Beginning School at just four?

lazygal

It is not as easy to keep a child back/repeat a year as it was when I was in school (80s/90s). Nowadays there must be a very compelling reason to repeat and it can be very difficult to get a school to agree unless there are sound reasons.

I am waiting until my child is five to send her to school. I think four is early to start. Its not all about social and academic ability now, I'm thinking of the age she'll be doing the leaving cert, going to college, being able to go on nights out with her peer group and entering the workforce. I know of many people who felt they sent their child too soon, but I don't know anyone who regretted sending them a year after they might have be eligible to go.


Children also aren't unselfaware. They will know when they are struggling and in over their heads. I've seen this myself when I was a Montessori teacher. I don't understand the rush to start into primary school myself.

Gambas

Gambas wrote: »

They don't see themselves as 'failures' at 5 years of age. Unless someone decides to make them feel that way. In most schools they end up being split from their friends anyway because the classes are mixed from one year to the next and their friends change from one year to the next.

I don't know of any school that does this, and in single stream schools it isn't an option anyway.

"Their friends change from one year to the next"?

Sorry but it doesn't sound like you know much about either children or the irish education system

Gambas

So you don't think that children change friends from one year to the next in early primary school, and you know of no school that mixes the classes from year to year.

And yet you feel the need to tell me that I don't know much about children or the Irish education system.

I think that'll do for now.

lazygal

Gambas wrote: »

So you don't think that children change friends from one year to the next in early primary school, and you know of no school that mixes the classes from year to year.

And yet you feel the need to tell me that I don't know much about children or the Irish education system.

I think that'll do for now.

I don't know any school that mixes classes every year. The two schools closest to us either keep the same classes until third,then mix and keep the same till sixth, and the other has only one class of each year so mixing isn't possible. This is in Dublin.

TouchingVirus

I started school having just turned four in August. I had no option to do transition year and was never kept back so I did my Leaving Cert at 16 and would have started college having just gone 17. I chose to take a year out after school instead. I fancied working to try make a bit of money to survive the two years of college until my industrial placement. There was an element of being 17 and not getting into pubs/clubs too. When I eventually arrived at 18 I found quite a few people had landed into college at 17 and some who were still 17 themselves and going in to second year, turning 18 in late September. None of them regretted the decision to start "early" at all.

It's better to give you children a choice of a gap year at the late stage of their schooling than forcing them to have one at the start just so they'll fit the "18 & College" or "13 & Secondary" thing. If they are capable at 4 to go and enjoy school then send them in. When I have kids I'll be sending them to school as soon as they're ready, and if it's at just gone 4 then so be it

rsl1976

My son just turned 18 and is in 6th year and i'm really struggling with getting him to stay in school as he thinks he is too old. I would have prefered him to start school at 4 instead of nearer 5. I myself would have just turned 4 in the july and never felt it was an issue.

Foodle

rsl1976 wrote: »

My son just turned 18 and is in 6th year and i'm really struggling with getting him to stay in school as he thinks he is too old. I would have prefered him to start school at 4 instead of nearer 5. I myself would have just turned 4 in the july and never felt it was an issue.

I would say there is more to his wanting away from school than just his age tbf

rsl1976

Foodle wrote: »

I would say there is more to his wanting away from school than just his age tbf

Oh i agree. Its just harder to argue with him now that he is 18:-)

clairefontaine

theLuggage wrote: »

Quick question for parents of school-going children at all stages.

Looking at our school's admission policy we seem to have the option of sending our girl to school in the year when she'll have just turned 4 (assuming they have the space). She will only turn 5 at the very start of Senior Infants so counting it along she'll start secondary just turned 12, doing her Junior Cert at 14 and her Leaving Cert (doing TY) at 17! She'll only turn 18 in her first her in college/work or whatever she's at after school. :eek:

Do you think it's very young to start? Has anyone started their child that young and how did it turn out? Any advice or thoughts?

Thanks

Can she tie her own shoe laces? Zip up her coat? Hang up her coat? Fully aware of toilet protocols?

Can she hold her own with stronger, bigger personalities?

Also - this will sound odd but- how tall/big is she? Is she tall and big for her age?

LegacyUser

I would wait and send you child to school at 5. I was chatting to a number of people I know about this.
I have been chatting to various people in regards to sending a child to school at 4 or 5.

One lady I know has a number of children of her own. She has worked as sna in a small school for 15 years plus. Over this period of time she has seen/had experience with a number of children. She told me that she sees a big difference in a child at 4 and one of 5.
She told me that most 4 year old's find it harder than at 5 and she told me this is true of boys.

Another couple I know decided not to send there child to school until the child was 5.9.
There child was not ready from a maturity point of view until this age but are now doing well and is happy in school.
Another couple they know sent there son to school aged 4. He found school hard since he started, is getting help with reading/writing and does not like school. They told my friends that is would have been better to send him at 5 as he would be coping much better now.

I know now it is very hard to keep a child back in school. Also with the cut in the number of teachers class sizes have got bigger so it is harder to spot if a child has problems or finding school hard going.
If you send a child to school when they are not ready your putting them into a situation they can't cope with. They can find it hard to make friends and deal with the demands of school. Within a few years they may have problems in regards to keeping up with the rest of the class or be troublesome at school/home due to this.
It they find school hard going they are not going to be happy in school or enjoy learning or doing home work.
If a child starts school at 5 they are more ready for it and will be happier there long term.

LegacyUser

I am starting my daughter at 5. Her birthday is in May.

I started at 4 myself. I wasnt ready. My mother knew I wasnt ready but felt it was the done thing to send at four regardless. My birthday was in March so I wasn't (on paper) even a very young four! But I was the second youngest and the second smartest of 26 kids in the class. I know this because we had to do one of those standardized test things and I had to stand at the top of the class with another girl who was over a year older than me and have the teacher explain that I only got the highest score because I scored higher FOR MY AGE.
Anyway academically I was "well able" but socially I just could not keep up. I was also taller than most other girls so it wasn't obvious that I was one of the babies of the class ! I just always felt behind in that way I couldnt keep up with what was "cool" etc or even silly things like still believing in Santa and not knowing about sex and periods etc. I'd lash out in stupid ways then.
Now I'll fully admit I was very immature for my age on top of that and I don't know is coz Im a middle child too but I always felt in a rush to grow up - like I couldnt just enjoy being 7 I had to behave closer to 9 , that kind of thing. Transition year sorted me out but I wont lie I do wonder would my school days have been happier if I'd been older. Who knows

My brother also went at 4 and while he didn't struggle as obviously as I did he was also youngest and smartest and biggest in the class and just didnt know how to hold his own. There was no TY in his school so he was out at 17 and wasnt ready.
Maybe its our DNA maybe its the way our parents brought us up I dont know. There were of course other factors too But I'm waiting with my kid I just cant stick the thought of her going through the same things I did.

Lucyfur

My niece will turn 4 at the end of July and will be starting school in September. She has told her mum she'll be going and her poor mum is devastated :pac: She's extremely bright, has above average gross and fine motor skills, can dress herself, can share, can most certainly stand up for herself and is extremely independent. I think it depends on the child. My own son was 5 and even by then he wasn't ready from a social point of view.

lazygal

I wouldn't let a four year old decide on when he or she starts school, that's a decision the parents make.


How does a four year old decide on that anyway?!

Lucyfur

lazygal wrote: »

I wouldn't let a four year old decide on when he or she starts school, that's a decision the parents make.


How does a four year old decide on that anyway?!

She sees her siblings going and wants to go too.

lazygal

Lucyfur wrote: »

She sees her siblings going and wants to go too.

Still begs the question, who's in charge-the parents or the child? If she's dictating at four what'll she be like at 14?

Lucyfur

lazygal wrote: »

Still begs the question, who's in charge-the parents or the child? If she's dictating at four what'll she be like at 14?

Huh?

The child wants to go to school, is happy to go to school and it more than ready to go to school. She's not ''dictating''. I'd be delighted to have a child so eager to learn!

angelfire9

My now 12 year old started secondary school last September she was 4 starting primary her birthday is in August and while she is almost 2 years younger than some of her classmates she is not the youngest in school
Being tall & well built probably helps its not like she stands out as the baby of he year
She has never struggled academically though there was some teasing in primary as she was so much younger than her classmates
She's loving school though and is happy
Will do her Jnr Cert aged 14 will do TY and therefore sit LC @ 17 but with an August birthday will be 18 for college

My youngest turned three at Christmas
I will be sending her to school aged 4 years 9 months (September 2015) and am confident she will be fine

lazygal

Lucyfur wrote: »

Huh?

The child wants to go to school, is happy to go to school and it more than ready to go to school. She's not ''dictating''. I'd be delighted to have a child so eager to learn!

You said the child decided but the mother is devastated, so she's not happy with the decision. I find it bizarre that a child of four decides she's going to school and the parents just let her decide, it seems a very strange situation. Just because a chills thinks he or she is ready for something doesn't mean you just let them off to do it.

Lucyfur

lazygal wrote: »

You said the child decided but the mother is devastated, so she's not happy with the decision. I find it bizarre that a child of four decides she's going to school and the parents just let her decide, it seems a very strange situation. Just because a chills thinks he or she is ready for something doesn't mean you just let them off to do it.

She's devastated cos her second youngest wants to go to school instead of staying at home with her!

Anyway, moving on...

paperclip2

My daughter started 3 weeks after her fourth birthday and flew through school, loved it, did very well, no academic or social problems. I knew she was well ready for it when I sent her.

My son's birthday is in April so he could have started at 4 years and 4 months but I knew he wasn't ready so kept him out till the Sept after he turned 5. It was the right decision as he really needed that extra year in playschool. It definitely helped him settle into school more easily.

Its really down to the child and you know your own best. Some are ready at four, some might need to be six.

Jogathon

As a teacher, please hold back any child that is a young 4 until the next year. A child born in September to January should be able for school, as they would be at least 4 and a half. Any child born after that is in danger of finding school life too challenging. We see a huge difference in maturity levels and many children are trying to keep up with others who are a full year older than them. Imagine the stress of that! Generally, we can spot the youngest children in a class within an hour, all the way up to 6th class. The immaturity never leaves.

A child may be bright and scholastically very capable, but time is needed to develop maturity. Why rush?

theLuggage

Wow this has generated a lot of replies! Thanks everyone for the feedback, it's really helped me think about the issues involved. To answer some questions:

Yes the school has a policy to accept children aged four by end of September so it's possible for her to go - assuming they are not oversubscribed. They could well be and then the decision would be out of our hands anyway.

She's not actually school-going age yet or even near it! I just like to be really organised and am thinking down the road ;-) She's nearly one and a half and has an older sibling, 3years. I appreciate the points about her being able to go to the loo, do her own coat etc and will definitely keep that in mind when it comes to the actual decision. Oh and really appreciate the point of consulting with the creche/montessori which she attends. I hold my creche in the highest esteem and really value their opinions on my children.

I am a secondary teacher myself so am aware of how age can be a factor and finishing school young etc. To be honest I think I'm in agreement with the idea that it depends totally on the child. And unfortunately you cannot predict down the road how they will be in secondary school or life after. All we can do is keep an eye out for her and how she develops, like any parent does!

Thanks for sharing all the stories and experiences too :-)

riffmongous

Not a parent but I also started school young, finished the LC at 16, started uni barely 17 and I never had any real issues related to my age in school,no more so than my height, weight, wrist circumference,hair, etc, etc. In uni nothing other than having to go to the busier student pubs at 9 in the evening to meet my friends. After the 1st year that's not a problem anymore and finishing early can be a big help starting your career.

Now every child is different of course but I think once they are well raised and responsible they wont have any trouble.

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally, I would wait. Isn't it better for your child to be the one who is experiencing success, has a positive attitude to school, someone the other kids look up to because they are ahead of them, etc etc?

Just on that point, since when have kids started looking up to the ones who are better than them (unless you mean simply older than them)? The total opposite was the case in my day not too long ago

byhookorbycrook

As a primary teacher, I would say it depends on the child, BUT ,as a general rule of thumb I'd prefer to see a child being closer to 5 than 4. Being young will not be accepted by the DES as a reason for repeating the year and holding a child back can be devastating for them. There are talks than transition year will be done way with so don't count on that either.

bulmersgal

My daughter is 4 at the start and I am still undecided about sending her this sept, most of her friends from crèche will be going and they have been in same room 3 years so would hate for her to be staying in crèche and them going to school. She is slight bit immature but she's a messer at heart.

I will sit down with the crèche in next few months as I know she acts different (better) with them then me.

I just think 5 and a 1/2 is too old too start. She'd be 19 1/2 leaving if she done transition year.

pwurple

There is a great section in one of the freakonomics books on this. I think it goes something along the lines of children born in certain months doing better at sports, and the remaining months being better academically. Turns out it correlates well with the age they start school at, and cut off birthdays for teams (under 11 etc).

If you are bigger than all the other children in your class, you tend to get picked for the good teams and do better in your peer group for sport. If you are smaller/younger in your group you don't tend to do as well at sport, and usually end up focused on subject results instead.

I remember reading it and applying it to my own siblings... Anecdote I know, but it rang so true for us. Those of us who started younger all ended up with great points in the leaving but zero sporting achievments, where the ones who started at age 5 were the ones who got lower points, but piles of sports achievements. One of my brothers started at age 3, he turned 4 during that first september, and he ended up doing the best out of all of us with points and career. The one who was oldest to start is the one with all the sports accolades.

Anyway, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. All children are different, and all do better at different things. Interesting reading available on it though.

Here is a quick link on it... Check out the graph of the birth months for premiership footballers.
http://freakonomics.com/2011/11/02/the-disadvantages-of-summer-babies/

nikpmup

My niece is the second youngest in her class, she's 9. Some if the other kids in her class are 11, and they practically act like teenagers! There is a big difference in maturity there, IMO, even though my niece is a mature child, she is still a child whereas the other kids in her class are way beyond her socially.

My own son will be 5 starting, and I'm much happier about that. I left school at barely 17, and I was lost. My friend was only 16! Way too young to be out in the world!

Hannibal Smith

I was 5 when I started and I was the eldest in my class. Every one else started at 4.

My son started at 4 and he's one of the youngest in the class. Everyone else seems to be 5, or coming up to 5. Hes not 5 until April.

I don't see a difference between his behaviour or work and anyone elses, but then I'm not a qualified teacher lol. But he's flying with his homework, his reading is starting to take shape and he seems well able for it all. There's a bit of horseplay in the yard, but I put that down to his character rather than his age

pinkbear

I started my daughter at barely 4, and for primary I was convinced I had done the right thing. Now she's coming to the end of secondary (thankfully she got TY), but I really regret starting her early. When she was younger it was the little things that made me regret that decision - when others in her class were allowed ride in the front of the car, or go shopping together, and I didn't feel she was ready. When she got older - it was her having teenage melt-downs over silly things that shouldn't have mattered so much and she probably would have coped better if she wasn't always the youngest of her peers. She is extremely popular with older boys (unfortunately), and this was a problem as a barely 15 year old socialising with 18 year old boys. (I know some may say I could stop this, but often they were just a year ahead of her in school). Luckily TY gave her a good chance to catch up, as only some of her year got to do it.

Anyway, I know a few primary school teachers, and without fail they advise to wait. And let's face it, they are the best qualified to know.

Finally, have a look at the studies in this area. Invariably they find that children who are older than their peers gain confidence, self esteem and do better academically. That is NOT to say the early starters are doomed.... at the end of the day, dd did absolutely fine, but if I were given the chance to do it again I would not send her until 5.

yosemite_sam

Foodle wrote: »

Children born from June 1 on should have to wait the extra year.

Why? mine were born in June and August and they both started when they were four