The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

Comordha

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/liam-sheedy-insists-tipp-will-bounce-back-as-he-plays-down-drinking-rumours-30333519.html

buggy beag

Just like to know What everybody thinks about the drinking culture that seems to have been following the team the last few years.I know there's good arguments on both sides like their amatuers And should be allowed to have a drink after a game And on the other side that maybe after a loss like that they should maybe have showed a bit more respect to the supporters just wondering What everyone else thinks about it?do other counties have the same problems?

GerB40

buggy beag wrote: »

Just like to know What everybody thinks about the drinking culture that seems to have been following the team the last few years.I know there's good arguments on both sides like their amatuers And should be allowed to have a drink after a game And on the other side that maybe after a loss like that they should maybe have showed a bit more respect to the supporters just wondering What everyone else thinks about it?do other counties have the same problems?

It really sickens me.. A few pints and a bit of craic isn't too bad (if EOS was the diciplinarian people said he was even that would be too much) but making apes of themselves after being humiliated on the pitch is just wrong. There's serious discipline problems among some of the panel, we need look no further than the results from the last two years to see this.

Ultimately it comes down to the boss man. Eamon needs to start crackin the whip big time, get the names of the lads who were out on the lash and resign them to the bench. Personally I'd be okay with another year or two 'in the wilderness' if we came back with a team both physically and mentally stronger.

buggy beag

GerB40 wrote: »

It really sickens me.. A few pints and a bit of craic isn't too bad (if EOS was the diciplinarian people said he was even that would be too much) but making apes of themselves after being humiliated on the pitch is just wrong. There's serious discipline problems among some of the panel, we need look no further than the results from the last two years to see this.

Ultimately it comes down to the boss man. Eamon needs to start crackin the whip big time, get the names of the lads who were out on the lash and resign them to the bench. Personally I'd be okay with another year or two 'in the wilderness' if we came back with a team both physically and mentally stronger.

Ya i pretty much agree with you.in this day And age with more media coverage And the social network scene it just doesn't seem to sit right especially just down the road from Where Not many players left everything they had on the pitch.i know there's country miles in the difference but when i played junior soccer for years after any defeat no.matter How big or small i didn't drink because i wouldhave been to depressed plus i gave everything i had out on the field my body wouldn't have been able for drinking anyway but maybe that's just me And my old body haha if a manager was to Go.into a dressing room at the start of the year And said no drinking til the,seasons over How would this Go down? I know Not all the players were at it so could this cause friction within the squad? Certainly did when i was playing soccer anyway so id imagine it would be the same?

digzy

I guess in these islands a 'few drinks' range from 3 to 23!Just looking at a pro sport like soccer, the irish/British lads seem to be partial to a few alcoholic beverages within certain windows. Remember the pic of Rooney pissing with a bottle of beer and smoking. The rugby lads by anecdotal accounts were well able to put away a few during the season. I saw The munster lads on the sauce after a few h cup games in limerick along with some of the opposition. Even reading an interview gronkowski of the ne patriots gave showed the alcohol he was putting away. And these are professionals!

It makes me laugh when I hear of local clubs banning their players from alcohol. It's ridiculous! They're amateurs, I don't see what harm the odd blow out would do once it's not too close to a game. A pro owes it to their organisation to keep off anything that could affect performances.

Regarding our boyos, if we'd won the fans would be drinking with them. The margin wasn't huge between victory and defeat. There's worse things they could be doing behind closed doors to be fair.

I'd agree with the poster who said he wouldn't be in the form for it after a loss. I'd be the same. I suppose while we'd rather they didn't do it, we've to accept they're young lads doing what young lads do. We'd wanna be naive thinking it doesn't go on. The kk lads are regularly to be met in langtons- though I've never seen them off their faces. I've met loads of limerick fans complaining about the drink culture involved there. I'd wager they had a fair auld knees up after that win, I didn't hear anyone moaning about it then!I did it myself a decade ago but I wouldn't do it now if you paid me. I'm not on twitter, haven't a clue who were out but I'd guess the lads who were boozing the most were the younger lads. I'd be fairly shocked if lads like Kelly, Corbett and the older crew were at it.

digzy

digzy wrote: »

I guess in these islands a 'few drinks' range from 3 to 23!Just looking at a pro sport like soccer, the irish/British lads seem to be partial to a few alcoholic beverages within certain windows. Remember the pic of Rooney pissing with a bottle of beer and smoking. The rugby lads by anecdotal accounts were well able to put away a few during the season. I saw The munster lads on the sauce after a few h cup games in limerick along with some of the opposition. Even reading an interview gronkowski of the ne patriots gave showed the alcohol he was putting away. And these are professionals!

It makes me laugh when I hear of local clubs banning their players from alcohol. It's ridiculous! They're amateurs, I don't see what harm the odd blow out would do once it's not too close to a game. A pro owes it to their organisation to keep off anything that could affect performances.

Regarding our boyos, if we'd won the fans would be drinking with them. The margin wasn't huge between victory and defeat. There's worse things they could be doing behind closed doors to be fair.

I'd agree with the poster who said he wouldn't be in the form for it after a loss. I'd be the same. I suppose while we'd rather they didn't do it, we've to accept they're young lads doing what young lads do. We'd wanna be naive thinking it doesn't go on. The kk lads are regularly to be met in langtons- though I've never seen them off their faces. I've met loads of limerick fans complaining about the drink culture involved there. I'd wager they had a fair auld knees up after that win, I didn't hear anyone moaning about it then!I did it myself a decade ago but I wouldn't do it now if you paid me. I'm not on twitter, haven't a clue who were out but I'd guess the lads who were boozing the most were the younger lads. I'd be fairly shocked if lads like Kelly, Corbett and the older crew were at it.

A fair point too Digzy.

I dont mind the lads getting pissed that night to be honest if they are back in training fresh on Tuesday night and raring to go and haven't vandalised or caused offense to anyone the previous Sunday. I had actually heard before that after our defeat back in 2010 that the team went out in Cork and a certain young player at the time received a slagging from a few Cork hooligans and ended up dropping 4 of them on their arse.

Its all about keeping to limits.

Can anyone link Noel Dundons article from this week? I believe he let rip at the team. Westside didnt mince his words either

https://tipperary.gaa.ie/westside-column-june-7th-2014/

Westside column – June 7th 2014

I’m afraid there’s no way to sugar-coat this: we choked yet again.

In golf they talk about the chokers, the guys who should have won a lot more, put themselves in the position to do so, but then somehow froze at the crunch. Greg Norman had a reputation in this regard, whether deserved or not is debatable.
Unfortunately the present Tipperary hurling generation is in danger of becoming the Greg Norman of the sport. In the league final and again on Sunday we put ourselves into a winning position but on each occasion failed to close out the deal.
It’s frustrating and must leave Eamon O’Shea agonising over what ingredient is missing when we keep blowing winnable games.

Since the start of the season O’Shea singled out this match as his central focus. It was the gateway-game that led into a summer of glamorous activity including a Munster final and, at worst, an All Ireland quarter-final. Getting it right then was essential and we had the added benefit of last year’s experience to leave us forewarned and, hopefully, forearmed.
Yet one had an uneasy feeling from the start on Sunday that we were not exactly in the groove. Despite knowing in advance what Limerick would bring to the occasion there was a casualness in our approach that somehow didn’t fit with the demands of the day.
Paudie Maher will be hard on himself over the first goal. What should have been a routine catch was spilled and the follow up brought the foul which Dowling penalised. Yet despite that setback and while playing below form we were still level at the break. ‘Bonner’s goal was the main item in our recovery. He wormed his way towards goal and somehow managed to swing the stick despite the smothering presence of defenders.
People were still resuming their seats for the restart when we hit the front with our second goal. Kieran Bergin was the creator and Gearoid Ryan the finisher. Maybe this would be the spark for Tipperary to kick on, up the intensity and bully their way to a Munster final.
Not a bit of it. Instead Limerick were the ones to find the response. Agonisingly we were in a seemingly winning position several times during that second half but on each occasion we allowed Limerick back.
Oh the agony of the might-have-beens! ‘Bonner’ races through and has Callanan free on his right but doesn’t see him and runs into a cul de sac. Corbett fresh-airs the break and Limerick swing downfield for a rallying point. Another run by ‘Bonner’ might have opened the defence but this time he passes too quickly to Callanan and a point results. Our option taking is letting us down though ‘Bonner’ remains our constant threat.
Against that, however, Limerick too had their moments of regret. The disallowed goal was simply a bad call by the referee and would have been a very hot topic if the result went against Limerick. They delivered their quota of aimless wides too so these must be balanced against our regrets at the other end.
In the event it all came down to one of those toss-up finishes where anything could happen. Dowling’s second goal set up the late dramatics. Over-eagerness by our defenders let the ball break for Kevin Downes. The full forward cut through the defence before laying off to Dowling who turned back onto his favoured left side and somehow found the rigging through a crowded goal area.
A nail-biting finish then and it’s here we coughed up the winning scores. Tomas Ryan latched onto a break for the lead point and Seamus Hickey closed it out with the final flag. Tipp were left bemoaning those soft lobs into Nicky Quaid’s paw as well as a sequence of bad wides. In a game of inches every miss counted.

There’s no point in glossing this outcome for anything but the shattering defeat that it was. It steers us into the minefield of the qualifiers where we depend on a lottery to decide our opponents and where we play them. How different things might have been.
Our defence emerges from the experience reasonably well. Some have criticised Brendan Maher for the latitude enjoyed by Donal O’Grady on two rallying second half points but surely the centre back was playing according to instructions by sitting deep and it was the job of midfield or half forwards to track back and pick up the attacker. Having our centre back play that sweeper role was needed because of the goals we were leaking in the league but such a ploy requires an outfield player to track the loose man. Clare have perfected this method; we clearly haven’t.
Otherwise the defence looked secure: Barrett again excellent, Barry doing well on the wing, Paudie Maher coming into his own in the second half and Mickey Cahill being sorely missed during those final climactic moments. Could Gleeson have done better on the goals? Maybe, but they would have been top of the range saves.
Midfield, however, was a problem area throughout the game. It was here that James Ryan ruled supreme, involved in so much of the action and contributing hugely to the outcome. Woodlock’s loss was major on a day when his high-energy athleticism would have been invaluable. This is a zone the management will have to revisit ahead of the qualifiers.
The attack too had its difficulties. Here ‘Bonner’ was the star of the show but ultimately this area promised more than it delivered. Gearoid Ryan’s work rate was huge; if others had copied we’d now be looking ahead to a Munster final. John O’Dwyer chipped in with four points from play and Niall O’Meara had individual items of merit for a debutant though I felt he could have been withdrawn sooner after taking an off-the-ball blow to the head, an incident that seemed to escape everybody’s attention.
I was disappointed with Noel McGrath’s input. We were back to the odd little cameo here and there but nothing of sustained impact; a bad wide in each of the halves were other negatives on his account.
Seamus Callanan delivered a few scores from play and was involved in a few others though most pundits gave Richie McCarthy the clear edge in that battle. Frustratingly Callanan was either blocked or hooked five times by my count, and I may have missed one or two. That’s unacceptable at this level. One little cameo late in the game illustrates the point. Callanan won possession ahead of McCarthy and got a step on him as the defender stumbled. But instead of heading in for goal Callanan stood flat-footed and wound up for a big strike. It gave enough time for McCarthy to get in a hook and the danger was cleared.
Of the substitutes Denis Maher did best. He scored a point and might have been the hero if a few other efforts found the range. As regards the management there was puzzlement over the withdrawals of James Barry and John O’Dwyer as well as the tardiness in addressing the midfield issue.

On the refereeing front we got a major break on that disallowed goal but on the minus side a lot of soft frees kept Shane Dowling busy in the first half especially; a wrong Limerick defender was booked for a foul on ‘Bonner’; the Niall O’Meara incident was missed by all officials; and the booking of Kieran Bergin was ridiculous. Yet Ger Loughnane reckons he was excellent. Indeed.
So, we head into the qualifiers. On the issue of golfing chokers Tom Watson argues that at least the chokers get into a position to choke. It’s a slightly positive note to finish on.

evolving tipperary

Kilkenny show how its done yet again. 15 points up after 30 and takes off the corner back. Ruthless.

All the wishful thinking and hoping going on - on this thread - a while back, that Kilkenny were finished....they haven't gone away you know...

It's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong summer....

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Kilkenny show how its done yet again. 15 points up after 30 and takes off the corner back. Ruthless.

All the wishful thinking and hoping going on - on this thread - a while back, that Kilkenny were finished....they haven't gone away you know...

It's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong summer....

Kilkenny havent gone away but other counties have caught up with them. We're not that far off them to be honest if we knuckled down and put our mind to it. Thats what makes the result the last week all the more galling.

evolving tipperary

Not that far off them? Where 's the evidence for that? We can't still take that league final seriously?

digzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Kilkenny havent gone away but other counties have caught up with them. We're not that far off them to be honest if we knuckled down and put our mind to it. Thats what makes the result the last week all the more galling.

Jesus , I couldn't agree with that. Kk always front up for most games league or championship. We do so for about half our games. Even if we 'show up' for a game with them they're still about 10 points better than us. I felt we played well in the league final whereas I thought there was more in them. If I was a kk supporter I'd be wary of Clare and Dublin. Cork on a good day might challenge them. I wouldn't fear Galway Tipp or limerick.

Ps I hope to god I'm wrong cos I hate loosing to the fcukers, though I'd be surprised if we make that far this year.

uggybear

Any Tipp intercounty football games coming up live over the summer on tv?

The Lost Sheep

uggybear wrote: »

Any Tipp intercounty football games coming up live over the summer on tv?

Unlikely as don't think semi final v Cork in 2 weeks time will be shown live and doubt any qualifier game we'll play will be shown but that'll depend on the draw..

uggybear

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Unlikely as don't think semi final v Cork in 2 weeks time will be shown live and doubt any qualifier game we'll play will be shown but that'll depend on the draw..

Thanks for that, pity as we've just been promoted to division 3 so was hoping to see more live games

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Not that far off them? Where 's the evidence for that? We can't still take that league final seriously?

digzy wrote: »

Jesus , I couldn't agree with that. Kk always front up for most games league or championship. We do so for about half our games. Even if we 'show up' for a game with them they're still about 10 points better than us. I felt we played well in the league final whereas I thought there was more in them. If I was a kk supporter I'd be wary of Clare and Dublin. Cork on a good day might challenge them. I wouldn't fear Galway Tipp or limerick.

Ps I hope to god I'm wrong cos I hate loosing to the fcukers, though I'd be surprised if we make that far this year.

We only lost by a goal to Kilkenny last year. I honestly dont think we're too far off them tbh. But as suggested it all depends on attitude and application

buggy beag

in championship there is a big big difference between limerick and offaly and id hope that if we drew offaly we would beat them handy enough as well

robbiezero

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Not that far off them? Where 's the evidence for that? We can't still take that league final seriously?

Why not?

I would us that game far more as evidence than that farce of a game Saturday night.

robbiezero

buggy beag wrote: »

in championship there is a big big difference between limerick and offaly and id hope that if we drew offaly we would beat them handy enough as well

I would expect a few of the club teams in Tipp to be able to beat Offaly.

evolving tipperary

I'm talking about the application and ruthlessness - Tipp haven't really shown that since the Munster Final win over Waterford when they scored 7-19...
5-32 KK scored....5-32.....5-32...that's some achievement. No matter who it is against...we'll see what tipp do if they draw Offaly...

Limerick will get beaten in the Munster final whether it's Clare or Cork. Heart and attitude is great but it'll only get you so far.

Last year - what about the years previous to that...Kilkenny had lost their verve last year - had a rest now - looking mean - we were desperate to beat them - DESPERATE - couldn't even manage it in a league final...at home...DESPERATE to win it....

You could see it on O'Shea's face...he was broken and startled....we can't even win a league final when we bring our championship intensity...not good lads, not good...

The game against Offaly was a farce because Kilkenny made it into afarce - Offaly got too close for comfort last year - and kilkenny slaughtered them this year - the ability to put the pedal to the metal when its required - set a goal and carry it through....Kilkenny have been doing for a decade now

OAOB

As far as I'm concerned we have a really bad habit of performing to the perceived abilities of the other team.
Limerick were expected to be poor so we didn't perform. We knew kk would be a massive challenge in the league final so we raised our game.
We've been like this for a while now

buggy beag

I do agree wit an earlier poster that even when we seem to play at the peak of our powers we still can't beat them no matter How poor they are or Who there missing

evolving tipperary

That's a fair point but it still results in defeat

evolving tipperary

That's fair enough. But the evidence dictates otherwise...I'm just trying to be real about it. The tide is massively on the side of KK - there's a dam that needs bursting...

buggy beag

Ya i no that's What i meant.tipp,dublin,galway an cork have all showed How You beat them You hustle And harry them,work work work and don't give them a mins peace all game from start to FINISH And take you're chances but Unfortuneately them teams only seem to be able to produce one off performances to that standard whereas in kk that standard is the norm

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I'm talking about the application and ruthlessness - Tipp haven't really shown that since the Munster Final win over Waterford when they scored 7-19...
5-32 KK scored....5-32.....5-32...that's some achievement. No matter who it is against...we'll see what tipp do if they draw Offaly...

Limerick will get beaten in the Munster final whether it's Clare or Cork. Heart and attitude is great but it'll only get you so far.

Last year - what about the years previous to that...Kilkenny had lost their verve last year - had a rest now - looking mean - we were desperate to beat them - DESPERATE - couldn't even manage it in a league final...at home...DESPERATE to win it....

You could see it on O'Shea's face...he was broken and startled....we can't even win a league final when we bring our championship intensity...not good lads, not good...

The game against Offaly was a farce because Kilkenny made it into afarce - Offaly got too close for comfort last year - and kilkenny slaughtered them this year - the ability to put the pedal to the metal when its required - set a goal and carry it through....Kilkenny have been doing for a decade now

Well to be fair now we were genuinely unlucky in that league final and i honestly believe there was still another 10% in us that day.

The first penalty should no way in hell have been given. We also have to cut out the school boy errors and be more aware. Simple little things like marking up as well as harrying and harassing the opposition needs to be addressed. O'Shea is a bit too Wengeresque in his approach. Full of ideas about when we are attacking but not so great at working on the defensive side (in terms of getting our attackers to defend).

I think their is too many superlatives regarding Kilkennys performance on Saturday night. Yes KK put them to the sword where many would be happy just to do enough and i credit them for that but Offaly were absolutely woeful lets be honest now. They struggled against Kerry this year and were beaten by both Laois and Antrim for god sake.

The league final was a great performance from Tipp but it wasnt the mammoth we all think it was. There was still some more in the tank. No team goes all out in the league final. Not even Kilkenny.

Charlie69

Deleted User wrote: »

Well to be fair now we were genuinely unlucky in that league final and i honestly believe there was still another 10% in us that day.

The first penalty should no way in hell have been given. We also have to cut out the school boy errors and be more aware. Simple little things like marking up as well as harrying and harassing the opposition needs to be addressed. O'Shea is a bit too Wengeresque in his approach. Full of ideas about when we are attacking but not so great at working on the defensive side (in terms of getting our attackers to defend).

I think their is too many superlatives regarding Kilkennys performance on Saturday night. Yes KK put them to the sword where many would be happy just to do enough and i credit them for that but Offaly were absolutely woeful lets be honest now. They struggled against Kerry this year and were beaten by both Laois and Antrim for god sake.

The league final was a great performance from Tipp but it wasnt the mammoth we all think it was. There was still some more in the tank. No team goes all out in the league final. Not even Kilkenny.

If you think Kilkenny or Tipp hold anything back any time they're in opposition never mind when there's silverware at stake you're dreaming my friend

Charlie69

Charlie69 wrote: »

If you think Kilkenny or Tipp hold anything back any time they're in opposition never mind when there's silverware at stake you're dreaming my friend

Ah yeah it was an intense game ill agree as was the 2009 league final but i am still adamant that there is more in both teams. No one tries to hit peak that early. Would you agree?

buggy beag

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah yeah it was an intense game ill agree as was the 2009 league final but i am still adamant that there is more in both teams. No one tries to hit peak that early. Would you agree?

I could never understand this peaking thing.do teams Not Go out And try to win every game they play in And play to the best of their ability or is their games Where players And management say don't give it yer all today because we don't want to peak to early?doesn't success breed confidence an vice vearsa

robbiezero

buggy beag wrote: »

I could never understand this peaking thing.do teams Not Go out And try to win every game they play in And play to the best of their ability or is their games Where players And management say don't give it yer all today because we don't want to peak to early?doesn't success breed confidence an vice vearsa

Ah I don't think its anything like that. More so a physical thing. I know very little about physical training and conditioning, but I imagine they would be trained to peak for the championship and could be still doing reasonably hard training during the league whereas this would be tapered off in the lead up to a championship game.

Some lads with more experience of the physical conditioning side of things might elaborate a bit more.

buggy beag

robbiezero wrote: »

Ah I don't think its anything like that. More so a physical thing. I know very little about physical training and conditioning, but I imagine they would be trained to peak for the championship and could be still doing reasonably hard training during the league whereas this would be tapered off in the lead up to a championship game.

Some lads with more experience of the physical conditioning side of things might elaborate a bit more.

Ah right i get ya,ya that makes sense if its meant in that way.