The Middle Distance Thread

Timmaay

ecoli wrote: »

Got the official start of track season "how you fixed for the leagues?" beckoning from the club so I better get cracking on hurdle work soon.

Have well and truly lost the steeple spot on my league team ha, I just got to hope I can wrestle an 8 or 15 spot off one of the others!

And graded next week, ok going to do 800 and not 3k, as 15 really is the focus this summer, and follow the 5k lastnight I'm happy that my endurance isn't a huge issue.

ecoli

Timmaay wrote: »

Have well and truly lost the steeple spot on my league team ha, I just got to hope I can wrestle an 8 or 15 spot off one of the others!

And graded next week, ok going to do 800 and not 3k, as 15 really is the focus this summer, and follow the 5k lastnight I'm happy that my endurance isn't a huge issue.

Feck it if your not making the team gonna have my work really cut out as I thought being in decent shape this year I may actually be able to pip you

Timmaay

In that case I'll guest in it just to kick your ass!

pconn062

First time back in the spikes last night in a few months and the calves are killing me today. Really bad, like, struggling to walk down the stairs bad! Hammies and everything are tender, this 800m next week will be a real shock to the system!

Timmaay

pconn062 wrote: »

First time back in the spikes last night in a few months and the calves are killing me today. Really bad, like, struggling to walk down the stairs bad! Hammies and everything are tender, this 800m next week will be a real shock to the system!

What session? I usually fine the actual session does the damage more than wearing spikes for the 1st time, ie did you do something at 800pace and your body just isn't use of it? In any case I've kept up afew 8 sessions in spikes over the last 2months since the indoors, only like one every 2/3wks. Nothing can prepare ya for the 1st 8 of the season however ha, its usually my lungs that are the worst, can always taste blood after it ha!

RuinedEye

pconn062 wrote: »

First time back in the spikes last night in a few months and the calves are killing me today. Really bad, like, struggling to walk down the stairs bad! Hammies and everything are tender, this 800m next week will be a real shock to the system!

I had my first spikes session last night also (15x200m) but my calves probably feel better than before the session (Very surprised, maybe a delayed reaction and they might kick in tomorrow), A good roller session and a spell in some cold water afterwards does well.

Sacksian

Timmaay wrote: »

Nothing can prepare ya for the 1st 8 of the season however ha, its usually my lungs that are the worst, can always taste blood after it ha!

Jesus...I must be doing it wrong! Might just stick with the 3k so!!

ecoli

Timmaay wrote: »

its usually my lungs that are the worst, can always taste blood after it ha!

Sacksian wrote: »

Jesus...I must be doing it wrong! Might just stick with the 3k so!!

Don't worry S I don't reckon its as bad as you think. I always thought it was me getting spiked when racing Timmaay but now I know the truth

I remember last year however doing my one and only 800m (very unfit last year) finished and spent the next hour wretching with that metallic/blood taste present. Nothing like a hard 800.

pconn062

Timmaay wrote: »

What session? I usually fine the actual session does the damage more than wearing spikes for the 1st time, ie did you do something at 800pace and your body just isn't use of it? In any case I've kept up afew 8 sessions in spikes over the last 2months since the indoors, only like one every 2/3wks. Nothing can prepare ya for the 1st 8 of the season however ha, its usually my lungs that are the worst, can always taste blood after it ha!

Yeah first 800m session of the year, apart from a few strides. 600m time trial (1.36), then 2x(4x200m), 33 second average. Only wore the spikes for the 600m then flats for the rest of it. Think it was more the session as well rather than the spikes. Still in bits today and the hammies are killing me too. Hopefully they feel better than this before next Wednesday! Lungs were on fire after the 600m!

KielyUnusual

So who's doing what on the Wednesday and how are we set?

I'm down for the 3k. I stupidly registered for the 'B' race last week but now think I would be better off at the back of the 'A'. Hopefully there's not too much hassle to change on the night.

Timmaay

KielyUnusual wrote: »

So who's doing what on the Wednesday and how are we set?

I'm down for the 3k. I stupidly registered for the 'B' race last week but now think I would be better off at the back of the 'A'. Hopefully there's not too much hassle to change on the night.

Before there was never any hassle switching grades on the night, but with the new online reg and entries closing the morning, I'd drop them a quick email and explain it to them, its less hassle for them also 2bh, esp as its the very 1st night they are using full online reg and they will probably be busy ironing out any small problems etc.

pconn062

I'm down for the 800m, went into the C grade to suss out the standard on the first night. My PB is from a few years ago and is really shoddy so I left that section blank in case they look at it and bump me down to the D grade! :pac:

KielyUnusual

Timmaay wrote: »

Before there was never any hassle switching grades on the night, but with the new online reg and entries closing the morning, I'd drop them a quick email and explain it to them, its less hassle for them also 2bh, esp as its the very 1st night they are using full online reg and they will probably be busy ironing out any small problems etc.

I was thinking along the same lines. Might just drop them an e-mail in the morning and see what they think. I'm still not 100% decided. Looking at the 'A' grade last year has the last finisher coming in at 9.11, which would be about the best I'd be hoping for. Winner of the 'B' grade was 9.16. Basically, I think I'm somewhere in the middle of the two. Might see what ecoli and Sacksian are doing if they're both lining up and we could get a good old race going.

KielyUnusual

pconn062 wrote: »

I'm down for the 800m, went into the C grade to suss out the standard on the first night. My PB is from a few years ago and is really shoddy so I left that section blank in case they look at it and bump me down to the D grade! :pac:

Looking at the results from last year, I think you'd be perfect in this race. Looks to be a bulk of runners around the 2.10 mark, so you'd have plenty to pace off.

Chivito550

KielyUnusual wrote: »

So who's doing what on the Wednesday and how are we set?

I'm down for the 3k. I stupidly registered for the 'B' race last week but now think I would be better off at the back of the 'A'. Hopefully there's not too much hassle to change on the night.

I'm out of Wednesday as it is too early for me to start racing as I've only got back training after a break. I would have liked to have run the 100 and 800, and I probably won't get an 800m in now as it clashes with the 400m for the rest of the graded series. It feels a bit weird saying that, as in Melbourne I had the opportunity to run over half a dozen 800m races on top of all my 400s. Looks like I'll have to get used to less racing which doesn't fit well with my style. These meets should be fun though.

Timmaay

pconn062 wrote: »

I'm down for the 800m, went into the C grade to suss out the standard on the first night. My PB is from a few years ago and is really shoddy so I left that section blank in case they look at it and bump me down to the D grade! :pac:

Down for the b grade myself, can anyone remember what they are usually won in? I'll be aiming for a decent 1st lap, 58ish.

KielyUnusual

Timmaay wrote: »

Down for the b grade myself, can anyone remember what they are usually won in? I'll be aiming for a decent 1st lap, 58ish.

I just had a look at the corresponding meeting last year. They don't divide up the grades but they give the positions and you can sort of work out which grade is which

Graded Meet 1 2013

ecoli

KielyUnusual wrote: »

I just had a look at the corresponding meeting last year. They don't divide up the grades but they give the positions and you can sort of work out which grade is which

Graded Meet 1 2013

Was looking at this myself. Seem to be caught in limbo with a target of 9.15 . Probably will opt for B given that I haven't raced anything less than 10k since January so not sure how the body will react

KielyUnusual

ecoli wrote: »

Was looking at this myself. Seem to be caught in limbo with a target of 9.15 . Probably will opt for B given that I haven't raced anything less than 10k since January so not sure how the body will react

Might just stick with the B myself since I've already registered for it. My thinking it that it won't make too much of a difference either way and there should be people to work with for the first mile or so in both cases. Last year's results are the only real indicator you have but anybody could show up on any given night, such is the nature of the Graded Meets.

Sacksian

I wouldn't worry about being registered for the B - the email I have says that I'm registered for the 5k! Will have to send an email myself.

I'm almost 100% running the 3k A.

The danger of running in the B is that there's not enough bodies at the front or it becomes a tactical race and you don't get a decent time, in which case it's a bit of a waste of time.

The only danger of running in the A is that I finish (hopefully!) 20 seconds behind everyone else. I'll try to pick a few heads and pace off them as long as I can, so it's a one- or two-lap death march at worst.

ecoli

Sacksian wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about being registered for the B - the email I have says that I'm registered for the 5k! Will have to send an email myself.

I'm almost 100% running the 3k A.

The danger of running in the B is that there's not enough bodies at the front or it becomes a tactical race and you don't get a decent time, in which case it's a bit of a waste of time.

The only danger of running in the A is that I finish (hopefully!) 20 seconds behind everyone else. I'll try to pick a few heads and pace off them as long as I can, so it's a one- or two-lap death march at worst.

I think its a good point regarding A and B. Happened me about 2 years back when I decided to make the (premature) leap to A. Basically worked too hard for first mile to stay with a pack and died a death which cost me a PB. However that was aiming for a sub 9.35 so I would say you shouldn't have the same issue.

Chivito550

All this talk about Grades A, B, C etc, now that there is online entry, would it not be far more logical to simply grade the races based on entry times, after all entries have been submitted. So if there are, for example, 30 entries for the men's 400m, then the top 8 entry times go into Race A, the next 8 into Race B, the following 7 into Race C, and the final 7 into Race D. It keeps the races even, avoids the hassle of people wanting to change grade, and is ridiculously easy to do.

Sacksian

There can be several races at each grade. It's not actually a problem - it lets the athletes decide what grade they want to run in as they probably have the best idea of knowing what shape they're in.

And it seems to work - I've never seen a 2:10 runner in a Grade A 800!

For the 3k, I'm on the cusp of either Grade A or B, depending on my actual fitness. Given that there are very few 3k races, I'd be pretty pissed off if I felt in really good shape and was forced to run in the B grade, based on an out-of-date PB.

In my experience, the current set-up works perfectly well - the main variable is your own estimate of *current* fitness, which would not be solved by relying on PBs (especially for infrequently-run races).

Timmaay

Sacksian wrote: »

There can be several races at each grade. It's not actually a problem - it lets the athletes decide what grade they want to run in as they probably have the best idea of knowing what shape they're in.

And it seems to work - I've never seen a 2:10 runner in a Grade A 800!

For the 3k, I'm on the cusp of either Grade A or B, depending on my actual fitness. Given that there are very few 3k races, I'd be pretty pissed off if I felt in really good shape and was forced to run in the B grade, based on an out-of-date PB.

In my experience, the current set-up works perfectly well - the main variable is your own estimate of *current* fitness, which would not be solved by relying on PBs (especially for infrequently-run races).

Agreed, the only change to online reg I'd make is to putup the expected standards of each grade, this info was on the paper entry forms before however hasn't yet being put online.

ecoli

Sacksian wrote: »

There can be several races at each grade. It's not actually a problem - it lets the athletes decide what grade they want to run in as they probably have the best idea of knowing what shape they're in.

And it seems to work - I've never seen a 2:10 runner in a Grade A 800!

For the 3k, I'm on the cusp of either Grade A or B, depending on my actual fitness. Given that there are very few 3k races, I'd be pretty pissed off if I felt in really good shape and was forced to run in the B grade, based on an out-of-date PB.

In my experience, the current set-up works perfectly well - the main variable is your own estimate of *current* fitness, which would not be solved by relying on PBs (especially for infrequently-run races).

Agree with this. I can see them moving to the seeding system in time but I think best to do things one at a time and first see how the online registration goes first.

Sacksian wrote: »

And it seems to work - I've never seen a 2:10 runner in a Grade A 800!

True though I have seen people opt for a "confidence booster" :rolleyes:. Few years back I recall a guy running in grade D of the 1500m dropping a sub 60 last lap to blow the field out of the water despite having no business being in the race

Chivito550

Sacksian wrote: »

There can be several races at each grade. It's not actually a problem - it lets the athletes decide what grade they want to run in as they probably have the best idea of knowing what shape they're in.

And it seems to work - I've never seen a 2:10 runner in a Grade A 800!

For the 3k, I'm on the cusp of either Grade A or B, depending on my actual fitness. Given that there are very few 3k races, I'd be pretty pissed off if I felt in really good shape and was forced to run in the B grade, based on an out-of-date PB.

In my experience, the current set-up works perfectly well - the main variable is your own estimate of *current* fitness, which would not be solved by relying on PBs (especially for infrequently-run races).

Sorry, maybe PBs is the wrong word to use. Entry time would be a better description. If you're PB is 2:10 and out of date, but felt you were in 2:04 shape, then simply enter in the time you expect to run, and grade it accordingly. Similarily I've seen many people who might have PB's of 2:04, but were only in 2:12 shape, enter in 2:12 as an entry time, and got graded accordingly based on that.

ecoli

Chivito550 wrote: »

Sorry, maybe PBs is the wrong word to use. Entry time would be a better description. If you're PB is 2:10 and out of date, but felt you were in 2:04 shape, then simply enter in the time you expect to run, and grade it accordingly. Similarily I've seen many people who might have PB's of 2:04, but were only in 2:12 shape, enter in 2:12 as an entry time, and got graded accordingly based on that.

To be fair that is the current set up with manual entries uses this as there are time guides to each grade (looks like they haven't transitioned to online one yet)

The other issue is there are a number of times where due to numbers races merge grades to make up numbers

pconn062

KielyUnusual wrote: »

Looking at the results from last year, I think you'd be perfect in this race. Looks to be a bulk of runners around the 2.10 mark, so you'd have plenty to pace off.

That's what I'm hoping anyway! Maybe our goal should be to each move up one grade by the end of the summer!

Timmaay

Timmaay wrote: »

Down for the b grade myself, can anyone remember what they are usually won in? I'll be aiming for a decent 1st lap, 58ish.

Ok 1st session at 800 pace in a while this morning, 3x500 with 5mins job between each rep. The aim was to be as comfortable for as long as possible. Splits were 75, 77, 77. I'll admit the 60sec lap pace is definitely the limit as to where I'm still anyway comfortable, so I'm going to revise my opening lap time back to 60/61secs on wed, and aim for a 2.03.

KielyUnusual

Timmaay wrote: »

Ok 1st session at 800 pace in a while this morning, 3x500 with 5mins job between each rep. The aim was to be as comfortable for as long as possible. Splits were 75, 77, 77. I'll admit the 60sec lap pace is definitely the limit as to where I'm still anyway comfortable, so I'm going to revise my opening lap time back to 60/61secs on wed, and aim for a 2.03.

Are you still running the 800
on Wednesday? Would you normally do what sounds like a tough session so close to a race?