Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

awec

Big Nelly wrote: »

Just wondering if there is something like Premier League where a player on loan can't play against the team that he is loaned from.....

It would be a conflict of interest surely.

Tox56

former legend wrote: »

That's my take on it.

What's the alternative? Unless we play Macken there (and I don't think MOC fancies him at all), whoever you pick at 13, it's putting a square peg in a round hole, might as well give Te'o a lash and see how he gets on.

In terms of giving players a lash,Kirchner has to at least be tried there. If Fitzgerald comes back there will be even more reason to do so as otherwise we're leaving one of Kirchner, McF or Fitz on the bench. Even if he doesn't come back while we've got a massive problem position, we have a guy who has started in that position internationally on the books who hasn't been tried yet. Ideally he plays well there and it gives us a very good option

stephen_n

molloyjh wrote: »

Did we? The Glasgow game in the final was a great performance, but what makes any of us think it was any more or less a one-off than the Northampton game. False dawns are nothing new to Irish rugby fans remember...

The truth I think is somewhere in the middle. ak is right in that it takes time to bed down a new system and given the learnings MOC has had to take on board (not least the player welfare which he hasn't had to deal with before) this season was always going to be the one to judge him on.

However Theta too has a point that it should not take a full season to get the basics right. If MOC really was ignoring attacking/back play to get those basics right then he has only really tried to implement half of his "style" so far. And at best it took an entire season to do that. If that really is what happened then that's a hell of a long time to get the foundations right. It's not like Leinster were a complete shambles that needed to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Firstly I think it's on record, I'm not a big fan of MOC, but I think he did enough last season to meet the criteria of Theta's post. It was frustrating and at times, frankly **** to watch, yet I don't think it's fair to say the Glasgow game was an isolated incident, we were very inconsistent. The Glasgow game gave us hope, that we are getting ready to integrate the more expansive approach to our game, the next few months will be the proof of that though. If you take into account our backline against Glasgow was missing Sexton, BOD and Nacewa, from the previous season with Joe, how well we played that day was pretty awesome. I think MOC has done enough so far to have the backing of the fans, if we are preforming at xmas, the way we did in Glasgow, then we have big problems, as clearly he isn't able to get the players to do what he wants.

former legend

molloyjh wrote: »

That's a total cop out. And I'm not even in the MOC out brigade.

Even with the loss of those players there was still plenty of talent in the Leinster squad. And most MOC out people I've spoken to weren't expecting 2012 levels of performance. Most had adjusted their expectations to factor in the loss of Jonny and Isa. We still didn't perform to our potential for the vast majority of the season. And it's pretty much blind denial to suggest otherwise.

Get up the yard molloyjh.

I'm not copping out of anything. I think we did fine last season so I don't have anything to cop out of.

But if you're suggesting that a team can lose players of the quality of Sexton, Nacewa, Strauss and not feel it? Is that reasonable? The remaining guys are great, yes, still plenty of talent, but undeniably less talent than the previous year (and we were actually worse in Joe's last season).

And you are in the MOC out brigade. You just won't admit it.

Tox56

former legend wrote: »

But if you're suggesting that a team can lose players of the quality of Sexton, Nacewa, Strauss and not feel it? Is that reasonable?

He could hardly have addressed this more directly

And most MOC out people I've spoken to weren't expecting 2012 levels of performance. Most had adjusted their expectations to factor in the loss of Jonny and Isa.

former legend

Tox56 wrote: »

He could hardly have addressed this more directly

Yeah he typed that but totally discounts it when making his actual argument.

ssaye2

http://www.thescore.ie/richardt-strauss-ireland-injury-fit-1672353-Sep2014/

We’re hoping to have him back before the Munster game.”

As the physios wave goodbye to one South African hamstring though, another comes through the door. Zane Kirchner suffered his injury during the comfortable win over Scarlets on Saturday.
The fullback was undergoing a scan to determine the seriousness of the injury as Caputo was speaking, but he did add that he would be ‘surprised to see him this weekend’.
Shane Jennings was another injury concern after the bonus-point win after the flanker did not emerge after half-time at the RDS.
“Shane got a bang on his shoulder,” Caputo said, “we just decided to keep him off the pitch. From my understanding neither of those are too serious. They’ll be properly diagnosed today.”




http://www.thescore.ie/eoin-reddan-leinster-underdogs-connacht-1672184-Sep2014/

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

Also, this thing of knocking Murphy for the skills issues gets me. People were so happy to give Joe the credit for our great skills when we were massively accurate. As soon as that changes the same position (head coach) is suddenly less responsible. Either Richie and Joe together contributed to a high level of accuracy, and therefore Richie and Matt together have contributed to the drop in accuracy, or it was all Richie all along and Joe and Matt aren't responsible.

That's far too black and white, in fairness. Completely different coaching set ups would probably have different roles involved. Some coaches are hands on, some are not.

I'd say the most likely was that Schmidt took the lead in the skills coaching and Murphy now does. Schmidt was known for taking a heavy role in all aspects. Many other head coaches don't take such an active role in all areas. When Schmidt arrived, he was reportedly shocked at the standard of handling in the squad and started addressing it himself.

Neither MOC nor Murphy are a patch on him in terms of their ability to coach attention to detail and execution. If skills are failing, Murphy needs to take a big chunk of responsibility; it's his specific remit.

Neil3030

Not sure if the handling is all that changed under MOC. I don't think you can unlearn to catch and throw a ball in the space of a few months.

Schmidt was pretty low risk, attacking space that was generated with quick ball, turnovers, set-piece moves etc.

I think MOC's attacking game plan is higher risk, with lengthier phases, so the probability of a handling error increases.

OldRio

S4C 10.00 pm tonight. Leinster v Scarlets.

The complete game is being repeated with English commentary available. For any who wish to re watch.

errlloyd

OldRio wrote: »

S4C 10.00 pm tonight. Leinster v Scarlets.

The complete game is being repeated with English commentary available. For any who wish to re watch.

Thank you so much.

molloyjh

former legend wrote: »

Get up the yard molloyjh.

I'm not copping out of anything. I think we did fine last season so I don't have anything to cop out of.

But if you're suggesting that a team can lose players of the quality of Sexton, Nacewa, Strauss and not feel it? Is that reasonable? The remaining guys are great, yes, still plenty of talent, but undeniably less talent than the previous year (and we were actually worse in Joe's last season).

And you are in the MOC out brigade. You just won't admit it.

You're either with us or against us eh? Fair enough if you don't believe I can have an opinion somewhere in the middle. It really doesn't change the fact that I do. I've been very clear on my position all along. I have concerns but factoring in the mitigating elements I'm not willing to make a judgement yet. As stephen_n said the Pro12 final gave us hope, and the Scarlets game renewed that after an abysmal performance in Glasgow. Now let's see if we can build on it. If we can then we'll all be happy. If not then serious questions need to be asked.

Oh, and MOC Out rabble, rabble. :rolleyes:

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

That's far too black and white, in fairness. Completely different coaching set ups would probably have different roles involved. Some coaches are hands on, some are not.

I'd say the most likely was that Schmidt took the lead in the skills coaching and Murphy now does. Schmidt was known for taking a heavy role in all aspects. Many other head coaches don't take such an active role in all areas. When Schmidt arrived, he was reportedly shocked at the standard of handling in the squad and started addressing it himself.

Neither MOC nor Murphy are a patch on him in terms of their ability to coach attention to detail and execution. If skills are failing, Murphy needs to take a big chunk of responsibility; it's his specific remit.

Yeah fair enough, but then we have no idea what way that is or was split. We don't know what level of focus was being placed on it by which head coach.

But sure we haven't seen evidence of it being an issue yet this season so hopefully that means it's been dealt with.

Buer

True enough, all just guesswork for us, really.

I hope people don't expect to see glowing skill levels this weekend, however. Connacht and The Sportsground are the two great levellers in Pro12 rugby.I expect another dogged fight with us hopefully coming out on top.

The Lost Sheep

Buer wrote: »

True enough, all just guesswork for us, really.

I hope people don't expect to see glowing skill levels this weekend, however. Connacht and The Sportsground are the two great levellers in Pro12 rugby.I expect another dogged fight with us hopefully coming out on top.

Are many on here thinking of coming over to Galway for the game? Im stewarding at the game.. first pro game in Sportsground i'll have been to.

Yes there will be some who'll expect glowing skills etc but many should know at this stage that Connacht in the Sportsground don't let you get that usually and games don't follow that and tough dogged affair is guaranteed

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

True enough, all just guesswork for us, really.

I hope people don't expect to see glowing skill levels this weekend, however. Connacht and The Sportsground are the two great levellers in Pro12 rugby.I expect another dogged fight with us hopefully coming out on top.

The weather for Friday looks decent. We're used to playing there around Christmas and New Year. That should make for a better spectacle. The big thing for me is what players are made available to us. McGrath and Healy have been available for both games so far. At least one of those will be rested you'd think. Same for Rossy and maybe even Cronin. At a guess I'd say we'll see something like:

1. J McGrath
2. Byrne
3. Moore
4. Toner
5. Denton
6. McLaughlin
7. SOB
8. Conan

9. Reddan
10. Gopperth
11. Fanning
12. Madigan
13. Macken
14. McFadden
15. R Kearney

16. Dundon
17. McCarthy
18. Furlong
19. Marshall
20. Ruddock
21. L McGrath
22. M McGrath

Tox56

molloyjh wrote: »

The weather for Friday looks decent. We're used to playing there around Christmas and New Year. That should make for a better spectacle. The big thing for me is what players are made available to us. McGrath and Healy have been available for both games so far. At least one of those will be rested you'd think. Same for Rossy and maybe even Cronin. At a guess I'd say we'll see something like:

1. J McGrath
2. Byrne
3. Moore
4. Toner
5. Denton
6. McLaughlin
7. SOB
8. Conan

9. Reddan
10. Gopperth
11. Fanning
12. Madigan
13. Macken
14. McFadden
15. R Kearney

16. Dundon
17. McCarthy
18. Furlong
19. Marshall
20. Ruddock
21. L McGrath
22. M McGrath

I think it will be a stronger pack than that, would be very surprised (albeit very interested) if Byrne started this.

McGrath Cronin Moore/Ross
McCarthy Toner
McLaughlin SOB Ryan

I would like to see Conan start but that backrow would follow the pattern of this season much more closely, Conan hasn't even been on the bench yet.

That said I actually wouldn't completely rule out a start for Furlong at TH. I would also see Healy on the bench, he was absolutely rampaging off the bench last week and he will be desperate to make another big point with McGrath going so well.

DelMcG

I'd say Marty Moore will start for no other reason than to give him game time. Hasn't seen a minute of rugby so far. Furlong will see plenty of play during the international windows.

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

The weather for Friday looks decent. We're used to playing there around Christmas and New Year.

Would you believe we've only played there during winter 3 times since the beginning of the CL?

Weather is so poxy we just remember it as being January!

molloyjh

Tox56 wrote: »

I think it will be a stronger pack than that, would be very surprised (albeit very interested) if Byrne started this.

McGrath Cronin Moore/Ross
McCarthy Toner
McLaughlin SOB Ryan

I would like to see Conan start but that backrow would follow the pattern of this season much more closely, Conan hasn't even been on the bench yet.

That said I actually wouldn't completely rule out a start for Furlong at TH. I would also see Healy on the bench, he was absolutely rampaging off the bench last week and he will be desperate to make another big point with McGrath going so well.

Good Lord I completely forgot about Dippy, and he's been going really well so far. You're probably right re the back row so.

Buer wrote: »

Would you believe we've only played there during winter 3 times since the beginning of the CL?

Weather is so poxy we just remember it as being January!

Also true. Hopefully the forecast is accurate this time....

former legend

Buer wrote: »

True enough, all just guesswork for us, really.

I hope people don't expect to see glowing skill levels this weekend, however. Connacht and The Sportsground are the two great levellers in Pro12 rugby.I expect another dogged fight with us hopefully coming out on top.

Yeah it's going to be an awful game, always is when we play them.

vienne86

Buer wrote: »

True enough, all just guesswork for us, really.

I hope people don't expect to see glowing skill levels this weekend, however. Connacht and The Sportsground are the two great levellers in Pro12 rugby.I expect another dogged fight with us hopefully coming out on top.

Connacht always seem to up their game another notch for Leinster in the Sportsground.

former legend

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why Roux is allowed play against us but Cooney is not?

.ak

former legend wrote: »

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why Roux is allowed play against us but Cooney is not?

Presumably because Roux didn't do a pre-season with us?

Podge_irl

Cause Roux is ****?

vienne86

Podge_irl wrote: »

Cause Roux is ****?

You seem to be right. I had very high hopes for Roux, and always rooted for him - maybe because he was the build of Nathan Hines! - but I was very disappointed in the end, and am glad we let him go to Connacht.

Tox56

They said Cooney would be rehabbing from an injury with us before he went to Galway and he has been in all the training pics recently so maybe he isn't even in Connacht yet

former legend

Tox56 wrote: »

They said Cooney would be rehabbing from an injury with us before he went to Galway and he has been in all the training pics recently so maybe he isn't even in Connacht yet

But apparently it's in his contract that he can't play against Leinster.

Yeah, maybe it's just that they don't rate Roux at all and aren't worried about him playing against us. Big motivating factor for Quinn to put in a good shift on Friday so.

Tox56

former legend wrote: »

But apparently it's in his contract that he can't play against Leinster.

Yeah, maybe it's just that they don't rate Roux at all and aren't worried about him playing against us. Big motivating factor for Quinn to put in a good shift on Friday so.

I saw that but it could be a roundabout way of saying it's in his contract that he will rehab with us before going to Galway. It would be very strange to make a clause like you suggest just for one of them and as you say pretty damming on Roux

.ak

A scrumhalf would have a much better overview of our moves and set pieces than a forward.

Podge_irl

vienne86 wrote: »

You seem to be right. I had very high hopes for Roux, and always rooted for him - maybe because he was the build of Nathan Hines! - but I was very disappointed in the end, and am glad we let him go to Connacht.

Likewise. He looked excellent when he first arrived before getting injured. I still think he has the physical attributes but he's so bloody lazy on the pitch.

Teferi

Tox56 wrote: »

They said Cooney would be rehabbing from an injury with us before he went to Galway and he has been in all the training pics recently so maybe he isn't even in Connacht yet

I think he is Connacht now over the last week or so.

S12b

former legend wrote: »

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why Roux is allowed play against us but Cooney is not?

Where have you seen this?

former legend

S12b wrote: »

Where have you seen this?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/on-loan-roux-available-for-connacht-to-face-leinster-1.1929840

vienne86

Podge_irl wrote: »

Likewise. He looked excellent when he first arrived before getting injured. I still think he has the physical attributes but he's so bloody lazy on the pitch.

I think a shoulder injury s hard to get over for a lock, and I was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt when he came back from that, but yes, he then just seemed disinterested in playing. Such a pity. But I'll watch him closely on Friday.

ionadnapokot

Its nice to know that my Madigan appreciation is not a lonely existence:pac:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro12/leinster-and-ireland-should-pick-madigan-and-select-the-other-14-around-him-30589196.html

.ak

TW with another balanced article.

vienne86

.ak wrote: »

TW with another balanced article.

He's right about the fixtures thing though.

.ak

vienne86 wrote: »

He's right about the fixtures thing though.

He doesn't really mention the timeline of the fixture selections and that it's the TV deals that determine kick off times.

S12b

Independent reporting SOB and McFadden will both miss the Connacht game....did I read somewhere that Rhys Ruddock is unavailable for another few weeks???

.ak

Yeah but those few weeks are up so I think he's good to go. McFadden and SOB out is a bit of blow. Looks like Fanning and McGrath will need to start. So, my revised team would be...

Healy
Cronin
Furlong
Toner
McCarthy
Ruddock
Ryan
Heaslip
Boss
Gopperth
McGrath
Madigan
Macken
Fanning
Rob Kearney

Byrne
McGrath
Ross
Marshall
Locky
Reddan
Marsh
SCM/Crosbie

.ak

If Rhys isn't fit then Locky to 6 and Conan to the bench.

Larbre34

Jack McGrath deserves to keep the starting berth. Healy will benefit from a couple more bench appearances, he'll be like a bull.

.ak

I'd be happy either way, just without SOB I think the pack needs an extra bit of oomph.

dub_skav

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Its nice to know that my Madigan appreciation is not a lonely existence:pac:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro12/leinster-and-ireland-should-pick-madigan-and-select-the-other-14-around-him-30589196.html

What's this meant to mean? Genuine question

"Leinster and their new-age support"

.ak

dub_skav wrote: »

What's this meant to mean? Genuine question

"Leinster and their new-age support"

Gone are the days of the Leinster supporter with his prawn sandwiches and his son carrying the iced frap, in are times of the middle-aged men talking about cars and youthful faces covered in beards and smelling of craft beers.

.ak

Connacht vs Leinster at Sportsground

Referee: Peter Fitzgibbon (Ireland)
Assistant Referees: Eddie Hogan-O'Connell (Ireland), Olly Hodges (Ireland)
TMO: Seamus Flannery (Ireland)


Sigh....

sydthebeat

.ak wrote: »

Connacht vs Leinster at Sportsground

Referee: Peter Fitzgibbon (Ireland)
Assistant Referees: Eddie Hogan-O'Connell (Ireland), Olly Hodges (Ireland)
TMO: Seamus Flannery (Ireland)


Sigh....

peter "everybody look at me" fitzgibbon......

that takes about 3 points off leinsters spread

.ak

I just think he's a very naive ref and, for some reason, comes across as very nervous. The only red he's ever dished out was for William's double yellow last week. That says a lot.

I'm sure he's a top bloke though, seems to come across well, but not a ref that has a feel for the game.

Eponymous

.ak wrote: »

Gone are the days of the Leinster supporter with his prawn sandwiches and his son carrying the iced frap, in are times of the middle-aged men talking about cars and youthful faces covered in beards and smelling of craft beers.

And now that you can get some decent craft beers in cans we'll be completely insufferable, passing around IPAs that nobody has heard of so everyone can try them!