Football Championship 2014

Hibbeler

Padkir wrote: »

While I think that Mayo would win if they were to meet Kerry in a semi, it would be a very nervous trip to HQ for the Mayo fans, given the history...

The place might just explode if we hammered Kerry in Croke Park; can't see it happening though.

If that were to happen it would have to remind you of what happened to Meath in 2001. Beat Kerry by 15 points in semi-final, fans famously singing ole ole towards the end, only to be set up for a massive fall in the final.

Genuinely hope that doesn't happen to Mayo btw. If anyone can stop the Dubs this year it has to be Mayo or else all they've done in the last few years will have been for naught.

Padkir

Hibbeler wrote: »

If that were to happen it would have to remind you of what happened to Meath in 2001. Beat Kerry by 15 points in semi-final, fans famously singing ole ole towards the end, only to be set up for a massive fall in the final.

Genuinely hope that doesn't happen to Mayo btw. If anyone can stop the Dubs this year it has to be Mayo or else all they've done in the last few years will have been for naught.

Oh I agree on both counts.

I'd like to think the players wouldn't let it get to them if it happened given the last couple of years, but there would be a serious party atmosphere in Mayo with the fans if that were to happen!

For all the talk of Donegal or Monaghan stopping Dublin I just can't see it. To be perfectly honest, I don't think Mayo will either if Dublin play like they have been doing. But I suppose there's a couple of games before that to improve and get up to their level. Hopefully we don't get caught out against Cork.

Say Your Number

Padkir wrote: »

Hopefully we don't get caught out against Cork.

When did they get a bye into the Quarter Final

Squatman

Padkir wrote: »

Oh I agree on both counts.

I'd like to think the players wouldn't let it get to them if it happened given the last couple of years, but there would be a serious party atmosphere in Mayo with the fans if that were to happen!

For all the talk of Donegal or Monaghan stopping Dublin I just can't see it. To be perfectly honest, I don't think Mayo will either if Dublin play like they have been doing. But I suppose there's a couple of games before that to improve and get up to their level. Hopefully we don't get caught out against Cork.

Yea, Dublin look a bit upstopable, but no everything can be predicted. I would'nt be at all surprised if sligo beat Cork. I think if its the cork that turned up against kerry, then sligo can take it.
We have to keep in mind too that Kerry only just beat Clare before the cork match. and I never remember Clare being a football stronghold. Plus iirc clare had a man sent off...

Hibbeler

Padkir wrote: »

Oh I agree on both counts.

I'd like to think the players wouldn't let it get to them if it happened given the last couple of years, but there would be a serious party atmosphere in Mayo with the fans if that were to happen!

For all the talk of Donegal or Monaghan stopping Dublin I just can't see it. To be perfectly honest, I don't think Mayo will either if Dublin play like they have been doing. But I suppose there's a couple of games before that to improve and get up to their level. Hopefully we don't get caught out against Cork.

Yeah I was only nine or ten at the time in 01 but I can still remember everyone thinking the final was a foregone conclusion and there was no way we could lose.

Yes people are talking about monaghan or donegal being able to stop the dubs but I'm not so sure about that either. Fact is neither are really that much better than meath and look what happened us last weekend. The only difference being meath set up to play Dublin and got annihilated. Monaghan/Donegal will try to foil Dublin and make it hard for them but ultimately won't be good enough.

Squatman

Hibbeler wrote: »

Yeah I was only nine or ten at the time in 01 but I can still remember everyone thinking the final was a foregone conclusion and there was no way we could lose.

Yes people are talking about monaghan or donegal being able to stop the dubs but I'm not so sure about that either. Fact is neither are really that much better than meath and look what happened us last weekend. The only difference being meath set up to play Dublin and got annihilated. Monaghan/Donegal will try to foil Dublin and make it hard for them but ultimately won't be good enough.

Yea i think so. Id say Jim Gavin is working hard to keep the players disciplined. The dublin teams of old used regularly get players sent off

Nidgeweasel

Hibbeler wrote: »

Yes people are talking about monaghan or donegal being able to stop the dubs but I'm not so sure about that either. Fact is neither are really that much better than meath and look what happened us last weekend.

Seriously, make it stop.

Hibbeler

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Seriously, make it stop.

Yeah nidge I think my lunch has been getting to my head slightly

Nidgeweasel

Hibbeler wrote: »

Yeah nidge I think my lunch has been getting to my head slightly

Can't fault your optimism!

corny

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think the weakness of that side of the draw makes that question very hard to answer.

Regressing or not none of Cork, Sligo or Tipp should not be a huge obstacle for Mayo.
It’s harder to figure how they would do v Kerry. The narrative around Kerry has changed a lot since their win v Cork, they have gone from being an inexperienced rebuilding team to AI contenders based on that one result.
I’m personally believe that Mayo would beat Kerry in a possible SF.

So that puts Mayo in an AI final, and it’s hard to know if they are any better or any worse than 2013 when they get there.

If they do not win in 2014 then I fully expect them to be also rans in 2015.

That talk bugs me. People said it last year before the final with Dublin, last chance saloon and all that jazz. Its nonsense. Under Horan Mayo have proven (yes proven) they're an incredibly hard working and consistent side. The final in 2012 didn't change that, the final in 2013 didn't change that but somehow a final in 2014 will? What is it third strike and you're out?

If Horan were to leave you may have a point but if he stays they'll be consistent again next year.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Fact. Talked to several Galway supporters who have stated that, in comparison to Mayo, Galway teams are always well able for Croker, despite the fact that their team hasn't won a championship game in Croker since 01.

Yes but that completely ignores the quality of both teams. Galway have generally always turned out a very good performance in Croker in comparison to what would be an expected from them, the case in point being last year's game vs Cork, where no one gave us a prayer beforehand. Mayo, although I don't agree with the commonly held view - at all, are seen to have "choked" on the big day.

keane2097

THFC wrote: »

Yes but that completely ignores the quality of both teams. Galway have generally always turned out a very good performance in Croker in comparison to what would be an expected from them, the case in point being last year's game vs Cork, where no one gave us a prayer beforehand. Mayo, although I don't agree with the commonly held view - at all, are seen to have "choked" on the big day.

Seems again to fall into the trap that the only "big days" Mayo ever have are the days they lose. Galway played well in losing to Cork and because they are crap that's somehow more creditable than destroying the reigning All Ireland Champions, comfortably disposing of a Tyrone team that started like Tasmanian Devils and losing by a whisker to a team people in this very thread have described (and not without a leg to stand on) as the greatest football team of all time in Croke Park.

intellectual dosser

corny wrote: »

That talk bugs me. People said it last year before the final with Dublin, last chance saloon and all that jazz. Its nonsense. Under Horan Mayo have proven (yes proven) they're an incredibly hard working and consistent side. The final in 2012 didn't change that, the final in 2013 didn't change that but somehow a final in 2014 will? What is it third strike and you're out?

If Horan were to leave you may have a point but if he stays they'll be consistent again next year.

I think you're right, Horan has brought that team a long way and gotten them performing consistently at a September level, but while your post makes one think another manager would have a negative impact on Mayo, could another manager potentially get them over the line to the Holy Grail?

Nidgeweasel

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I think you're right, Horan has brought that team a long way and gotten them performing consistently at a September level, but while your post makes one think another manager would have a negative impact on Mayo, could another manager potentially get them over the line to the Holy Grail?

Tough one.

Could possibly suggest with those players and another manager would they get better but it's hard to see it. He seems to have squeezed every drop from them at various stages over the past 3/4 years.

A big thing in Mayo's favour at the minute is Connacht is a very, very poor so they can time their preparation to peak for the quarter finals.

The only thing I'll say re: Horan is that though he seems to be a for want of a better word, a drip. Bores the arse of me!

Syferus

Squatman wrote: »

I pretty sure Freeman was battling some sort of flu/****s in the lead up to last years final, and probably shouldnt have even started. Gifted player, and probably should have stayed on for a few mins, but i think its admiral that Horan has enough respect for his players to throw in the towel and prevent injuries.

The simple fact is, a team is made of a number of player. Mayo used to put all the ball thru Ciaran Mcdonald, and if he had an off day, the whole team suffered. Now Horan is working on a team of players capable of working together, where no one man is dominant. there is no "1" in team... (the is a "me" but thats besides the point.

Lololol at the flu storyline.

Martin Carney telling porkies on air and nothing more is the only reason anyone still thinks that.

RoscommonTom

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Tough one.

Could possibly suggest with those players and another manager would they get better but it's hard to see it. He seems to have squeezed every drop from them at various stages over the past 3/4 years.

A big thing in Mayo's favour at the minute is Connacht is a very, very poor so they can time their preparation to peak for the quarter finals.

Christ almighty leinster is worse than connacht and Munster is no better, I'm sick of hearing this rubbish every year, ulster is the only one what is competitive any more, theres one team worth a **** in leinster and 2 in munster

Nidgeweasel

RoscommonTom wrote: »

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Tough one.

Could possibly suggest with those players and another manager would they get better but it's hard to see it. He seems to have squeezed every drop from them at various stages over the past 3/4 years.

A big thing in Mayo's favour at the minute is Connacht is a very, very poor so they can time their preparation to peak for the quarter finals.

Christ almighty leinster is worse than connacht and Munster is no better, I'm sick of hearing this rubbish every year, ulster is the only one what is competitive any more, theres one team worth a **** in leinster and 2 in munster

Did I say the others were not? I'm saying that given the lack of competition on Connaught they can pretty much guarantee they'll be in the AI series, more than likely having won their province. Which is true.

corny

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I think you're right, Horan has brought that team a long way and gotten them performing consistently at a September level, but while your post makes one think another manager would have a negative impact on Mayo, could another manager potentially get them over the line to the Holy Grail?

He could of course. I'm reminded of what Gilroy did for Dublin. He laid a lot of the groundwork for what Gavin has and is achieving at the minute. Horans successor could have the same impact. I'm a big admirer of James Horan though and i'm sure he's not a dime a dozen.

aveytare

Moneymaker wrote: »

Funny, I seem to remember Mayo getting up to all kinds of nonsense in the 2012 semi when they were hanging on towards the end.

Swings and roundabouts.

Weirdly enough this was one of my recommended videos on youtube today (the last ten minutes of the Dublin v Mayo semi-final) and there wasn't that much cynical fouling. I'm neutral so don't have any axe to grind; I was just surprised because I remember Brolly going on about Mayo systematically targeting Dublin which to my eyes doesn't really seem like the case. Definitely not among the worst I've seen anyway.

RoscommonTom

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

RoscommonTom wrote: »

Did I say the others were not? I'm saying that given the lack of competition on Connaught they can pretty much guarantee they'll be in the AI series, more than likely having won their province. Which is true.

You can say the same about the jacks though

Fr Tod Umptious

corny wrote: »

That talk bugs me. People said it last year before the final with Dublin, last chance saloon and all that jazz. Its nonsense. Under Horan Mayo have proven (yes proven) they're an incredibly hard working and consistent side. The final in 2012 didn't change that, the final in 2013 didn't change that but somehow a final in 2014 will? What is it third strike and you're out?

If Horan were to leave you may have a point but if he stays they'll be consistent again next year.

But there is only so much to can ask of guys, and getting to finals and not winning hastens the day that guys will just have to take a break, same goes for the management team.

The only team that I can think of that kept coming back and back were Cork 05 to 10.
They lost 3 Semi Finals and 2 Finals, all to Kerry if I'm not mistaken, before they won one.

And in the one they won they did not face Kerry at all in the AI series, and in the final beat a team no one expected to be in the final.

I'm not sure how different the 10 was from the 05 team however.

Nidgeweasel

RoscommonTom wrote: »

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

You can say the same about the jacks though

Absolutely. Expect we weren't talking about Dublin. We were talking about Mayo at this moment in time, and that is a big plus for them.

corny

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But there is only so much to can ask of guys, and getting to finals and not winning hastens the day that guys will just have to take a break, same goes for the management team.

Again i find that ridiculous logic especially given what i know of this Mayo team. You lose a game so you give up? These lads wouldn't be playing in All Ireland finals if they were made like that.

It might become a problem getting over the line but no way will they become also rans under Horan.

naughto

corny wrote: »

Again i find that ridiculous logic especially given what i know of this Mayo team. You lose a game so you give up? These lads wouldn't be playing in All Ireland finals if they were made like that.

It might become a problem getting over the line but no way will they become also rans under Horan.

I don't think horan will be there next yr even if we do manage to win the holy grail.even if he did go an we get some one new in id expect us to win connaught again next yr

The games on sky to night is pissing me off no end

seligehgit

corny wrote: »

Again i find that ridiculous logic especially given what i know of this Mayo team. You lose a game so you give up? These lads wouldn't be playing in All Ireland finals if they were made like that.

It might become a problem getting over the line but no way will they become also rans under Horan.

I rate James Horan very highly but it is a valid point to possibly question whither he's in a similiar position to Pat Gilroy...laid to the groundwork for the next man to make the final push.All teams have a normal cycle and physical/mental fatigue can take their toll after a number of long years on the road.Most especially in the context of further All Ireland defeats for Mayo.

He's not flawless,it certainly appears that he instills a great loyalty from within his squad but is not a man to be crossed.That can be a good thing but some lads for no particular reason appear to fall out of favour...no apparent loss of form.

He is quite a conservative coach in terms of his personnel,his loyalty has meant that he failed to axe players post the 2012 All Ireland defeat that were not likely to improve(no more than squad players) and provide the scores required to achieve the ultimate goal.Maybe the players are simply not there or not given sufficient opportunities?His shifting of Keith Higgins into the forwards last year was a tacit acknowledgement of where we need to get that extra couple of percent to win the All Ireland.However we were robbing Peter to pay Paul as it panned out when Tom Cunniffe went off and we had Dublin on the back foot in the last 10 minutes.Tactically he has made errors in the All Irelands.To this day I can't for the life of me understand why Alan Freeman was taken off last September when he was making life difficult for Rory O Carroll...flu or no flu:)

He has been refreshing in his approach this year,more open to experimentation new faces but we reverted back to the same faces in the forwards for the Connacht final.Really hoping the Aidan O Shea experiment works....

Fr Tod Umptious

naughto wrote: »

I don't think horan will be there next yr even if we do manage to win the holy grail.even if he did go an we get some one new in id expect us to win connaught again next yr

The games on sky to night is pissing me off no end

Why ?
Prior to this season only one Rnd 4 qualifier was on TV.

Now all 4 are, so there is more coverage than ever before

Fr Tod Umptious

corny wrote: »

Again i find that ridiculous logic especially given what i know of this Mayo team. You lose a game so you give up? These lads wouldn't be playing in All Ireland finals if they were made like that.

It might become a problem getting over the line but no way will they become also rans under Horan.

Its not about just losing 'a game' and giving up.
Its about losing multiple All Ireland finals in a row.
At some point the body and mind needs to take a break, and at some point the player wonders if its all worth the effort.

legendary.xix

Going by the odds, Cork should be through to take on Mayo in the quarter-finals. Kerry's opponent is harder to gauge. Tipperary up and coming, Galway will want to show there's substance behind a possible revival. It should be an intriguing game.

naughto

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Why ?
Prior to this season only one Rnd 4 qualifier was on TV.

Now all 4 are, so there is more coverage than ever before

There is at a price that I will not pay,how many games will sky get next yr,any ways there is plenty of streams on line.the Sligo vrs cork game was piss poor

Boom__Boom

naughto wrote: »

There is at a price that I will not pay,how many games will sky get next yr,any ways there is plenty of streams on line.the Sligo vrs cork game was piss poor

Sky will get the same amount of games next year and the year after as they got this year - tis a 3 year deal.

RoscommonTom

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Sky will get the same amount of games next year and the year after as they got this year - tis a 3 year deal.

Is it true that theyll be getting better games next year, like more Sunday ones and maybe even semifinals

ArmaniJeanss

RoscommonTom wrote: »

Is it true that theyll be getting better games next year, like more Sunday ones and maybe even semifinals

They have all the semi finals and All Ireland final already, as part of this deal.

RoscommonTom

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

They have all the semi finals and All Ireland final already, as part of this deal.

I hadnt heard that thanks

Boom__Boom

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

They have all the semi finals and All Ireland final already, as part of this deal.

RTE will have these as well though.

Boom__Boom

10 teams left - 5 from Division 1 and 5 from Division 2

Fr Tod Umptious

naughto wrote: »

There is at a price that I will not pay,how many games will sky get next yr,any ways there is plenty of streams on line.the Sligo vrs cork game was piss poor

You are aware that the reason for all those streams is because of the games being on Sky ?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

keane2097 wrote: »

Seems again to fall into the trap that the only "big days" Mayo ever have are the days they lose. Galway played well in losing to Cork and because they are crap that's somehow more creditable than destroying the reigning All Ireland Champions, comfortably disposing of a Tyrone team that started like Tasmanian Devils and losing by a whisker to a team people in this very thread have described (and not without a leg to stand on) as the greatest football team of all time in Croke Park.

Yes, and if you want me to state it again just in case you missed it the first time - I do NOT agree with that commonly held opinion. I argued this on here last year also..

legendary.xix

Too many instances popping up of refs not giving a black card when necessary. Are too many refs not brave enough?

harpsman

Squatman wrote: »

Yea, Dublin look a bit upstopable, but no everything can be predicted. I would'nt be at all surprised if sligo beat Cork. I think if its the cork that turned up against kerry, then sligo can take it.
We have to keep in mind too that Kerry only just beat Clare before the cork match. and I never remember Clare being a football stronghold. Plus iirc clare had a man sent off...

Meh-in '11 Mayo were lucky to beat London, the following year they only scraped past Sligo in a terrible game, this year they only beat Roscommon by a point, and they went on to do fairly well in the championship of those years. In 09 Kerry should have been beaten at home by Sligo and went on to win AI, absolutely destroying dublin on the way.Point is dont read too much into early season games,particularly away from home, they dont mean much, lots of examples of teams scraping past "minnows" early on and going on to do very well.

BTW Clare are a decent enough outfit-probably should be playin Monaghan next week for a place in qf

harpsman

Hibbeler wrote: »

Yeah I was only nine or ten at the time in 01 but I can still remember everyone thinking the final was a foregone conclusion and there was no way we could lose.

Yes people are talking about monaghan or donegal being able to stop the dubs but I'm not so sure about that either. Fact is neither are really that much better than meath and look what happened us last weekend. The only difference being meath set up to play Dublin and got annihilated. Monaghan/Donegal will try to foil Dublin and make it hard for them but ultimately won't be good enough.

Well Donegal were all ireland champions less than 2 years ago so I think they could claim to be a good bit better than Meath. Sure, they might be well short of the level they were at in '12 but who knows-they might get closer to that level as the season goes on.

Having said that if we do meet dublin I think we have virtually no chance of beating them and would do pretty well to be close with 15 minutes to go.

harpsman

corny wrote: »

That talk bugs me. People said it last year before the final with Dublin, last chance saloon and all that jazz. Its nonsense. Under Horan Mayo have proven (yes proven) they're an incredibly hard working and consistent side. The final in 2012 didn't change that, the final in 2013 didn't change that but somehow a final in 2014 will? What is it third strike and you're out?

If Horan were to leave you may have a point but if he stays they'll be consistent again next year.

Why does it bug you so much?- sport tends to go in cycles where a team comes along, does well for a few years and then go off the boil as another team comes along and surpasses them. This is particularly true in a sport like gaeic football, where amateur teams have to put a huge level of committment in to reach and stay at the top. Now some teams do stay at the top longer than others but these teams are usually 1)exceptional- eg Kerry 04-09 or 2)have an assembly line of new young players to replace older or out of form players,or 3) both the above like Kilkenny 00- .

I wouldnt have Mayo in either of these categories. Now given that they have a handy path to qf they may well be near the top for another while, but its possible that they may not, hence I cant see why this opinion "bugs" you so much.

harpsman

aveytare wrote: »

Weirdly enough this was one of my recommended videos on youtube today (the last ten minutes of the Dublin v Mayo semi-final) and there wasn't that much cynical fouling. I'm neutral so don't have any axe to grind; I was just surprised because I remember Brolly going on about Mayo systematically targeting Dublin which to my eyes doesn't really seem like the case. Definitely not among the worst I've seen anyway.

Ah now there were alot of fouls that would warrant a black card today in the last 10 of that game.

harpsman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But there is only so much to can ask of guys, and getting to finals and not winning hastens the day that guys will just have to take a break, same goes for the management team.

The only team that I can think of that kept coming back and back were Cork 05 to 10.
They lost 3 Semi Finals and 2 Finals, all to Kerry if I'm not mistaken, before they won one.

And in the one they won they did not face Kerry at all in the AI series, and in the final beat a team no one expected to be in the final.

I'm not sure how different the 10 was from the 05 team however.

Suppose Dublin 02-05, and like cork when they did get there they fell over the line against a poor side. Also like Cork, people thought they would go on to dominate for a few years but both teams completely fell away and never came close to winning another all ireland.

Syferus

harpsman wrote: »

Suppose Dublin 02-05, and like cork when they did get there they fell over the line against a poor side. Also like Cork, people thought they would go on to dominate for a few years but both teams completely fell away and never came close to winning another all ireland.

Anyone who thought a team managed by Conor Counihan would dominate should be shot from a canon for crimes against common sense.

harpsman

Syferus wrote: »

Anyone who thought a team managed by Conor Counihan would dominate should be shot from a canon for crimes against common sense.

Well lots of people did, and I was at the league final in 2011 when they outscored Dublin by 11 points to 2 in the last 20 minutes-was a very impressive display. Think its a bit wise after the event to say " Anyone who thought a team managed by Conor Counihan would dominate should be shot from a canon for crimes againstcommon sense" now.

legendary.xix

Mayo surprised Cork 3 years ago. Mayo then bowed out to Kerry in a semi-final but showed they would be competing for All-Irelands. Mayo v Cork quarter-final will be interesting. Expectation on Mayo to make the final Cork are in a position to get revenge. Kerry and Galway had a high scoring shootout in 08. Quarter-finals can be a struggle for Munster winners due to the gap. It seems a more clearer game to call but you never know though. The favourites don't always win. In saying that, Kerry should be able to deal with the challenge.

Syferus

harpsman wrote: »

Well lots of people did, and I was at the league final in 2011 when they outscored Dublin by 11 points to 2 in the last 20 minutes-was a very impressive display. Think its a bit wise after the event to say " Anyone who thought a team managed by Conor Counihan would dominate should be shot from a canon for crimes againstcommon sense" now.

I was saying it back then too. Even the manner of their sole AI win and the team's age profile then told you they weren't going to 'dominate'.

harpsman

Syferus wrote: »

I was saying it back then too. Even the manner of their sole AI win and the team's age profile then told you they weren't going to 'dominate'.

Well good for you-i never said you thought they would dominate:) In fairness dominate probably the wrong word,should have said be contending for a few years, whereas in reality theyve been well off the pace since. Age profile wasnt bad-lots of good young forwards, and Aidan Walsh.

Nidgeweasel

harpsman wrote: »

Well good for you-i never said you thought they would dominate:) In fairness dominate probably the wrong word,should have said be contending for a few years, whereas in reality theyve been well off the pace since. Age profile wasnt bad-lots of good young forwards, and Aidan Walsh.

Walsh has been a massive let down for me in recent years. Doesn't seem to have kicked on.

Nidgeweasel

harpsman wrote: »

Well good for you-i never said you thought they would dominate:) In fairness dominate probably the wrong word,should have said be contending for a few years, whereas in reality theyve been well off the pace since. Age profile wasnt bad-lots of good young forwards, and Aidan Walsh.

Walsh has been a massive let down for me in recent years. Doesn't seem to have kicked on.