Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

.ak

Also Kirchner is going to be absolutely crucial to us this year. He's probably been one of our best backs so his experience at 15 and 14 is important. In the big games you'd imagine the back three will have two certainties; RK and ZK.

ssaye2

sullivlo wrote: »

Who is this Crosbie guy?

Academy 12/10

Played ulster Tallaght game

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/team/results/squad_leinster_academy.php?player=108454&includeref=dynamic

DOB10th Feb 1993 Birthplace
Height1.85 m (6' 1") Weight92 kg (14 st 6 lb) PositionFly Half ClubOld Belvedere RFC

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah yeah, but there's slowly and there's slowly. Why not start Reddan this week with McGrath on the bench for example? If you have a player on the way up and another on the way down surely there comes a point where you start to prioritise the guy on the way up?

Start Reddan after a lay off? What if there's an issue and he has to come off early? Then McGrath is put on in a game where we need to win, against a team who's probably a tad more dangerous than they have been.

I have no problem with MOC taking the more intelligent, prudent route here.

McGrath will get his game time. Just like Madigan did last season when people were giving out. It'll be interesting to see what he does with that game time.

For me though McGrath is a good bench option, he's not good enough to start.

.ak

ssaye2 wrote: »

Academy 12/10

Played ulster Tallaght game

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/team/results/squad_leinster_academy.php?player=108454&includeref=dynamic

DOB10th Feb 1993 Birthplace
Height1.85 m (6' 1") Weight92 kg (14 st 6 lb) PositionFly Half ClubOld Belvedere RFC

Played well in the u20s squad also. Big unit with good vision. Probably has some more weight to put on also.

Where's O'Brien?

former legend

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's O'Brien?

Presume rested; with the internationals limited to a quota of league matches and Heaslip back available, it makes sense for SOB to drop out this week.

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

For me though McGrath is a good bench option, he's not good enough to start.

How can you possibly know this though? He started one game for the senior team where he was perfectly competent and that was two seasons ago when he was much more inexperienced. If Darragh Fanning can hold down a place in the team surely someone with the talent of McGrath can at least get a chance.

Im not even saying he will be brilliant, he might make mistakes, but he will need to make some mistakes at some point if hes going to improve as a player and on the basis of what we saw last week how much worse is he realistically going to be than Boss, but him getting gametime has infinitely more upside.

ssaye2

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's O'Brien?

Charity bike race carlow sunday - not sure if just attending

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

That's what I'd like to see personally. I think it's the safest bet also. Unless Reid's rise continues...

It's the best use of resources in the long term as well. Reid and Madigan pushing each other at 12 with D'Arcy/Macken/Te'o/etc. pushing each other for the 13 jersey.

Hope to see Crosbie at 12, I'd like to see where he is relative to someone like the Scarlets.

former legend

Tox56 wrote: »

How can you possibly know this though? He started one game for the senior team where he was perfectly competent and that was two seasons ago when he was much more inexperienced. If Darragh Fanning can hold down a place in the team surely someone with the talent of McGrath can at least get a chance.

McGrath is competing with Boss and Reddan for a spot, Fanning is competing with a bunch of fringe players and academy hopefuls, it's a massive difference.

Tox56

former legend wrote: »

McGrath is competing with Boss and Reddan for a spot, Fanning is competing with a bunch of fringe players and academy hopefuls, it's a massive difference.

Thats not really the point though, .ak was saying he just isnt good enough to start but Darragh Fanning started 12 games last season, I sometimes think people overestimate what level young players need to be performing at to get starts, they dont have to be the finished product or anything near it before they step on the field.

And its Boss more than Reddan I see him competing with, Reddan is clearly 1st choice but Boss is 34, almost certainly gone after this season and to be generous his form is inconsistent these days.

Edit: Wait McGrath isn't even on the bench??

former legend

Tox56 wrote: »

Thats not really the point though, .ak was saying he just isnt good enough to start but Darragh Fanning started 12 games last season, I sometimes think people overestimate what level young players need to be performing at to get starts, they dont have to be the finished product or anything near it before they step on the field.

And its Boss more than Reddan I see him competing with, Reddan is clearly 1st choice but Boss is 34, almost certainly gone after this season and to be generous his form is inconsistent these days.

Edit: Wait McGrath isn't even on the bench??

Nope. Reddan didn't feature in the warm-up games at all so presumably MOC doesn't want to throw him straight away.

I take your point about people over-estimating the level of experience required to start a game, but equally I think posters here over-estimate the extent to which young/new players should be played. MOC sees these guys day in, day out at training, he's in a much better position to decide than we are.

Fanning has played well for us, btw, I've no problem with him being picked.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

Thats not really the point though, .ak was saying he just isnt good enough to start but Darragh Fanning started 12 games last season, I sometimes think people overestimate what level young players need to be performing at to get starts

Darragh Fanning is a winger, McGrath is a 9. Literally at complete opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of experience required to start for a pro team. Fanning also has professional experience from before his time with Leinster.

There is absolutely nothing to be gained from comparing selection policy of our wingers to selection policy of our 9s.

Hopefully we'll see McGrath being capable to step up soon and get some gametime so he can continue to develop, but Boss and Gopperth need to click together early on this season and Reddan needs gametime.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Darragh Fanning is a winger, McGrath is a 9. Literally at complete opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of experience required to start for a pro team. Fanning also has professional experience from before his time with Leinster.

There is absolutely nothing to be gained from comparing selection policy of our wingers to selection policy of our 9s.

Hopefully we'll see McGrath being capable to step up soon and get some gametime so he can continue to develop, but Boss and Gopperth need to click together early on this season and Reddan needs gametime.

Im not comparing them directly as I dont expect McGrath to start 12 games this season or even close to it. Im talking about the original point that McGrath isnt good enough to start for Leinster yet, personally I think he is definitely good enough to starts games at this level

LostArt

Rabbitohs won today which means we'll get Te'o at the end of September at the earliest

awec

Who or what is Steve Crosbie?

ssaye2

awec wrote: »

Who or what is Steve Crosbie?

Our Olding

.ak

ssaye2 wrote: »

Our Olding

Ha, that'd be nice. He's not really though, no where near the same skillset, but very solid individual with the brains to play midfield. Good footballer.

Buer

awec wrote: »

Who or what is Steve Crosbie?

He was outhalf on the Ireland U20 side Olding was on. Can play 10, 12 and 15. Good hands and takes the ball to the gain line well. Can't kick very well though when I last watched him.

ssaye2

.ak wrote: »

Ha, that'd be nice. He's not really though, no where near the same skillset, but very solid individual with the brains to play midfield. Good footballer.

Whooshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

.ak

ssaye2 wrote: »

Whooshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

You know the saying, if you have to explain the joke...

ssaye2

.ak wrote: »

You know the saying, if you have to explain the joke...

go on....................:pac:

.ak

ssaye2 wrote: »

go on....................:pac:

Touché.

Winters

former legend wrote: »

Just for anyone who missed it, Liam Williams picked up no suspension after his red card against Ulster, so will be available tomorrow. Hooray!

He was sent off in the final minutes so what punishment on top of the second yellow does the red give? I assumed an automatic next game ban.

.ak

We would also ask supporters to note that from tomorrow there will be only one big screen in the RDS Arena - a 20 square meters screen positioned between the Grandstand and the North Stand. This decision is beyond the control of Leinster Rugby but a bigger 60 square meters screen will be in place for the next home game against Cardiff Blues on the 26th September. Leinster Rugby will endeavour to explore further options regarding a second screen in conjunction with the RDS.

Bad news for people in the Northstand.

If they just put them at an angle to the pitch like they did a couple of seasons ago they'd only really need one screen.

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

He was outhalf on the Ireland U20 side Olding was on. Can play 10, 12 and 15. Good hands and takes the ball to the gain line well. Can't kick very well though when I last watched him.

Hes a 12 really, could be a decent one too, might be stuck in no mans land a bit as in hes not a 10 not a 12. He is definitely another midfield option though, he was great at slipping through gaps for the U20s

Buer

Tox56 wrote: »

Hes a 12 really, could be a decent one too, might be stuck in no mans land a bit as in hes not a 10 not a 12. He is definitely another midfield option though, he was great at slipping through gaps for the U20s

While I'd like to see him a bit at 12, he's not one (yet). Has only ever started a couple of games there to my knowledge. Vast majority of rugby has been as an outhalf.

armchaircoach

It's interesting to see that Denton has lost out to Marshall again. With either of toner and McCarthy out with Ireland duties at various times of the year, we could end up playing large chunks of the season with a bastardised 2nd row/backrow combo.

Is that really an ideal situation for a team that seems to have a gameplan based on power and breakdown domination. An extra few kilos would also be missed at scrum time.

Uriel.

Dravokivich wrote: »

wait... how big of a box? I'll have to pick up 2 tomorrow...

me too.

20% off in the Stadium lifestyle sports shops - jebus, they might force me to buy the new european jersey afterall :eek:

former legend

armchaircoach wrote: »

It's interesting to see that Denton has lost out to Marshall again. With either of toner and McCarthy out with Ireland duties at various times of the year, we could end up playing large chunks of the season with a bastardised 2nd row/backrow combo.

Is that really an ideal situation for a team that seems to have a gameplan based on power and breakdown domination. An extra few kilos would also be missed at scrum time.

Is this not exactly the opposite complaint to what has just gone on above re: McGrath?

Denton is, I think we'd all agree, a pretty limited option who can do a job but is never going to be a first-choice player. Marshall is a couple of years younger, very short on senior experience and might have more to offer long-term. With Toner and McCarthy starting, this is exactly the sort of game in which to have a less experienced guy on the bench.

And if MOC is being criticised for being too reliant on a bash-it-up-the-middle game plan, having a guy who is a bit more mobile can't be a bad thing?

(I also think McCarthy is going to be peripheral to the national team this season).

.ak

Uriel. wrote: »

me too.

20% off in the Stadium lifestyle sports shops - jebus, they might force me to buy the new european jersey afterall :eek:

Where'd you see the 20% message?

Might buy some more training tee's. For anyone who's looking for a decent tee for training/gym the dry training shirt is the business. With 20% off it's probably around €20 also, cheap as chips.

Tox56

former legend wrote: »

Is this not exactly the opposite complaint to what has just gone on above re: McGrath?

We arent all one mass MOC-hating machine without independent thought, personally I think its great to see Marshall there for a second week in a row, if he can get a run of games together he might return to the form of last year, and yes he has the potential to offer more than Denton

armchaircoach

former legend wrote: »

Is this not exactly the opposite complaint to what has just gone on above re: McGrath?

Denton is, I think we'd all agree, a pretty limited option who can do a job but is never going to be a first-choice player. Marshall is a couple of years younger, very short on senior experience and might have more to offer long-term. With Toner and McCarthy starting, this is exactly the sort of game in which to have a less experienced guy on the bench.

And if MOC is being criticised for being too reliant on a bash-it-up-the-middle game plan, having a guy who is a bit more mobile can't be a bad thing?

(I also think McCarthy is going to be peripheral to the national team this season).

I think your missing my point. Marshall at 6 foot 3 is way too small for a modern lock. We seem to have lost more locks then we brought in, and as you pointed out one of the ones we kept is a bit of a dud.

It just seems a bit at odds with our on field tactics, and shows a lack of joined up thinking across the management of the branch

former legend

armchaircoach wrote: »

I think your missing my point. Marshall at 6 foot 3 is way too small for a modern lock. We seem to have lost more locks then we brought in, and as you pointed out one of the ones we kept is a bit of a dud.

It just seems a bit at odds with our on field tactics, and shows a lack of joined up thinking across the management of the branch

Marshall is down as 6'5" on the Leinster website and certainly looks bigger than 6'3". Not huge for a lock but not tiny.

As for joined-up thinking, well, Kane Douglas at 6'8" and 123kg probably fits the bill. As for keeping duds, MOC did ship Roux out to Connacht for a while.

awec

.ak wrote: »

Where'd you see the 20% message?

Might buy some more training tee's. For anyone who's looking for a decent tee for training/gym the dry training shirt is the business. With 20% off it's probably around €20 also, cheap as chips.

there's no Ireland version of that top I noticed.

Is it always 20% or is that just tomorrow?

CatFromHue

It says he's 6' 5" on the Leinster website.

Even at 6'3" if you partner him with Toner you end up with an average height of 6'5.5" :P

.ak

awec wrote: »

there's no Ireland version of that top I noticed.

Is it always 20% or is that just tomorrow?

There is. I think this is it:

http://shop.irishrugby.ie/training-c3/t-shirts-c14/ireland-graphic-dry-training-tee-green-p2890

Uriel.

.ak wrote: »

Where'd you see the 20% message?

Might buy some more training tee's. For anyone who's looking for a decent tee for training/gym the dry training shirt is the business. With 20% off it's probably around €20 also, cheap as chips.

awec wrote: »

there's no Ireland version of that top I noticed.

Is it always 20% or is that just tomorrow?

It came in on the Leinster eZine.
20% up until 13 October.

Leinster eZine

Season Ticket holders 20% off at Life Style Sports

Season Ticket holders! Remember to pick up your Season Ticket holder pack in the RDS this Saturday and use the Life Style Sports voucher enclosed to get 20% off in the stores around the RDS (voucher valid until 13 October).

Life Style Sports is delighted to welcome Leinster supporters back to the RDS this Saturday, and their staff will be more than happy to help in the stores around the Arena tomorrow to show supporters the new Leinster gear for this season.

Season Ticket holders also receive 10% off all full price products in Life Style Sports throughout the year.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Hopefully we'll see McGrath being capable to step up soon and get some gametime so he can continue to develop, but Boss and Gopperth need to click together early on this season and Reddan needs gametime.

Can you explain how we'll see that if he doesn't get meaningful gametime?

Last season there were only 2 games where he got a decent run out. Zebre (40 mins) and Treviso (30 mins), the 2 worst teams in the league. This being the season after he started a game against the Ospreys that would have determined whether we had a home semi-final or not. And he acquitted himself quite well by all accounts in that game.

Now add into the equation the form Boss has had. Look at last week for example. If you had to pick which of the 2 scrum halves performed better which would you select? I didn't see the Northampton game, but all the reports from that were that the change at half-backs made a world of difference to how we played.

For years people here had a go at Kidney for selecting the same old faces when there were better performing alternatives not being given a shot. Is this not what we're starting to see here? We can come up with all the excuses in the world for the selection, but the simple fact right now is that McGrath is playing better than Boss but still struggling for game time. And the kid won't get any better watching from the sidelines.

former legend

Boss didn't play well last week but neither did McGrath.

awec

.ak wrote: »

There is. I think this is it:

http://shop.irishrugby.ie/training-c3/t-shirts-c14/ireland-graphic-dry-training-tee-green-p2890

That has different sleeves I think?

molloyjh

former legend wrote: »

Boss didn't play well last week but neither did McGrath.

Ah come on, he was better than Boss.

.ak

awec wrote: »

That has different sleeves I think?

Yeah the cuffs aren't quite as long. I'll try it on over the weekend and let you know.

former legend

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah come on, he was better than Boss.

But he didn't play well; he didn't stake a claim to the jersey IMO.

molloyjh

former legend wrote: »

But he didn't play well; he didn't stake a claim to the jersey IMO.

Oh well then. He didn't stake a claim to the jersey so give it to a guy who played worse than he did, and has been in poor form for a while. That makes perfect sense....

At this stage McGrath is playing better, has a higher ceiling and a longer future with the club. He couldn't get a look in last season when Reddan was injured and Boss' form was poor. How is he ever meant to stake a claim to a jersey he is spending so little time in?

former legend

molloyjh wrote: »

Oh well then. He didn't stake a claim to the jersey so give it to a guy who played worse than he did, and has been in poor form for a while. That makes perfect sense....

At this stage McGrath is playing better, has a higher ceiling and a longer future with the club. He couldn't get a look in last season when Reddan was injured and Boss' form was poor. How is he ever meant to stake a claim to a jersey he is spending so little time in?

How can you say McGrath is "playing better" on the basis of 15 minutes in which he didn't play very well? Is that really enough to base a decision on?

You know who has seen a lot of McGrath? The coaches. Read back on what you're saying; Reddan was injured, Boss was off-form and still, they didn't call on McGrath. Maybe he's just not up to it?

I've no great love for Boss but the argument for McGrath isn't that strong, IMO.

armchaircoach

CatFromHue wrote: »

It says he's 6' 5" on the Leinster website.

Even at 6'3" if you partner him with Toner you end up with an average height of 6'5.5" :P

Ultimate rugby app has him at 6 3. So he's probably about 6 4ish. Which is still a bit on the small size for a lock. But better than what I thought.

He may well develop into a good lock, but I would see him as more of a 5.5

Ah Rugby, where 6'4" is considered small, never change

Neil3030

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah Rugby, where 6'4" is considered small, never change

Tis funny alright. On a related note, people often speak about Michael Jordan, and how good he was despite 'only' being 6"6.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Can you explain how we'll see that if he doesn't get meaningful gametime?

We don't need to see it. It needs to happen in training and in other areas. The coaches don't just throw players in randomly to see how they'll play, they have a decent idea about it.

McGrath is young and inexperienced. Boss is an accomplished player with huge experience and is a natural game manager, it's easy for me to understand why Boss is starting ahead of McGrath. There are plenty of great examples out there of exactly why you do not throw a 9 into the deep end (Conor Murray for example).