Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

coolisin

^^^ This

TouchingVirus

Second tough day out in a row for hurling, what a bitter note to end the year on We desperately need an injection of fresh blood and I don't think Daly will commit next year; he owes us nothing so whatever his choice I wish him all the best.

Moneymaker

That was such a disappointment.

If Liam Rushe wasn't playing we could have lost by 30.

I think we've gone as far as we can under Daly. Time for someone with fresh ideas.

He talked a big game all week and imo the players didn't respond. Tipp won 90% of the breaking balls around the middle of the field.

DoctaDee

Disappointing end to the year for all concerned. I think it was fairly evident that there were a few pieces of the jigsaw missing from last year - I don't profess to know a lot about the ins and outs of the senior panel set up .. but the exclusion of Dotsy & Joey B from the start today didn't augur well

corny

DoctaDee wrote: »

Disappointing end to the year for all concerned. I think it was fairly evident that there were a few pieces of the jigsaw missing from last year - I don't profess to know a lot about the ins and outs of the senior panel set up .. but the exclusion of Dotsy & Joey B from the start today didn't augur well

Keaneys attitude was telling. Dived, stropped and fouled his man every time he gave away possession. Completely out of character for a normally totally honest player.

Something not right in the camp perhaps.

Moneymaker

Keaney didn't look right from the first whistle. Attitude and even his conditioning seemed off to me.

He was left running through treacle by Bonnar Maher at one stage.

Past30Now

It was a pretty horrible game. Not one Dublin player will be satisfied with his performance. Our handling was very poor. Unfortunately it looks like Daly will finish up, and it's possible that a few of the lads lining out yesterday are reaching the end of the road too.

Moneymaker

I thought Liam Rushe had an excellent game in fairness. He was the only one pretty much.

DoctaDee

Past30Now wrote: »

It was a pretty horrible game. Not one Dublin player will be satisfied with his performance. Our handling was very poor. Unfortunately it looks like Daly will finish up, and it's possible that a few of the lads lining out yesterday are reaching the end of the road too.

Yeah I thought the quality of the stick work left a lot to be desired. There are times watching the hurlers that yer reminded of an U12 game with the initial inability to control the sliothar leading to a mass of players scurrying around trying to pick it up.

I remarked a couple of years ago (similar to yourself in the match thread ), the warm up routine of the hurlers seems to involve a lot of intricate patterns and lung bursting sprints without the sliotar, I'd contrasted that with KK down at the Davin end line soloing out to the 21 and pucking back to the next lad, lots of stick work.

Unlike other counties I don't think we will rush to judgement on either Daly or the players, with the best will in the world I don't think we're currently disposed to match the the teams at the top table consistently. Desire, hard work and Daly's undoubted management has got the team so far and was best played out last year in the Leinster Final and against Cork where the mix of athleticism and no shortage of skill brought them close to an AI final, and even in saying that, it was evident (at least to me), that Cork possessed the better hurlers.

I'd count the NHL win over KK, as one of the top 5 occassions I've experieneced in Croker (along with Westlifes farewell tour ), but seriously I'm delighted that we've had our time in the sun with the hurlers and it'll come again no doubt. We've had lads rewarded with All Stars on merit rather than charity cases.

The uneasy alliance with the footballers I think will continue to work against them, with dual code players no longer a feasible option and most for the present time will plumb with the footballers. From a hurling perspective if a new man comes in I'd like to see a more technical approach with a greater focus on their skills, we may have to step back to go forward but I'm sure they'll come again. Ta

aidan24326

It's a certainty that Daly will go, he has done what he can with this team but this year was a step backwards and a new man is needed to drive things on again. Last year was the one that got away though.

I think Dublin hurling is at a bit of a crossroads now, years of progress has got Dublin to a certain level but they haven't been able to push on from that and these 2 hammerings leave Dublin back at square one in terms of really challenging the big guns.

Past30Now

DoctaDee wrote: »

Yeah I thought the quality of the stick work left a lot to be desired. There are times watching the hurlers that yer reminded of an U12 game with the initial inability to control the sliothar leading to a mass of players scurrying around trying to pick it up.

The under 12 team I'm involved with are taking offence at your comparison.:D

DoctaDee wrote: »

The uneasy alliance with the footballers I think will continue to work against them, with dual code players no longer a feasible option and most for the present time will plumb with the footballers. From a hurling perspective if a new man comes in I'd like to see a more technical approach with a greater focus on their skills, we may have to step back to go forward but I'm sure they'll come again. Ta

Someone made the point that most of the quality forwards from the minor teams of 2011 and 2012 are solely dedicated to football now. Kilkenny and Costello in particular are big losses to the hurlers. Hopefully these guys will rejoin the hurling panel in the next year or two.

DoctaDee

Past30Now wrote: »

The under 12 team I'm involved with are taking offence at your comparison.:D


Someone made the point that most of the quality forwards from the minor teams of 2011 and 2012 are solely dedicated to football now. Kilkenny and Costello in particular are big losses to the hurlers. Hopefully these guys will rejoin the hurling panel in the next year or two.

LOL... Yer dealing with prima donnas !

I thought your man CK was more influential in the minor hurling set up than football. He seemed more at ease as a play maker with the hurlers than an out and out point scorer with the footballers. Costello and to a lesser extent Lowndes added more to the footballers

Oasis_Dublin

That's the thing, going forward. How can the hurlers hope to progress if Costello, Kilkenny, Brady, Lowndes, and other talented younger players decide to join the football panel? There just isn't the same level of talent at underage hurling as there is at underage football, and the hurlers already can't afford to lose players.

You'd imagine Daly will step aside, but he has nothing to be ashamed of. Look at Dublin in the three years before he came in. Knocked out of Leinster twice by Wexford, and once by Westmeath. Who comes in? Would Nicky English do it? He's been involved at underage with a couple of squads.

DoctaDee

I'm sure the likes of young Conor McHugh with Na Fianna will be caught in the same bind shortly too he'll more than likely opt to stay with footballers

Moneymaker

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

That's the thing, going forward. How can the hurlers hope to progress if Costello, Kilkenny, Brady, Lowndes, and other talented younger players decide to join the football panel? There just isn't the same level of talent at underage hurling as there is at underage football, and the hurlers already can't afford to lose players.

You'd imagine Daly will step aside, but he has nothing to be ashamed of. Look at Dublin in the three years before he came in. Knocked out of Leinster twice by Wexford, and once by Westmeath. Who comes in? Would Nicky English do it? He's been involved at underage with a couple of squads.

tippgunner mentioned Donal O'Grady and I think he's the perfect choice.

Oasis_Dublin

He might well be. Daly going to Galway it seems.

Onto that game we're good at then (!), what's the story with tickets? I see upper Cusack are for sale over on tickets.ie. Has anyone bought tickets yet? I'm looking for central* in the upper tier, but I'm not sure if they are working from right to left, or from the outside/in. Anyone got anything more central than 702?

*By central I mean 704-707, or 730-733

FIFA2004

does anyone know if you can get the student/oap refund on the way in with the quarter final/semi final ticket package that's on sale on tickets.ie?

thanks!

Slattsy

Monaghan next.
Fully expect us to win comfortably.

They'll play puke football similar to how Donegal will, if we meet them in the semi, so it will probably be decent preparation for that.

I wanted Kildare to win but in hindsight Monaghan will be a tougher test. Maybe.

TouchingVirus

By a twist of fate I was there tonight watching both games. Monaghan have some grit, definitely dug in after a bad first half. I'm expecting a win but so would every Dublin supporter. I think they'll be a very good test though which will either ruin us or show us areas to improve on if we make it to the semis

LostBoy101

Cody on Dublin.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/brian-cody-defends-dublin-hurlers-1.1883996

I feel the criticism is unfair to the hurlers.

corny

Slattsy wrote: »

Monaghan next.
Fully expect us to win comfortably.

They'll play puke football similar to how Donegal will, if we meet them in the semi, so it will probably be decent preparation for that.

I wanted Kildare to win but in hindsight Monaghan will be a tougher test. Maybe.

They're only chance is try and play football against Dublin. A repeat of what they tried in the Ulster final will see Dublin destroy them. They have some fine footballers so they really should be looking to play.

Either way i'd be very surprised if they got too close to Dublin. They lack real mobility and Dublin showed against Meath how that goes.

TheGoldenAges

PP have us at a 9 point handicap, think it'll be slightly closer but we'll win anyway.

Moneymaker

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

PP have us at a 9 point handicap, think it'll be slightly closer but we'll win anyway.

I think it's not far off.

Deck is heavily stacked in our favour considering the conditions and extra time Monaghan had to endure. Be a hell of an ask for them to keep up with us. They are still a strong outfit and we should treat them with the respect they deserve. No room for complacency.

I want to see a better performance from Connolly though. He's dropped off alarmingly since the Club final and League when he looked the best footballer in the country.

Paranoid Mandroid

Moneymaker wrote: »

Deck is heavily stacked in our favour considering the conditions and extra time Monaghan had to endure. Be a hell of an ask for them to keep up with us.

I don't mean this to sound cocky but I don't think any team in the country could keep up with Dublin having played in those conditions and extra time a week beforehand. Surely there will be serious tired legs there. A massive disadvantage for any team.

Slattsy

Too much being made about extra time?

At the end of the day these guys have a full week to recover. A week.

I don't think it'll be an excuse IMHO.

Grudaire

Slattsy wrote: »

At the end of the day these guys have a full week to recover. A week.

A week in work.

And it's 50% recovery, 50% preparation for the game against Dublin. It's not an easy task.

Dubliner28

Paranoid Mandroid wrote: »

I don't mean this to sound cocky but I don't think any team in the country could keep up with Dublin having played in those conditions and extra time a week beforehand. Surely there will be serious tired legs there. A massive disadvantage for any team.

It might/could be a factor come 55-70 mins. If its a close game then this is when i expect to see Dubs pull away. If Monaghan start slowly and we get an early goal heads could drop and we could be comfortable come 25-30mins.

Agree with previous poster Connolly needs to step up to the plate. Possible captain in waiting(along with Flynner). Awful the last day but can hit 5-6 from play on his day.

No word on any injuries so cant see many changes. Maybe Jack in for K.Nolan?

DoctaDee

Dubliner28 wrote: »

...........No word on any injuries so cant see many changes. Maybe Jack in for K.Nolan?

Jack Mc started last day, only change I'd see is Johnny Cooper back in for Mick Fitzsimons - he could feel a little hard done by as he had a very good game last time out.

The secret Saturday will be pace from the back, so McCaffrey, Devereux & McCarthy will be the likely starters. The only other change I'd possibly see would be O'Gara in for Mannion, depending if the match up is on Drew Wylie as I think Wylie would be too strong for Mannion at full forward.

Moneymaker

I think O'Gara and Mick did enough to keep their places tbh.

DoctaDee

Moneymaker wrote: »

I think O'Gara and Mick did enough to keep their places tbh.

So no Cooper then ? ... personally I think Cooper has been brilliant this year, and would be one of the 1st 3 names on my team sheet - his absence wasn't missed last time out against Meath but the lad is class

Slattsy

I'd have Cooper straight back in to be honest.

Past30Now

DoctaDee wrote: »

Jack Mc started last day, only change I'd see is Johnny Cooper back in for Mick Fitzsimons - he could feel a little hard done by as he had a very good game last time out.

The secret Saturday will be pace from the back, so McCaffrey, Devereux & McCarthy will be the likely starters. The only other change I'd possibly see would be O'Gara in for Mannion, depending if the match up is on Drew Wylie as I think Wylie would be too strong for Mannion at full forward.

I'd agree and welcome those two changes, but I have a feeling that MickFitz will play. He had a great game against Meath and might be required for a man marking job. Johnny might have to settle for a place on the bench or possibly replace Jack or Philly, on the basis of limiting the number of attacking backs on the pitch. Just a theory, but we'll see on Saturday.

I very worried about this match, mainly because nobody can see how Monaghan can beat us. That level of confidence in the Dublin team has traditionally backfired. Monaghan should be knackered from the match and extra time last Saturday,their midfielders shouldn't be able to live with our midfielders in terms of movement and possession, the two/three extra backs we have should mean that they find it very difficult to get a score. The most they should get is 1-10 to 1-13. Our forwards are in great form, the bench is the best in the country. yada yada yada.

This weekend has the potential to be an absolute sickener for Dublin. These lads got to their league final and were promoted, they won the Ulster Championship a couple of years ago and reached the final again this year. They are listening to every radio programme and commentator wondering whether they can stay level with Dublin for the first fifteen minutes or for the whole of the first half. They are going to give a huge performance on Saturday.

We need a big performance from each and every player on Saturday. The likes of Connolly and McCarthy need to step up. We are not going to win this match as easily as we beat Meath. It will be tight with fifteen minutes to go. I don't want to be saying I told you so next Monday. I want to be looking forward to a semi final on 31 August (against Armagh:D).

corny

Cooper first name on the team sheet for me if fit. However, he had a soft tissue injury so it wouldn't surprise me if they play it safe and he doesn't start this week.

Mikey Fitz or McMahon would be the call if i was naming the team. Fitzsimons is a better man marker and really upped his game against Meath. McMahon offers more out the field. I've been critical of McMahon all season but i thought he had a super game last time out too so he deserves to hold his place.

The options Gavin has are ridiculous when compared to other teams in the country.

DoctaDee

corny wrote: »

Cooper first name on the team sheet for me if fit. However, he had a soft tissue injury so it wouldn't surprise me if they play it safe and he doesn't start this week.

Mikey Fitz or McMahon would be the call if i was naming the team. Fitzsimons is a better man marker and really upped his game against Meath. McMahon offers more out the field. I've been critical of McMahon all season but i thought he had a super game last time out too so he deserves to hold his place.

The options Gavin has are ridiculous when compared to other teams in the country.

Yeah this sorta ties in with Past30Now's post above too. Monaghan last day out were kept in the game 1st half to the main part by McManus' frees. From the comfort of my armchair I'd have to say that Ollie Lyons did a very good job on McManus and thought that some of those frees were easily won. I'll assume that ROC will look after Hughes, so the marking of McManus will require a disclpined effort so that's maybe making a bigger case for Mick Fitz than Philly - couple that with Philly reputation and the fact Marty Duffy is whistling .. I'd play it safe

Moneymaker

Yeah fair enough on Cooper, it's unfortunate though that a lad that did nothing wrong(played very well infact) will likely lose his place.

ProudDUB

If he is fit, I think Cooper gets his jersey back no bother. If he had been out for a long time and another player or players really laid down a marker in several games, then yeah, he might have something to worry about. But as he was only out the one game, I imagine he'll get it back. He has been consistently too good a player all year long, not to.

sgarvan

I think Fitzy will start in Coopers position again to do a man marking job on McManus. Unfortunate on Cooper as I agree he has had a super season but them are the breaks in football.

I also think Mannion will drop out in place of O'Gara or Rock. I feel it may be Rock more so for his long range shooting ability against a blanket defence. And then when some steel is need EOG will come in.

Rest of the team will remain the same.

Slattsy

I agree, i think Rock will be absolutely crucial against the puke football that Donegal will play.

Anyone else a bit disappointed by Mannion this year?

ProudDUB

Good points on Rock and his long range ability.

I can see Paddy Andrews (if fit) and O'Gara starting, or if not starting, getting a lot of game time. It will be a war of attrition getting balls into the full forward line. They are both very, very good at winning dirty ball with three lads dragging out of them & and hanging onto it, long enough to draw the foul, or to lay it off to someone in a better position. As talented as Costello and Mannion are, I am not sure if they bring that to the table in a game like this.

corny

Slattsy wrote: »

I agree, i think Rock will be absolutely crucial against the puke football that Donegal will play.

Anyone else a bit disappointed by Mannion this year?

Yeah me too. Looks nervous and unsure of himself in possession of the ball.

This is going to sound very harsh but i was never fully convinced by him, at least not yet (he is very young after all).

For my money Costello is a better player and i'd fancy Rock and Andrews would have a much greater influence on a game against the better teams.

salmocab

I heard thru the wonders of the grapevine that Mannion wasn't told till just before the Leinster final that he was starting as they wanted him to relax the night before. Could be B.S. of course but I was told this before the game so before the change was made.

Past30Now

I'd agree with the point made by Corny that Costello offers more,and is a better player. I'd also agree that Mannion hasn't been brilliant thus far this year, but for example in the first half against Meath, any time he received possession, I don't recall him wasting the ball. At no point was he uber dynamic with the ball but he was neat and tidy in possession, and made himself available throughout that half.

The point about the physical strength of Andrews and O'Gara together with the long range shooting of Rock is well made, and you could see Gavin making changes to the forward line on that basis. However it is likely that he will stick with the bulk of the forward line that started against Meath. The Brogans and Flynn are certainties. Both Connolly and Macker are almost as certain. That leaves Mannions place as the last seat at the table available. I don't imagine he'll start Costello as he's still quite young and probably more effective coming on against a tiring defence. O'Gara seems the obvious choice to me but Andrews and Mannion will push him close. Rock didn't play particularly well when he started the game against Wexford and I don't think he'll start.

AGC

salmocab wrote: »

I heard thru the wonders of the grapevine that Mannion wasn't told till just before the Leinster final that he was starting as they wanted him to relax the night before. Could be B.S. of course but I was told this before the game so before the change was made.

Yeah the morning of it I believe

Oasis_Dublin

Mannion hasn't been as good this year as he was last year, but it's completely unfair to suggest that he isn't up to the level.

His goal against Kerry last year, when Dublin had just conceded their second, was arguably the most important score we got in the Championship last season. Had it dropped short and been cleared, it would have been a horrible blow.

He's still looking dangerous this year, getting in position, winning ball. He just needs to be more efficient with his scoring. And when he reaches that potential, good luck to whoever we are playing against.

corny

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Mannion hasn't been as good this year as he was last year, but it's completely unfair to suggest that he isn't up to the level.

His goal against Kerry last year, when Dublin had just conceded their second, was arguably the most important score we got in the Championship last season. Had it dropped short and been cleared, it would have been a horrible blow.

He's still looking dangerous this year, getting in position, winning ball. He just needs to be more efficient with his scoring. And when he reaches that potential, good luck to whoever we are playing against.

In the context of Dublin and whats required to make this team I think its absolutely fair comment.

That goal was very important and he finished it well but it was opportunistic. Bar the goal he didn't score from the QF on and imo he looked out of his depth against a decent marker. Wasn't just the scoring that let him down either. Couldn't get himself on the ball in the latter stages.

He had a great game against Mickey Burke in the Leinster final last year but after that he had little impact if you look at it objectively.

Not trying to knock the lad mind you. Very few players would excel when thrown in at the deep end so young. I'm sure his time will come, i just don't believe its now.

nxbyveromdwjpg

copacetic

Sae the team there on twitter alright. Surprising to see the change that got cooper back in the side. Thought possibly Kevin Nolan would be back and McCaffrey would keep his place. Nick Devereux has been doing well at centre back and I'd have left him there to cover counter attacks. More suited to it than cooper and better fielder.

Having said all that, will be no surprise to see 2 changes at the back and up to 3 up front before throw in.

corny

Yeah probably a dummy team. Makes no sense to move Devereux. Why not just play Cooper at 7.

A Brogan and Kev Mc will probably swap too.

Assuming he does start, pleased for Mickey Fitz.

sgarvan

Can't see that team starting. I would think 2 changes to it.

Dubliner28

Agree, cant see Cooper starting at 6. Id say Nicky D to 6 and K.Nolan in @ 7.
Keeping McCafferys pace for the second half as Monaghan legs tire. Get nervous now, not because I think we'll lose just feel it will be closer that everyone thinks,
If its a wet wet day it will even things out and it will be slog fest and could get dirty and scrappy.

Dublin to pull away in the last 15 to win by 7-9