The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

digzy

dirtyden wrote: »

I would not be quite as strong as that Digzy. He gave a few very poor decisions at key times against us, he also gave a few soft frees to us as well. Overall I would say he favoured KK slightly more but he was just a little inconsistent in general. To be fair the decisions he got wrong were nearly all ones where he was a bit of distance away, which is never easy for a hurling ref.

True, just felt that those two decisions in particular cost a 2 point swing. Yeah it's hard for a ref to keep up with he speed of a game like that.

Xenophile

Very tough game to lose.

What we need most now is good psychological coaching to get us in the right frame of mind for the Championship.

cnoc

Roll on Limerick. Tipp should win well.

digzy

Xenophile wrote: »

Very tough game to lose.

What we need most now is good psychological coaching to get us in the right frame of mind for the Championship.

Why would you say that? What aspects of today's performance exhibited they were lacking on that front?

They hung in there till the very end in a savage battle. Any honest assessment of that game would suggest either side would be worthy victors. I'm looking forward to another crack off them later in the year. Mind you a win would be nice too!

mags85

Anyone else see Cody in tipps dugout during the first half? We were behind the dugout and saw Cody shouting at someone then he walked down to the dugout still shouting, he had to be told to move away by 3 tipp lads and the linesman. Then after full time, before extra time when the players were going down the tunnel Cody had to be held back from having a go at Lar. So I assume the person in the dugout was Lar? Also think it's a disgrace that Cody is allowed to get away with that carry on and not be reprimanded for it.

As regards the match, surprisingly I'm not disappointed we lost. Tipp put in a great performance today and are back on track. Though I would never hope we would lose a match, I think it's better for us going into the championship having lost the final on a good performance. Winning the league might have inflated egos that have taken a long time to deflate.

As a side note, I thought reffing today was atrocious.

tippspur

Sickened after the way that turned out,I thought we had it a couple of times but it's hard to get the better of this KK side,I have no idea what the ref gave the free against Barrett for,that was a soft point for them,also it looks like KK got a point that was actually wide.Great display by Tipp though and we're defiantly going in the right direction,bring on Limerick on June 1st.

swoofer

can you imagine if that was a sky premiership match, that ref would never ref a game again.

His decisions were diabolical and it was the ref that won it for kilkenny plain and simple. I bet if tipp won in the same manner we would have a different analysis, Brendan Cummins made a small reference to it. And ref was booed and quite right too. From my recollection if you shoulder a guy over the sideline its ok but if you push him over its a foul. Noel Mcgrath had no hurley at one stage and was pushed over the line but no foul.

That foul he called on Barrett was pure spite and then moved it to the centre. Hurling is fading fast as the refs are c..p. No one stands up and calls it as it is. Even I saw that point that was given was wide and that was on c..p TG4 country mugs get sd but HD in the cities.

That game was a disgrace to hurling and blame should be laid firmly on the referee. And I dont think he was even up with the play most of the time.

The second penalty was charging plain and simple and even with the ref tipp blew it, what was gleeson thinking!! the sideline move by kilkenny was class. I wonder what the kilkenny papers will make of it?? It was a poor way to win a 3rd title.

varberg

Ref gave kilkenny a lot of dubious calls. he tried to even it up by giving tipp a free for little near the end but after giving so many to kk and two pennos he had already made the crazy calls. The standard of reffing at intercounty level is atrocious they all blow for differant things.

Good showing by tipp but apart from gearoid ryan our subs contributed little. We missed some scorable chances too putting them wide. The return of lar and paddy stapleton will strengthen the panel. i thought kennedy or forde or breen or kenny would get some game time today. going back to shane macgrath or john o brien is not the way forward. They havent the pace any more. Gearoid ryan was outstanding when he came on. Barrett cleaned out shefflin and we would have won had the referee not made so many poor decisions against us. Sets us up for the championship but we will still need to learn how to beat them.I think we have the hurlers to beat them.

The old stand went crazy when cody went into the tipp dugout. watched it back he was actually in the dugout shouting way longer than was shown on telly. Would be interesting to hear what it was about.

evolving tipperary

Apparently he was after Lar...

The Lost Sheep

mags85 wrote: »

Anyone else see Cody in tipps dugout during the first half? We were behind the dugout and saw Cody shouting at someone then he walked down to the dugout still shouting, he had to be told to move away by 3 tipp lads and the linesman. Then after full time, before extra time when the players were going down the tunnel Cody had to be held back from having a go at Lar. So I assume the person in the dugout was Lar? Also think it's a disgrace that Cody is allowed to get away with that carry on and not be reprimanded for it.

As regards the match, surprisingly I'm not disappointed we lost. Tipp put in a great performance today and are back on track. Though I would never hope we would lose a match, I think it's better for us going into the championship having lost the final on a good performance. Winning the league might have inflated egos that have taken a long time to deflate.

As a side note, I thought reffing today was atrocious.

Ref wasn't atrocious. Not top of his game but wasn't terrible either. As was working during game wasn't fully concentrating on game so didn't see Cody incident. If incident is as you describe Cody should be penalised in some way but I doubt he will. Im not disappointed we lost either. Performance was good and in the main everyone stood up and looked fairly good.
Didn't think ref was too bad and cert wasn't difference between the sides

swoofer wrote: »

can you imagine if that was a sky premiership match, that ref would never ref a game again.
His decisions were diabolical and it was the ref that won it for kilkenny plain and simple. I bet if tipp won in the same manner we would have a different analysis, Brendan Cummins made a small reference to it. And ref was booed and quite right too. From my recollection if you shoulder a guy over the sideline its ok but if you push him over its a foul. Noel Mcgrath had no hurley at one stage and was pushed over the line but no foul.
That foul he called on Barrett was pure spite and then moved it to the centre. Hurling is fading fast as the refs are c..p. No one stands up and calls it as it is. Even I saw that point that was given was wide and that was on c..p TG4 country mugs get sd but HD in the cities.

That game was a disgrace to hurling and blame should be laid firmly on the referee. And I dont think he was even up with the play most of the time.

The second penalty was charging plain and simple and even with the ref tipp blew it, what was gleeson thinking!! the sideline move by kilkenny was class. I wonder what the kilkenny papers will make of it?? It was a poor way to win a 3rd title.

first paragraph is total hyperbole. Ref wasn't at his best but wasn't that bad either and certainly wasn't the difference between the sides. KK deserved the win
Hurling cert isn't "fading fast" because of standard of reffing though who would want to be a ref in hurling/gaelic with level of abuse they get good or bad performance.
The game today wasn't certainly not a disgrace to hurling

varberg wrote: »

Ref gave kilkenny a lot of dubious calls. he tried to even it up by giving tipp a free for little near the end but after giving so many to kk and two pennos he had already made the crazy calls. The standard of reffing at intercounty level is atrocious they all blow for differant things.
Good showing by tipp but apart from gearoid ryan our subs contributed little. We missed some scorable chances too putting them wide. The return of lar and paddy stapleton will strengthen the panel. i thought kennedy or forde or breen or kenny would get some game time today. going back to shane macgrath or john o brien is not the way forward. They havent the pace any more. Gearoid ryan was outstanding when he came on. Barrett cleaned out shefflin and we would have won had the referee not made so many poor decisions against us. Sets us up for the championship but we will still need to learn how to beat them.I think we have the hurlers to beat them.
The old stand went crazy when cody went into the tipp dugout. watched it back he was actually in the dugout shouting way longer than was shown on telly. Would be interesting to hear what it was about.

Tipp got as many calls as KK did off the officials.
Maybe referees don't have a consistency in making rulings but considering the rule book etc is that a surprise? No. I referee in rugby and we have a bigger rulebook and don't have anywhere near the level of controversy...
We wouldn't have won regardless of the referee.

Ompala

Don't see how ya can really defend the ref, KK definitely got the better of the decisions.
What annoys me is the awful decisions by the umpires, and you can't say they didn't count since there was only 1 point in it at the end.

dirtyden

Ompala wrote: »

Don't see how ya can really defend the ref, KK definitely got the better of the decisions.
What annoys me is the awful decisions by the umpires, and you can't say they didn't count since there was only 1 point in it at the end.

I would defend the ref, some of the bigger decisions went against us, but it's a hurling match, with the speed of the game refs are on a hiding to nothing, I would love to see an experiment with a ref for each half might help where a ref does not have to make split second decisions from 60 yards away. Owens had an average game but there was no biase just the bigger decisions effected us more.

The umpires I would agree on. The 2 decisions they got wrong were abysmal, no excuse when that is all you have to call.

driver02

Would agree that the Ref was poor but not the deciding factor in the game, the umpires were even worse the two incorrect calls by them had a bearing but the deciding factor was the last free for Tipp. The goalie should have landed that in the KK square rather than trying a short one and playing his team into trouble. Watched the whole game from start to finish and wasn't impressed with this Goalkeeper finding his targets at all with his puck outs, now it might not have been all his own fault, if the short puck out is to work you need every one clued in, bit still I think his accuracy is off? Any opinions?

dirtyden

driver02 wrote: »

Would agree that the Ref was poor but not the deciding factor in the game, the umpires were even worse the two incorrect calls by them had a bearing but the deciding factor was the last free for Tipp. The goalie should have landed that in the KK square rather than trying a short one and playing his team into trouble. Watched the whole game from start to finish and wasn't impressed with this Goalkeeper finding his targets at all with his puck outs, now it might not have been all his own fault, if the short puck out is to work you need every one clued in, bit still I think his accuracy is off? Any opinions?

I actually thought his distribution was decent up until the mistake he made at the end of extra time, that was rushed and just a poor decision but I'd let that go as a rush of blood to the head. I have not seen the stats but I thought we won a lot more clean ball on our puck outs than kk did on theirs.

evolving tipperary

The puck outs and the puck out variation were good throughout the game - always a risky game playing the short game - but KK had such a stranglehold in general play - particularly in the second half that something else had to be tried. We certainly won ball - Noel McGrath won a lot of ball over Kennedy's head - I've a feeling we might see Tommy Walsh at corner back this year...

Have we shown our hand?

OAOB

I thought the ref was inconsistent but we probably got as many dodgey decisions at time as KK did, the difference is KKs soft frees had a huge bearing on the outcome. The umpires making 2 mistakes is unforgiveable.

I think the last few weeks have really got this team believing again. Barrett and Barry are going to benefit hugely from yesterdays experience. Brendan Maher was fantastic yesterday, covered a huge amount of ground and mopped up loose ball all day.
Midfield was hard working but when you see what Fennelly does for KK it's somewhere we need to improve. Gearoid Ryan did well when coming on and should be worth a look, hopefully he can stay healthy enough.
The forwards all worked hard yesterday, not convinced by Denis Maher yet but as a group they did well.
I think we need Lar as an option to come off the bench, if we had a scoring forward to come on with 15mins to go i think we'd have got over the line. With all due respect to John O'Brien I don't think he was ever going to change the game

evolving tipperary

At the end of the day KK were cuter, that bit more street wise around the field - the way they strangled our play in the second half - really put the shackles on us - before we would have folded and been steam rolled- but yet this is the league - it was not championship physical -

I think our new players hopefully will learn from it and come on -

Are we a bit slight - like every other team when it comes to KK power - I still think Clare have the kind of speed and type of player to give KK real problems - if they get the right ref - The way Clare play is kind of the opposite to KK - in a way I think we have the type of player that can unpick Clare

Ritchie Hogan was without peer yesterday - first class - Noel am close to him - but Hogan I thought gave a master class - Ritchie Power has not been training long and he'll get better - as will Larkin as the fitness comes to him -

We had them on the run - and Cody and teh boys were able to make the changes to straggle our game - we fought manfully - but we just need a tactic or a player which can power through their half back line - at times it looked to be Bonner - he was fantastic in the pressure and supply he brought - but there is no getting away from it his striking and ball control are not first rate

Good to see Barry, Barrett, Denis Maher, Niall O'meara - gain that experience...it should help them come on - hopefully Gar Ryan can get 100% fit - we need that tankish energy and his delivery is very good

We needed a few points from play yesterday from Seamie - he can't do it all the time - and he was great on the frees - but we needed just two points from him yesterday - that said - in my opinion - he was up against the greatest KK player of all time yesterday and one of the best of all time - for me he is better than Henry, Tommy, and Fennelly - those lads are first rate - but JJ is just epic- the form Seamie was in and he just held him scoreless and came out with ball - in the final when it matters came up trumps and it will be the same when it comes to championship - it's not even his position!!!! - asked to replace to Hickey and has gone on to become a better full than HIckey after being an unbelievable wing back...

Would have liked to have seen Breen or Forde exposed to that yesterday - to get a taste of that pace give them something to aim for

evolving tipperary

just 0-8 of the Kilkenny’s regulation total of 2-17 came from play...if someone said that to me before the game I would have been full sure we'd win -

That's the ultimate positive to take from the game - the defense is improving

robbiezero

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Have we shown our hand?

I bloody hope so. Nothing too wrong with that hand at all. I remember after a listless performance in last years league final, the general verdict was that we hadn't shown our hand.
As it turned out later in the Championship, we didn't have a hand to show.

I don't think Kilkenny have that much to add to their team to be honest. Larkin and Tommy Walsh are shadows of the players they were and I wouldn't fear them at all. Hogan back in centre back will improve them as will Joyce, but their main men are the Fennellys, Reid, the two Hogans, JJ, Paul Murphy.

Well guys and girls what can i say about yesterday? So much to digest.

Firstly the attitude and performance was spot on. We gave it everything and won this game during the 70 minutes on the scoreboard even if the incompetents thought otherwise. Our backs were excellent. We negated the Kilkenny goal threat completely.

Firstly i will say while yes Darren made a howler do we really need a replay so close to the Limerick game? it could prove to be a happy accident.

The decisions from the referee were beyond appalling. I would hope the refs committee continue to review and make changes to personnel behind the year because Owens had a shocker and there is huge huge question marks on his ability to referee at the top level after this clusterfúck.
His umpires at the town end didn't exactly cover themselves in glory either and highlighted the further need for Hawkeye. Kilkenny themselves will agree about umpiring standards given that they almost had a goal ruled out last year in the Championship against Waterford.

I need a better look at the second penalty award and Barrett's 'foul' on Henry but both they seemed very very harsh decisions considering what went on the other end of the field. Before TJ got his 'point' there was a foul on the Tipp man. The first penalty award looked a blatant charge, end of.

But do you know what? Were in a good position for the championship this year and we now have that mental ingredient of defiance. The lads will know they done enough to win but lost due to shabby officiating. Yes, we made some awful decisions ourselves in addition to Gleeson when we had possession in a critical area. Shane Bourke was guilty of waste. Shane Mcgrath could have done better with his marking too when he was brought on. We still have Lar to call upon come championship who will inflict damage. I worry about the strength in depth of our panel. We need more battling forwards to keep the first 15 on their toes. The subs that came on for Woody, O'Meara, and Denis Maher (who was particularly excellent) did not do enough. Gar Ryan excepted, Mcgrath was too loose and Bourke was very ineffective. Mick Fennelly who was nullified suddenly had two points unmarked from midfield.

But keep believing folks.....the dam is on the fringes of bursting...


Án Premier Abú!!

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

just 0-8 of the Kilkenny’s regulation total of 2-17 came from play...if someone said that to me before the game I would have been full sure we'd win -

That's the ultimate positive to take from the game - the defense is improving

Shows how loose we were in extra time. Shane Mcgrath should have been fresh but there you had Michael Fennelly completely unmarked for scores and also Richie Hogan.

igorbiscan

KK were just cuter when they won their ball,at times the Tipp backs were winning their ball well and then just blasting it aimlessly only for it to be won back by KK easily.It seems to be something of a trap Tipp fall into time and again when the game is in the melting pot.A bit more composure from Tipp would give us a much better record v KK. All said a very enjoyable game and a very good performance from the lads which sets us up nicely for the Limerick game.A huge difference to the
team that Clare beat so very very easily.

GerB40

igorbiscan wrote: »

KK were just cuter when they won their ball,at times the Tipp backs were winning their ball well and then just blasting it aimlessly only for it to be won back by KK easily.It seems to be something of a trap Tipp fall into time and again when the game is in the melting pot.A bit more composure from Tipp would give us a much better record v KK. All said a very enjoyable game and a very good performance from the lads which sets us up nicely for the Limerick game.A huge difference to the
team that Clare beat so very very easily.

Kilkenny are better than Tipp in the air, simple as that. They have been for a good while yet when the pressure is on Tipp seem to revert to the "puck it up the field and hope for the best" mentality. Eamon Ó Shea needs to address this because it's a weakness that any other team can exploit just as easily as KK so often do.

The short and fast puck out is the way forward IMO.

evolving tipperary

GerB40 wrote: »

Kilkenny are better than Tipp in the air, simple as that. They have been for a good while yet when the pressure is on Tipp seem to revert to the "puck it up the field and hope for the best" mentality. Eamon Ó Shea needs to address this because it's a weakness that any other team can exploit just as easily as KK so often do.

The short and fast puck out is the way forward IMO.

I think our distribution is improving and getting better. But I don't anyone else can apply pressure to a back the way the kilkenny forwards seem to be able to do. They are masters at it. But it has to be said, Bonner Maher was the best exponent of pressure on backs yesterday

evolving tipperary

I would never be dismissive of Walsh or Larkin - both a lot younger than Lar - I think that's more wishful thinking the reality - while they might not be able to summon the appetite for League - I think they will be different players come championship - Cody has expanded his squad and added to it - giving several players a kick up the arse...quite a luxurious squad he has to choose from...

While we can say Kilkenny were better in certain areas yesterday let us not forget that we scored 2 points more than them during the 70 minutes.

A wide for them was put on the board whereas a point for us was ruled out.

As for the atmosphere yesterday....Christ it was amazing. As a Tipp fan ive never experienced an atmosphere like it and that includes the Cusack stand in 2010.

Those who had doubts about Eamon well i think he has answered our doubts in spades. There is no way on earth that Declan or Tommy or all those who tried and failed before them (with the exception of the Sheedy mgmt) would have had Tipperary hurling at that intensity. A privelege to be there and witness it. Six teams are capable of lifting Liam this year and the two i wouldn't include (Limerick and the Decie) are well capable of upsets. Make no mistake anyway, we're back with a bang!!!

I actually got down to watching the first half of the match on tg4.ie there now and analysed it as much as i could. Ill try get down to watching the rest of the game later.

The lads really need to buck up on the little things. We were caught not marking up with 2 sideline balls in that first half alone. I mean at this level there really is no excuse. Did we learn anything from the first goal in the All ireland final back in 2011? We conceded one point from those two lapses.

Woodlock picked a ball off the ground which awarded them a free where Reid subsequently pointed their 4th point. Thats another point.

Niall O'Meara scored three points but had lads available in space. Perhaps they needed to shout louder to him i dunno. O'Meara normally has good self awareness and can spot a pass so its out of sorts for him.

Was very impressed with Noel in that first half. Really starting to show leadership and take off this year. The weight of expectation coupled with poor management in both 11 and 12 might have set him back a bit. Actually thought Seamie didnt do too bad either. Battled hard and in fairness he lived on scraps.

Maybe the lads resisted the chance to go for goals. They were definately there for them.

robbiezero

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually got down to watching the first half of the match on tg4.ie there now and analysed it as much as i could. Ill try get down to watching the rest of the game later.

The lads really need to buck up on the little things. We were caught not marking up with 2 sideline balls in that first half alone. I mean at this level there really is no excuse. Did we learn anything from the first goal in the All ireland final back in 2011? We conceded one point from those two lapses.

Woodlock picked a ball off the ground which awarded them a free where Reid subsequently pointed their 4th point. Thats another point.

Niall O'Meara scored three points but had lads available in space. Perhaps they needed to shout louder to him i dunno. O'Meara normally has good self awareness and can spot a pass so its out of sorts for him.

Was very impressed with Noel in that first half. Really starting to show leadership and take off this year. The weight of expectation coupled with poor management in both 11 and 12 might have set him back a bit. Actually thought Seamie didnt do too bad either. Battled hard and in fairness he lived on scraps.

Maybe the lads resisted the chance to go for goals. They were definately there for them.

Thought Noel was very good when he was moved out in to the half forward line. Much more in the game.

robbiezero

robbiezero wrote: »

Thought Noel was very good when he was moved out in to the half forward line. Much more in the game.

He made one unreal catch in that first half and won alot of rucks. Was very impressed with him. Too good a distributor to have him inside really.

Barrett did quite well in fairness but he is still a bit raw i feel. Needs the next winter in the gym to bulk him up a bit.

robbiezero

Deleted User wrote: »

He made one unreal catch in that first half and won alot of rucks. Was very impressed with him. Too good a distributor to have him inside really.

Barrett did quite well in fairness but he is still a bit raw i feel. Needs the next winter in the gym to bulk him up a bit.

Ya, He might need another year. Although I would be happy enough to have him on Graeme Mulcahy or Seanie Tobin v Limerick. Gives us some badly needed options anyway, if we need to put Cahill out on to the half back line.