Request addition to swear filter 'Jap'

Terry1985

Hi,

I was unaware that this was a racist term and thought it was a simple abbreviation of 'Japanese' until I was infracted.

The user 'Old Hippy' had extremely strong opinions on this, so to solve this issue site-wide (sorry motors forum) I think we can make an old hippy very happy and avoid future inadvertant infractions adding 'Jap' as a swear word to boards swear filters.

Regards
Terry

The Hill Billy

I wouldn't have thought it particularly offensive myself. But I doubt that there is a strong enough case to add it to the swear filter. Where would it end? Next we'd have to be adding 'Mick', 'Paddy', 'Tadgh', 'Yank', etc, etc...

Daqster

Context and intention is everything, otherwise half the Motor forum would be infracted for using the word, daily.

It all depends on context - you could make an argument that Culchie and Jackeen should also be added to the swear filter, because the context and intention these are both used could be as offensive as Jap or any other derogatory word.

MugMugs

I am truly perplexed as to how that word is in any way offensive.

GLaDOS

Would that not censor any word containing 'jap' as a result?

For example, shite comes out as ****e, because shit is censored (unless you deliberately go around it :pac:). The filter can't distinguish between the word individually and the 3 letters occurring together in other words.

Mr. G

I don't see it as anything more offensive than Culshie etc. It would depending on the circumstances warrant a warning or infraction, so by blocking it in the swear filter it almost lets it be permitted, which may not be a good idea.

Pawwed Rig

Terry1985 wrote: »

I was unaware that this was a racist term and thought it was a simple abbreviation of 'Japanese' until I was infracted.

The Dispute Resolution Forum would probably be the best place for this.

Terry1985

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The Dispute Resolution Forum would probably be the best place for this.

I'm not bothered by the infraction too much, but if it's infraction worthy then maybe we can silence the post reporters by adding it as a swear filter. I thought you could make it match the whole word rather than every sub string.

Brendan Flowers

Am I the only person who thinks the poster accusing the OP of being a racist is the one who should be infracted? Such a horrible thing to accuse someone of being just because of their use of a word that they, like me would in no way consider racist. Just like I wouldnt consider it racist to call the British Brits or even the Scottish Scots. Just like I wouldnt consider it racist to call Americans Yanks or Australians Aussies. And I certainly would be offended if anyone called me a Paddy because Im Irish.

Dades

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The Dispute Resolution Forum would probably be the best place for this.

This.

Clearly this thread is somewhat tongue in cheek, but you'd be better served in DR than just being incredulous in here.

old hippy

MugMugs wrote: »

I am truly perplexed as to how that word is in any way offensive.

Let me put in context, Mugs. I have Japanese family and friends. I was long ago aware that the term is racist.

There's plenty of material out there to back this up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap#Reaction_in_Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment#Derogatory_terms

http://www.japan-talk.com/jt/new/is-the-word-Jap-derogatory

The word Jap is generally considered derogatory in the UK. Britain is home to the largest Japanese community in Europe who consider the term offensive.

The Japanese Embassy in London went after a London newspaper for using the term in 2011. The following statement came from the embassy at that time:
Most Japanese people find the word Jap offensive, irrespective of the circumstances in which it is used.
~ Embassy of Japan in the UK

pablomakaveli

It's not to dissimiliar to the word "paki" either in that some people try to argue thats not offensive though i know boards doesn't look kindly on the use of that particular word. I don't think there's any need to refer to japanese people as "Japs".

Pat Mustard

People will go miles out of their way to take offence these days.

Femme_Fatale

If it's offensive to Japanese people, it's offensive to Japanese people, but I still find it annoying as hell when context/intent are not taken into account and a deliberate attempt to offend/hurt (which is something I most certainly am not in the habit of - in fact I am considered at times to be a card-carrying member of the PC brigade) is found when not there - on an Irish forum not frequented by many Japanese people or people who are aware of Japanese culture.

I always thought it was just innocent short-hand for Japanese person too (like, as someone said, "Scot", "Brit", "Fin").

Beasty

This is how the previous post would look if the term was added to the swear filter:

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

If it's offensive to ***anese people, it's offensive to ***anese people, but I still find it annoying as hell when context/intent are not taken into account and a deliberate attempt to offend/hurt (which is something I most certainly am not in the habit of - in fact I am considered at times to be a card-carrying member of the PC brigade) is found when not there - on an Irish forum not frequented by many ***anese people or people who are aware of ***anese culture.

I always thought it was just innocent short-hand for ***anese person too.

Imagine trying to work out what the hell the ***an Forum is

And if you extend it to the type of words mentioned by The Hill Billy some threads could become almost unreadable.

My name is URL

pablomakaveli wrote: »

It's not to dissimiliar to the word "paki" either in that some people try to argue thats not offensive though i know boards doesn't look kindly on the use of that particular word. I don't think there's any need to refer to japanese people as "Japs".

Or Americans as Yanks, Canadians as Canucks, New Zealanders as Kiwis or people from outside of Dublin as boggers.. but it happens every day on Boards and nobody makes a stink about it.

If stuff was banned whenever someone here takes offence to it on the behalf of someone else, then there wouldn't be much room to post anything at all.

When it's obviously not meant in a hateful or derogatory way then it shouldn't be lumped in with the genuinely horrible things that people say about others.

Artful_Badger

I would have considered it derogatory and similar to paki or chink to be honest. But I'd also be aware that its used as a simple abbreviation so I wouldnt judge those who use it too harshly unless it was clear they were using it in a derogatory fashion. The OP should have just went to the DRP and pleaded his case. But then maybe he would have had the poster who reported it not jumped into the thread crying racism turning it into a row.

Dont think it needs to be added to the swear filter as its not a swear or unacceptable in all cases, just leave it as a lesson learned all round really.

Tombi!

It's offensive, yes.
But being ignorant of it being offensive and using it doesn't automatically make the person that uses it a "bad" person.
Just means that they didn't know it was offensive.

As for adding it to the filter? Yeah... no. And as for the abbrevitation, I thought it was JPN, not Jap?

pablomakaveli

My name is URL wrote: »

Or Americans as Yanks, Canadians as Canucks, New Zealanders as Kiwis or people from outside of Dublin as boggers.. but it happens every day on Boards and nobody makes a stink about it.

If stuff was banned whenever someone here takes offence to it on the behalf of someone else, then there wouldn't be much room to post anything at all.

When it's obviously not meant in a hateful or derogatory way then it shouldn't be lumped in with the genuinely horrible things that people say about others.

I don't think it should be added to the swear filter but i think people who refer to Japanese people as Japs should be reminded not too. Maybe you should look into the picture painted by the Americans of the Japanese in WW2. Ever hear of "Slap a Jap" or see the portrayal of the Japanese as subhuman during that era. Calling them Japs was part of that.

Kiwi, Yank and Canuck is more an affectionate term. Jap belongs in the same category as paki, ******, chink and fenian as its a term that was born out of hate.

Femme_Fatale

I understand it was used as a term of hate but I doubt it was actually borne out of hate - would it not have just been short for Japanese?
In the same way Brit is short for British but the term can be used derogatorily even though the term in and of itself isn't derogatory. I never heard of Slap a Jap btw.

Tombi!

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I understand it was used as a term of hate but I doubt it was actually borne out of hate - would it not have just been short for Japanese?
In the same way Brit is short for British but the term can be used derogatorily even though the term in and of itself isn't derogatory. I never heard of Slap a Jap btw.

Correct. However, because of WW2, it was used as a slur, mostly in America, I think. But since it's used there as a slur, it's become sort of widespread.

Interestingly, according to Wikipedia (unforunately this isn't cited so take it with a grain of salt): it's not really seen as a slur in Japan due to the population of Japan being mostly Japanese.

Oh and the "slap a jap" was from Superman, I think. It was again, an American thing. Mostly during WW2 but again, there were numerous comics and stuff that were obviously Anti-Japan due to WW2.

Daqster

old hippy wrote: »

The word Jap is generally considered derogatory in the UK. Britain is home to the largest Japanese community in Europe who consider the term offensive.

I don't think anyone is denying that the word has been, and can be, used in a derogatory fashion, and I also feel that most people would be well aware of how it was once seen as perfectly acceptable to use the word as a slur, once upon a time. This Popeye episode is good evidence of that. However, that was made back in 1942, a time when the allies were on the back foot and was part of the large amount of WWII propaganda cartoons which were made at the time.

Today though, I really don't think the word 'Jap' can be seen as inherently pejorative. It's used in far too many wholly innocent ways to ever be considered that today. Other ethnic slurs are for sure, there's no denying that, but not that one but even if it was, even it was added to the swear filter, what then would be the excuse for not adding many of those on the following long list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

There wouldn't be, as add it and you would invariably have put yourself in the position where you would have to add more.

MilanPan!c

Would def consider if offensive.

I worked in an Asain pop culture store in the US for a few years and had several Japanese co-workers, all who thought it was offensive. I also studied Japanese and was repeatedly told by Japanese students that it was offensive.

I think the reason most people don't care is because they rarely run into Japanese people here.

I'd be for banning it.

Renegade Mechanic

I myself along with many "Paddys" I know think nothing of that term. Some Americans I know think nothing of "Yanks". Are we going to be smacked one in the name of political correctness by the "Brits" next? I just cannot see the offence that can be taken on that abbreviation when I can think of at least 11 banable terms that actually are offensive. For the first time I think Im actually becoming annoyed at this.

MilanPan!c

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I myself along with many "Paddys" I know think nothing of that term. Some Americans I know think nothing of "Yanks". Are we going to be smacked one in the name of political correctness by the "Brits" next? I just cannot see the offence that can be taken on that abbreviation when I can think of at least 11 banable terms that actually are offensive. For the first time I think Im actually becoming annoyed at this.

You've missed the point. It's not about YOU being offended, it's about Japanese people being offended.

That it annoys you that there's a derogatory term for Japanese is weird IMO.

Renegade Mechanic

MilanPan!c wrote: »

You've missed the point. It's not about YOU being offended, it's about Japanese people being offended.

That it annoys you that there's a derogatory term for Japanese is weird IMO.

Not offended. Just that there are far worse terms out there and I suspect the last time "Japs" was used genuinely offensively by anyone that isnt a brainless racist, the Enola Gay very nearly met its end along with thousands of unfortunate souls. I rarely use it but if I do, its in the context of that completely benign post that appears,to have sparked this that was actually complementing their relative transparency and honesty with serious national problems when compared to other nations.

MilanPan!c

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Not offended. Just that there are far worse terms out there and I suspect the last time "Japs" was used genuinely offensively by anyone that isnt a brainless racist, the Enola Gay very nearly met its end along with thousands of unfortunate souls. I rarely use it but if I do, its in the context of that completely benign post that appears,to have sparked this that was actually complementing their relative transparency and honesty with serious national problems when compared to other nations.

Ah so I long as I use ****** in the right context it shouldn't be censored?



Terms cause offence to people, even in the "right" context, and the easiest solution is to simply type out the word Japanese.

It's really very simple and prevents people who don't agree with your argument from being offended.

Renegade Mechanic

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Ah so I long as I use ****** in the right context it shouldn't be censored?

Christ, really? *Sigh* Ill bite, well.. they use it amongst themselves and I dont feel any need to interrupt or stop them?

^^^See how silly that argument will get? There really really is no comparison between those two terms anyway.

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Terms cause offence to people, even in the "right" context, and the easiest solution is to simply type out the word Japanese.

It's really very simple and prevents people who don't agree with your argument from being offended.

Maybe people just need thicker skin. At the end of the day if a Japanese person asks me to refrain from abbreviating Ill do so. I just dont see why it is seen as "offensive". But thats irrelevant. The issues been raised. While I sincerely hope it wont be a bannable offence. Ive pretty much made peace with the fact that itll see a yellow card beside ones post in future.

MilanPan!c

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Christ, really? *Sigh* Ill bite, well.. they use it amongst themselves and I dont feel any need to interrupt or stop them?

^^^See how silly that argument will get? There really really is no comparison between those two terms anyway.

Lot's of black folks are offended by the word ******, even when black people say it.

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Maybe people just need thicker skin. At the end of the day if a Japanese person asks me to refrain from abbreviating Ill do so. I just dont see why it is seen as "offensive". But thats irrelevant. The issues been raised. While I sincerely hope it wont be a bannable offence. Ive pretty much made peace with the fact that itll see a yellow card beside ones post in future.

Why should Japanese people toughen up so you can be lazy?

As for the history of the word, well, as you say that's beyond the point.

biko

Daqster wrote: »

Context and intention is everything, otherwise half the Motor forum would be infracted for using the word, daily.

Indeed, we say "jap cars" all the time, no offence intended of course.
No Japanese persons has yet complained about it, unless you are Japanese OP?


For me the word "knacker" is far worse as it's intended solely as an insult.