The Middle Distance Thread

YFlyer

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Yeah, goal race would be the Munster outdoors 3k in mid-June. Doing County to get a feel for racing on the track. Do you think I should extend my 10k season by a month or so and then start adding the fast stuff?

Munster 3K? Master athlete?

pconn062

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Yeah, goal race would be the Munster outdoors 3k in mid-June. Doing County to get a feel for racing on the track. Do you think I should extend my 10k season by a month or so and then start adding the fast stuff?

For me, I hope to be in really good 5k shape before fully launching into track work. But I think it is important to keep in touch with speed all year round, you could throw in the odd 3k/mile pace session every two weeks, and start making strides a part of your daily training. I wouldn't say you need to extend your 10k training by a month, but I would advise not treating the early races as big or goal races, use them to practice different race tactics and to get familiar with track racing. Don't train to peak for those races, think about the long game. I'm far from an expert so wouldn't be in a position to advise on a training plan, but have a read of this document. It has helped me a lot, especially the stuff on how to train over winter and the early part of the year. Has lots of sessions in it as well, just beware as it is designed for a competitive miler so the intensity/volume will need to be adjusted.

YFlyer

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Not that I know of. UL might have a group but I'm not sure if it's open to anyone that's not a student. Something to check out though.

You can train with our group in Limerick AC if you like.

Netwerk Errer

YFlyer wrote: »

You can train with our group in Limerick AC if you like.

Not a masters athlete YF. Do ye have a mid-d group? Are they the JC sessions?

Not sure how the lads would feel about me crossing over to the old enemy though!:D

Netwerk Errer

pconn062 wrote: »

For me, I hope to be in really good 5k shape before fully launching into track work. But I think it is important to keep in touch with speed all year round, you could throw in the odd 3k/mile pace session every two weeks, and start making strides a part of your daily training. I wouldn't say you need to extend your 10k training by a month, but I would advise not treating the early races as big or goal races, use them to practice different race tactics and to get familiar with track racing. Don't train to peak for those races, think about the long game. I'm far from an expert so wouldn't be in a position to advise on a training plan, but have a read of this document. It has helped me a lot, especially the stuff on how to train over winter and the early part of the year. Has lots of sessions in it as well, just beware as it is designed for a competitive miler so the intensity/volume will need to be adjusted.

Thanks pconn! That looks like a brilliant read. Speed development is something I've added to my base training this year. Fast repeats every second week at sprint to mile pace pace and longer repeats every other week between 3k-10m pace.

YFlyer

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Not a masters athlete YF. Do ye have a mid-d group? Are they the JC sessions?

Not sure how the lads would feel about me crossing over to the old enemy though!:D

Yeah our group be mainly middle distance and some of the lads would race the longer distances. The standard be 16:30 to 18 min 5K or there abouts.

It's Willie Logans group. Much smaller group than Joe Chawke

The Munster Seniors be 5000m.

Netwerk Errer

YFlyer wrote: »

Yeah our group be mainly middle distance and some of the lads would race the longer distances. The standard be 16:30 to 8 min 5K or there abouts.

It's Willie Logans group. Much smaller group than Joe Chawke

The Munster Seniors be 5000m.

Cheers for the offer but my head would be put on the chopping block if I was found to be fraternising with LAC.:D

You're right, just checked last years results and there's no 3000m. Have to go for the 1500m now.

Chivito550

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Cheers for the offer but my head would be put on the chopping block if I was found to be fraternising with LAC.:D

You're right, just checked last years results and there's no 3000m. Have to go for the 1500m now.

It's an individual sport so you need to put yourself first. If middle distance is where you want to focus your training then you need to do what is best for you. I'm not saying to leave your club. Far from it. But sit down with your club and explain your situation and that you need to train with athletes with similar goals, but will still be representing the club in competition. There's a couple of guys in our group who are not in my club, but train with us because there is no sprint group for adults in their particular club. They still compete for their own club.

The good of athletes should come ahead of petty local rivalries. We are too small a sport in this country for that anyway.

Netwerk Errer

Chivito550 wrote: »

It's an individual sport so you need to put yourself first. If middle distance is where you want to focus your training then you need to do what is best for you. I'm not saying to leave your club. Far from it. But sit down with your club and explain your situation and that you need to train with athletes with similar goals, but will still be representing the club in competition. There's a couple of guys in our group who are not in my club, but train with us because there is no sprint group for adults in their particular club. They still compete for their own club.

The good of athletes should come ahead of petty local rivalries. We are too small a sport in this country for that anyway.

I understand that. I was exaggerating the rivalry but I can't commit to set-time sessions because of time constraints. I run all my workouts on my own because of that.

KielyUnusual

So the cross country season has largely come to an end and the indoors season is upon us.

I'm down to run the 1500m in the 2nd meet towards the end of January. Will be doing a little specific training for this. Coach has recommended 400s for the Tuesday session and k's for the weekend but I won't be killing myself as the aim is to peak for the summer and the indoors will just be for the experience. I won't be representing the team so there'll be no pressure on that front.

Other than this I reckon the training will be broadly similar as current with the speedwork starting in earnest come April. Have signed up for a few races in the interim and will likely run a few more cross country races too (definitely the BHAA Garda XC in the Spring).

Anybody else running the indoors? How are you structuring your training for this?

Timmaay

800 for me next Sunday, and I am on the team ugggghhhh. Training this week will be fun!

Chivito550

60 and 800 next weekend, followed by 5 400m races planned after that including Nationals. Taking indoor season very seriously. Really enjoyed the indoor experience at the Baseline meet. Outdoor lacks that intimacy.

pconn062

KielyUnusual wrote: »

So the cross country season has largely come to an end and the indoors season is upon us.

I'm down to run the 1500m in the 2nd meet towards the end of January. Will be doing a little specific training for this. Coach has recommended 400s for the Tuesday session and k's for the weekend but I won't be killing myself as the aim is to peak for the summer and the indoors will just be for the experience. I won't be representing the team so there'll be no pressure on that front.

Other than this I reckon the training will be broadly similar as current with the speedwork starting in earnest come April. Have signed up for a few races in the interim and will likely run a few more cross country races too (definitely the BHAA Garda XC in the Spring).

Anybody else running the indoors? How are you structuring your training for this?

What 1500m is that at the end of the month Kiely?

EDIT: Just struck me, it's probably the National League, round 2. Might head down and run as a guest, going to miss the Leinsters this year and would like at least one indoor race.

KielyUnusual

pconn062 wrote: »

What 1500m is that at the end of the month Kiely?

EDIT: Just struck me, it's probably the National League, round 2. Might head down and run as a guest, going to miss the Leinsters this year and would like at least one indoor race.

Yea, that's it. I'm entering it as an individual too. Not expecting much from it but should be a good experience.

ECOLII

Plan on giving a bash myself.

Had hoped to bein full swing of middle distance training last week however it was a none starter so got the head down this week. Won't be racing till Febuary though as Dec wasn't a great month training wise for me so I said best to get a solid few weeks under the belt and then give it a last. Probably going to do AAI Games and Leinsters and if they go pretty well put myself on the chopping block for National Seniors 3k which will need a big improvement just to stay in touch with the field :P:P

2 Middle distance specific sessions done (second one this morning) and one thing is apparent the lack of lactic tolerance is apparent, not used to that type of pain just yet despite the speed being there

Hopefully this will come with a few more weeks sessions.

pconn062

ECOLII wrote: »

Plan on giving a bash myself.

Had hoped to bein full swing of middle distance training last week however it was a none starter so got the head down this week. Won't be racing till Febuary though as Dec wasn't a great month training wise for me so I said best to get a solid few weeks under the belt and then give it a last. Probably going to do AAI Games and Leinsters and if they go pretty well put myself on the chopping block for National Seniors 3k which will need a big improvement just to stay in touch with the field :P:P

2 Middle distance specific sessions done (second one this morning) and one thing is apparent the lack of lactic tolerance is apparent, not used to that type of pain just yet despite the speed being there

Hopefully this will come with a few more weeks sessions.

Interested to get some info on your training. Are you targeting indoors this year or is this all for a long build-up to outdoor track? You seem to be getting stuck into the MD sessions fairly early. Can you give a rough idea of the structure of your training plan for the next few months?

ECOLII

pconn062 wrote: »

Interested to get some info on your training. Are you targeting indoors this year or is this all for a long build-up to outdoor track? You seem to be getting stuck into the MD sessions fairly early. Can you give a rough idea of the structure of your training plan for the next few months?

Targetting indoors with a few to developing speed so that after that building to improve 5/10k times in the summer.

Generally following Magness's 1500m competition phase for the next 8 weeks as an outline though there a little changes here or there (not too many mind you

This morning's session was 4x800 @ 3k, 4x200 @800 all with 2 min recovery pretty tough and the legs were jelly like

1500m sessions in there have a bit of progression of broken 800s right up to straight out 800s at 1500m pace. First of these was 500/300 sets with short recovery in between. I have used similar style stuff previously from Rubio and worked pretty well. Next one is 600/200s and then finally 2 weeks after that its 3x800. Session so far have been definitely outside of my comfort zone with regards to the types of sessions and focus I usually do but it is no harm and kinda looking forward to it.

Sacksian

Currently a little out-of-shape but hopefully will be doing MD training up until Masters in March.

The plan at the moment is to do 1500 training for indoors and then do 5k training before starting the summer track season and attempting to peak for the 800m in August. I'll still do a 400 and 800 at some point of the indoor season but the plan at the minute is to do more miles than I've done previously (which I've been planning to do for ages...but never really got done).

I overcooked the 800m training last summer at the expense of mileage and only managed two (tactical) 1500m races so the goal this year is to get my 1500 time more in line with 400 & 800 pbs, starting in spring. Ultimately, I hope to improve my 800 time as a result of this which, based on last year's extremely limited experience, should also mean an improvement in 400.

I suspect my potential for gains in the 800 are relatively limited but I'd like to give it one more summer season.

Having said all that, it's quite likely that most of these plans will change over the next few months when I realise I'd rather just do 30mpw or that I'm actually a 60m sprint hurdler.

pconn062

ECOLII wrote: »

Targetting indoors with a few to developing speed so that after that building to improve 5/10k times in the summer.

Generally following Magness's 1500m competition phase for the next 8 weeks as an outline though there a little changes here or there (not too many mind you

This morning's session was 4x800 @ 3k, 4x200 @800 all with 2 min recovery pretty tough and the legs were jelly like

1500m sessions in there have a bit of progression of broken 800s right up to straight out 800s at 1500m pace. First of these was 500/300 sets with short recovery in between. I have used similar style stuff previously from Rubio and worked pretty well. Next one is 600/200s and then finally 2 weeks after that its 3x800. Session so far have been definitely outside of my comfort zone with regards to the types of sessions and focus I usually do but it is no harm and kinda looking forward to it.

Ah I see, so basically you are working on speed before turning to more endurance work for the summer?

I am afraid of getting into MD work too early. Will have to start including some faster work every few weeks from now on but I'm worried about peaking too early, last year I peaked basically at the start of June mainly because I started 1500m pace work too early and was a bit burnt out come July. Going to talk to the coach tonight and formulate a plan. Base building will continue until the end of the month anyway but will start adding into two weekly sessions from this week, nothing too extreme. Maybe some tempo running and fartlek, touching on 1500m pace.

Chivito550

pconn062 wrote: »

Ah I see, so basically you are working on speed before turning to more endurance work for the summer?

I am afraid of getting into MD work too early. Will have to start including some faster work every few weeks from now on but I'm worried about peaking too early, last year I peaked basically at the start of June mainly because I started 1500m pace work too early and was a bit burnt out come July. Going to talk to the coach tonight and formulate a plan. Base building will continue until the end of the month anyway but will start adding into two weekly sessions from this week, nothing too extreme. Maybe some tempo running and fartlek, touching on 1500m pace.

I think it's important to have one speed session a week over the winter, to keep on top of that side of things. Too much long slow stuff and you could find that you lack the wheels later in the year when it matters. Different event, but our coach has us doing one day of speed work on the track right through the winter. Sometimes as explosive as 60m sprints, sometimes 150s. It's very important because the other 2 days of sessions each week at the moment is endurance on hills and grass. Speed kills. Important not to lose it.

dna_leri

My initial focus is Masters Indoors in March. I am following the Magness 800m plan, doing a full-build up though the base-phase and currently in pre-competition stage. Last week had 3 sessions, with 2 this week - first one at mile pace, pushing down to 800 pace. The 2nd one starts with 600m at 3K pace, though 300m at mile pace, down to 800m pace. These kind of sessions are typical - finishing faster than the early reps.

Weekly target mileage is in the range 40-50 with long run at 10-12 miles. The plan probably fits well for a Faster Twitch speed-based runner (rather than slow twitch endurance based).

I have not confirmed racing plan for indoors yet - I usually struggle to get enough races before a target event.

After indoors I will re-evaluate my plans again. It will then be 19 weeks to the masters outdoor champs which is enough time to build up to a peak again, if I want.

ECOLII

pconn062 wrote: »

Ah I see, so basically you are working on speed before turning to more endurance work for the summer?

I am afraid of getting into MD work too early. Will have to start including some faster work every few weeks from now on but I'm worried about peaking too early, last year I peaked basically at the start of June mainly because I started 1500m pace work too early and was a bit burnt out come July. Going to talk to the coach tonight and formulate a plan. Base building will continue until the end of the month anyway but will start adding into two weekly sessions from this week, nothing too extreme. Maybe some tempo running and fartlek, touching on 1500m pace.

Effectively yes, endurance is my strength so I am focusing on my weaknesses for the next 2 months in order to try and push on (plus always good to change things up every once in a while)

In terms of you peaking too early I think the increase in endurance this winter will definitely stand to you in terms of extending your season. In terms of adding 1500m work early I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as the recoveries are a good bit longer than they would be come the summer. You are right to focus on strength however as this where you are going to yield most gains, yes you do need a blend of speed and lactic work but it is still a predominantly aerobic event

Looking at the example of O Lionaird during his break through year he was training for 10k right up until April.

If you are worried about speed there are a few things you can add to work on this without being specific sessions that compromise your current training. Perhaps an on going cycle of the following once a week;

Week 1 - Weights, Compound movements - deadlifts, leg press, squats, higher weights with low reps to work on explosive power. Weighted calf raises can also help given the amount of force generation which comes from your calf muscles during running (and sprinting)

Week 2 - Plyometrics - start with low intensity work to follow on from my point about force generation - bunny hops, shin high hurdle drills etc. Have this done when you are completely fresh as this can be demanding enough on the CNS

Week 3 - 1500m Turnover work - couple of 200s @1500m pace w/2-3 min recovery between. Just about locking it on, aside from this other ways of adding a bit of informal work are hill sprints or even incorporate 4 laps of jog bends/ stride straights as part of your warm up

Personally I found the 1st two very beneficial last year when I did the odd proper speed session I found it did not take me a few weeks to get the pace back into my legs

Timmaay

Sunday going to be a baptism of fire! Calf niggle all week, so decided any 800m paced stuff this week could only do more harm than good! So it's the usual race myself into shape ha. Likes of a 2.04 would be as good as I can hope for!

pconn062

Thought I'd give this a bump and see how everyone is getting on. How has training been progressing? Any indoor races coming up? I ran my first last weekend and am doing the Leinsters on Sunday week.

Sacksian

pconn062 wrote: »

Thought I'd give this a bump and see how everyone is getting on.

Summary: enjoying training without being prepared for any specific distance!

How has training been progressing?

Been training very consistently and getting the miles in without any real focus. Did over 200 miles in a single month for the first time ever in January, helped by slowing down, as well as longer warm-ups and cool-downs on session days, and I’m hoping to keep that consistency up for as long as I can.

My first mile pace session this week (10x400 off 90s) didn’t go great - I’m a little out of touch with very fast stuff. The idea of 800m pace seems totally alien at this point but hoping to get a bit more focus from April/May.

Any indoor races coming up?

I’ve been roped in for the xc this weekend so I’ll need to do both Leinster and Connacht indoors just to get up to speed to be ready for the National Masters in March. Hopefully, will still be able to do a couple of sessions this week before toeing the line next Sunday.

Sub 2:10 for Leinsters would be fine, to be honest, and then I’d expect (hope?) to be closer to 2:05 by the time the Masters comes along. I’d be happy getting to 4:25 for 1500m before the Masters and, depending on how things go, I might even attempt a 400 at the Masters.

pconn062 wrote: »

I ran my first last weekend and am doing the Leinsters on Sunday week.

Looked like a good start last week! Keep up the consistency and you should be taking a good chunk off that this year?

Timmaay

800 and 15 in the 2 league rounds , 3rd in both I think and some nice racing, happy with my times but they exposed my poor tactical racing ability ha, hang tight longer and alittle bit more faith in my own finishing kicks needed!

Timmaay

Doing leinsters also next weekend, should be a good group of us down!

pconn062

Timmaay wrote: »

800 and 15 in the 2 league rounds , 3rd in both I think and some nice racing, happy with my times but they exposed my poor tactical racing ability ha, hang tight longer and alittle bit more faith in my own finishing kicks needed!

Seen you run down in AIT last weekend, thought you looked very good, very powerful running. What are you running in the Leinsters?

pconn062

Sacksian wrote: »

Sub 2:10 for Leinsters would be fine, to be honest, and then I’d expect (hope?) to be closer to 2:05 by the time the Masters comes along. I’d be happy getting to 4:25 for 1500m before the Masters and, depending on how things go, I might even attempt a 400 at the Masters.

Are you going to run both the 800m and 1500m at the Leinsters or will you split them between the Leinsters and Connachts?

Sacksian

pconn062 wrote: »

Are you going to run both the 800m and 1500m at the Leinsters or will you split them between the Leinsters and Connachts?

At the moment, the plan is to run both 800m and 1500m on the two days - just to get up to speed and not expect too much in terms of times - and then maybe 800m and 400m at the Masters.