Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

LostArt

He's getting an extra year in the academy due to the change to 12, no?

Hagz

If things don't pan out for him, Ulster would do well to pick him up and try develop him as a 6/8. They seem a little behind on developing back-row talent. Conor Joyce is the only guy I can think of and I think Coghlan is a better talent than him.

FellasFellas

Fairly sure that Coghlan is going back to cricket after next season.

sports_mad_lad

Reckon Bundee Aki signing for Connacht is a sign that Henshaw could be on his way to the RDS next season? Or else that Lam still sees him as a fullback for the time being? Or is it just replacing Eoin Griffin?

Too many questions...



*buries head in sand*

CatFromHue

Connacht have lost Griffin, Tonnetti, and So'ailo this season from their midfield so they do need players there.

Hagz

Aki is mainly a 12 isn't he? They're losing Griffin and Tonetti as well as McSharry being injury prone.

.ak

Jackass your Fijian tank scored a hatrick today against the cheetahs.

[Jackass]

Very lucky that other results went our way, in so far as Glasgow beating Munster. If we get two home BP wins against Edinburgh and Treviso and a losing BP away to Ulster, it should be enough to secure top spot still.

Coming into business end of the season, usually where we would look to peak, we've lost two games that have almost made the whole season fall apart.

Winning the Pro12 is the only way to salvage our season now (whilst presumably still playing crap rugby for the rest of the season), but even a winning season and MOC will still have to prove himself to a lot of the Leinster supporters, but Pro12 is absolutely essential to win to take something out of this season.

We'll need to up our game for next season, a good start would be some decent signings in the summer, but depressing times as Leinster fans, even though on paper we're not too bad, but by performance the season has been a disaster.

former legend

[Jackass] wrote: »

Very lucky that other results went our way, in so far as Glasgow beating Munster. If we get two home BP wins against Edinburgh and Treviso and a losing BP away to Ulster, it should be enough to secure top spot still.

Coming into business end of the season, usually where we would look to peak, we've lost two games that have almost made the whole season fall apart.

Winning the Pro12 is the only way to salvage our season now (whilst presumably still playing crap rugby for the rest of the season), but even a winning season and MOC will still have to prove himself to a lot of the Leinster supporters, but Pro12 is absolutely essential to win to take something out of this season.

We'll need to up our game for next season, a good start would be some decent signings in the summer, but depressing times as Leinster fans, even though on paper we're not too bad, but by performance the season has been a disaster.

What the hell is this about? The season is falling apart? We need to salvage it? Depressing times?

We're top of the league, we lost in a HC quarter final away to the current champions.

Did you expect us to be the invincible champions of Europe for ever? Did you think that we could just lose key players and not feel it?

Ridiculous post. Absolutely ridiculous.

vienne86

former legend wrote: »

What the hell is this about? The season is falling apart? We need to salvage it? Depressing times?

We're top of the league, we lost in a HC quarter final away to the current champions.

Did you expect us to be the invincible champions of Europe for ever? Did you think that we could just lose key players and not feel it?

Ridiculous post. Absolutely ridiculous.

I agree that the season is not a disaster at all, but the way we are playing is VERY worrying.

wicklowwonder

vienne86 wrote: »

I agree that the season is not a disaster at all, but the way we are playing is VERY worrying.

I wouldn't worry about how we are playing if we had a plan B or even changed plan A to suit certain opposition but it just seems to be the same plan every game, no change no matter how much we are losing by.

I expect if MOC has his way we would see two massive centres brought in and a more kicking fly half. He seems to have brought his style with him and it's his way or the highway while with Joe tactics we saw players changed depending on what was best suited to beat what was in front you. Cheika was similar to MOC in terms of management style but he at least he let the backs do the stuff while installing a hardness in the forwards never seen at Leinster before.

Be interesting in a few years to hear what the likes of BOD, Darcy, Heaslip really think about MOC.

vienne86

wicklowwonder wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about how we are playing if we had a plan B or even changed plan A to suit certain opposition but it just seems to be the same plan every game, no change no matter how much we are losing by.

I expect if MOC has his way we would see two massive centres brought in and a more kicking fly half. He seems to have brought his style with him and it's his way or the highway while with Joe tactics we saw players changed depending on what was best suited to beat what was in front you. Cheika was similar to MOC in terms of management style but he at least he let the backs do the stuff while installing a hardness in the forwards never seen at Leinster before.

Be interesting in a few years to hear what the likes of BOD, Darcy, Heaslip really think about MOC.

Spot on. No plan B was so obvious against Northampton in the Aviva.

sydthebeat

vienne86 wrote: »

Spot on. No plan B was so obvious against Northampton in the Aviva.

Stupid individual errors is what cost us in the aviva.

The game plan never had a chance if you cannot execute it.

irishbucsfan

"No game plan" and "no plan B" have to be a couple of the most annoying cliches in sports.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

"No game plan" and "no plan B" have to be a couple of the most annoying cliches in sports.

True. But we have been spoiled by Schmidt and his ability to coach different scenarios for different parts of the game depending on if the team are leading or not, what point of the game, and what part of the pitch you're in. Murray alluded to this sort of micromanaged scenario breakdown before the French game. This is something we've always seen from schmidt, perhaps the most famous example was the saints final in Cardiff. In the BOI videos the coaches talked about how they felt they needed to change certain things; how we held onto the ball, how we carried, when we kicked and how to change the scrum. We came out with a different gameplan and the rest is history.

You might be annoyed by people using the term no plan b but in the context it's being used the posters are right. MOC has very much demonstrated his tactics include repeating the same tactics until they're right. Which tbh most coaches do. If you're deploying a heavy kicking game and it's not coming off you generally ask for those kicks to be more accurate. I haven't seen anything from this team that suggests they can change how they approach a game when they're losing.

Swan Curry

Here's a simple question.If Leinster make it to the Pro12 final,do you see us beating Ulster,Munster or Glasgow with how we're currently playing?I sure don't.It's all well and good to be top of the league,but if we can't win in knockout matches then we may as well not have made the playoffs.

former legend

Swan Curry wrote: »

Here's a simple question.If Leinster make it to the Pro12 final,do you see us beating Ulster,Munster or Glasgow with how we're currently playing?I sure don't.It's all well and good to be top of the league,but if we can't win in knockout matches then we may as well not have made the playoffs.

We beat Munster two weeks ago! Ulster are decimated by injury. Yeah I'd make us favourites against any of them.

Buer

Swan Curry wrote: »

Here's a simple question.If Leinster make it to the Pro12 final,do you see us beating Ulster,Munster or Glasgow with how we're currently playing?I sure don't.It's all well and good to be top of the league,but if we can't win in knockout matches then we may as well not have made the playoffs.

We've beaten all three of them at home which is where it looks hugely likely for any final to be.

I don't see how you couldn't see us beating them. It's not a guarantee but any stretch but we are now massive favourites to win the title.

Buer

.ak wrote: »

You might be annoyed by people using the term no plan b but in the context it's being used the posters are right. MOC has very much demonstrated his tactics include repeating the same tactics until they're right. Which tbh most coaches do. If you're deploying a heavy kicking game and it's not coming off you generally ask for those kicks to be more accurate. I haven't seen anything from this team that suggests they can change how they approach a game when they're losing.

I agree to an extent, .ak. It's a term used though as a blanket reference to us losing. We're losing and don't manage to turn it around and win so "there's no plan B". I think MOC hasn't devised a successful plan for us but I do think we change things on the field.

Plan B does not necessarily equate to something so discernible as we can see a team go from a kicking to a running game (and that isn't directed at you, .ak). We have changed the game plan in a number of games in terms of how we attack, position our carriers, the use of the ball around the ruck etc.

I recall the away game against Connacht where people were complaining about us not having any game plan when there was one clear as day and it was extremely effective. Sometimes, you have to take that term with a rather large pinch of salt.

.ak

Swan Curry wrote: »

Here's a simple question.If Leinster make it to the Pro12 final,do you see us beating Ulster,Munster or Glasgow with how we're currently playing?I sure don't.It's all well and good to be top of the league,but if we can't win in knockout matches then we may as well not have made the playoffs.

Glasgow would be my biggest worry (no offence to my interprovincial brothers!)

BazPM

So Leinster are announcing a top class lock signing next week

CIARAN_BOYLE

BazPM wrote: »

So Leinster are announcing a top class lock signing next week

And have given Bent an 80K a season 2 year deal

errlloyd

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

And have given Bent an 80K a season 2 year deal

Wow, they don't usually have that much detail of the salary, it's probably less than I thought

Mahatma Geansai

BazPM wrote: »

So Leinster are announcing a top class lock signing next week

Leinster don't really need a top class lock, the just need to bolster the depth as Toner/McCarthy are good enough as a starting pair. Cullen is your third choice, but he will be no loss. I can't imagine Roux/Denton/Marshall ever being good enough for professional rugby in Ireland if they can't get ahead of him in the pecking order by this stage.

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Leinster don't really need a top class lock, the just need to bolster the depth as Toner/McCarthy are good enough as a starting pair. Cullen is your third choice, but he will be no loss. I can't imagine Roux/Denton/Marshall ever being good enough for professional rugby in Ireland if they can't get ahead of him in the pecking order by this stage.

They need one top class NIQ lock to cover injury and internationals. It's not realistic to expect Mccarthy and Toner to make it through the season without injury if both are going to be involved internationally. So a signing is necessary and has to be H Cup quality if possible.

The rest of the forwards are grand.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Leinster don't really need a top class lock, the just need to bolster the depth as Toner/McCarthy are good enough as a starting pair. Cullen is your third choice, but he will be no loss. I can't imagine Roux/Denton/Marshall ever being good enough for professional rugby in Ireland if they can't get ahead of him in the pecking order by this stage.

Agree with you on Cullen Roux Denton, I figure we need a new lock at Leinster.

Not necessarily a hines or a thorn quality player, rather someone, prrobably a super rugby starter but non international or fringe international who can compete with Toner/McCarthy and be a useful set of fresh legs off the bench.

Buer

Will be very interesting to see who the lock is. I don't think it will be a top class lock in terms of current internationals given the proximity of the RWC.

The current locks for SA, NZ and Australia are:

Botha, Etzebeth, VDM, du Toit.
Whitelock, Romano, Retallick, Thrush, Bird.
Horwill, Simmons, Fardy, Douglas, Timani.

Not sure it will be any of the above, anyway. With that said, there are plenty of locks floating about who aren't in the above group who could do the job for us.

Tox56

Cullen plays because he is club captain and brings that mythical 'experience'. He is not there on form this season

SaveOurLyric

Tox56 wrote: »

Cullen plays because he is club captain and brings that mythical 'experience'. He is not there on form this season

He is there on form. Poor form though it is, its the best we've got because there isnt another option worth a damn at the moment.

Hagz

We definitley need a top class lock in my opinion. McCarthy just doesn't cut it.

BazPM

He doesn't play in the Southern Hemisphere but is from there, there are 3 ms in his full name. #clues

Buer

Dean Mumm.

awec

BazPM wrote: »

He doesn't play in the Southern Hemisphere but is from there, there are 3 ms in his full name. #clues

Enough of this "I know something you don't know" stuff.

If you know who it is - say their name.

If you can't say their name - don't say anything at all.

BazPM

Sorry awec, just having some fun. People like guessing

Swiwi.

awec wrote: »

Enough of this "I know something you don't know" stuff.

If you know who it is - say their name.

If you can't say their name - don't say anything at all.

Mumm's the word :pac:

.ak

Hagz wrote: »

We definitley need a top class lock in my opinion. McCarthy just doesn't cut it.

Jeez really? Personally I think he's our best lock. He's been probably our most consistent pack player this season aside from Jamie and maybe toner, but toner has had a few poor games. I struggle to think of any poor games McCarthy has had and he's probably been our most physical player in the contact area.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Think it's a massive stretch to say McCarthy is a better lock than Toner. For me McCarthy just isn't consistent enough in his performances. Hands like tits don't help either

Tox56

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Think it's a massive stretch to say McCarthy is a better lock than Toner. For me McCarthy just isn't consistent enough in his performances. Hands like tits don't help either

Don't think he's better than Toner at all, but he has put in a lot of big performances recently, definitely good enough imo

.ak

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Think it's a massive stretch to say McCarthy is a better lock than Toner. For me McCarthy just isn't consistent enough in his performances. Hands like tits don't help either

Never really seen an issue with his handling. Isn't on the same level of Cullen or Hines or toner for handling for sure, but he's so good in the tackle area and breakdown it really negates any handling issues - as is the same with most locks.

I never said he was a better lock than toner either. I said he's been more consistent. Toners had some off days. I can't think of any poor games from McCarthy apart from his first few Leinster appearances when he seemed to struggle a bit settling in, but since then he's easily been our best pack performer along with Heaslip. I'd include Healy in that list if he had more minutes played.

I think McCarthy is a bit undersold around these parts and I'm not sure why. Even against Toulon he was good.

Buer

.ak wrote: »

Jeez really? Personally I think he's our best lock. He's been probably our most consistent pack player this season aside from Jamie and maybe toner, but toner has had a few poor games. I struggle to think of any poor games McCarthy has had and he's probably been our most physical player in the contact area.

I think he has had a fine season after a slow start. He has really stepped into the Damien Browne role and taken it to the next level. His work around the rucks has been very strong and his engine is phenomenal. He was massive in some of our best performances such as away to the Ospreys and away to Castres.

I think the criticism of his handling is well overplayed. Of course he knocks the ball on the odd time but I don't see him doing it to the extent that he has bad hands. He doesn't match the more talented ball players at lock like Tuohy, Toner or Ryan but is solid enough. If you look at the stats for the HEC games, he turned over possession only twice in 7 games so is plenty reliable. I recall him having one or two horror shows for Connacht and dropping passes which has led to the idea that he has poor hands.

irishbucsfan

McCarthy misses completely unforgivable tackles (two against Toulon iirc). That's the only part of his game I'd have a problem with really.

.ak

He makes some bone crunching tackles too though. I wouldn't really judge anybody on their missed tackle stats with Leinster right now. Even bod is leaking them in that regard. Leinsters tackling stats have been appalling this season.

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

I think he has had a fine season after a slow start. He has really stepped into the Damien Browne role and taken it to the next level. His work around the rucks has been very strong and his engine is phenomenal. He was massive in some of our best performances such as away to the Ospreys and away to Castres.

I think the criticism of his handling is well overplayed. Of course he knocks the ball on the odd time but I don't see him doing it to the extent that he has bad hands. He doesn't match the more talented ball players at lock like Tuohy, Toner or Ryan but is solid enough. If you look at the stats for the HEC games, he turned over possession only twice in 7 games so is plenty reliable. I recall him having one or two horror shows for Connacht and dropping passes which has led to the idea that he has poor hands.

He also had a handling shocker in one of his Ireland games

thirteen.

Leinsters basics in general have been poor all season.

stephen_n

former legend wrote: »

What the hell is this about? The season is falling apart? We need to salvage it? Depressing times?

We're top of the league, we lost in a HC quarter final away to the current champions.

Did you expect us to be the invincible champions of Europe for ever? Did you think that we could just lose key players and not feel it?

Ridiculous post. Absolutely ridiculous.

Sure just go ahead and ignore the substantive point of the post, that we are playing crap rugby this season and zone in on the other stuff which suits your argument.

wowy

Buer wrote: »

Dean Mumm.

He's signed with exeter until end of 15/16 season.

thirteen.

wowy wrote: »

He's signed with exeter until end of 15/16 season.

So no "Come on Mummy" shouts from the terrace next season then :pac:

irishbucsfan

Brodem McRetallickem

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Brodem McRetallickem

*swiwi explodes*

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

*swiwi explodes*

Ever since he was a wee kid Brodie dreamed of playing for Ireland. When he saw he wasn't going to make it he settled for NZ.

Hugh McMeniman by the way?