Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

ProudDUB

smileyj1987 wrote: »

He does offer a tank of a player who is hard to knock off the ball but he doesn't seem to offer very much else !
I would be using him as a sub and that's about it.

I wouldn't be too quick to discount what he brings to the table, in terms of winning dirty ball. Not all of the forwards are willing or able to do. I've no complaints with BB, Dermo & Flynn in that regard, but Rock and Costello don't even attempt to do it & Kev Mc seems to get called a lot for over carrying when he tries to do it. The champo may be different, but in this years O'Byrne Cup and 3 league games, that's what I've seen. I'd be reluctant to discard that aspect of his game, unless we know for sure we have it covered else where. It is something that Paddy Andrews did very well & to great effect when he was fully fit back in 2013.

Nidgeweasel

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

O'Gara should be nowhere near the starting lineup for me.

I have to be honest here, I think the guy is ****e.

Purely from an opposition stand point I like to see him lining out against us.

keane2097

This time last year O'Gara was one of the form players in Division 1 IIRC. He seems to have regressed badly over the last nine or ten months.

Godge

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

O'Gara should be nowhere near the starting lineup for me.

A few posts below yours is the scoring stats for the League and O'Byrne.

Leading both is Rock as free-taker.

McCaffrey and Brogan are the next two in the league but O'Gara is the leading points scorer from play in the League and second-highest scorer overall in the O'Byrne Cup.

On Sunday I thought the amount and quality of ball into the full-forward line was very poor. The game was lost in the middle of the park. O'Gara wasn't playing midfield last I checked.

Nidgeweasel

keane2097 wrote: »

This time last year O'Gara was one of the form players in Division 1 IIRC. He seems to have regressed badly over the last nine or ten months.

Form is temporary, class is permanent!

DoctaDee

keane2097 wrote: »

This time last year O'Gara was one of the form players in Division 1 IIRC. He seems to have regressed badly over the last nine or ten months.

I was in the middle of a long winded reply, but ^^^ covers my point to a T. There were certain periods particulalrly v Mayo when he was good to the point of being unplayable. I think O'Gara's biggest drawback at the moment is the fact he's quite 1 dimensional. Big men like Murphy and Donaghy have the ability to adapt their game further out the field, whereas EOG relies on his strength inside the 45. The fact that he was tied up by 4 or 5 men at a time by Donegal would make anyone look ineffective

keane2097

DoctaDee wrote: »

I was in the middle of a long winded reply, but ^^^ covers my point to a T. There were certain periods particulalrly v Mayo when he was good to the point of being unplayable. I think O'Gara's biggest drawback at the moment is the fact he's quite 1 dimensional. Big men like Murphy and Donaghy have the ability to adapt their game further out the field, whereas EOG relies on his strength inside the 45. The fact that he was tied up by 4 or 5 men at a time by Donegal would make anyone look ineffective

There's also the question of whether people are expecting too much/the wrong things from him at times.

He's at his most effective when he has the likes of Brogan taking attention off him, and definitely isn't good enough to cope with the fact that early in the league he's the forward teams actually plan to counteract.

With a properly stacked forward line buzzing around I'd take O'Gara winning ball, laying it off quickly, generally being a nuisance any day of the week over Dean Rock floating around pretending like he's ever going to do anything.

O'Gara is certainly not elegant, but used right can be very effective and help others around be as well.

Padraig1888

Anything on after the game Saturday? Seen there's Erin Go Bragh on in Tolka Park after the game. The 1916 Societies organising it, don't know anything about them.

DoctaDee

Padraig1888 wrote: »

Anything on after the game Saturday? Seen there's Erin Go Bragh on in Tolka Park after the game. The 1916 Societies organising it, don't know anything about them.

Ah I think you do

Padraig1888 wrote: »

Free Irish lessons – Tallaght


Fettercairn Community Centre – Monday February 23rd @ 7:30pm (every Monday thereafter)
Lessons are beginner conversational Irish and the lessons are completely free.


Organised by Pádraig Pearse 1916 Society, Clondalkin/Tallaght

Past30Now

keane2097 wrote: »

There's also the question of whether people are expecting too much/the wrong things from him at times.

He's at his most effective when he has the likes of Brogan taking attention off him, and definitely isn't good enough to cope with the fact that early in the league he's the forward teams actually plan to counteract.

With a properly stacked forward line buzzing around I'd take O'Gara winning ball, laying it off quickly, generally being a nuisance any day of the week over Dean Rock floating around pretending like he's ever going to do anything.

O'Gara is certainly not elegant, but used right can be very effective and help others around be as well.

I agree with this completely. O'Gara is such a nightmare for defenders. Its fine for them when they can concentrate solely on him but when Bernard, Flynn and Connolly are in the team he'll run riot. I think that Gavin will continue to start him in the white heat of the championship. The point about Dean Rock isn't far wrong either and I don't see him on our starting 15.

copacetic

Agree with above, O'Gara has his ups and downs and the ball bounces off him a bit, but he got in much better form last year and often tied up two defenders or at the very least the biggest meanest defender, saving someone else having to deal with them. He also takes what seems like 80% of the rough stuff on himself over and over again and has gotten amazing at not responding too much. He also doesn't go in to hiding when the going gets tough the way some of our forwards can.

If imagine the whole rest of the front line is delighted when he is on the pitch and he is the only real out and out ball winning target man full forward we have (even if he isn't the best he could be it). He just isn't suited to carrying a forward line in league games, he needs to fit in to a line up of clinical scorers around him.

EICVD

Talking of O'Gara was anyone at the U21 game last night? Is young Killian similar in physic to his big brother? Sounded like Laois made a game of it for 50 minutes at least. Longford will be hoping for a repeat of 2013 on the 18th. Does anyone actually know the venue for this game too? Haven't seen anything yet.

EICVD

Just seen the the U21 game is in Navan, just up the M3 from me, perfect!

Billy Mays

EICVD wrote: »

Talking of O'Gara was anyone at the U21 game last night? Is young Killian similar in physic to his big brother? Sounded like Laois made a game of it for 50 minutes at least. Longford will be hoping for a repeat of 2013 on the 18th. Does anyone actually know the venue for this game too? Haven't seen anything yet.

I was at the game. He's very similar in size to Eoghan and was a real handful. Scored 1-3 from play.

DoctaDee

Billy Mays wrote: »

I was at the game. He's very similar in size to Eoghan and was a real handful. Scored 1-3 from play.

I have to be honest and say I don't know much about the chap, but if you were a man up a tree at the recent Seniors v U21's challenge game I believe you couldn't fail but be impressed by the lad

DoctaDee

Dublin team to face Tyrone

Cluxton

Culligan, O'Carroll, Cooper,

Devereaux, McMahon, McCaffrey,

Bastick, O'Conghaile,

Brady,Rock, Kilkenny,

McMenamon, Andrews,Brogan


9th start in a row for Rock at CF, personally would've liked Kilkenny in there and Davey Byrne on the wing

ProudDUB

Very strong team that. Wouldn't be surprised to see another change or two before throw in. Another start for Dean Rock. I hate to sound harsh, but he needs to $hit or get off the pot. If he is not going to contribute from open play, it's time to start giving others a chance to show that they can.

DoctaDee

ProudDUB wrote: »

Very strong team that. Wouldn't be surprised to see another change or two before throw in. Another start for Dean Rock. I hate to sound harsh, but he needs to $hit or get off the pot. If he is not going to contribute from open play, it's time to start giving others a chance to show that they can.

Oh 100% agreed on Rock PD. personally don't think he has what is required to pull the strings in attack. I tend to cast my mind back to the AI Club final when he was needed most he was found wanting (and I say this as an ex Kickhams player) I'm guessing the 21's are being left to recharge the batteries.

It's the first panel this year that I've got the impression that there's a bit of attacking menace waiting for Tyrone. I hope that Paddy Andrews is left inside with BB rather than the roving role he's played recently - I think he's a good target man capable of winning his fair share of ball - he was the best forward in club football 3-4 years ago, so it'sin the locker if he can find the confidence. I'd be interested to know how far along Cian O'Sullivan is in his rehab/training, I know last week was a forced entry with Basticks black card but I'd expect him to make some contribution. As others have said I would've liked to have seen how Jack Mc would get on at wing forward, Jim Gavin raised my hopes in the OBC semi against Meath but he doesn't appear to want to follow thru on the experiment - Jim if yer reading this stick COS half back and Jack Mc half forward :rolleyes:

pluszap

Dublin (HL Division 1A v Cork) - Alan Nolan; Cian O'Callaghan, Michael Carton, Paul Schutte; Chris Crummey, Peter Kelly, Conal Keaney; Shane Durkin, Niall McMorrow; Ryan O'Dwyer, Eamonn Dillon, Danny Sutcliffe; David Treacy, Liam Rushe, Mark Schutte.

pluszap

Dublin (HL Division 1A v Cork) - Alan Nolan; Cian O'Callaghan, Michael Carton, Paul Schutte; Chris Crummey, Peter Kelly, Conal Keaney; Shane Durkin, Niall McMorrow; Ryan O'Dwyer, Eamonn Dillon, Danny Sutcliffe; David Treacy, Liam Rushe, Mark Schutte.

pluszap

Dublin (HL Division 1A v Cork) - Alan Nolan; Cian O'Callaghan, Michael Carton, Paul Schutte; Chris Crummey, Peter Kelly, Conal Keaney; Shane Durkin, Niall McMorrow; Ryan O'Dwyer, Eamonn Dillon, Danny Sutcliffe; David Treacy, Liam Rushe, Mark Schutte.

ThunbergsAreGo

Giving advantage in hurling does my head in, give me a free 9/10 times

Awful first half

Gael85

Getting hammered by 15 points and in backs and takes off the corner forward 😒

sean mac

Gael85 wrote: »

Getting hammered by 15 points and in backs and takes off the corner forward 😒

Junior b stuff shocking management,when a teams this flat eyes need to look at the sideline

Slattsy

Cork just looking sharper. Dubs look bolloxed!!

Hopefully see a response in the 2nd half

Slattsy

Unsurprisingly not the greatest game to watch.
We're running into alot of blind alleys and need to use the head a bit more.

CurryFlavoured

Rock's a fantastic free taker but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with him starting #11 come Summer.

Slattsy

Couldnt agree more.

danjo-xx

Are tonight's league matches on radio anywhere.

seanhynes

Tyrone blanket defence strategy is unreal

Slattsy

O'Gara

Slattsy

Got out of jail tonight, we simply cant break down the negative defence.
Taking the wrong option far too often and the runners off the ball seemed to make the wrong runs too.
Plenty too work on as most teams will try the same tactics.

Hon the Dubs

I know it's only early in the year but honestly haven't been impressed at all so far! Really expected the players to be up for the league this year after losing last year...

CurryFlavoured

Pretty drab stuff. We were lucky to get a draw in the end, not too many positives from that. Rock did very well but as I said above I don't want him as our CF. BB was anonymous and I hope he's lost his undroppable tag as he doesn't deserve based on his past 2 seasons. O'Gara should be shot every time he steps over 20 metres from the opposition goal, he's a good target man but that is literally it.

God knows how that free was given at the end, lots of soft ones given over the night.

ThunbergsAreGo

Phillips Mcmahon frustrates me like no other

billyhead

naughtb4 wrote: »

Phillips McManus frustrates me like no other

You mean Philly McMahon:)

Don't worry about the performance folks. All Ireland medals are not handed out in March. Survival in division 1 is the main target now

ThunbergsAreGo

billyhead wrote: »

You mean Philly McMahon:)

Don't worry about the performance folks. All Ireland medals are not handed out in March. Survival in division 1 is the main target now

Dam auto correct! Even when I was editing SwiftKey hates Mcmahon!

He has so much ability but no interest in defending or playing easy balls.
Tbh it's not the performance but the lack of plan for the blanket defence that is worrying people.

corny

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Pretty drab stuff. We were lucky to get a draw in the end, not too many positives from that. Rock did very well but as I said above I don't want him as our CF. BB was anonymous and I hope he's lost his undroppable tag as he doesn't deserve based on his past 2 seasons. O'Gara should be shot every time he steps over 20 metres from the opposition goal, he's a good target man but that is literally it.

God knows how that free was given at the end, lots of soft ones given over the night.

Whats he to do? He has at least one man marker and two free men (it was comical watching the Tyrone 8 and 10) floating in front of him at all times. If he does manage to break into the corner he turns, looks up and sees 5 or 6 shuffling across to close him down. The blanket defence removes inside forwards from the game. He or anyone else is his position is up **** creek. I genuinely believe teams should pull all their players out to the forty when up against Tyrone, Armagh and Donegal because you'd outnumber them there and thats what they want to avoid at all costs. One things for sure we currently have no plan to break these teams down.

Wider point. I hope Gavin realises the blanket defence is not only about the opposition trying to keep us out. These teams are using it to expose us as poor defenders. When they break we're at sixes and sevens because players are constantly ball watching. Say what you will about the joys of watching Dublin in full flow under Gavin but give me Gilroys approach of playing them at their own game any day of the week.

Ok rant over. Hurlers were disappointing. We basically didn't play in the first half and in the second the huge number of individual mistakes cost us dear. Keaneys not a half back and Rushe isn't a full forward but we knew that already. Cork were good though.

ProudDUB

Not sure what to make of all that. The 14 man blanket. Jayzus ! :eek:

Delighted for Dean Rock. That may be the injection of confidence he needs to start imposing himself on games more. (I should give out about his bowel movements more often. ) That wasn't just his first goal of the year, but I think it was his first attempt at a goal. Considering how many games he has under his belt now, that was really starting to worry me. Not a bit worried about BB. It was only his first full game back, so I'd hardly expect him to be getting 5-19 from play in his first full game. He is moving well, considering the time of year. If match fit and healthy (which he hasn't been for the past two summers) he is still my first name on the team sheet.

The shot selection, especially at the end, was all over the place. The term startled earwigs is one I never hope to hear again, but that's what we looked like at the end, trying to send Hail Marys over the bar from ridiculous angles. What happened to patience and waiting for the right moment to create space and find the open man? :mad:

Not a bit happy about having to head to Mayo looking for a win to avoid the relegation zone. Still, we face Derry and Monaghan in our last two games, don't we? They are most peoples picks to go down, so at least we have our destiny in our own hands. It may not be a bad thing to finish out of the top four and just slink back to the training pitch, to work on the many things that need tweaking. Another league trophy and acres of media hype about how unstoppable we are, is of zero use to us as we head towards the summer imo.

CurryFlavoured

@corny

It wasn't really having a go at BB tonight, moreso the last 2 years. Tonight was very tough for him and we know the talent he has but over the last 2 season I don't think he deserves the undroppable tag he seems to have, that's all I'm saying.

ProudDUB

I disagree. Based on what we have seen so far this year, who would replace him? Last Sunday in Killarney, it took him 25 minutes, of his first game of the year, to get his first goal of the year. It took Dean Rock 9 full games to get his first goal. O'Gara, Kev Mc & CC have not exactly been banging them in either. I'm not knocking Dean Rock, or any of the other forwards, but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here.

corny

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

@corny

It wasn't really having a go at BB tonight, moreso the last 2 years. Tonight was very tough for him and we know the talent he has but over the last 2 season I don't think he deserves the undroppable tag he seems to have, that's all I'm saying.

I agree he's not undroppable and he mightn't do much in the earlier parts of the year these days but.....

In 2013, he was decidedly average in the Leinster championship. In the QF i thought he showed well for the ball even though some still thought he was poor. In the semi he top scored and in the final he was the difference between the sides. I'd drop him till August.;)

ProudDUB

I'd actually be happy to see him used very sparingly between now and August. The injuries he is starting to suffer from, are the wear and tear, non contact, groin and hamstring ones. They are much harder to bounce back from. He'll be 31 soon, so we won't have him around forever. Lets not wear him out in March. If we are to bring Sam home again, we'll be needing BB fit and healthy in August & September.

CurryFlavoured

Look, if he plays average all year and then brings it in August I won't complain, but I want to see us rotate our whole FF line through the season rather than rotating 2 of them and playing Bernard regardless of form or backup. Especially considering we have guys like Rock, Costello, Kev Mc and others in the panel capable of playing there.

ProudDUB

Well my granny is capable of playing there too. For an 87 year old, she is pretty sprightly. But is she going to score the big goals and points for us, from play, in the really big games? Prior to tonight, Kev Mc & O'Gara are the only other forwards who do it consistently & even then, it can be a bit hit and miss, whereby they are very productive in one game and very quiet in the next one. I'd need to see more productivity from CC and Dean Rock, on a more consistent basis, before I'd even think about giving Bernard's starting jersey to anyone else.

CurryFlavoured

I'd argue BB has been very inconsistent as well. Last season it didn't happen for him at all, the season before he didn't perform until the semi's (I'm very grateful for those 2 games though), and the year before he didn't perform either. I'm not turning this into a BB hate rant or trying to have him permanently dropped, I love watching the guy when he's on song, but I think he's been undroppable the last few seasons and I don't agree with it. For example, most of our starters would be dropped after having 1 or 2 sub-par games given our big panel, but BB has shown he can have 3 or 4 below par games and still start the next day out. That's what I don't agree with.

Also, to say O'Gara is a bit hit and miss must be the understatement of the century!

ProudDUB

I totally get where you are coming from, but I think the context of his poor form is important, as it is usually injury or lack of match fitness related. If anyone has a bad run of form, and there is no underlying reason for it (such as injury, or lack of game time) I do not think that they are undroppable. That goes for the other untouchables too, such as Flynn & Connolly. But if there is a valid reason for it, I think you are cutting off your nose to spite your face, if you don't give the player a chance to get match fit and prove he still merits the starting jersey, even if it takes more than one game. Jim Gavin did that in 2013 and look what happened in the final.

BB missed all of last years league (bar the final) due to off season surgery. He pulled his hammer in the first Leinster game, which led to more missed games. Once August rolled around, the odds of him being match fit were not good. But with a player of his calibre, I'd still be rolling that dice until the day comes when there is no valid reason not to.

Slattsy

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

I'd argue BB has been very inconsistent as well. Last season it didn't happen for him at all, the season before he didn't perform until the semi's (I'm very grateful for those 2 games though), and the year before he didn't perform either. I'm not turning this into a BB hate rant or trying to have him permanently dropped, I love watching the guy when he's on song, but I think he's been undroppable the last few seasons and I don't agree with it. For example, most of our starters would be dropped after having 1 or 2 sub-par games given our big panel, but BB has shown he can have 3 or 4 below par games and still start the next day out. That's what I don't agree with.

Also, to say O'Gara is a bit hit and miss must be the understatement of the century!

I'd have to agree with this assessment.

The problem with BB is that he is well marshaled. Deservedly so. Give him space he'll destroy you. But is too easily kept quiet imo.
Take a look at Colm Cooper as an example, often double marked but yet consistently able to score well from play, regardless.
BB has to be able to do more. His decision making is cat at times also. Takes some silly pot shots on.

Maybe Gavin needs to make more use of him ie use him drag defenders away from the square, use him as a dummy.

ProudDUB

Well Jayzus, if we could find ourselves 15 Colm Coopers, we'd be laughing.

But the odds of that happening are slim, so we have to stick with what we have. And based on what we have seen so far, in 5 O'Byrne Cups games and 4 league games, no one forward in particular has put his hand up to claim the starting jersey off one of the regulars imo.

One excellent game in 10, from Dean Rock is not enough. (If he keeps this up in games 5, 6 & 7, I'll happily revise my opinion on this.) CC is too light. He gets knocked off the ball too easily. Tomas Brady has the heart of a lion, but he just doesn't have the speed or the vision to challenge for a champo starting spot, Kilkenny & Andrews are coming back from injury so the jury is out there, Kev Mc & O'Gara continue to frustrate with their lack of consistency. God knows what is going on with Alan B. Mannion is away in China.

So given all that....I think I'll be sticking with the high percentage choices & proven AI winners.

Slattsy

If we had a team of 15 CC's we wouldnt win a match