Ronan O'Gara documentary on RTE1 tonight

CatFromHue

durkadurka wrote: »

I'm fairly sure he's forgotten his children's school bags there.

Bit disappointing overall- not with ROG, but with the doc.
He was good and reasonably fair.

I do wonder about elite sport though. The shattering disappointments seem to massively outweigh the huge victories .

These guys are absolutely tormented with defeat- you see similar with Keane and indeed Sexton.

Richie Sadlier on Off The Ball last year had a pretty interesting segment on what is success for pro footballers. If you've a few mins to listen I'd recommend it.
http://www.newstalk.ie/What-matters-when-its-over-What-is-success-Richie-Sadlier-on-Off-the-Ball

JohnFalstaff

MD1990 wrote: »

came across as very selfish & self centred to me
no mention of other great players he played with just all about himself
also the way he handled Sexton taking his place as one of the older players was disgraceful

Would you really prefer to hear the usual inane platitudes that professional sports people trot out routinely?

I thought it was an amazing insight into the true hurt that players like O'Gara must feel knowing their time is coming to an end.

He lived to play in the green shirt and, to quote a poet:

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Chabals Beard

MD1990 wrote: »

yes about his time on the teams of Munster & Ireland
you would think he was nearly playing an individual sport the way he was talking.His attitude was Ireland would have not won anything without him & after all he had done how dare they drop him in favour of Sexton.
There was no i didn't play well & i could see why i was dropped
of course he was going to thank the players at an award ceremony it just a token gesture imo

His reaction to being dropped was completely human, and the fact that he didn't hide it or bull**** his way around his feelings at the time was admirable. It would have been extremely easy for him to say he was happy for Sexton and come across as Mister Nice Guy, like many others would have in the fear they would be ridiculed, but that wasn't what O'Gara was about. He was always his own man.

duckysauce

MD1990 wrote: »

yes about his time on the teams of Munster & Ireland
you would think he was nearly playing an individual sport the way he was talking.His attitude was Ireland would have not won anything without him & after all he had done how dare they drop him in favour of Sexton.
There was no i didn't play well & i could see why i was dropped
of course he was going to thank the players at an award ceremony it just a token gesture imo

maybe watch the whole doc before spouting crap, he talks about how bad he played in his final season at the end.

farrell2121

MD1990 wrote: »

came across as very selfish & self centred to me
no mention of other great players he played with just all about himself
also the way he handled Sexton taking his place as one of the older players was disgraceful

What Programme were you watching ??

Corholio

Not a Rugby fan really, a big football fan and a casual other sports fan. While it was an ok documentary, the structure was terrible. Any time there looked to be a 'moment' happening in the documentary, they just changed the tone of it completely.

Very impressed with way O'Gara comes across, some may see a guy who think a lot of himself but for me personally I saw a guy who loves the game and a guy who played at the very top level very successfully not accepting second best, be it his own performance, another players performance or a coaches decision. The bit with Kidney changing the lineup I found very interesting, was this widely known at the time that Kidney had done that?

pappyodaniel

Corholio wrote: »

Not a Rugby fan really, a big football fan and a casual other sports fan. While it was an ok documentary, the structure was terrible. Any time there looked to be a 'moment' happening in the documentary, they just changed the tone of it completely.

Very impressed with way O'Gara comes across, some may see a guy who think a lot of himself but for me personally I saw a guy who loves the game and a guy who played at the very top level very successfully not accepting second best, be it his own performance, another players performance or a coaches decision. The bit with Kidney changing the lineup I found very interesting, was this widely known at the time that Kidney had done that?

Personally I think ROG was more than aware of his limitations. That to me was more impressive than anythng else
about the man. He pushed himself to such a level that he made himself to be (in my opinion) be the 2nd best out half in world rugby.

For a guy with his physique what he has achieved is seriously admirable. It's guys like him who make such an inspirational figure to young small guys who have serous aspirations of making it to the top of their chosen sport.

Todd Toddington III

Really enjoyed watching that. Nice that himself and jonny ended up buddies after everything they went through

Spanish Johnny

As documentaries go I thought it was ok. Felt the elephant in the room or lack of it was a more expansive and honest speak on his Lions career. Thought it was largely swept under the carpet and therefore lacking overall.

Trippie

Anyone know when it will be up on the rte player or is there another way I can watch it here in the US?

miroslavklose

Am I the only one who thought the documentary was structured pretty well? It was made pretty clear that there were a few years of in-depth interviews and those were mixed with archive footage, both contemporary and before the filming began. It was well put together in my opinion.

As for Rog, he came across exactly like I expected and how I know him to be from his past media appearances. He is brutally honest, he feels betrayed by Kidney and he hated Sexton while simultaneously admiring him for putting it up to him. A lot of parallels to Keane in the latter part where it all went downhill.

dodderangler

miroslavklose wrote: »

Am I the only one who thought the documentary was structured pretty well? It was made pretty clear that there were a few years of in-depth interviews and those were mixed with archive footage, both contemporary and before the filming began. It was well put together in my opinion.

As for Rog, he came across exactly like I expected and how I know him to be from his past media appearances. He is brutally honest, he feels betrayed by Kidney and he hated Sexton while simultaneously admiring him for putting it up to him. A lot of parallels to Keane in the latter part where it all went downhill.

I thought it was done very well. Was a doc about him nd his ups and downs in his career, his relationship with sexton etc.
the man saved Ireland on more than one occasion and same with Munster. Had a great career and yes he is brutally honest.
Always a legend in my book.

rrpc

Very good documentary. The jumping around was a bit disconcerting but overall was very insightful. Bears watching again as there were some comments that might have been missed. He made a comment about Kidney leaving him at it for training with no discussions about tactics which we all knew, but had never heard articulated by a player before.

The Racing Metro clips at the beginning and end were hilarious, especially him speaking French. I was at a loss at the start, not knowing at first that it was French he was speaking

Strange parallels between himself and Jonny; they both married their childhood sweethearts who are both teachers.

P_1

Pretty decent docu I'd have to say. Only drawback was a total non mention of the Lions but I can imagine they can get fairly territorial over rights which would explain that.

molloyjh

Corholio wrote: »

Not a Rugby fan really, a big football fan and a casual other sports fan. While it was an ok documentary, the structure was terrible. Any time there looked to be a 'moment' happening in the documentary, they just changed the tone of it completely.

Very impressed with way O'Gara comes across, some may see a guy who think a lot of himself but for me personally I saw a guy who loves the game and a guy who played at the very top level very successfully not accepting second best, be it his own performance, another players performance or a coaches decision. The bit with Kidney changing the lineup I found very interesting, was this widely known at the time that Kidney had done that?

Yeah there was some mention if it at the time from what I can remember, whether it was because ROG himself said it publicly or because the press copped it by watching the training set-up I'm not sure.

gaius c

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

As documentaries go I thought it was ok. Felt the elephant in the room or lack of it was a more expansive and honest speak on his Lions career. Thought it was largely swept under the carpet and therefore lacking overall.

Wait for the sky documentary to cover that. Would get a big audience in UK!

Corholio wrote: »

The bit with Kidney changing the lineup I found very interesting, was this widely known at the time that Kidney had done that?

It was known but not widely and to be honest, I think that's where he left himself most open to charges of trying to play mind games re his own selection. Not everybody is as instinctive as he is so it was perfectly fair for the coaches to mull over that decision and take their time coming to it.

In reality, he should have gone after the world cup.

P_1

gaius c wrote: »

In reality, he should have gone after the world cup.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. I can imagine how tough it would be for somebody with so much passion to know when to call it a day though.

gaius c

P_1 wrote: »

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. I can imagine how tough it would be for somebody with so much passion to know when to call it a day though.

That's why you have coaches to make these sort of decisions for the good of the team.

P_1

gaius c wrote: »

That's why you have coaches to make these sort of decisions for the good of the team.

True but sometimes the personality involved can make that decision tougher then it should be. ROG and his retirement actually reminds me a lot of Bret Favre (Longtime NFL Quarterback) and his retirement.

Shout Dust

They really should have mentioned the Lions. And minor enough, but they should have given the scores of the matches, for most of them they didn't for some reason

lukin

I didn't see the last half hour but recorded it and will watch it later. Was there any mention of the Duncan McCrae incident or the time he was choked against Scotland?

Shout Dust

lukin wrote: »

I didn't see the last half hour but recorded it and will watch it later. Was there any mention of the Duncan McCrae incident or the time he nearly got suffocated against Scotland?

No, nothing about either

LuckyLloyd

Maybe the Lion's stuff isn't mentioned much because it wasn't a relevant aspect of his late career?

former legend

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Maybe the Lion's stuff isn't mentioned much because it wasn't a relevant aspect of his late career?

I've only seen the first part but I'm going to assume the grand slam features heavily, which was before his last Lions tour.

And really, the 2009 tour was the only one on which he played a significant role so yeah, it should have been discussed. But since a) RTE would have no footage and b) ROG probably wasn't mad keen to discuss it, maybe it was glossed over.

cocker5

Have o say I thought he came accross as a normal, down to earth kinda guy.

IMO sometimes in interviews / in the press he come come accross poor etc but I though lst night he was honest, emotional and he did himself and his family proud.

I had the pleasure of meeting O'Gara in May 2012, not in a rugby setting but he really went out of his way to do something special for someone and i mean really out of his way to do something memorable for a total stranger, which to me says alot about him as a person. While I only met / chatted to him for an hour or so, he came accross as a very decent, under assuming normal guy, we even laughed about Johhny stealing his number 10! We also chatted about other players ie o'Driscol, O'Connell and he had nothing but praise for both Munster and Leinster etc...

Anyway I thought last night he came accross very well, this was a documentary about himself and his life in Rugby with Munster / Ireland etc and IMO not about the other players.
From having the pleasure of meeting him for me he is a legend both professionally and for what he did for my family in 2012.

Yes he's had massive lows but he has also had massive high's in his career, I hope his career continues to blossom!

lukin

Shout Dust wrote: »

No, nothing about either

Surprising, those were two fairly controversial incidents that were significant in his career. Whoever made the program seemed to be obsessed with his relationship with Kidney and the rivalry with Sexton. <Yawn> He has had much more interesting things happen to him in his career, the two above being good examples.

intellectual dosser

lukin wrote: »

Surprising, those were two fairly controversial incidents that were significant in his career. Whoever made the program seemed to be obsessed with his relationship with Kidney and the rivalry with Sexton. <Yawn> He has had much more interesting things happen to him in his career, the two above being good examples.

I enjoyed it but thought it was only 'half ' a documentary.

Why didnt they focus more on ROG taking over from Humphreys? Is it because the majority of the current audience would barely remember? Nothing about the Lions (Particularly McCrae incident). Breezed over the Grand Slam.

Was it because they didnt have the same levels of access to him at the time? ie They only started making the doc from the 2011 WC onwards?

Heroditas

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Maybe the Lion's stuff isn't mentioned much because it wasn't a relevant aspect of his late career?

That's what I assumed too. The documentary was to focus on the last 4 seasons of his career from Autumn 2009 onwards. That was where the vast bulk of the camera shots was taken.
As a result, it would focus on the winding down of his career and any issues he had (at the time) with Sexton and Kidney.
They briefly skimmed over the rest of his career but it's no great surprise that the Lions didn't feature heavily in it due to the limited time they had. Also, no great surprise that the Grand Slam didn't really feature. That wasn't really the point of the documentary.

Even the summary on the RTE Player states that it focuses on 2009/10 season onwards:

Feature-length documentary following the final four years of rugby union star Ronan O'Gara's playing career, and revealing how he made the decision to become a coach in France.

Silver-Tiger

former legend wrote: »

I've only seen the first part but I'm going to assume the grand slam features heavily

Not at all really.

part time punk

P_1 wrote: »

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. I can imagine how tough it would be for somebody with so much passion to know when to call it a day though.

The thing I got from it most though was that he seemed genuinely annoyed with himself with the way it finished up against Scotland and that he would have preferred to have gone out on a high. Interesting comment too about how much Hook/Pope and the RTE panel influence the general public opinion. He seemed totally honest too whihc was good to see.

Overall I felt the doc was a bit missing in areas, as well as what has been mentioned but also nothing about Eddie O Sullivan, Gatland, Dr Phil or the top 10s he's played against for example. Overall a bit too much on JS/ROG whihc is maybe 3/4 years out of 13 year career but maybe that's becuase it happened to coincide with when they were filming.

Quint2010

ROG came across very well in the documentary but it was poorly produced-jumping from one place in time to another too quickly and then back again to a few years before. Nathan Nugent produced it. Any relation to Ryle?

phog

former legend wrote: »

I've only seen the first part but I'm going to assume the grand slam features heavily, which was before his last Lions tour.

And really, the 2009 tour was the only one on which he played a significant role so yeah, it should have been discussed. But since a) RTE would have no footage and b) ROG probably wasn't mad keen to discuss it, maybe it was glossed over.

Not particularly, showed the drop goal and that was about it.

As for b) I doubt ROG prevented any topic being discussed or at least that's how it came across to me.

lukin

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I enjoyed it but thought it was only 'half ' a documentary.

Why didnt they focus more on ROG taking over from Humphreys? Is it because the majority of the current audience would barely remember? Nothing about the Lions (Particularly McCrae incident). Breezed over the Grand Slam.

Was it because they didnt have the same levels of access to him at the time? ie They only started making the doc from the 2011 WC onwards?

I would say whoever made it was not a big rugby fan, someone with only a passing interest in it. That's why it focused on his last four years as they couldn't be bothered finding out stuff before that.

Teferi

lukin wrote: »

Surprising, those were two fairly controversial incidents that were significant in his career. Whoever made the program seemed to be obsessed with his relationship with Kidney and the rivalry with Sexton. <Yawn> He has had much more interesting things happen to him in his career, the two above being good examples.

It was a documentary following the last 4 years of his career. The relationships you mentioned dominated that period, it is absolutely no surprise that they featured heavily.

phog

Quint2010 wrote: »

ROG came across very well in the documentary but it was poorly produced-jumping from one place in time to another too quickly and then back again to a few years before. Nathan Nugent produced it. Any relation to Ryle?

Covered already, no relation

Ryle tweeted about it and mentioned no relation on the tweet.

phog

lukin wrote: »

I would say whoever made it was not a big rugby fan, someone with only a passing interest in it. That's why it focused on his last four years as they couldn't be bothered finding out stuff before that.

They were with him on and off over the 4 years.

jm08

Quint2010 wrote: »

ROG came across very well in the documentary but it was poorly produced-jumping from one place in time to another too quickly and then back again to a few years before. Nathan Nugent produced it. Any relation to Ryle?

Ryle Nugent ‏@RyleNugentRTE 13h
Huge interest in #ROG doc starting on RTE1 now. Labour of love for producers @daveberry75 & Nathan Nugent (no relation!) Hope u enjoy.

Larbre34

Overall the choppy changey nature of the timeline and interview to camera sequence made it less enjoyable than it might have been chronologically, especially for a programme of almost 90 minutes. The lack of direct contemporary interviews with other parties about the man was a bit surprising, it was almost like an attempt at the Senna film in reverse, just snippets of commentary and analysis of the time.

It wasnt quite as gritty as I expected, more about his personal tumult than many outward conflicts or rivalries, I dont think it gave an insight on him that makes me feel any different about him than I pretty much always felt, which is to say respectful but personally ambivalent.

gaius c

Bit disappointing that they hardly touched on the 09 grand slam at all.

jacothelad

mfceiling wrote: »

George Hook will be watching this......with a box of kleenex

I bet he sheds a few tears also.

Davei141

I enjoyed it. I wonder are they following any other players for a similar documentary? That would be class.

jm08

lukin wrote: »

I would say whoever made it was not a big rugby fan, someone with only a passing interest in it. That's why it focused on his last four years as they couldn't be bothered finding out stuff before that.

Dave Berry's Summary

Producer Director in RTE Sport, directing studio for 6 Nations, Against the Head, Champions League, Sunday Game and RTE Sports awards. OB director on Rugby and GAA.

ROG. Ronan O'Gara Documentary TX January 2nd 2014 RTE ONE. Producer,Director
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEF7eimPcJA

Think he also produced the Grand Slam documentary/DVD!

gaius c

Also, passing mention for Gatland and none at all for Eddie.
For a documentary focused on the last 4 years of his career, they have plenty of footage from Munster in the early noughties.
Would like to have seen a few more of the great Ireland tries scored then.

lukin

jm08 wrote: »

Dave Berry's Summary

Producer Director in RTE Sport, directing studio for 6 Nations, Against the Head, Champions League, Sunday Game and RTE Sports awards. OB director on Rugby and GAA.

ROG. Ronan O'Gara Documentary TX January 2nd 2014 RTE ONE. Producer,Director
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEF7eimPcJA

Think he also produced the Grand Slam documentary/DVD!

OK point taken. I still think it would have been better to cover his entire career rather than just the last four years of it.

snotboogie

Swiwi. wrote: »

Well done to getting French radio, in my experience they constantly cut to division 4 football results...drives me nuts, couldn't care less if Aix-en-provence is playing Lille in a nothing game while international rugby is on...

Just in case anybody is wondering, this guy can speak French

Grimebox

What was the whole Nenagh thing? My mind must have wandered for that bit

JM Skipton

Stand out quote from last nights show for me was where O'Gara says being defeated at home to England is unacceptable. This line alone gives a great insight into how his mind worked. Previous Irish players would have done a lap of honour if they beat England whereas O'Gara always genuinely thought Ireland had better players than England.

conf101

I've always admired ROG as a player but his public personality always irritated me. I didn't like how he came across in a lot of interviews or public appearances.

But since he retired my admiration for him has increased massively. He speaks candidly and honestly in a way that most modern sportspeople don't and rarely uses the same old cliches. I guess you could say he did the same as a player but I thought he came across as quite selfish and arrogant as a player, maybe that's just me though.

Anyway, the docu just added to my admiration for him. He came across fantastically in it and it really showed his huge confidence in his own abilities, for which he made no apologies. But I think there was also a certain humbleness in him that we didn't really get to see as a player.

But as others have said I didn't think it was a particularly well made doc. The narrative was all over the place and it didn't really have a clear structure and focus. It was as if they made the documentary out of whatever interviews they were able to get with him over the time, rather than charting the last 4 years of his career. I'd say that the 'final 4 years' narrative was a decision made afterwards because it made most sense with the footage they ended up with.

ThisRegard

lukin wrote: »

I would say whoever made it was not a big rugby fan, someone with only a passing interest in it. That's why it focused on his last four years as they couldn't be bothered finding out stuff before that.

It was a documentary about a rugby player coming towards the end of his playing career, not about rugby.

LuckyLloyd

The documentary was upfront in that the focus was on the latter portion of his career, it shouldn't be surprising that the grand slam and lions stuff is barely mentioned so.