The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

Xenophile

Something our footballers a boost, well deserved for their great efforts.

"The biggest mover after the league finals was Tipperary who advanced 2 places in the rankings, while Donegal dropped one place following their 6 point loss to Monaghan. Meanwhile, Cavan also dropped a place in the wake of defeat to a Roscommon team who climb one place above their near neighbours Galway. The division 1 final result did not affect the respective rankings of either Dublin or Derry.

I have managed to locate more results stretching back to 1994 and I have incorporated these into a larger database. The inclusion of these earlier results has slightly affected the current rankings, moreso in terms of overall points than in positioning (i.e. there is a greater spread between top and bottom teams – which is to be expected as in the points exchange system, lower ranked teams will "give up" points to higher ranked teams and this will become more apparent over time). The inclusion of these results also poses questions of the factors chosen in the current system as Kerry dominate from 2002 to 2012, denying no. 1 spot to all other All-Ireland winners in between with the exception of Cork. I will re-look at this and modify the factors (championship weighting, ranking spread and scoring difference) appropriately before starting the ranking for the 2014 championship (which has already begun with Mayo's win over NY, which will have no effect on the rankings). In any case, it is better that this problem is addressed now rather than in the future.

BTW, if anyone has links/sources of complete championship and league results from the early 1990s or earlier, I'd be very grateful to have access to them."

# Δ Team Ranking points
1 - Dublin 107,64
2 - Mayo 101,04
3 - Cork 100,63
4 - Tyrone 98,11
5 ▲ Kerry 97,66
6 ▼ Donegal 95,83
7 - Monaghan 94,69
8 - Derry 91,79
9 - Kildare 89,27
10 - Meath 88,21
11 ▲ Down 87,40
12 ▼ Cavan 86,41
13 - Laois 84,33
14 ▲ Roscommon 83,35
15 ▼ Galway 82,77
16 - Armagh 79,48
17 - Louth 77,76
18 ▲▲ Tipperary 77,21
19 ▼ Westmeath 76,67
20 ▼ Wexford 76,33
21 - Fermanagh 75,01
22 - Limerick 74,98
23 - Clare 73,24
24 - Sligo 71,79
25 - Wicklow 71,07
26 - Longford 70,92
27 - Leitrim 67,43
28 - Offaly 67,31
29 - Antrim 66,34
30 - Waterford 63,49
31 - London 60,54
32 - Carlow 59,77
33 - New York 54,10



Originally posted by laoisman11....in GAA............05-05-2014

Spirit of 67

Xenophile wrote: »

Something our footballers a boost, well deserved for their great efforts.

"The biggest mover after the league finals was Tipperary who advanced 2 places in the rankings, while Donegal dropped one place following their 6 point loss to Monaghan. Meanwhile, Cavan also dropped a place in the wake of defeat to a Roscommon team who climb one place above their near neighbours Galway. The division 1 final result did not affect the respective rankings of either Dublin or Derry.

I have managed to locate more results stretching back to 1994 and I have incorporated these into a larger database. The inclusion of these earlier results has slightly affected the current rankings, moreso in terms of overall points than in positioning (i.e. there is a greater spread between top and bottom teams – which is to be expected as in the points exchange system, lower ranked teams will "give up" points to higher ranked teams and this will become more apparent over time). The inclusion of these results also poses questions of the factors chosen in the current system as Kerry dominate from 2002 to 2012, denying no. 1 spot to all other All-Ireland winners in between with the exception of Cork. I will re-look at this and modify the factors (championship weighting, ranking spread and scoring difference) appropriately before starting the ranking for the 2014 championship (which has already begun with Mayo's win over NY, which will have no effect on the rankings). In any case, it is better that this problem is addressed now rather than in the future.

BTW, if anyone has links/sources of complete championship and league results from the early 1990s or earlier, I'd be very grateful to have access to them."

# Δ Team Ranking points
1 - Dublin 107,64
2 - Mayo 101,04
3 - Cork 100,63
4 - Tyrone 98,11
5 ▲ Kerry 97,66
6 ▼ Donegal 95,83
7 - Monaghan 94,69
8 - Derry 91,79
9 - Kildare 89,27
10 - Meath 88,21
11 ▲ Down 87,40
12 ▼ Cavan 86,41
13 - Laois 84,33
14 ▲ Roscommon 83,35
15 ▼ Galway 82,77
16 - Armagh 79,48
17 - Louth 77,76
18 ▲▲ Tipperary 77,21
19 ▼ Westmeath 76,67
20 ▼ Wexford 76,33
21 - Fermanagh 75,01
22 - Limerick 74,98
23 - Clare 73,24
24 - Sligo 71,79
25 - Wicklow 71,07
26 - Longford 70,92
27 - Leitrim 67,43
28 - Offaly 67,31
29 - Antrim 66,34
30 - Waterford 63,49
31 - London 60,54
32 - Carlow 59,77
33 - New York 54,10



Originally posted by laoisman11....in GAA............05-05-2014

20 years ago Offaly were 1 of the top sides in the Country , 28th on the list ! To be ahead of Westmeath , Wexford and Sligo is great and just behind Armagh and Galway .

robbiezero

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

20 years ago Offaly were 1 of the top sides in the Country , 28th on the list ! To be ahead of Westmeath , Wexford and Sligo is great and just behind Armagh and Galway .

I'd love to see how we manage to be ahead of Westmeath a Division 1 team this year.

Mantis Toboggan

33 counties listed in that football list but no sign of kilkenny.....

No one else would get away with it.

Spirit of 67

robbiezero wrote: »

I'd love to see how we manage to be ahead of Westmeath a Division 1 team this year.

They got relegated and took a couple of good kickings on the way . We have Armagh , Louth , Wexford and Sligo next year , should be a good gauge of how accurate the rankings are .

evolving tipperary

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/i-wont-sugarcoat-it-we-wanted-to-have-a-national-league-medal-in-the-back-pocket-before-championship-30278786.html

varberg

Tipp team this evening,
Tipp SH v Wexford-Logue,Saint,Padraic,Barrett; TStapleton,Brendan,Shane McG;Ronan,Woodie; GRyan,Callanan,O'Meara,Bubbles,Lar,Noel


Good few absent due to club games and possibly injuries too. Full back line is strong, half back line missing the two regular wing backs, ronan maher getting game time at midfield and lar getting matches under his belt up front.

glued

Tipperary 2-19 Wexford 5-19 FT

Logue
P. Stapleton P. Maher C. Barrett
T. Stapleton B. Maher S. McGrath
R. Maher J. Woodlock
G. Ryan S. Callanan N. O'Meara
J. O'Dwyer L. Corbett N. McGrath

Obviously a few missing but worrying that Wexford managed to get 5 goals and beat us by 9 points! Good to see Corbett back in and nice to see Ronan Maher get a run out.

tippspur

Well that's Logue's chances of getting the goalkeeping spot gone;)

varberg

varberg wrote: »

Tipp team this evening,
Tipp SH v Wexford-Logue,Saint,Padraic,Barrett; TStapleton,Brendan,Shane McG;Ronan,Woodie; GRyan,Callanan,O'Meara,Bubbles,Lar,Noel


Good few absent due to club games and possibly injuries too. Full back line is strong, half back line missing the two regular wing backs, ronan maher getting game time at midfield and lar getting matches under his belt up front.

glued wrote: »

Tipperary 2-19 Wexford 5-19 FT

Logue
P. Stapleton P. Maher C. Barrett
T. Stapleton B. Maher S. McGrath
R. Maher J. Woodlock
G. Ryan S. Callanan N. O'Meara
J. O'Dwyer L. Corbett N. McGrath

Obviously a few missing but worrying that Wexford managed to get 5 goals and beat us by 9 points! Good to see Corbett back in and nice to see Ronan Maher get a run out.

Where did this take place lads? We normally play Wexford, Kilkenny and Waterford in challenges in the South and Galway and Offaly in the North. Any more challenges to come?

Not too worried about the scoreline to be honest regardless of the weakened team

evolving tipperary

Dosen't look that weakened - I'm sure Wexford we're weakened as well - it's only a challenge

http://gaabanter.ie/kilkenny-get-bragging-rights-clare-james-stephens-friendly/

The Lost Sheep

robbiezero wrote: »

I'd love to see how we manage to be ahead of Westmeath a Division 1 team this year.

They'd a crap year including several big losses and relegation.

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

They got relegated and took a couple of good kickings on the way . We have Armagh , Louth , Wexford and Sligo next year , should be a good gauge of how accurate the rankings are .

That's 8-9 months before next years league with full championship plus a winter and pre season in between. those rankings have some relevance now but none for anything later than July of this year when qualifiers etc are fully up and running.

Deleted User wrote: »

Where did this take place lads? We normally play Wexford, Kilkenny and Waterford in challenges in the South and Galway and Offaly in the North. Any more challenges to come?

Not too worried about the scoreline to be honest regardless of the weakened team

Took place in Wexford in Oulart

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Dosen't look that weakened - I'm sure Wexford we're weakened as well - it's only a challenge

http://gaabanter.ie/kilkenny-get-bragging-rights-clare-james-stephens-friendly/

Not "only a challenge" considering its 2 weeks to the game against Limerick. Still several places up for grabs for the Limerick clash and its one of the final games before that game in Thurles

evolving tipperary

No - no...last time I checked... a challenge game was a challenge game....

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/lar-corbett-the-tipp-train-is-pulling-out-and-i-want-to-be-on-it-30284406.html

Mantis Toboggan

A challenge game two weeks before the first round of championship carries more significance. Players are still playing for positions. I generally wouldn't mind the scorelines BUT we were beaten by 9 points and conceded another 5 goals....

evolving tipperary

Does it yeah....so this challenge match carries more significance as to where we are than the league final then? This is the new barometer....the only barometer is the Limerick game - this challenge match means nothing

Mantis Toboggan

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Does it yeah....so this challenge match carries more significance as to where we are than the league final then?

Tell me where did I say that?

Calm down and stop embarrassing yourself.

The Lost Sheep

evolving tipperary wrote: »

No - no...last time I checked... a challenge game was a challenge game....

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/lar-corbett-the-tipp-train-is-pulling-out-and-i-want-to-be-on-it-30284406.html

Yes its a friendly but so close to opening game of championship its final shot at starting jersey for some, chance for players to show coaching set up what they can give

Buddy Holly wrote: »

A challenge game two weeks before the first round of championship carries more significance. Players are still playing for positions. I generally wouldn't mind the scorelines BUT we were beaten by 9 points and conceded another 5 goals....

+1

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Does it yeah....so this challenge match carries more significance as to where we are than the league final then? This is the new barometer....the only barometer is the Limerick game - this challenge match means nothing

Who said anything about league final. You only one who mentioned it. This game doesn't mean nothing and only barometer is not the Limerick game. Its a starting point of race for Liam but isn't only barometer

evolving tipperary

hahahahah - I'm as calm as a summer breeze!

The challenge match does not matter. The limerick game is the only barometer - as that's what a barometer is...to see where you are...- the next game is a final...so it's not a barometer....you get me, kid!

I mentioned the league final as it's the best barometer we have so far...but the Limerick game is the real barometer for championship - why - because it's the first championship game...

That make sense for you now?

The Lost Sheep

evolving tipperary wrote: »

hahahahah - I'm as calm as a summer breeze!

The challenge match does not matter. The limerick game is the only barometer - as that's what a barometer is...to see where you are...- the next game is a final...so it's not a barometer....you get me, kid!

I mentioned the league final as it's the best barometer we have so far...but the Limerick game is the real barometer for championship - why - because it's the first championship game...

That make sense for you now?

The friendly does matter and Limerick game is not the only barometer. It would be if it were do or die lose and we're out but its not. Losing is not end of the world and AI can still be won after a loss.

robbiezero

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The friendly does matter and Limerick game is not the only barometer. It would be if it were do or die lose and we're out but its not. Losing is not end of the world and AI can still be won after a loss.

If we lose to Limerick, it is very hard to see us being anywhere near an All-Ireland.

evolving tipperary

oh god...a barometer does not mean a do or die game...How would it be the only barometer if it were a do or die game - if it was an old knock out championship game then it would be the ONLY game worth thinking about it...

A challenge match is not a meaningful barometer for championship ... different pace and physicality -
the league final was almost like championship - ALMOST

The next game after the limerick game is a final or a knockout game - how can these games be barometers when there is something on the line...

Paddico

Does anyone know if the footballers have played any challenge matches since the Clare game in the league final?

Mantis Toboggan

Paddico wrote: »

Does anyone know if the footballers have played any challenge matches since the Clare game in the league final?

Played Kildare last week beat them 3:12 to 1:14 I think.

digzy

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Played Kildare last week beat them 3:12 to 1:14 I think.

Jesus, that's a fantastic result, even if it's only a challenge

Mantis Toboggan

digzy wrote: »

Jesus, that's a fantastic result, even if it's only a challenge

Twas a meaningless result, they might as well have been hammered by 9 points, sure twas only a challenge match nothing more nothing less. The barometer will come against Limerick.

Paddico

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Played Kildare last week beat them 3:12 to 1:14 I think.

Only the score mentioned on Twitter.
No reports, no updates, no team, nothing!

Wouldnt happen at inter county u-16 hurling, never mind senior

Decent result, all good for confidence

ReacherCreature

Also before the Wexford challenge match, the senior hurlers played Waterford in a similar contest but behind closed doors in Thurles. Waterford beat them by two points and Corbett played the full 70. That's all that's come out about the game.

With Corbett having featured in two games and now back to strength I imagine he should start come Limerick or at the very least, come off the bench.

evolving tipperary

If he did start who would you drop?

ReacherCreature

Leave Callanan there at #14 or move him to #13/15 but right now I would keep Callanan at FF. If you don't put Corbett in corners he works okay at half forward and since no one has really nailed down spots on the HF line (I assume Bonner and O' Dwyer will play at #11 or #10/12 respectively), Lar could feature there. I think it's about getting the best weapons at your disposal in those six spots: Bubbles, Bonner, Callanan should be certainties and if Lar is hurling well, put him in?

evolving tipperary

I don't know how fit he can be after two challenge matches after being out for so long - i have no problem with him starting if he is in form - I would like to see him as close to goal as possible. Corner forward or full - preferably corner. I would hold him in reserve as he would would be a good life to bring in with 15 to go...
and if you don't have to use him or he is not fit enough he will get a lot more training under his belt for the final if we make it - then you can start him or use him with 20 or 15 to go to lift everyone

everyone fit i would have - noel, bonner, gar, bubbles, Callinan, Lar

i would have no problem with - D Maher, Bonner, Noelie, O'meara, Callinan, Bubbles - starting

at least we have options - bourke, O'B and others on the bench