The Middle Distance Thread

IvoryTower

I meant after Christmas, ill def run this season. It sounds fun, good that it's slightly different anyway. Sounds like you could very easily push too hard on the first lap and have a wobbly torturous 200m

Chivito550 wrote: »

You should run one or two this coming indoor season. Why put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There are no entry standards. Show up and race.

Anyway, to answer your question, the 400m indoors favours the speed based guys more than the endurance based guys (like myself). Everybody spends the first lap trying to get to the break in the lead, so the first 200m is faster than when you run a 400m outdoors. If you get to the bell in the lead then others have to run a wider line to get around you. Of course, for me it didn't matter all that much, as most of the guys I'd race would be at least 2 seconds ahead of me, so I wouldn't be beating them anyway, so I just ran my own race. But on 2 occasions I beat guys in the closing stages who I was well behind at half way, and had to run around one of them on the final bend, which definitely cost me running sub 56.

As for PBs. I have an overall PB and indoor PB for each distance. If my indoor time is faster than my outdoor time then I count this as my overall PB. My PBs in the 200m and 400m are both outdoors, but my 800m is actually indoors (though I don't race it much anymore which is probably why I haven't gone quicker outdoors).

200m indoors is great fun, but a complete farce of an event. Impossible to win from lanes 1 or 2, especially when the bloke in lane 6 basically runs downhill at the start, and has a big net downhill overall, and a nice downhill boost coming into the homestraight. I set a nice 200m indoor PB in lane 6. It's glorious to run in.

Chivito550

Timmaay wrote: »

For events 800m and over there is nothing in it, what few fractions of a second you might lose with bends you more than gain by having more consistent weather indoors. My indoor 1500m pb is 2 seconds faster than outdoors, this coming indoors I'd be hoping to get more pbs and certainly won't let any preceived ideas that it's slower hinder me ha.

Yeh I’d say there’s very minimal difference when it comes to middle and long distance running. Sprinting is a different story, but even then, not as much as I thought. You’re guaranteed no wind, and warm temperatures indoor, while outdoors, particularly in Ireland can be pretty awful. I only ran 0.43 seconds faster outdoors than indoors this year, and only 2 of my 10 outdoor races were faster than my top 2 indoor times.

One of the reasons why indoor records are well below outdoor records is because not all of the world’s best do indoors, and of those that do, they are peaking for outdoors. But for guys say running the 400m in 50-52 seconds, you’d be surprised how many of them run faster indoors. When you are at that level, and have no chance of qualifying for anything internationally, both indoor and outdoor national championships are of equal enough importance, and the idea of skipping indoors to concentrate on outdoors seems completely pointless.

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

I meant after Christmas, ill def run this season. It sounds fun, good that it's slightly different anyway. Sounds like you could very easily push too hard on the first lap and have a wobbly torturous 200m

Ah rite. Everything is after Christmas anyway. The only pre-Christmas meet is the baseline one.

IvoryTower

I can go to the baseline thing woo hoooo!! How do you race 300m ha!

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

I can go to the baseline thing woo hoooo!! How do you race 300m ha!

300m is a weird distance, and even weirder indoors. Outdoors I would probably say, run flat out for 60m, then cruise, but instead of cruising for 150m, you would cruise for just 50, and then kick from there. You can’t really run it all flat out.

Indoors though is a funny one. I ran it last year and you run the first 150m in lanes (just like the first 150m of an indoor 400), then after you break you have 150m to go (unlike in the 400m when you have 250m to go). So getting out hard and to the break ahead of rivals is even more important in a 300m than in a 400m, as you have less time to overtake somebody after the break.

I can’t fully recall how I approached that indoor 300 last year. I’ll have to look up my race report and I’ll send it to you. EDIT: Here it is.

Not too big a deal anyway, as it will probably be the only 300 you run all year. If you want to go out like the clappers and hang on, it would have good training benefit, and you won’t suffer as bad as you would if you did that in a 400. In general the 300 favours the 200 specialists more than the 400 guys.

EDIT: Also, when you break, spend the whole straight moving from your lane into lane 1. Don't just cut straight into lane 1, as it will slow you down, and it could cause an accident.

IvoryTower

That would be great thanks, very excited, maybe too excited

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

That would be great thanks, very excited, maybe too excited

Have edited above post. Link to race report is included now.

IvoryTower

thats a good read, do you think you would you go all out for the 300 if you done it again?

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

thats a good read, do you think you would you go all out for the 300 if you done it again?

I remember being behind a lad at 200m who I easily beat in the last 100m. If I ran it again I'd have gone out harder to ensure I was ahead of that guy and so didn't have to run into lane 2 on the final bend. But I can't remember who the guy was. For all I know he could have been a 100-200 guy with no endurance, in which case, no amount of flat out speed may have got me ahead of him at the break.

IvoryTower

Booked in there for 300m. Longshot but does anyone know if it'll be okay to get there with all the flooding?

happygoose

No issue with the floods where the AIT arena is, I think I'm doing the 300 too. Best of luck!

IvoryTower

ah thanks for that, same to you!

IvoryTower

How did you get on happygoose? I done small report there in my log. I was in heat 7 btw

happygoose

Just read it, that was good going IT, really good going for a first rattle!

I ran 41.1. Not overly pleased with it. In a lot of respects it was a carbon copy of your evening / race, bit of a rush, then a wait around with the c*ck up with the starting equipment had us waiting for the guts of 30 mins. Ran in lane 5, sh!te out of the blocks, and never relaxed into the race, I was a scrunched up mess. Shockingly bad form and technique

I take it for what it is, just a trial. A good experience, best to make these mistakes now. I hadn't raced for 6 months and didn't know where I was at, I was hopeful of a 39, would've taken a 40, ended up with a 41.1.

From here, I hope to race 400's like f*ck ahead of March. I've gone and totally focused my training on that distance, so I'm hoping for big improvements between now and then, I'll have to get down to 39 shape for 300 if I'm to have a chance at the National Masters.

Chivito550

happygoose wrote: »

Just read it, that was good going IT, really good going for a first rattle!

I ran 41.1. Not overly pleased with it. In a lot of respects it was a carbon copy of your evening / race, bit of a rush, then a wait around with the c*ck up with the starting equipment had us waiting for the guts of 30 mins. Ran in lane 5, sh!te out of the blocks, and never relaxed into the race, I was a scrunched up mess. Shockingly bad form and technique

I take it for what it is, just a trial. A good experience, best to make these mistakes now. I hadn't raced for 6 months and didn't know where I was at, I was hopeful of a 39, would've taken a 40, ended up with a 41.1.

From here, I hope to race 400's like f*ck ahead of March. I've gone and totally focused my training on that distance, so I'm hoping for big improvements between now and then, I'll have to get down to 39 shape for 300 if I'm to have a chance at the National Masters.

What's your goal for the 400m time wise? If you want to run sub 55, then you'd need to be in 39 shape alright (maybe 39 low to mid), but not necessarily 39 shape indoors. Baseline meet is really just a glorified training session, so wouldn't give it a second thought.

eldiva

Can the results for Baseline be found anywhere?

happygoose

Chivito550 wrote: »

What's your goal for the 400m time wise? If you want to run sub 55, then you'd need to be in 39 shape alright (maybe 39 low to mid), but not necessarily 39 shape indoors. Baseline meet is really just a glorified training session, so wouldn't give it a second thought.

Aye, exactly, it's just a blow out. That's where I hope to get to by summertime Chivito. I don't know if I'll find that kind of time but I'm putting everything into it atm. I won't invest too much in any times I run before February, doing a lot of heavy work, but I'd like to hit 55 high come March. 400 training is so so new to me.

pconn062

Biased because he is in my own club but Tomás Cotter showing some excellent early season form winning the 3k in 8.06, a PB. Good to see Paul Robinson back as well, finishing in 8.11.

IvoryTower

pconn062 wrote: »

Biased because he is in my own club but Tomás Cotter showing some excellent early season form winning the 3k in 8.06, a PB. Good to see Paul Robinson back as well, finishing in 8.11.

Saw that alright. Few of the younger lads looked good, battling with oisin from boyne, I spent most of the race watching them!

Sacksian

eldiva wrote: »

Can the results for Baseline be found anywhere?

Results from last night:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ikiyfvfmpfe6l6t/2015%20AIT%20Baseline%20T%26F%20Provisional%20Results.xls?dl=0

happygoose

I guess it's timely to give this thread a bump!

What's everyone up to now? First race of the season picked? I've never ran indoors before, aside from the two baseline meets. Looking forward to it, I will race pretty regularly, I'm still trying to learn all this stuff. Next up is the Masters 200 at the Munsters on the 17th

Chivito550

happygoose wrote: »

I guess it's timely to give this thread a bump!

What's everyone up to now? First race of the season picked? I've never ran indoors before, aside from the two baseline meets. Looking forward to it, I will race pretty regularly, I'm still trying to learn all this stuff. Next up is the Masters 200 at the Munsters on the 17th

200m at Nenagh. That's brave stuff. Haven't run there before but have heard the bends there are more akin to corners. One lad told me he kept separate PBs for each of the 4 lanes there and his Lane 1 200m PB was 1 second slower than his lane 4 PB. Should be a bit of craic, but I certainly wouldn't get bogged down with the result.

I'm still injured. Only started back jogging at the weekend so I'm still a good bit away from competing at the moment. Frustrating as I love indoors!

IvoryTower

400m in athlone on 31st I believe. almost 3 weeks to shed the Christmas belly

happygoose

Chivito550 wrote: »

200m at Nenagh. That's brave stuff. Haven't run there before but have heard the bends there are more akin to corners. One lad told me he kept separate PBs for each of the 4 lanes there and his Lane 1 200m PB was 1 second slower than his lane 4 PB. Should be a bit of craic, but I certainly wouldn't get bogged down with the result.

I'm still injured. Only started back jogging at the weekend so I'm still a good bit away from competing at the moment. Frustrating as I love indoors!

Cheers, an infamous place, I don't know what to expect, the worse maybe, and hope for the best. No Masters 400 on the schedule for some reason.

Must have a look to see what's on on the 31st in Athlone, if its only to get a time.

Oiriallach

IvoryTower wrote: »

400m in athlone on 31st I believe. almost 3 weeks to shed the Christmas belly

Is it not the Irish U20 & U23 Championships on the 31st? So only for those born from 1994 to 1996 (U23) or 1997 to 2000 (U20) inclusive?

Chivito550

Oiriallach wrote: »

Is it not the Irish U20 & U23 Championships on the 31st? So only for those born from 1994 to 1996 (U23) or 1997 to 2000 (U20) inclusive?

League Round 2 is that weekend. Think it's on sat 30th.

IvoryTower

Sorry it is the Saturday alright, will double check thanks

Sacksian

happygoose wrote: »

I guess it's timely to give this thread a bump!

What's everyone up to now? First race of the season picked? I've never ran indoors before, aside from the two baseline meets. Looking forward to it, I will race pretty regularly, I'm still trying to learn all this stuff. Next up is the Masters 200 at the Munsters on the 17th

I've only run indoor twice - the 3k baseline in December 2014, and Leinster masters last February (a successful 800+1500 double!), and really enjoyed the experience. The track itself is incredible, although I wonder if it'll start losing a bit of that bounce in the next couple of years.

The plan is to try and race a bit this month, Indoor League x 2 (800 in R1 & 1500 in R2) + Galway indoor champs if I can figure out how to enter, and then, hopefully, train through February/March until the indoor masters. I was thinking of doing the Munsters on the 17th too, but I don't think there's a lot to be gained from that.

My main target is probably 800 but I'll decide what direction to go in training after the first couple of races - I'm thinking speed is more of an issue at the moment than fitness. I've only run at mile pace on a couple of intervals in the past few months but nothing faster so will have to revisit that in the next 10 days and see what happens.

Of course, the most likely outcome is getting injured before, during or shortly after the first race...

Timmaay

Indoor league 800m 16th Jan, could well be the last year I'll be needed for the team ha, I'll be doing well in the future to stay ahead of the juniors in the club ha.

dna_leri

My current target is 800m at National Masters in March 20.
Before that I hope to run Leinsters on March 06 & Connachts Feb 21 and maybe one more. Would like to run 400m in one of them, probably 800s in the rest.

Training has been going reasonably well, only missed one day over Christmas holidays, but still feel like I put on weight.

Not as fast as I would like to be but I was just reading back over my old log and when I ran my PB, I did not start any race pace work until the last 8 weeks. So with over 10 weeks to go, I just need patience.