The Middle Distance Thread

28064212

IvoryTower wrote: »

has anyone ever turned up to a race and used blocks without trying them before?

*Puts hand up*

I can't say I'd recommend it, but I wouldn't go hugely out of my way to make sure to practice either. There's a good guide here: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Starting-Blocks.

It will also depend on the meet itself. When I went (Dublin Graded last week), you had a minute or two to get set up, and time to try out a few starts. If you're expected to be ready to go within 30 seconds, maybe not such a good idea.

At the end of the day, if it's your first blocks race, I wouldn't expect great things from it regardless. Use it as a learning experience

IvoryTower

yeah ill just go for it, sure have to get the first time out of the way. I will have time for a few practices beforehand id say

dna_leri

28064212 wrote: »

*Puts hand up*

I can't say I'd recommend it, but I wouldn't go hugely out of my way to make sure to practice either. There's a good guide here: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Starting-Blocks.

It will also depend on the meet itself. When I went (Dublin Graded last week), you had a minute or two to get set up, and time to try out a few starts. If you're expected to be ready to go within 30 seconds, maybe not such a good idea.

At the end of the day, if it's your first blocks race, I wouldn't expect great things from it regardless. Use it as a learning experience

That's actually quite a good how-to guide, though a lot to remember for the first timer.
Key points are front of blocks 1 foot length back from line, block for strong leg 2 feet from line, block for other leg 3 feet from line.
Don't slope the blocks too steeply. Hammer them into the ground with your heel.
On the "set" lift your knees off the ground, drive off the gun (don't just stand up).
Best thing is to get there early and try them out or at least watch how someone else sets them up so you know how to adjust them.
THe worst thing you can do is fall flat on your face.
Good luck.

IvoryTower

Thanks for the advice lads, it went really well. I got there early to practice with the blocks,followed the steps to setting it up and the rest just seems to fall into place. I'm sure if someone who knew what they were doing was looking they'd correct a few things but it didn't feel like I would fall flat on my face! Anyway I think it worked better than standing, I got a PB of 58.20(3 sec pb). I was even in line with the front two for a brief second with around 100m left, the tank was empty at that stage though so wobbled my way to the finish line as you do

It's been a fun 3 months training on the track and I think the 400m is my race so looking forward to knocking a few seconds off next summer. Glad I got the blocks out of the way as well! It was also my first time wearing spikes which felt really good compared to my road runners

edit: possibly the biggest reason for improvement was not going all out for the first 150m like I did the first time

RayCun

for a shorter race you also need to be warmed up almost to the point of being tired when the race starts. Everything needs to be firing right from the gun

IvoryTower

I think I could've done the warm up better, I was there too long though. I was sort of on/off warming up for nearly 2 hours while I waited. Will try and nail it down the next time. I wont have to arrive early to see if I can work the blocks

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

Thanks for the advice lads, it went really well. I got there early to practice with the blocks,followed the steps to setting it up and the rest just seems to fall into place. I'm sure if someone who knew what they were doing was looking they'd correct a few things but it didn't feel like I would fall flat on my face! Anyway I think it worked better than standing, I got a PB of 28.20(3 sec pb). I was even in line with the front two for a brief second with around 100m left, the tank was empty at that stage though so wobbled my way to the finish line as you do

It's been a fun 3 months training on the track and I think the 400m is my race so looking forward to knocking a few seconds off next summer. Glad I got the blocks out of the way as well! It was also my first time wearing spikes which felt really good compared to my road runners

edit: possibly the biggest reason for improvement was not going all out for the first 150m like I did the first time

28 is fairly quick. Assume you mean 58.

Nice work, but you are supposed to run the first 50-60 flat out and then cruise. Don't hold back in the first 50 as you can't store that free energy for later.

IvoryTower

thanks chivito fixed it there.

I went all out to the end of first corner then cruised to next corner, then went for it again which put me in line with front 2(i was on inside), from the 100m to go they pulled ahead 2-3 seconds id say

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

thanks chivito fixed it there.

I went all out to the end of first corner then cruised to next corner, then went for it again which put me in line with front 2(i was on inside), from the 100m to go they pulled ahead 2-3 seconds id say

Nice time by the way. What are your PBs for other distances? Be interesting to see how they compare. Have you been training for 400s, 800s or longer stuff, or sort of training for everything?

dna_leri

IvoryTower wrote: »

Thanks for the advice lads, it went really well. I got there early to practice with the blocks,followed the steps to setting it up and the rest just seems to fall into place. I'm sure if someone who knew what they were doing was looking they'd correct a few things but it didn't feel like I would fall flat on my face! Anyway I think it worked better than standing, I got a PB of 58.20(3 sec pb). I was even in line with the front two for a brief second with around 100m left, the tank was empty at that stage though so wobbled my way to the finish line as you do

It's been a fun 3 months training on the track and I think the 400m is my race so looking forward to knocking a few seconds off next summer. Glad I got the blocks out of the way as well! It was also my first time wearing spikes which felt really good compared to my road runners

edit: possibly the biggest reason for improvement was not going all out for the first 150m like I did the first time

Well done - 58s is decent which you can build on with focused training. If you are not already in a club, see if there is one near you with a group that you could train with. The indoor season runs from Dec-Feb with events mostly in a superb indoor arena in Athlone (and some other locations) so you don't have to wait until Summer to race again. Although the indoor event is slightly different it would be good experience.

IvoryTower

thanks lads. I will certainly be training over the winter.

I'm 32 and I joined DDAC at Christmas with my younger brother with the aim of him losing some weight. Played lowest pub level footy previously. I was a bit all over the place cause no goals as such and was bouncing between different training groups. I done a 20.25 5k 43min 10k. Then the graded meets came up so I wanted to try all the shorter distances. Done the 400m first,61.4 ran it wrong but decided after this was the training I wanted to do so joined the relevant group. The following 2 meets I got 13s 100m, 27s 200m. Missed the 800m with injury. Then the 400m last night. My first 200m of the 400m last night was 27s so definitely improved over the last 2 months.

But most importantly, my brother is still running!

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

thanks lads. I will certainly be training over the winter.

I'm 32 and I joined DDAC at Christmas with my younger brother with the aim of him losing some weight. Played lowest pub level footy previously. I was a bit all over the place cause no goals as such and was bouncing between different training groups. I done a 20.25 5k 43min 10k. Then the graded meets came up so I wanted to try all the shorter distances. Done the 400m first,61.4 ran it wrong but decided after this was the training I wanted to do so joined the relevant group. The following 2 meets I got 13s 100m, 27s 200m. Missed the 800m with injury. Then the 400m last night. My first 200m last night was 27s so definitely improved over the last 2 months.

But most importantly, my brother is still running!

Very similar background to me so. I'd knock the long distance on the head and stick with the 400s. Those times are similar to what I ran in my first year back in 2011/12 over 100-400 (slightly faster over 400 in fact). I had similar enough 5k and 10k times before I started sprinting (21 and 45).

You should start a log.

Myles Splitz

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/entries-open-for-2015-ait-baseline-indoor-tf-meet

KielyUnusual

Myles Splitz wrote: »

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/entries-open-for-2015-ait-baseline-indoor-tf-meet

Really looking forward to eventually racing down in Athlone but a Wednesday evening is just not really a goer from a logistics point of view.

I wouldn't have thought of 3k as non standard but I guess its not a Championship event even though they are run very regularly.

Are you heading down yourself Myles?

Sacksian

I'm really conflicted about this.

I'm in intense niggle-management mode, I've done no middle-distance training and I have no idea how to run 3000m. I can't consider the 600m, can I?! And risk losing my unbeaten track streak in 2015!

So tempted...

Myles Splitz

KielyUnusual wrote: »

Really looking forward to eventually racing down in Athlone but a Wednesday evening is just not really a goer from a logistics point of view.

I wouldn't have thought of 3k as non standard but I guess its not a Championship event even though they are run very regularly.

Are you heading down yourself Myles?

I think they wanted to add something a bit longer for any distance runners as it is a new addition this year.

I am strongly resisting the urge to do this however as I would mean I would have a total of a marathon distance raced in the space of 4 and a half weeks with a with being my 4th race. Supposed to be taking a few weeks easy before going back into heavy sessions in January.

April will probably be my first foray into track this year as I don't plan on doing indoors again unfortunately.

Chivito550

Gutted to be missing this meet. Did it last year and it was good craic trying unusual distances. But Wednesday evening trek from Dublin City Centre to Athlone and back is too much of a grind, and anyway, any remote chances of competing are gone now with this injury.

happygoose

The 3k was on last year as well, an A (Travers to about 10 mins) and B (about 3 inside 9:45 and the rest back to 11 or so) race. It's a good all night, although the scheduling was all over the place at the last meet.

I'm down for the 600 at it however I've been broken the past two weeks so I'm not too sure about it.

Sacksian

I ran the 3k last year (there was one in 2013 too, but I was injured). I turned up and had to run more or less immediately. Had no idea how to pace it and was lapped twice by John Travers in the process (the peril of 200m laps).

For my first indoor race, it was a disaster - I had been put in the 'A' race but finished 2nd or 3rd last, I think - running it fairly much solo. And, to add to the ignominy, the 'B' race was won (by a clubmate) a couple of seconds faster than I ran!

At least, there was a 'B' race though - in 2013, it was won in 8:30 or so, but there were guys finishing just under 11 minutes.

Sacksian

Last year's results: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fuohimtqyvxc9ul/2014AITBaselineIndoorTFResults.xls?dl=0

Timmaay

Very tempted by this! But I got a local 10k xc the Sunday before it, so it purely depends on if I have recovered enough, which is a 50:50. Hopefully afew others from my club going and we'll carpool. I'll be in athlone the previous Sat at a kids intercounty competition anyways, that's the property kickoff of indoors for me!

28064212

Tempted by the 3000m (indoor is still eligible for the '10 round numbers' thread, right?), and might give the 60m a bash for the laugh. Will be nice to have a 3000m under my belt that doesn't involve back straights that are twice as fast as home straights due to gales

martyboy48

Would this be open to spectators by any chance??

dna_leri

I took part in the last 2 of these meetings and would recommend it.
I did the 3000m (B race) last year just to tick the box for myself (1st 3000m race ever) and for the "10 round numbers". The previous year I did the 600m which set me up well for a season of 800m indoor running. Unfortunately I can not make it this year due to work commitments.
It is open to spectators - pretty sure there is no admission charge, but it is very much a competitors event.

IvoryTower

If you pb'd in an indoor race would that be your pb our would it be considered separate to outdoor times

dna_leri

IvoryTower wrote: »

If you pb'd in an indoor race would that be your pb our would it be considered separate to outdoor times

A PB is a PB
e.g. my 800m PB was indoor; my 400m PB is outdoor - I also have an indoor PB for 400m which I would like to beat but that is less important. For most people their outdoor record will be better due to tighter bends on the indoor track slowing you down but if you set a PB indoors it still counts.

Probably the only event where indoor PBs often beat the outdoor one is the Pole Vault - WR is indoor - possibly due to no-wind factors.

KielyUnusual

IvoryTower wrote: »

If you pb'd in an indoor race would that be your pb our would it be considered separate to outdoor times

Indoor is generally considered slower because of the tighter bends, which is why I think they separate indoor times from outdoor times. The chances of an indoor WR being better than an outdoor WR are very slim, so if you had just the one world record for both then there wouldn't be a tenable target to reach for in the indoors.

From an average club runner perspective, I would say your PB is your PB. The only reason I'd be sceptical about claiming a PB would be in a point to point race i.e. a novelty mile race on the road like the 5th Avenue Mile.

From chivito's experience, there is a huge gradient on the indoor track from the outer lane to the inner so a 200m race where you had an outer lane, might be a bit of an advantage and I think they tend not to exclude this event from championships

IvoryTower

Okay thanks lads

Another question for the people who ran 400m indoor. How do you run it tactically compared to outdoor one? I'm not running one until next year but intrigued as to how it differs. Purely from the basis of wanting a pb.

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

Okay thanks lads

Another question for the people who ran 400m indoor. How do you run it tactically compared to outdoor one? I'm not running one until next year but intrigued as to how it differs. Purely from the basis of wanting a pb.

You should run one or two this coming indoor season. Why put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There are no entry standards. Show up and race.

Anyway, to answer your question, the 400m indoors favours the speed based guys more than the endurance based guys (like myself). Everybody spends the first lap trying to get to the break in the lead, so the first 200m is faster than when you run a 400m outdoors. If you get to the bell in the lead then others have to run a wider line to get around you. Of course, for me it didn't matter all that much, as most of the guys I'd race would be at least 2 seconds ahead of me, so I wouldn't be beating them anyway, so I just ran my own race. But on 2 occasions I beat guys in the closing stages who I was well behind at half way, and had to run around one of them on the final bend, which definitely cost me running sub 56.

As for PBs. I have an overall PB and indoor PB for each distance. If my indoor time is faster than my outdoor time then I count this as my overall PB. My PBs in the 200m and 400m are both outdoors, but my 800m is actually indoors (though I don't race it much anymore which is probably why I haven't gone quicker outdoors).

200m indoors is great fun, but a complete farce of an event. Impossible to win from lanes 1 or 2, especially when the bloke in lane 6 basically runs downhill at the start, and has a big net downhill overall, and a nice downhill boost coming into the homestraight. I set a nice 200m indoor PB in lane 6. It's glorious to run in.

Timmaay

KielyUnusual wrote: »

Indoor is generally considered slower because of the tighter bends, which is why I think they separate indoor times from outdoor times. The chances of an indoor WR being better than an outdoor WR are very slim, so if you had just the one world record for both then there wouldn't be a tenable target to reach for in the indoors.

From an average club runner perspective, I would say your PB is your PB. The only reason I'd be sceptical about claiming a PB would be in a point to point race i.e. a novelty mile race on the road like the 5th Avenue Mile.

From chivito's experience, there is a huge gradient on the indoor track from the outer lane to the inner so a 200m race where you had an outer lane, might be a bit of an advantage and I think they tend not to exclude this event from championships

For events 800m and over there is nothing in it, what few fractions of a second you might lose with bends you more than gain by having more consistent weather indoors. My indoor 1500m pb is 2 seconds faster than outdoors, this coming indoors I'd be hoping to get more pbs and certainly won't let any preceived ideas that it's slower hinder me ha.