Earth leakage clamp meter

Eddieken8

Hey any one out there have any experience with earth leakage clamp meters?
Was thinking about buying one and any advise would be a help. Looking for one that would help track down tricky Rcd faults and some basic appliance testing.

liveandnetural

i have fluke 360 its a mighty machine bought it for fault finding on a large factory that was been rewired in sections and we had to test everything before it was re connected.we did a insulation test first and then if it failed a leakage test to determine what leakage current was or what was the cause

funny thing is that its still sitting in the box two years later .......maybe used it once or twice just to confirim what level of leakage there was on something faulty............but alway found it first with my megger

2011

liveandnetural wrote: »

i have fluke 360 its a mighty machine bought it for fault finding on a large factory that was been rewired in sections and we had to test everything before it was re connected.we did a insulation test first and then if it failed a leakage test to determine what leakage current was or what was the cause

funny thing is that its still sitting in the box two years later .......maybe used it once or twice just to confirim what level of leakage there was on something faulty............but alway found it first with my megger

+1
I always solved RCD issues with a combination of insulation resistance tests and a process of elimination.

Eddieken8

liveandnetural wrote: »

i have fluke 360 its a mighty machine bought it for fault finding on a large factory that was been rewired in sections and we had to test everything before it was re connected.we did a insulation test first and then if it failed a leakage test to determine what leakage current was or what was the cause

funny thing is that its still sitting in the box two years later .......maybe used it once or twice just to confirim what level of leakage there was on something faulty............but alway found it first with my megger

Yea priced the fluke, not sure I could really justify spending that much but. The Rcd fault find would really be it's second purpose,,,,, I'm getting away with the megger too, there has been one or two faults I couldnt find with IR test, Ones I couldn't track down to any one appliance either more what I was putting down to a collection of small earth leaks on verious appliances. Stopped the Rcd dripping by installing a few rcbo's but never really solved the problem.
The main reason I'm looking for one is cos I'm getting a bit of work testing household appliances, not enough work to justify buying a pat tester. but if I add an earth leakage meter combined with my fluke 1653combi tester I could carry out all three tests. Continuity earth test, insulation resistance and earth leakage, not as practical as a pat test but same results.

Eddieken8

2011 wrote: »

+1
I always solved RCD issues with a combination of insulation resistance tests and a process of elimination.

Yea but u can't ir test a running machine, that's fine for testing the wiring istallation but if the problems is not there you could spend a long time by process of elimination find which appliance is causing the fault especially with an interniting fault and then what if it's a collection of earth leakage from various machines that's the problem.
With the likes of the fluke 360 you could test them as they run and measure the EL of each

2011

Eddieken8 wrote: »

Yea but u can't ir test a running machine

You are correct.
I was referring to testing an installation, not an appliance or machine.

tomdempsey200

you can test L+N(joined) to Earth at 250v with appliances connected...that's the usual troubleshooting test with a megger

you couldn't depend on it to solve your problem though and may have to resort to fitting rcbos's

i'd rather have the leakage clamp tester as well...never had one though or an rcd ramp tester

always had to make do with the megger

Sir Arthur Daley

you can test L+N(joined) to Earth at 250v with appliances connected...

While machine is running? :eek:

tomdempsey200

WikiHow wrote: »

While machine is running? :eek:

'connected'



i wouldn't test sensitive equipment

Sir Arthur Daley

i wouldn't test sensitive equipment

Are appliances sensitive equipment?

tomdempsey200

WikiHow wrote: »

Are appliances sensitive equipment?

you've got your regular kitchen stuff and then your hi-tech stuff i suppose

i don't use the 250v test on fixed wiring+ appliances much but it seems to be a standard test

Eddieken8

i'd rather have the leakage clamp tester as well...never had one though or an rcd ramp tester

always had to make do with the megger[/quote]

Yea same as that just don't know a lot about them, they range in prices from €100-€1000, the fluke one is about mid range at €600 and even that would be a little out of my price range.
Apparently you can clamp live and neutral on the Rcd side and it will tell u straight up if it's a cable issue or an appliance, would save you even taking out the megger

Eddieken8

WikiHow wrote: »

Are appliances sensitive equipment?

I test them all and never had a problem, set the megger to 250 and test between (L+N) to earth. Once even tested a playstation, as far as I know this is one of the test a pat test does maybe somebody will correct me here

tomdempsey200

Eddieken8 wrote: »

I test them all and never had a problem, set the megger to 250 and test between (L+N) to earth. Once even tested a playstation, as far as I know this is one of the test a pat test does maybe somebody will correct me here

could be alright

never used on of them either but there would be some form of IR test on the appliance similar to that

tomdempsey200

Eddieken8 wrote: »

Apparently you can clamp live and neutral on the Rcd side and it will tell u straight up if it's a cable issue or an appliance, would save you even taking out the megger

that'll measure leakage or imbalance

but won't tell you if it's fixed wiring or appliances

i assume it'll be mostly appliance leakage( in general)



obviously with the' final circuits' you'd want to be doing at least 1 IR test on outgoing side of rcd to eliminate fixed wiring as the issue ...with appliances removed obviously

Eddieken8

but won't tell you if it's fixed wiring or appliances

But say if it was an intermitand fault and you got a high reading like 20milli ohm's would it not be safe to assume it was an appliance fault. Can a fixed wiring fault give similar readings on a current leakage test

Irish Steve

related.

Had a panic call a while back, a Raclet (indoor electric barbecue type thing) was tripping the ELCB. Took it away for testing, and right enough, it was.

Got on to the manufacturer's service section to see if a replacement element was available, it's totally low tech, a lead connected to a heater element, no switches, nothing, just an element and an earth wire to the metal chassis.

Got put through to the repair section, and their engineer says to me " It's a known issue with these things, make up a short extension lead with the earth disconnected, put the raclet in to it, make sure no one touches it just in case, and turn it on for about 30 minutes. After that, take out the extension lead, and test it again. The insulation in the heater element absorbs water over time, and on an oven, there's no ELCB, so the slight leakage is not an issue, but on these things, because they're on a 13 Amp plug, they have a habit of taking ELCB's out if they've not been used for a few months. 30 minutes on power dries the insulation out, and the problem goes away".

The reason for using a short unearthed lead is because the 13A plug on the lead of the appliance is moulded on, and taking the appliance apart to disconnect the earth at the other end is time consuming.

He was right, and I've had several of them do this over a number of years.

Device like you've mentioned would be ideal for testing/checking something like this, both in terms of proving good/bad and seeing how long it actually needs to fix the problem.

tomdempsey200

Irish Steve wrote: »

related.

Had a panic call a while back, a Raclet (indoor electric barbecue type thing) was tripping the ELCB. Took it away for testing, and right enough, it was.

Got on to the manufacturer's service section to see if a replacement element was available, it's totally low tech, a lead connected to a heater element, no switches, nothing, just an element and an earth wire to the metal chassis.

Got put through to the repair section, and their engineer says to me " It's a known issue with these things, make up a short extension lead with the earth disconnected, put the raclet in to it, make sure no one touches it just in case, and turn it on for about 30 minutes. After that, take out the extension lead, and test it again. The insulation in the heater element absorbs water over time, and on an oven, there's no ELCB, so the slight leakage is not an issue, but on these things, because they're on a 13 Amp plug, they have a habit of taking ELCB's out if they've not been used for a few months. 30 minutes on power dries the insulation out, and the problem goes away".

The reason for using a short unearthed lead is because the 13A plug on the lead of the appliance is moulded on, and taking the appliance apart to disconnect the earth at the other end is time consuming.

He was right, and I've had several of them do this over a number of years.

Device like you've mentioned would be ideal for testing/checking something like this, both in terms of proving good/bad and seeing how long it actually needs to fix the problem.

megger for that problem..leakage tester not needed at all there

storage heaters are the same...they show a low reading on new installs if you check

Irish Steve

Yeah, the megger will show it, but it would be handy to be able to monitor the leakage current real time to know when it's OK to turn the thing off again.

I suspect that many heaters that are normally wired on direct connect are similar, and under normal circumstances, it's not going to be an issue, a small leakage for a short period of time on a safely earthed device won't cause problems, but these darn raclets invariably go south about 10 minutes after the guests that are going to be participating have arrived:D

Have to admit, I've never put storage heaters in, I normally end up at the other end of the scenario, taking the darn things out again. I can well believe it that they are leaky when new.

tomdempsey200

Irish Steve wrote: »

Yeah, the megger will show it, but it would be handy to be able to monitor the leakage current real time to know when it's OK to turn the thing off again.

you cant'
you just disconnected the earth

Irish Steve

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

you cant'
you just disconnected the earth

Yeah,You win that round:P:P

With the right equipment and running on a circuit that doesn't use an ELCB, it would be OK. Not saying that's the way to do it other than on a workshop bench or similar...............:D:D

My workshop welder supply (32A, single breaker single socket dedicated line no ELCB) would work for testing with an earth. Not much else on that phase either.

Eddieken8

Irish Steve wrote: »

Yeah, the megger will show it, but it would be handy to be able to monitor the leakage current real time to know when it's OK to turn the thing off again.

Monitoring the real time current would be an advantage for me, say on testing a washing machine you could tell at which stage of the cycle the problem was.

Megger wouldn't work there unless less u tested the various parts individually.

Any opinions on kewtech, there doing one for around de €200 mark ???