The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

evolving tipperary

we created 36 scoring chances - limerick created 32

the man who had teh most for tipp was Noelie with 18 and gar ryan then with 15

Wayne Mac had the ball 16 tiimes

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

James Ryan actually had more possessions than the other two Tipp midfielders put together....

and it gets worse James Browne had 1 and half more than the next team tipp midfielder

RYAN - 23 POSSESSIONS
BROWNE - 15
TIPP GUYS - TEN OR LESS

evolving tipperary wrote: »

we created 36 scoring chances - limerick created 32

the man who had teh most for tipp was Noelie with 18 and gar ryan then with 15

Wayne Mac had the ball 16 tiimes

Interesting stats there.

glued

Just having another day to reflect on the performance and it gets no better really. Hard to see the positives. The backs played well enough but weren't near their best. The fact that O'Shea didn't change it up early was key IMO. The 'soft' hurling set in and had O'Shea made an early change then that could of given a few lads a kick. Shane McGrath didn't play too badly but there was a lot of aimless ball being sent down the field from him and many others. The loss of Woodlock didn't help the flow of the team and actually affected Brendan Maher and Bergin quite badly. Not starting Denis Maher proved to be a poor decision. Denis is someone who could win his own ball and while Gar Ryan played well I thought he upset the balance of the side quite a bit with his aimless running. I think the tactic of playing Bonnar as a full forward was fairly laughable tbh. It's not his best position and it hurts the team quite a bit too. When he moved back he was fantastic but it was a crazy tactic to start with in the first game of the Championship.

Yet again in the Championship we've been knocked out by Limerick two years in a row and that's our third loss under Eamon O'Shea without being able to put a win together. I think at this stage reaching an All-Ireland semi-final should be a minimum achievement at this stage for him to stay on as manager. You hear all the former players talking about what a great coach Eamon O'Shea is but you get the impression that a lot of them don't think he'll be a great manager.

Serious improvement is needed over the next few weeks but it's hard to believe that a lot of these guys are capable of a resurgence as only last year this team suffered the same fate.

realdanbreen

I think its time for drastic action. Tipp's championship performances have not been acceptable for a long time now. The county board should sack Eamon O'Shea today.It would send a very clear message to the panel to up their game or they will follow him.

hawkwing

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/defiant-eamon-oshea-blames-tipps-huge-desire-for-shock-limerick-loss-30323556.html

O'Shea went on local radio last night to express his view that the team's "huge desire" to win may in fact have cost them the game. (glad we have it worked out now!)

"In terms of the way we're going, I'm pleased that we're making some progress."

It's a bit worrying that he thinks going from AI winnners,to 2 Munsters in a row,to 3 defeats from 3 in two years is progress. At least last year it was in Limerick-we are even going backwards from last year it seems to me. Nice that he is happy though...

Mantis Toboggan

Seems to be completely deluded.

I think it's time for a manager from outside the county.

Comordha

I think the team is better this year than last in many ways and should get on better in qualifiers than last year. If you look at Ray Boyne's GAA Analysis stats (https://twitter.com/AnalysisGAA) you'll see that Tipp improved in so many areas that they were poor in last 2 years, in particular winning ball from puck outs. The main thing that killed them was going for goal too often, there were several moments where a point could have been taken instead and that would have brought it so much closer. Limerick had a much higher scoring ratio also so Tipp need to cut-out all the wides and short shots that land in the goalies hand with nobody contesting or following up. Callanan was far too slow getting his shots off too, bocked far too often. Probably some tactical mistakes too but I certainly feel like this is a better Tipp team than last year and one that can only improve over next few years. It takes time to rebuild and the rebuild should have happened much sooner.

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

I think its time for drastic action. Tipp's championship performances have not been acceptable for a long time now. The county board should sack Eamon O'Shea today.It would send a very clear message to the panel to up their game or they will follow him.

So Babs, when we do 'sack' O'Shea are you going to throw your name into the hat and comeback for the third time? :rolleyes: Maybe come back in a caretaker capacity and see the season out or am i being a bit too ambitious to believe you might have actually thought out your theory and can back it up with something that even slightly resembles rational thinking as opposed to a Sun newspaper headline?

We're Tipperary, not Chelsea.

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Seems to be completely deluded.

I think it's time for a manager from outside the county.

I realise we're all frustrated here but sacking a manager at this part of the season would be an outrageous decision. If we go out next round then so be it. Ill agree that it will be then time for change but for now lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

In EOS defense, he defends his players in the media which all managers do. Would we prefer 'dead only to wash them' comments akin to the shíte Babs Keating came out with back in 07?. Separating himself from the failings of the team?

At the very least we should let him see out the year. Sacking him now would cause chaos

buggy beag

hawkwing wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/defiant-eamon-oshea-blames-tipps-huge-desire-for-shock-limerick-loss-30323556.html

O'Shea went on local radio last night to express his view that the team's "huge desire" to win may in fact have cost them the game. (glad we have it worked out now!)

"In terms of the way we're going, I'm pleased that we're making some progress."

It's a bit worrying that he thinks going from AI winnners,to 2 Munsters in a row,to 3 defeats from 3 in two years is progress. At least last year it was in Limerick-we are even going backwards from last year it seems to me. Nice that he is happy though...

Ya i would have been one of his greatest fans And I've had faith up until now.it looks an sounds like every interview is the same at this stage i.e. we are making progress,the teams progressing well,were working on different things at the min i don't care about this match because I'm focusing on a different match etc etc. An imo it will be a sad day if we have to Go outside the county for a manager

Comordha

Comordha wrote: »

I think the team is better this year than last in many ways and should get on better in qualifiers than last year. If you look at Ray Boyne's GAA Analysis stats (https://twitter.com/AnalysisGAA) you'll see that Tipp improved in so many areas that they were poor in last 2 years, in particular winning ball from puck outs. The main thing that killed them was going for goal too often, there were several moments where a point could have been taken instead and that would have brought it so much closer. Limerick had a much higher scoring ratio also so Tipp need to cut-out all the wides and short shots that land in the goalies hand with nobody contesting or following up. Callanan was far too slow getting his shots off too, bocked far too often. Probably some tactical mistakes too but I certainly feel like this is a better Tipp team than last year and one that can only improve over next few years. It takes time to rebuild and the rebuild should have happened much sooner.

Yeah id agree with you there that we are guilty of going for goals too often and are not clinical enough. Take last year against Kilkenny. We lost by three points but squandered three goal chances. All three of them could have been goals but ended up wide. We lack the bit of awareness and cuteness. We are not getting hammered by teams with O'Shea to be fair with the exception of the Clare game in the league

evolving tipperary

I agree that we have improved. It was a far better game than last year. That would not be hard from tipp's point of view - woeful in the limerick last year. But Limerick have improved too. They were better than last year.

Who knows where both teams will go from here - limerick might lose their next two games or end up in the final - who knows

One thing is for certain - we cannot line out in the that formation - with three luxury forwards or that spine to our midfield and backs against a top class side and expect to win - you must have men you can catch a ball regularly and be strong enough to hold a man up and not let him run through - it's essential - see Kilkenny and Clare

People questioning Gar Ryan's contribution - one of our highest carriers of the ball and our top scorer from play...what fresh hell is this!??!?!

Gar Ryan is twice the player Denis Maher is - that's pretty evident from any man's angle - not saying that Denis MAHER should not start - but he shouldn't be on the team sheet before Gar - does not have his power or energy or smartness - had a lot of chances for points and Denis took one...

glued

Not questioning Gar Ryan's play but I don't know whether it was tactics or Ryan himself but he was woefully out of position for a lot of the game. Left huge gaps.

evolving tipperary

That was the tactics - sure T.J. Ryan had said it in interviews in the lead up - Brendan Maher's man had done a lot of damage in the league final and that they would try to explore that - and that Patrick Bonner is vital to tipp - they must have been dancing when they saw him in the full forward line

Bergin seem to be spending a lot of time running into the forwards too...

It was madness...too theoretical

evolving tipperary

http://gaabanter.ie/double-injury-blow-kilkenny-ahead-championship-opener/


you'd have to feel for Rice

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

http://gaabanter.ie/double-injury-blow-kilkenny-ahead-championship-opener/


you'd have to feel for Rice

Id feel bad for Rice but after the cheering that some of their 'fans' done when Lar limped off last year i certainly have no sympathy for them

evolving tipperary

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/tipperary-a-team-who-have-forgotten-how-to-win-30323565.html

evolving tipperary

Gleeson
saint curran barrett
p maher o'mahony barry
b maher cahill
o'meara bonnar gar
bubbles d maher lar

You could have a stronger player like o'mahony as a sweeper - and then have an ace man marker like cahill pick up the the center forward - let d maher go wing forward and have gar ryan go midfield - if O'S still wants to go for his sweeper tactics - i think as a 15 on 15 it stands up pretty well

Those two balls that P Maher dropped were a disaster in the full back position - its not as bad out wing forward but when it happens around the house it leads to goals like Sunday and he was lucky that second one was disallowed

You could have woodlock in instead of D maher and leave Gar in teh forwards and put woodlock in midfield

What do people think of that?

realdanbreen

Deleted User wrote: »

So Babs, when we do 'sack' O'Shea are you going to throw your name into the hat and comeback for the third time? :rolleyes: Maybe come back in a caretaker capacity and see the season out or am i being a bit too ambitious to believe you might have actually thought out your theory and can back it up with something that even slightly resembles rational thinking as opposed to a Sun newspaper headline?

We're Tipperary, not Chelsea.


Well if you are happy with all this'progress' that we are making thats your business. I happen to believe that o'shea has to take responsibility for 3 very poor championshp games and the fact that we were poxed not to be facing relegation in the league. As for all this babs nonsense you are spouting, i take it you had few down when you posted.

Mantis Toboggan

What's the story with Curran, is he back training yet?

robbiezero

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Gleeson
saint curran barrett
p maher o'mahony barry
b maher cahill
o'meara bonnar gar
bubbles d maher lar

You could have a stronger player like o'mahony as a sweeper - and then have an ace man marker like cahill pick up the the center forward - let d maher go wing forward and have gar ryan go midfield - if O'S still wants to go for his sweeper tactics - i think as a 15 on 15 it stands up pretty well

Those two balls that P Maher dropped were a disaster in the full back position - its not as bad out wing forward but when it happens around the house it leads to goals like Sunday and he was lucky that second one was disallowed

You could have woodlock in instead of D maher and leave Gar in teh forwards and put woodlock in midfield

What do people think of that?

I'm not sure O'Mahony has the legs for centre back anymore. Once he is turned he is out of it. Have a look at Declan Hannons first point to see how easily he got away from O'Mahony.

O'Mahony is a great bit of stuff, but I think he would be exposed for toe at centre back. I would still persist with Brendan at centre back, but the midfield really need to tune in for this to work. Bergin seemed to get very far forward which left big gaps in midfield for the centre forward to pop up in.

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

Well if you are happy with all this'progress' that we are making thats your business. I happen to believe that o'shea has to take responsibility for 3 very poor championshp games and the fact that we were poxed not to be facing relegation in the league. As for all this babs nonsense you are spouting, i take it you had few down when you posted.

Coming from you that's a complete laugh. Im not saying he is making progress. Where did i say that? Im saying sacking a manager during a championship is an easily solution but what happens then?

Ill admit results will dictate that at the end of the day and he hasnt got any yet. But your suggesting he should be sacked half way through the championship? What good will that do? Who will come in instead so answer me that? Whats the master plan then Einstein?

Just more of the usual shíte we've become accustomed to with your posts.

robbiezero

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Those two balls that P Maher dropped were a disaster in the full back position - its not as bad out wing forward but when it happens around the house it leads to goals like Sunday and he was lucky that second one was disallowed

The first ball he dropped was a mistake, but it still shouldn't have led to a goal, it was a poor foul from O'Mahony when Brendan Maher had Dowling well covered.

The second one was a clear foul, Dowling played his hand. I thought Maher had a decent game especially in the second half. Limerick withdrew their two corner forwards to give Downes the width of the pitch, but Paudie destroyed him, the Limerick mentors were going mad with him. When Downes was switched out the field he did huge damage, cutting through for a point and handpassing off to Dowling for the goal.

realdanbreen

Deleted User wrote: »

Coming from you that's a complete laugh. Im not saying he is making progress. Where did i say that? Im saying sacking a manager during a championship is an easily solution but what happens then?

Ill admit results will dictate that at the end of the day and he hasnt got any yet. But your suggesting he should be sacked half way through the championship? What good will that do? Who will come in instead so answer me that? Whats the master plan then Einstein?

Just more of the usual shíte we've become accustomed to with your posts.

I have neither the time nor the interest in going forward and back with posts to you.i do have one bit of advice however,cut out the insults now if you have any sense, OK.

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

I have neither the time nor the interest in going forward and back with posts to you.i do have one bit of advice however,cut out the insults now if you have any sense, OK.

I asked you a question and i still haven't got an answer. What happens if Eamon O'Shea gets sacked?

Charlie69

Deleted User wrote: »

Id feel bad for Rice but after the cheering that some of their 'fans' done when Lar limped off last year i certainly have no sympathy for them

Very Mature

Charlie69

Charlie69 wrote: »

Very Mature

I was referring to the minority of morons. Bad luck for Rice though

Charlie69

Deleted User wrote: »

I was referring to the minority of morons. Bad luck for Rice though

Fair enough, agreed

Comordha

It is true that Bergin was very far forward a lot but in fairness to him he created many scoring chances - including Gearoid's goal - from that movement. I think O'Shea may have given him that permission. I felt the ref called the Paudie incident perfectly as his hand was played. You could say it cancelled out Tom Condon's hurl-butt to Niall O'Mearas face too as he was running at goal waiting for a pass at one stage. Nothing done by ref there, should havd been a booking & maybe a penalty. Thought Paudie did quite well at full back.

I watched the game again & the Tipp forwards just tried to score too many goals instead of tapping over a few easier points. I think that was all that was in it to be honest & there is hope. Sure 4 out of the last 5 All Ireland winners have come through the qualifiers.

The players deserve your gratitude, they can't be questioned on intent & fight, just some poor decision making in the end.

digzy

realdanbreen wrote: »

I think its time for drastic action. Tipp's championship performances have not been acceptable for a long time now. The county board should sack Eamon O'Shea today.It would send a very clear message to the panel to up their game or they will follow him.

I'm actually wondering who's posting the most bollix since the loss to limerick.
Gold medal to you on this piece of insightful brilliance but silver medal to the genius who suggested pa bourke needs to be brought back in:rolleyes:

digzy

digzy wrote: »

I'm actually wondering who's posting the most bollix since the loss to limerick.
Gold medal to you on this piece of insightful brilliance but silver medal to the genius who suggested pa bourke needs to be brought back in:rolleyes:

Whatever about being brought back in at this stage i dunno but id argue that Pa offered more then some of the lads on the panel up to and including recent times.

I mean Shane Bourke for example offers very little. Pa would at least do as much and more when you factor in that he can take frees he can actually do more. That's the rationale I'm using.

Then compare him to some of the others who were brought in such as Paddy Murphy, or Mikey Heffernan there is no doubt that Pa offers a bit more. Im not saying to necessarily bring in Pa but if he is going to be dropped then at least bring in better quality.