more recent (no contact) dives from other PL players in the past few weeks?

Suarez is the best player in the league. Ronaldo used to get the same attention when he was at it. Both are foreign too so the english tabloids jump on it.

Skylinehead

smileyj1987 wrote: »

The reason you have to go down spectacularly when you are fouled is to get your penalty or free kick . I don't think you can call it diving when there is a foul commited . So I think you do need to go down easily at times to get your decision .
If a player is fouled inside the box unless he goes to ground he won't get a penalty . That's why a lot of players go to ground easily now .

It wasn't a foul though. Contact does not necessarily mean a foul, or there'd be a thousand fouls per game.

smileyj1987

Skylinehead wrote: »

It wasn't a foul though. Contact does not necessarily mean a foul, or there'd be a thousand fouls per game.

So an ex pro referee and all the pundits call it as a penalty and you don't think it's a foul . I had a villa fan beside me in the pub on Saturday night and he said Guzan was foolish for rushing out like that because 9 out of 10 times a keeper rushing out an making even the most minimal of contact will result in a penalty being awarded .

Skylinehead

smileyj1987 wrote: »

So an ex pro referee and all the pundits call it as a penalty and you don't think it's a foul . I had a villa fan beside me in the pub on Saturday night and he said Guzan was foolish for rushing out like that because 9 out of 10 times a keeper rushing out an making even the most minimal of contact will result in a penalty being awarded .

I've actually seen the pundits to be fairly split. And an MOTD poll (although it's hardly perfect) had it 2 to 1 as a dive. It was foolish, and it may result in a penalty being awarded, but it's still a dive.

AdamD

smileyj1987 wrote: »

So an ex pro referee and all the pundits call it as a penalty and you don't think it's a foul . I had a villa fan beside me in the pub on Saturday night and he said Guzan was foolish for rushing out like that because 9 out of 10 times a keeper rushing out an making even the most minimal of contact will result in a penalty being awarded .

Why can't people distinguish between Guzan being an absolute tool and Guzan fouling him...


Unsubbing from this thread anyway, Liverpool fans acting paranoid as **** again

Liamalone

BMJD wrote: »

Are we going to protect players from reckless challenges too or are we just looking to get one up on Luis? He gets lumped out of it in pretty much every match but not a lot of people seem to be bothered about that for one reason or another.

Bad challenge, agreed by all I think.

Back to the simulation, anyone remember this sending off, later rescinded. It's in his dna.

Liam O

Agueroooo wrote: »

I am all for a debate on diving etc, but why was there not the equal amount of outrage with the more recent (no contact) dives from other PL players in the past few weeks?

Why were none of the Liverpool fans defending Januzaj and the rest when they were booked for it instead of just bringing up the amount of yellows he's gotten? It only seems to be justifiable when somebody on your own team does it and opinions seem to change by the week based on that.

irishmover

Skylinehead wrote: »

It wasn't a foul though. Contact does not necessarily mean a foul, or there'd be a thousand fouls per game.

Don't you know football is a non-contact sport?!

Skylinehead

irishmover wrote: »

Don't you know football is a non-contact sport?!

Some people here actually believe it.

irishmover

Guzan asked Suarez after the game "was there contact" Suarez replied "I don't know".

Simulation. Straight from the horses mouth. End of.

barone

every fan of every team would call a penalty if it were their player in this case (suarez v villa) to claim otherwise is nonsense

Will I Amnt

barone wrote: »

every fan of every team would call a penalty if it were their player in this case (suarez v villa) to claim otherwise is nonsense

Of course they will look for it. Admitting that it was the wrong call and they got away with one is another story.

COYVB

rarnes1 wrote: »

Was expecting another 5 pages on this dive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mucm1IwJwas

You'd see it if there were people in here saying it was a definite free

noodler

Diving apologists drag the game down

Football will be lost if it follows Neville and Carragher's moral compass

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/diving-apologists-drag-the-game-down-29938474.html




Can't paste the full article anymore as per the rules but glad to see some people can still call a spade a spade. Probably more appropriate to post in the Liverpool thread.

smileyj1987

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNx5ok60U6A

Liam O

noodler wrote: »

Diving apologists drag the game down

Football will be lost if it follows Neville and Carragher's moral compass

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/diving-apologists-drag-the-game-down-29938474.html




Can't paste the full article anymore as per the rules but glad to see some people can still call a spade a spade. Probably more appropriate to post in the Liverpool thread.

I would debate that it's the most over scrutinised aspect of football tbh for what it is. Tough tacklers get away with some very bad tackles like Rafael did last week, the players they are tackling get away with going down easy or anticipating contact. Where the problem arises is people not being able to accept that someone on their team dives and making it a tit for tat oneupmanship contest. 'Rooney dives' 'yeah well look at Gerrard'. I'm guilty of it myself but have tried to stay away from getting into those types of arguments as they lead nowhere and ignore the actual issue at hand.

Suarez is hardly any worse, if at all, than anyone else. It's just that when anything happens involving him it's like pro wrestling.

Again with the making excuses but inconsistencies in refereeing make a lot of dives necessary, even if they don't explain the whinging on the ground afterwards. If Suarez had run into the keeper as he apparently should have he could've been criticised for "leaving the boot it". Henderson for Liverpool a month or 2 ago was hit with a disgraceful tackle in the first minute of a game and was anonymous for the rest of it. Gary Neville admitted United used to go out with the intention of "leaving one on" the Arsenal players in every tackle.

As long as the time on the camera, the intensity in the lead-up and the general flow of the game influence referees so much it'll keep happening. If an Arsenal player put the ball past someone in the 18-yard-box and felt contact and didn't go down (unless there was a clear shot following) I'd give out. I don't think 'keepers rushing from their line should be an instant yellow card but sliding into a player's path is at least idiotic.

Corholio

Deleted User wrote: »

Suarez is hardly any worse, if at all, than anyone else. It's just that when anything happens involving him it's like pro wrestling.

Again with the making excuses but inconsistencies in refereeing make a lot of dives necessary, even if they don't explain the whinging on the ground afterwards. If Suarez had run into the keeper as he apparently should have he could've been criticised for "leaving the boot it". Henderson for Liverpool a month or 2 ago was hit with a disgraceful tackle in the first minute of a game and was anonymous for the rest of it. Gary Neville admitted United used to go out with the intention of "leaving one on" the Arsenal players in every tackle.

As long as the time on the camera, the intensity in the lead-up and the general flow of the game influence referees so much it'll keep happening. If an Arsenal player put the ball past someone in the 18-yard-box and felt contact and didn't go down (unless there was a clear shot following) I'd give out. I don't think 'keepers rushing from their line should be an instant yellow card but sliding into a player's path is at least idiotic.

In fairness, I think Suarez does be a bit more theatrical with contact than some, and it doesn't help him at times. I don't have anything particularly against him, but a lot of tackles, both ones that are fouls and aren't fouls, he does have a tendency to flail his arms and legs and cringe his face at the contact or non contact.

irishmover

I don't like Suarez but I can see where people are coming from that the media over do things regarding him. If this here was Suarez the world of football would be demanding a ban. Shocking.

matrim

irishmover wrote: »

I don't like Suarez but I can see where people are coming from that the media over do things regarding him. If this here was Suarez the world of football would be demanding a ban. Shocking.

What was that? Sure it was probably a free from the spurs player but should have then been a yellow for the Newcastle player for simulation.

But as has been mentioned before about other incidents, nobody is defending it. If that was Surez you would probably have a bunch of people on saying there was contact and it was clever play to draw the refs attention to it.

irishmover

matrim wrote: »

What was that? Sure it was probably a free from the spurs player but should have then been a yellow for the Newcastle player for simulation.

But as has been mentioned before about other incidents, nobody is defending it. If that was Surez you would probably have a bunch of people on saying there was contact and it was clever play to draw the refs attention to it.

Thats it really. It was a silly challenge, high foot. A free kick. Made a complete meal of it for absolutely no real reason and then rolled around injured afterwards. There's been Spurs players who've done it in the past, it's just the latest one I've seen and an excellent example of simulation aswell.

I suppose you're right. We would see people defending Suarez if it was him aswell. But it would mostly just come from Liverpool fans. SO maybe I should have said 'the world of football (except Liverpool fans) would be up in arms for Suarez to be banned'!! Which I'm sure they would and the FA would probably take retrospective action aswell.

Will I Amnt

"If that was Suarez..."
If I had a euro for every time I heard that phrase...
Enough with this victim mentality please :rolleyes:
He dives, play acts, rolls around like a dropped sausage, rival fans will get pissed off with it. Get over it.
There wouldn't be half as much outrage towards him on here if people just accepted that instead of arguing "There was contact, look at this still image I have found on RAWK from a spectators 0.6mp camera in row Z"

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

"If that was Suarez..."
If I had a euro for every time I heard that phrase...
Enough with this victim mentality please :rolleyes:
He dives, play acts, rolls around like a dropped sausage, rival fans will get pissed off with it. Get over it.
There wouldn't be half as much outrage towards him on here if people just accepted that instead of arguing "There was contact, look at this still image I have found on RAWK from a spectators 0.6mp camera in row Z"

Love the hatred.

You take things way too seriously.

The victim bit is classy.

Agueroooo

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Good.

look if you're going to go around dropping scummy comments then don't expect an intellectual debate in return.

now here is another funny gif

Agueroooo

I find this scummy....

Enough with this victim mentality please

and its very hard to take it out of context.

that is my personal opinion.
not drama lama
no Mr Sensitive
no pissy precious pants

any regular follower of football will know when, and what context the 'victim' card is pulled , and sung about.

it was (again imo) a badly vaguely disguised pop, and there was so many other ways to get the point across.

gone way off topic so last words to you(s)

Will I Amnt

Agueroooo wrote: »

I find this scummy....



and its very hard to take it out of context.

that is my personal opinion.
not drama lama
no Mr Sensitive
no pissy precious pants

any regular follower of football will know when, and what context the 'victim' card is pulled , and sung about.

it was (again imo) a badly vaguely disguised pop, and there was so many other ways to get the point across.

gone way off topic so last words to you(s)

I'm talking about Suarez and how it's always someone else's fault, ref, opposition player whatever. Then when someone gets away with something... "if that was Suarez..."

That's all I meant, so you can shove your opinion wherever it fits.
How dare you or anybody else attribute it to something else.

Do you want the word victim banned from the soccer forum? Or just for United fans? Or just me?
Bizarre.

Agueroooo

last word was for you but seeing you asked a question....

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Do you want the word victim banned from the soccer forum? Or just for United fans? Or just me?
Bizarre.

I have no clue what you are on about tbh...who said anything about wanting specific words not to be used?
My point was clearly not about just one word.

Will I Amnt

Agueroooo wrote: »

I have no clue what you are on about tbh.

Pretty simple questions tbh.

Pram overturned, toys all over the place.

---

Back on track

irishmover

Will I Amnt wrote: »

"If that was Suarez..."
If I had a euro for every time I heard that phrase...
Enough with this victim mentality please :rolleyes:
He dives, play acts, rolls around like a dropped sausage, rival fans will get pissed off with it. Get over it.
There wouldn't be half as much outrage towards him on here if people just accepted that instead of arguing "There was contact, look at this still image I have found on RAWK from a spectators 0.6mp camera in row Z"

I don't like Suarez one bit. Despise him and his cheating ways. However that dive I posted by Debuchy was bloody terrible. None of you would have known about it unless I posted it. Have you seen it mentioned in any media outlets?

Unfortunately the simple fact is if Suarez had done that exact same thing it would have made back pages and Sky Sports would have had experts in for lengthy discussions about it. The FA would have been forced to take retrospective action and so on.

Will I Amnt

irishmover wrote: »

I don't like Suarez one bit. Despise him and his cheating ways. However that dive I posted by Debuchy was bloody terrible. None of you would have known about it unless I posted it. Have you seen it mentioned in any media outlets?

Unfortunately the simple fact is if Suarez had done that exact same thing it would have made back pages and Sky Sports would have had experts in for lengthy discussions about it. The FA would have been forced to take retrospective action and so on.

And my point is he has brought it on himself. He is a wet dream for the likes of Sky, if he behaved himself from day 1 of his Premier league career he wouldn't be getting the stick he gets. He came with a reputation and he has continued with it.

There's some people linking Diego Costa with United, I don't see it happening but if it did, I can guarantee you would see the same scenario playing out.