The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

digzy

Comordha wrote: »

It is true that Bergin was very far forward a lot but in fairness to him he created many scoring chances - including Gearoid's goal - from that movement. I think O'Shea may have given him that permission. I felt the ref called the Paudie incident perfectly as his hand was played. You could say it cancelled out Tom Condon's hurl-butt to Niall O'Mearas face too as he was running at goal waiting for a pass at one stage. Nothing done by ref there, should havd been a booking & maybe a penalty. Thought Paudie did quite well at full back.

I watched the game again & the Tipp forwards just tried to score too many goals instead of tapping over a few easier points.

The players deserve your gratitude, they can't be questioned on intent & fight, just some poor decision making in the end.

Tbf you're well off the mark with the last paragraph. Our backs were under huge pressure from the lk forwards. Having b maher as an extra man saved them, but by playing him in front of Paudie we left huge space in front of him which the midfielders were unwilling or unable to cover.

Compare that to the 'pressure' that callinan and co put on Lk's backs. After a few strides they gave up allowing the backs to clear.

I'd agree with you on the going for goals. Tbf like the penalty in rugby, do you kick for 3 or kick to touch and go for 7. If the goals went in like they did against Waterford in 2011 you're a genius whereas when they don't do in the tactic is dismissed. I know hindsight is great but you'd think it'd be prudent to take the easy points when the chance arose.

Was surprised at the lack of discussion re the butt o meara took to the head. 'Twas right in front of the umpires:rolleyes:

Re the disallowed goal, nearly every score could be disallowed given that hurling is a contact sport and it's getting more physical every season.

From a purist/neutral point of view I'd love to be looking at the likes of noël, lar and seamie playing the game like its meant to be played. Unfortunately the game is favouring the more physical type of player. Adapt or die I suppose.

Like most of us I think we're in severe trouble. When the dust settles, we have to accept lk aren't great and won't go too far. Maybe a good draw will allow eos to give a few other lads a run and build a bit of confidence. However, it's hard to see us front up to Kilkenny, Clare, cork, Dublin and probably Galway.

digzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Whatever about being brought back in at this stage i dunno but id argue that Pa offered more then some of the lads on the panel up to and including recent times.

I mean Shane Bourke for example offers very little. Pa would at least do as much and more when you factor in that he can take frees he can actually do more. That's the rationale I'm using.

Then compare him to some of the others who were brought in such as Paddy Murphy, or Mikey Heffernan there is no doubt that Pa offers a bit more. Im not saying to necessarily bring in Pa but if he is going to be dropped then at least bring in better quality.

Yeah fair enough. I just felt that with a guy like pa are you really getting someone all that different to the lads already there. Have to agree that the lads mentioned don't offer more than him. Was disappointed with Shane bourke when he came on.

For all the moaning we're doing we could easily have won the game with a bit of composure in front of the target. There were a few occasions where we'd a free fwd but our man in possession lacked the composure to find him. Our backs were brutal for the second goal. I think one of them could have taken a hit for the team and took a black card like seamus grogan took against Clare in the league final when we were hanging on.

digzy

Know it's been said already, but fair play to the footballers.we could've won by more and even missed a peno.

Unfortunately, the best we can hope for is keeping the score down against cork, and hope for a good draw in the qualifiers. It's great to see lads like Sweeney and quinlivan coming through and taking the pressure off Barry grogan.

realdanbreen

Deleted User wrote: »

I asked you a question and i still haven't got an answer. What happens if Eamon O'Shea gets sacked?

Well I happen to think that we are guilty of burying our heads in the sand with regard to the Tipp senior team at present. Getting rid of EOS would be a drastic decision(and would be harsh as ultimately poor performances on the field of play are mainly down to the players) at this time but I think it is time for a drastic decision.The world of Tipp hurling would not come to an end if he went and it would send a clear signal that what we have witnessed from our senior team going back do the embarrassing hammering in the all ireland semi final against Kilkenny is not acceptable.

Xenophile

In relation to the suggested teams listed above, I agree that Seamus Callinan and Noel McGrath are not good enough to be listed in a starting line up.

It would be interesting to see if they would try harder if they were introduced with half way into the second half.

Xenophile

Deleted User wrote: »

I asked you a question and i still haven't got an answer. What happens if Eamon O'Shea gets sacked?

Eamonn O'Shea will not be sacked. My own feeling is that he has learned enough about the team to have a good qualifier and go on to have a much better season.

You will never have to sack O'Shea, he is a man of integrity and if he has another bad result he will resign in front of the cameras on the field immediately after the game.

glued

There is absolutely no way that Eamon O'Shea should be sacked. Let's review his body of work after the Championship is done. There is lots of hurling left in this panel but we need to start hitting the ground running. I think we somehow managed to underestimate Limerick again. Poor tactics and I think we often tried to be too clever.

realdanbreen

glued wrote: »

I think we somehow managed to underestimate Limerick again. Poor tactics and I think we often tried to be too clever.

There's 3 good reasons for giving him the road!

evolving tipperary

There are players who deserve the road more - too easy to blame the manager - an obvious target - i don't agree with everything he has done - it would be senseless to 'sack' him now...how do you sack an amateur?

Mantis Toboggan

evolving tipperary wrote: »

There are players who deserve the road more - too easy to blame the manager - an obvious target - i don't agree with everything he has done - it would be senseless to 'sack' him now...how do you sack an amateur?

But it's the manager who picks the players and is ultimately responsible at the end of the day. He has repeatedly picked players who have constantly under performed. He needs to be more ruthless. Do you think that Cody would still be looking at the likes of Shane mcGrath or Shane Bourke or keeping Noel McGrath on the field for as long as he did if he was tipp manager. He is also guilty of showing too much loyalty to the older players.

No point in sacking him now but if we don't atleast reach the semi final this year then I think we need to freshen it up for next season. As much as it pains me to say it I think it's time for a manager from outside the county as it gets rid of club and player bias which seems to be prevalent within the county.

realdanbreen

Xenophile wrote: »

You will never have to sack O'Shea, he is a man of integrity and if he has another bad result he will resign in front of the cameras on the field immediately after the game.

Its not a question of his integrity its simply that we have gone from bad to worse since he took charge. Someone else posted that we underestimated Limerick, FFS! thats a big part of our problem. EOS is presiding over a team who think they are better than Limerick, waterford etc. No unless something drastic is done we are facing into yet another year of failure.

evolving tipperary

You cannot compare the squad selection that Cody has to O'Shea's squad - Cody has an embarrassment of riches for a long time

you need balance - you cannot suddenly have 7 young players drafted into the senior inter-county team without disastrous consequences

realdanbreen

evolving tipperary wrote: »

You cannot compare the squad selection that Cody has to O'Shea's squad - Cody has an embarrassment of riches for a long time

you need balance - you cannot suddenly have 7 young players drafted into the senior inter-county team without disastrous consequences

Rubbish! KK do not have an embarressment of riches. What they have is a manager who will not coutenance playing a player unless he gives it 100%
The players know that if they fall short then they are out and its a long way back for them.

evolving tipperary

Yeah - you're right. That's how it works....players don't give one hundred percent...yeah...

It's not a case of actual quality of Cody or the players...one the greatest set of players to play the game...

nor is it a case of tactics for Tipp....no it's about players either giving or not giving one hundred percent...i'm sure noelie went on the field and said to himself - do you know what....i'll give 80% today - it's an 80% day today....

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130325205932/degrassi/images/d/d9/Thumbsup-alec.gif

Comordha

I think EOS does need to become a little more decisive during the heat of battle. There is not much point in bringing a lad on with 8 minutes to go and expecting him to close a game out for you. Subs should probably have been made earlier the last day, perhaps even at half time. I would not have taken Bubbles off either as he was contributing scores.

I also think the sideline strategy needs to be looked at, 3 shots were taken and went wide from sideline cuts. Other teams are more clever with their sideline use and play a one-two and over.

It is interesting how this team used to have some of the best forwards in the country but now you would say that the backline is far better than the forward line at getting their own job done. Cathal Barrett is a great find, I wonder could he be nurtured into a midfielder over time? His ball distribution is so much better than some of the other backs who still hit high and hope just to clear their lines. Mickey Cahill's interception on Dowling when he was through on goal proves how important he is to the backline. He gelled very well with Paudie Maher and bailed him out a few times. I wonder would that second goal have been scored had he been on the pitch still??????

Comordha

"Tom Condon also faces an anxious wait after his entanglement with Niall O’Meara in the second half as well, an interaction that may be revisited in the next couple of days."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2014/0602/ireland/treatyrsquos-triumph-over-adversity-270695.html

I hope this is looked into, there was clearly a hurl-butt to the face and you could see the lump on poor Niall's face afterward.

realdanbreen

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Yeah - you're right. That's how it works....players don't give one hundred percent...yeah...

It's not a case of actual quality of Cody or the players...one the greatest set of players to play the game...

nor is it a case of tactics for Tipp....no it's about players either giving or not giving one hundred percent...i'm sure noelie went on the field and said to himself - do you know what....i'll give 80% today - it's an 80% day today....

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130325205932/degrassi/images/d/d9/Thumbsup-alec.gif

So as far as you're concerned leave things as they are, it will be all right on the night so to speak.Do you reckon that if 'Noelie' is left there long enough he will suddenly ignite?

evolving tipperary

Not really, no- I think if you've read any of my posts - they suggest a lot of things i'd change

I did pick a team and I don't think Noelie or Callinan made it... (That said I think Noelie can be as good as anyone at times - but that performance warranted a half time withdrawal)

So I never said leave things as they are...I'm sure O'Shea won't be either. But sure firing O'Shea will solve it all!

Mantis Toboggan

Seems to be a **** storm brewing on Twitter over the antics of the players on Sunday night and Monday.

I'm all for players going for a drink and relaxing every now and again but I suppose when the team are showing less hunger to win than the opposition it's used as a stick to beat them with.

evolving tipperary

Yeah I saw a lot of pics of players looking hammered in Lars on facebook - what can you do - they're amateurs...their choice

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

Well I happen to think that we are guilty of burying our heads in the sand with regard to the Tipp senior team at present. Getting rid of EOS would be a drastic decision(and would be harsh as ultimately poor performances on the field of play are mainly down to the players) at this time but I think it is time for a drastic decision.The world of Tipp hurling would not come to an end if he went and it would send a clear signal that what we have witnessed from our senior team going back do the embarrassing hammering in the all ireland semi final against Kilkenny is not acceptable.

And what after sacking him? Who takes over? The problem could be just as easily bottom up as top down.

evolving tipperary

Was Callinan one of the chest infections during the lead up to the game - O'Shea said there was four?

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Was Callinan one of the chest infections during the lead up to the game - O'Shea said there was four?

At this stage its hard to know what to believe. We just have to accept that the performance was sub standard.

evolving tipperary

I'm just trying to understand why he was standing with his hands on hips - near the end of the game - as his opposite number ran away to collect ball and cleared - he looked very tired

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I'm just trying to understand why he was standing with his hands on hips - near the end of the game - as his opposite number ran away to collect ball and cleared - he looked very tired

He had the hands on the hips for alot of the game. Could be something in it but people wont give Callanan the benefit of the doubt due to his past record. He wasnt our worst player not that its anything to be proud of.
Id believe for example if Bergin was suffering from illness because he is normally alot more effective.

evolving tipperary

Joe Dooley agrees with me re Conor O'Mahony -

Tipperary receive major set-back
Tipperary’s defeat last Sunday to Limerick was a major set-back to their ambitions for 2014. This narrow defeat on the back of losing the league final narrowly to Kilkenny has to be a big blow to morale within the camp.
"Sometimes you are better off keeping your powder dry when it comes to revealing your aims for the year"
A win last Sunday guaranteed a shot at winning a Munster Championship medal and one game away from an All-Ireland semi-final or at worst a quarter-final appearance.
Tipp did not hide the fact all year that this game was their primary target to win. Sometimes you are better off keeping your powder dry when it comes to revealing your aims for the year.
I am sure Eamon O’Shea and the team will regroup in a few days and knuckle down to take on who ever they are drawn against in the qualifiers. They can still have a big say in the championship.
They need to reposition Brendan Maher into midfield where his reading of the game and ability to pick off scores would add more value to the team than playing him in a holding role at centre-back.
Conor O’Mahony, who struggled a little for pace on the wing, would be more comfortable in the centre. A few minor adjustments and a much more ruthless approach up front from key players is a must if they are to bounce back this year.

evolving tipperary

Kilkenny (SH v Offaly): E Murphy; P Murphy, JJ Delaney, B Kennedy; P Walsh, J Tyrrell, C Buckley; L Ryan, R Hogan; W Walsh, M Fennelly, TJ Reid; C Fennelly, M Kelly, E Larkin.
Substitutes: D Herity, B Hogan, K Joyce, M Walsh, J Holden, T Keogh, T Walsh, A Fogarty, J Farrell, J Brennan.

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Kilkenny (SH v Offaly): E Murphy; P Murphy, JJ Delaney, B Kennedy; P Walsh, J Tyrrell, C Buckley; L Ryan, R Hogan; W Walsh, M Fennelly, TJ Reid; C Fennelly, M Kelly, E Larkin.
Substitutes: D Herity, B Hogan, K Joyce, M Walsh, J Holden, T Keogh, T Walsh, A Fogarty, J Farrell, J Brennan.

Good hardworking team but not a team that should scare the life out of anything like of old. Bit like the current Limerick team. Still think they should beat Offaly handy but you'd never know.

Paarthurnax

Comordha wrote: »

"Tom Condon also faces an anxious wait after his entanglement with Niall O’Meara in the second half as well, an interaction that may be revisited in the next couple of days."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2014/0602/ireland/treatyrsquos-triumph-over-adversity-270695.html

I hope this is looked into, there was clearly a hurl-butt to the face and you could see the lump on poor Niall's face afterward.

Nasty stuff, crucial stage of the game too. Slap with the flat of the hurl is something but drawing across your man (who has just stepped passed you inside the 21) with the point of the hurl is deliberate. Umpires oblivious as normal.

Comordha

Surprised Tipp county board have not made a complaint.