Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

[Jackass]

yuinc wrote: »

not spreading the net wide enough?

there are a hell of a lot more potential props walking around Leinster than 6'5+ athletes who have the ability/training from a young age to be a top level rugby player.. I would say there was 1 possibly three players who were over 6'5 playing senior cup this year..

Flanagan needed gametime and experience, he is getting way more than he might have gotten at Leinster in France.. Hopefully his progress is being closely followed and if he progresses he will certainly have every chance at coming back..

Yeah I don't know how many players of that size there are, definitely the most difficult criteria to meet, but by not spreading the net wide enough I literally mean taking on possibly not the best players but who meet the size requirements and seeing how much they can improve with some academy / sub-academy training rather than waiting for the odd diamond in the rough.

Flanagan was a very decent player, worth keeping an eye on, but I'd definitely shift focus to some of the younger lads.

rockbeast

phog wrote: »

What happened Route 66? Anyone come out of that?

Route 64 made a fortune:D

Nah, they were all over 18 and they couldn't hit rucks...It's very hard to hit a ruck at that age if your entire sporting career to that point you've been told to keep your back straight...

yuinc

I think they do but they can only get as far as the raw materials available to them and each u18 schools age group over the last four years has produced one lock that is at least 6'6: Gavin Thornbury(1993), Ross Molony(1994), Josh Murphy(1995) and James Ryan(1996).

Thornbury and Molony are already in the academy and Murphy will probably join them this summer or next.

The youth's system hasn't been able to produce anyone since Flanagan..

A player who would be a project is Robbie Collins who is around 6'8, he went to Clongowes last year but hasn't been involved with Leinster under-age teams as of yet. He is currently playing with Lansdowne under-20 and is eligible for under-20 again next season.

rockbeast

A "Passionate" thread about the future #4/5 for Leinster?

We must all be "locked"!

*and 6'6"

Larbre34

With the flurry for contracts in the lower ranks ongoing, who is leaving the senior squad?

O'Driscoll and Cullen we know. O'Connell and Hudson to Bristol too.

Surely Denton and Auva'a? Any word of Bossie? He's been solid enough but getting on a bit, with two young guys behind him needing games? Dundon and Bent?

Was very surprised to run into Goodman in his dress blues on Friday night, thought he may have slipped away Berquist style by now..

CIARAN_BOYLE

Larbre34 wrote: »

With the flurry for contracts in the lower ranks ongoing, who is leaving the senior squad?

O'Driscoll and Cullen we know. O'Connell and Hudson to Bristol too.

Surely Denton and Auva'a? Any word of Bossie? He's been solid enough but getting on a bit, with two young guys behind him needing games? Dundon and Bent?

Was very surprised to run into Goodman in his dress blues on Friday night, thought he may have slipped away Berquist style by now..

Bent 2 year renewal, Auva'a off to England.

Unknown about the rest.

Heroditas

Denton is a useful guy to have around and certainly he's performed far better than Roux whenever either player has played for the first team this season. I'd keep him for another season at least - he's a handy player to have in the squad.

EDIT: for some reason I thought Denton signed in 2012, he actually signed in 2011? Bloody hell. Time is flying by.

former legend

Larbre34 wrote: »

Was very surprised to run into Goodman in his dress blues on Friday night, thought he may have slipped away Berquist style by now..

He's been at nearly all the home games this season, fair play to him. Maybe the fact that he's still here means he's going to be kept on?

I'd love to see him get another contract because he was excellent last year and my heart goes out to the poor baxtard over his injuries this season. Then again, he's 31, he's NIQ and Noel Reid has really stepped up to the mark in his absence so you'd wonder if he's really needed?

yuinc

No reason to keep Goodman.
Auva'a has to go.
Bent is so average also.
Denton has improved and is an okay 4th option at lock.
roux rumoured to be leaving early.

Larbre34

Maybe we could get Stevenson thrown in with Payne, always liked his approach to things!

salmocab

where is dundon contract wise does anybody know, I rate him in so far as being a 3rd choice hooker goes albeit behind 2 internationals so gets good enough game time and always looked good enough good darts too. Also regards Bent he is probably at best 3rd choice for both sides and I would be surprised if many teams in the Rabo have a 3rd choice prop as good as Bent, he is a good solid pro 12 prop and it seems right that we have him in reserve until 1 or 2 of the younger guys get up to level.

CIARAN_BOYLE

salmocab wrote: »

where is dundon contract wise does anybody know, I rate him in so far as being a 3rd choice hooker goes albeit behind 2 internationals so gets good enough game time and always looked good enough good darts too. Also regards Bent he is probably at best 3rd choice for both sides and I would be surprised if many teams in the Rabo have a 3rd choice prop as good as Bent, he is a good solid pro 12 prop and it seems right that we have him in reserve until 1 or 2 of the younger guys get up to level.

I'd rather keep JOC and let Bent go if it had come down to a choice to be honest. That said he is probably one of the top 5 3rd choice LHs in Europe and top 10 3rd choice THs in Europe

Dundon's contract expires this season but I would imagine it should be renewed

salmocab

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I'd rather keep JOC and let Bent go if it had come down to a choice to be honest. That said he is probably one of the top 5 3rd choice LHs in Europe and top 10 3rd choice THs in Europe

Dundon's contract expires this season but I would imagine it should be renewed

Yeah but I suppose for next season Bent would be a better option than JOC who will probably come on with a lot of playing time which he wouldn't really get at Leinster yet, I think Bents reputation suffers because he was dropped in it by Kidney.
Would be delighted if Dundon signs on for another 2 seasons as Im not sure we have a young hooker quite ready to make that step up just yet.

former legend

yuinc wrote: »

No reason to keep Goodman.
Auva'a has to go.
Bent is so average also.
Denton has improved and is an okay 4th option at lock.
roux rumoured to be leaving early.

He's a very good 12 who can cover 10. Not a bad option to have in the squad; just ask the Munster fans.

.ak

I'd be happy with Goodman but from a very business perspective I can't see Leinster hanging onto him. He could be crocked now. He's had two sets of surgery on the same achilles without even playing a minutes rugby this season. If he was fully fit and we were getting him for peanuts then yep, he'd be a great addition. But I don't think he'll ever be 100%, and I'd rather we tried to sign a slightly higher profile SXV type centre, preferably an outside centre.

CatFromHue

I don't see why Munster wouldn't sign him now.

He's 32 in Oct so not that old really and could fill a void for them for 1-2 seasons anyway.

irishbucsfan

Having Goodman could prove valuable if D'Arcy is needed to cover 13.

We really need a fair bit of depth at center as the talent level their declines. If we don't find long term solutions at 12/13 next season we're reaching the point of either just chucking s**t at the wall to see what sticks or signing overseas imports.


With my purely Leinster-based hat on, I'd like to see us pilfer Henshaw and bring back Sheridan and give them a go.

Buer

former legend wrote: »

He's a very good 12 who can cover 10. Not a bad option to have in the squad; just ask the Munster fans.

But has never lined out at 10 for us. To be honest, Reid has stepped up and occupies his role now. Don't think his staying makes any sense particularly when he occupies a NIQ spot.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

But has never lined out at 10 for us. To be honest, Reid has stepped up and occupies his role now. Don't think his staying makes any sense particularly when he occupies a NIQ spot.

At Reid's age you can't count on him getting through a season injury-free though. He's in the 21-24 high risk bracket. Goodman of course may be no better.

Not sure how much Leinster are concerned about the NIQ count?

Dravokivich

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Having Goodman could prove valuable if D'Arcy is needed to cover 13.

We really need a fair bit of depth at center as the talent level their declines. If we don't find long term solutions at 12/13 next season we're reaching the point of either just chucking s**t at the wall to see what sticks or signing overseas imports.


With my purely Leinster-based hat on, I'd like to see us pilfer Henshaw and bring back Sheridan and give them a go.

This is my thinking as well. It really depends on what Leinster are looking to do in the centre from next season.

Hagz

Sure Goodman is far more likely to pick up an injury than Noel Reid. Plus I think Tom Daly is a pretty decent player too. I wouldn't have a problem with him playing in a Pro12 game.

yuinc

I'd have almost no problem with any of the academy lads in their 2nd or 3rd year in the academy playing pro 12 rugby..

hence why i'd happily see Bent go away..

irishbucsfan

yuinc wrote: »

I'd have almost no problem with any of the academy lads in their 2nd or 3rd year in the academy playing pro 12 rugby..

hence why i'd happily see Bent go away..

Yes, but the coaches would have a problem with that. And players of that age can't be relied on to last through a rugby season without injury. There needs to be a veteran presence to back those guys up, because they will drop like flies when the intensity is ramped up.

Hagz

We can't afford to lose Bent. We will be without Ross and Moore during the Autumn and the 6nations. That leaves us with just Furlong at tight-head.

former legend

Bent was invaluable during the 6N window this year. With O'Connell gone we'll need him even more.

yuinc

Bent isn't a better LH than Jack O'Connell and he isn't a better TH than Tadhg Furlong..

Soon Ed Byrne and Peter Dooley will be pushing past him at LH.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

yuinc wrote: »

Bent isn't a better LH than Jack O'Connell and he isn't a better TH than Tadhg Furlong..

Soon Ed Byrne and Peter Dooley will be pushing past him at LH.

In your opinion. Leinster management seem to think differently

[Jackass]

As a squad player, Bent is a very useful part of the squad. I think people really under rate him too, he's a decent loose head and a competent tight-head at Pro12 level and as emergency cover, given he can play both sides of the scrum and is young enough and seems happy in the role of squad player, I think he's a very valuable and versatile member of the set-up.

Teferi

Bent is a fine squad player, well worth his spot.

CIARAN_BOYLE

[Jackass] wrote: »

As a squad player, Bent is a very useful part of the squad. I think people really under rate him too, he's a decent loose head and a competent tight-head at Pro12 level and as emergency cover, given he can play both sides of the scrum and is young enough and seems happy in the role of squad player, I think he's a very valuable and versatile member of the set-up.

I agree with entirely, all I was trying to say is that I would have rather kept JOC and maybe signed someone for the AIL as a depth TH for about the same money Bent is supposedly on if it was a choice with keeping Bent on the other side of the equation.

With JOC gone keeping Bent is now critical for a couple of seasons.

Hagz

yuinc wrote: »

Bent isn't a better LH than Jack O'Connell and he isn't a better TH than Tadhg Furlong..

Soon Ed Byrne and Peter Dooley will be pushing past him at LH.

We don't have another tight-head behind Furlong. You can't possibly enter into a season with 3 tight-heads, two of which you know you will be without during the international window. We don't even have another tight-head in the academy.

If Bent had gone instead of O'Connell, we would be relying on O'Connell's ability at TH. I think Bent is probably a more reliable senior tight-head.

It's irrelevant that Ed and Peter will be pushing past Bent at LH, as Bent is needed more at TH. Besides, Ed and Peter would have just as easily pushed past O'Connell. They are two outstanding prospects.

yuinc

a squad player on a 160k a year, madness..

Bent is a very average player whose only plus is his ability to cover LH/TH...

with JOC leaving and no other TH's in the academy, I understand why he is necessary.

but the less games he plays in the better.

CIARAN_BOYLE

yuinc wrote: »

a squad player on a 160k a year, madness..

Bent is a very average player whose only plus is his ability to cover LH/TH...

with JOC leaving and no other TH's in the academy, I understand why he is necessary.

but the less games he plays in the better.

160K over two years I think

Hagz

Yeh. There's no way a player like Bent is on 160k a year. Over two years is more realistic.

CatFromHue

TH is one of the most important and specialized positions on the pitch. I could well believe he's on 160K per year and more power to him too for it.

Hagz

Nah. No chance. There's no way he's on 160k a year.

Tox56

Hagz wrote: »

Sure Goodman is far more likely to pick up an injury than Noel Reid. Plus I think Tom Daly is a pretty decent player too. I wouldn't have a problem with him playing in a Pro12 game.

Colm O'Shea is a 12 primarily too isn't he? It wasn't too long ago there were more than a few who wanted to see him there ahead of Reid. I know he got some time off the bench against the Ospreys but I'd like to see more of him

yuinc

Tox56 wrote: »

Colm O'Shea is a 12 primarily too isn't he? It wasn't too long ago there were more than a few who wanted to see him there ahead of Reid. I know he got some time off the bench against the Ospreys but I'd like to see more of him

12/13, had been playing 13 primarily for A team and Clontarf.

Mahatma Geansai

CatFromHue wrote: »

TH is one of the most important and specialized positions on the pitch. I could well believe he's on 160K per year and more power to him too for it.

Yes, but he isn't the player who signed and jumped straight into an Irish jersey. He is a decent LH and a passable TH. It would be crazy money for Leinster's third choice LH and TH.

former legend

People just seem to have a mental block about Bent because of the manner of his introduction. He's a very useful squad player.

yuinc

former legend wrote: »

People just seem to have a mental block about Bent because of the manner of his introduction. He's a very useful squad player.

simply not true.. watch some of his recent starts.. he has been good in the scrum but some of his "tackling" and work at clearing rucks has been poor at best..

He is an average squad player.

former legend

yuinc wrote: »

simply not true.. watch some of his recent starts.. he has been good in the scrum but some of his "tackling" and work at clearing rucks has been poor at best..

He is an average squad player.

I've watched all of his recent starts. His work rate around the pitch is not at Cian Healy levels but he gets around.

Again, he's third choice and he's a very good third choice to have.

Buer

I'd be shocked if Bent is on €160k a season. It wouldn't stack up whatsoever with what we've seen previously in Irish rugby. He's 27, has two sub appearances for Ireland, 15 starts for Leinster and is 3rd choice prop.

When going to the RWC, Sexton was 26, first choice outhalf for Ireland with 20 caps, a HEC medal in his pocket and a crucial player for Leinster. He was on €150k. He had signed that contract the same year.

I think we're also completely missing the fact that the figure was thrown out by Neil Francis who has about as much inside information with the current set up as I do.

durkadurka

Not often I get to correct Buer ( well, Never really) but I believe it was fanning

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/provinces-at-the-crossroads-30180595.html

Buer

Neil Francis pretending to be Brendan Fanning.

This is a new low for him.

former legend

durkadurka wrote: »

Not often I get to correct Buer ( well, Never really) but I believe it was fanning

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/provinces-at-the-crossroads-30180595.html

That just says 160k - doesn't specify per annum or over two years.

I refuse to be believe he'd be getting 160 per year. And if he is, I'd be pretty annoyed.

Heroditas

yuinc wrote: »

some of his "tackling" and work at clearing rucks has been poor at best...

The same could be said of any number of Leinster players over the last few months.

Morf

former legend wrote: »

He's been at nearly all the home games this season, fair play to him. Maybe the fact that he's still here means he's going to be kept on?

I'd love to see him get another contract because he was excellent last year and my heart goes out to the poor baxtard over his injuries this season. Then again, he's 31, he's NIQ and Noel Reid has really stepped up to the mark in his absence so you'd wonder if he's really needed?

Had a grand chat with him at Munster A game. Said he was 3ish weeks off full training and seemed to be relatively hopeful to get back to playing fitness. I very much hope this is this case.

.ak wrote: »

I'd be happy with Goodman but from a very business perspective I can't see Leinster hanging onto him. He could be crocked now. He's had two sets of surgery on the same achilles without even playing a minutes rugby this season. If he was fully fit and we were getting him for peanuts then yep, he'd be a great addition. But I don't think he'll ever be 100%, and I'd rather we tried to sign a slightly higher profile SXV type centre, preferably an outside centre.

If better NIQ options were there then it'd make sense to not-renew Goodman but Leinster haven't exactly been setting the market alight with big NIQ signings in the last few years either. He's a solid pro who would be a very useful squad player if his relative fitness isn't majorly in doubt.

CatFromHue

Buer wrote: »

I'd be shocked if Bent is on €160k a season. It wouldn't stack up whatsoever with what we've seen previously in Irish rugby. He's 27, has two sub appearances for Ireland, 15 starts for Leinster and is 3rd choice prop.

When going to the RWC, Sexton was 26, first choice outhalf for Ireland with 20 caps, a HEC medal in his pocket and a crucial player for Leinster. He was on €150k. He had signed that contract the same year.

I think we're also completely missing the fact that the figure was thrown out by Neil Francis who has about as much inside information with the current set up as I do.

Well it depends on what he was signed on originally.

I can't see him taking much of a pay cut since he got here no matter what the Branch think of him and I can't see him coming over for small money either.

His situation is completely different to Sexton too, the Union were taking the piss with him (hence him moving to Racing).

padser

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

In your opinion. Leinster management seem to think differently

To be fair we don't really have evidence from this season that Leinster mgt rate him ahead of Furlong at tighthead. Furlong was injured at the crucial point where we would have discovered which of them was third choice. My guess is it was Furlong.

Fair point re loose head though, he is definitely our third choice and rightly so, if we has a big match tomorrow and one of the top two loose heads were injured id rather bent on the bench then one of the younger guys