The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

evolving tipperary

It's as much psychological as it is physical - players and teams set targets. All year O'Shea highlighted the Limerick. After the game Limerick said the same thing - the first round game was the target all year - you prepare mentally and physically for that. That's why the physicality and commitment was at much higher level in championship. Amateurs could not possibly give that commitment in the league and championship -

it's the same in rugby - you have the league and then you have the Heineken cup - performance levels in the Heineken is much higher as players and coaches want to win it more -

If there was ten per cent more in tipp in the league final where was it against Limerick?

Do people feel we were beaten by a one off performance by limerick?

robbiezero

evolving tipperary wrote: »

It's as much psychological as it is physical - players and teams set targets. All year O'Shea highlighted the Limerick. After the game Limerick said the same thing - the first round game was the target all year - you prepare mentally and physically for that. That's why the physicality and commitment was at much higher level in championship. Amateurs could not possibly give that commitment in the league and championship -

it's the same in rugby - you have the league and then you have the Heineken cup - performance levels in the Heineken is much higher as players and coaches want to win it more -

If there was ten per cent more in tipp in the league final where was it against Limerick?

Do people feel we were beaten by a one off performance by limerick?

I don't think it was a one-off performance by Limerick. They are a very good side and will take serious beating in the Munster final.

buggy beag

robbiezero wrote: »

I don't think it was a one-off performance by Limerick. They are a very good side and will take serious beating in the Munster final.

Ya hate when managers talk about targets any managers stance at the start of the year should be that were going to win all before us Not saying i don't care about this or that game because were focusing on this game.limerick were well up for it And deserved the win

buggy beag

buggy beag wrote: »

I could never understand this peaking thing.do teams Not Go out And try to win every game they play in And play to the best of their ability or is their games Where players And management say don't give it yer all today because we don't want to peak to early?doesn't success breed confidence an vice vearsa

I understand your point. I do think though that teams hold that little bit in reserve. You don't want players crippled with injuries and through the wars either so there is the element of prioritising too.

The league final was a cracker dont get me wrong. But im convinced there is more in both teams.

Paddico

Does anyone give the footballers any chance against Cork?
I think they will be there or there abouts with 15 mins to go which might be nice to see.

buggy beag

Paddico wrote: »

Does anyone give the footballers any chance against Cork?
I think they will be there or there abouts with 15 mins to go which might be nice to see.

Creedon said there a 10 to 12 point better team hes probaly right is he?that probaly won't be the difference at the end but he was probaly on about the overall bigger picture.

Charlie69

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah yeah it was an intense game ill agree as was the 2009 league final but i am still adamant that there is more in both teams. No one tries to hit peak that early. Would you agree?

Prob not at their peak in early May but certainly neither team held anything back on the day in a game that could have gone either way tbf.

I also believe that B Cody wants 100% from his team in every game, doesn't matter if its a challenge, Walsh cup, league or whatever. It's hard to argue with this strategy as it's been so successful for KK, but I do believe it has cost us a few injuries in the last few years due to mental and physical fatigue.

Agree that there's a lot more in this Tipp team and still expect them to reach the semi finals. To be honest I've been shocked at the level of under achievement from this Tipp side since 2010.

digzy

Charlie69 wrote: »

Agree that there's a lot more in this Tipp team and still expect them to reach the semi finals. To be honest I've been shocked at the level of under achievement from this Tipp side since 2010.

I agreed with you initially reading this, but did we not peak or play above ourselves in those 2 all Ireland's. There was a real intensity about the team under sheedy. I remember watching lar for years and he Was very frustrating to watch. That scuffed pull against lk summed him up. Our guys are. Great when given space but it's at a premium at the highest level. Eoin Kelly was carrying that team for years. Tbf if we can't beat a team like Limerick -accepting their endeavour- where are we going? We will probably get a handy draw in the qualifiers, get a win or 2 and twill paper over the cracks.

I'd rank us behind Kk,Clare, cork, Dublin. Close behind Galway but were still better than the rest. We were very close against lk despite being 2nd best all day so we should take them if we get another crack at them.

I'm starting to wonder are we really that good at all? I would imagine that they had every motivation to tear into lk the last day. Can we improve or is that our level? I dunno. I hope not��

digzy

buggy beag wrote: »

Creedon said there a 10 to 12 point better team hes probaly right is he?that probaly won't be the difference at the end but he was probaly on about the overall bigger picture.

Jesus, I'm surprised he said that. I was talking to one if the players from the last time they played Dublin in Crocker and he told me they went into the game with a belief they'd win! Very honest assessment by creed on. If we keep it to 10 it would be decent. I fear a pasting as cork are a 'coming' team. Lads deserve a run in qualifiers after all the hard work in the league ang against lk last time

Here is the article from Noel Dundon - stinging

http://www.tipperarystar.ie/sport/huge-reaction-to-tipperary-star-article-on-tipperary-hurling-1-6100805

Tipperary Hurling in the Dock
By Noel Dundon
Members of the Tipperary senior hurling team have come in for some very sharp criticism following their defeat at the hands of Limerick in Sunday’s Munster semi-final in Semple Stadium.
Losing the game was bad enough and resulted in supporters leaving the venue shaking their heads in disgust. But, word of a ‘drowning of sorrows’ on Sunday evening and again on Monday, in and around Thurles, has left supporters very angry and questioning where Tipperary are going.
It’s natural that players might like to let their hair down after a high octane battle, but the optics are not good, especially considering that there have been real problems in the past with the so-called ‘Monday club’. Limerick - defending Munster champions remember - had a Monday club too. They assembled early in UL to get the legs going again after the extertions of battle.
We had hoped that the players had turned a corner following a very indifferent league campaign. The League Final performance gave false hope that perhaps a summer of content may be around the corner. Those hopes are now dashed as the qualifer route awaits The Premier County. Again.
So, it’s time for Tipperary to man up, as a management team; as a squad of players; as a County Board. There is a need for change - everyone can see it. Management have hard decisions to make affecting practically every line of the team. A radical shake-up should be on the cards - they have a few weeks to get it right, and there should be casualties. There can be no more excuses now - either perform, or warm the bench. We have spent too long in Tipperary listening to soundbites such as ‘It’s all about the performance’. Well, if it is, then players need to look in the mirror and ask themselves the question - did I perform on Sunday? Did I put in an honest shift? Did I funk it?
Unfortunately, the answer to many of these questions, and more, will not be positive ones. The management team have protected the players in the past and refused to be critical of them. They rightly state that they have given their all in preparation for the big games. But, glossing over the issues cannot be tolerated any more. In doing so, the Tipperary public are being treated with contempt. Let’s call a spade, a spade. And, let’s be honest with each other here. No fudge, just honesty.
If Tipperary did not have the players to perform, there would not be the same level of anger over the way things are going - and anger it is. Callers to this newspaper have vented their fury - Tipp FM likewise. But, Tipp have the players and a bit of bravery is now required to shake-up the comfort zone.
The challenge is being thrown down to the management team and to the players. No more funking it; no more catchy soundbites; no more dishonesty on the field. Get back to basics, get doing what we do best and get this ship moving again. The experience of 2010 should help - get out the diary and see how it was done.
A root and branch analysis of each line is necessary - the subs bench too. Let’s see players with a bit of graft, a bit of spunk about them, a bit of character. Let’s see Tipperary players prepared to throw in the bones, take a tough tackle, give a hard shoulder, put up the hand and catch that ball. Spoofers need not apply.
Tipperary hurling has been reduced to being lashed on TV, lambasted in the national press and lampooned on the airwaves. That’s not good enough and it’s time to say stop. It’s time for responsibility to be taken.
It’s time to man up, or move on. See inside for more.

The nationalist didnt exactly go much easier the same week

http://www.nationalist.ie/sport/tipp-hurlers-ambushed-yet-again-1-6100644

It was difficult to argue against the notion that this Tipperary team lacks steel and backbone at the conclusion of Sunday’s Munster Senior Hurling Championship semi-final at Semple Stadium.
This latest defeat, which came at the hands of a Limerick side that displayed great spirit and passion - qualities that were painfully absent from Tipp’s performance - leaves them searching for a first championship win in two years. Since beating Waterford in the 2012 Munster Final they’ve now lost to Limerick twice and Kilkenny twice.
The match followed the template of last year’s clash at the Gaelic Grounds, when Tipp were similarly well placed at an advanced stage of the contest but failed to push on and close out the win. They were on the cusp of victory with three minutes of normal time remaining when substitute Denis Maher collected Conor O’Mahony’s clearance and scored to put them a goal clear.
However in the crucial, late stages, when the heat of the battle intensified to boiling point, Tipp didn’t have the personalities or leaders to dig them out of a hole. Before Denis Maher’s point Limerick’s Graeme Mulcahy had a goal disallowed for a foul on Padraic Maher, which seemed a questionable decision at the very least. But Limerick’s next incursion into Tipperary territory proved much more fruitful. Kevin Downes set up the chance with a searing run through the Tipp rearguard and Shane Dowling, unchallenged, turned back across goal before driving a shot to the net.
The goal meant that, with two minutes left, the sides were level for the ninth time. But from that point there was only ever going to be one winner. Tipp had their chances, with Noel McGrath dropping an effort into Limerick goalkeeper’s Nickie Quaid’s grasp before Shane Bourke and Denis Maher shot wides, as their challenge petered out in fairly feeble fashion. By contrast Limerick, roared on by their marvellous supporters, and with the momentum firmly behind them ambushed Tipp for the second successive year with late points from substitute Thomas Ryan and Seamus Hickey.
It could be the case that Tipp were still suffering a hangover from the League Final, a game in which they invested so much energy and effort only to fall short in the finish. For whatever reason their confidence seemed brittle as they faced the provincial title holders, who not only made a mockery of their 7/2 odds but shrugged off whatever (if any) upset the resignation of joint manager Donal O’Grady had caused and recorded a first Munster championship win over Tipperary in Thurles since 1973, the year of their last All-Ireland success.
It will concern Tipp that they appeared to lack self-belief all afternoon, the sense of doubt transferring itself to the stands and terraces where their supporters lost out in their vocal battle against the Limerick fans in the attendance of 24,962. The Limerick followers went wild with delight at the final whistle, with their team - whose heroes included Shane Dowling, Kevin Downes, Gavin O’Mahony, James Ryan, Richie McCarthy and Paul Browne - now preparing for a Munster Final against either Cork, Waterford or Clare on July 13. Tipperary’s task is to lift themselves for the qualifiers on June 28 or July 5 but it’s hard to see them having any say in the destiny of the McCarthy Cup.
Limerick were always going to prove awkward opponents but the Tipperary players were their own enemies too, with far too many basic errors committed from the opening exchanges. The fluency and rhythm that had flourished in their recent performances deserted Tipperary just when they needed it most. After a poor first half, when 11 of the 18 scores came from frees, Tipp could consider themselves fortunate to be level at the interval, when the scoreboard showed the teams locked at 1-8 each. The sides had traded early points before Limerick struck the first decisive blow of the afternoon when Shane Dowling sent a free high into the net in the 16th minute, with Kevin Downes registering their first score from play a minute later.
Further points were exchanged by John O’Dwyer and Shane Dowling frees before Tipp roared back into the picture in the 21st minute. Kieran Bergin was the intended target for the ball that Seamus Callanan dropped into the danger zone but instead Bonner Maher scooped it up and clipped a low effort to the net.
Limerick’s response to that setback was admirable. Shane Dowling converted two more frees and Declan Hannon restored their 4-points advantage by the 26th minute. They mightn’t have been motoring well but Tipp battled hard to draw level -if only their supporters had seen more of the same determination late in the game. John O’Dwyer accepted a pass from Noel McGrath’s sideline to score; Seamus Callanan was accurate from two frees - in between Kevin Downes gave the Tipp defence a fright with a piercing run - and Callanan completed the recovery in first half injury time with his first score from play.
Tipp got the best possible start to the second half when Gearoid Ryan, one of their better performers, rifled a low shot past Nickie Quaid within a minute and-a-half of the re-start. However at this stage, and it happened again late in the game, they found it impossible to shake off their dogged opponents. Scores from Paul Browne, Shane Dowling’s free and Donal O’Grady had Limerick level by the 8th minute of the second half, and it was nip and tuck, blow for blow from there to the finish. O’Grady’s point in particular gave Limerick a great lift, as it came directly after Bonner Maher went close at the other end, with his intended pass in Noel McGrath’s direction going astray.
Tipp missed other good opportunities too. Seamus Callanan drove a poor effort into the ground on one of the few occasions that he escaped Richie McCarthy’s shackles, while Bonner Maher held onto possession for too long after he tore a gaping hole through the Limerick rearguard, when he should have laid off a pass to either Lar Corbett or Seamus Callanan, who were both waiting in vain for the ball to arrive. Instead of a Tipp goal on that occasion, Kevin Downes pointed at the other end within seconds to give the holders another shot in the arm.
An old failing, their inability to win enough possession in attack, also returned to haunt Tipperary as the game reached the witching hour. By the end they were particularly ragged and shapeless in the forwards, midfield was being overwhelmed too as the minutes ticked away and as a consequence the defence came under increasing pressure, creaking under the strain before it finally cracked when Shane Dowling scored his second goal.
Only a handful of Tipp players, who included Cathal Barrett, Brendan Maher, Michael Cahill, John O’Dwyer, Bonner Maher and Gearoid Ryan, made a real impression. It was inconceivable that so many could have had an off day and yet, for all that, they were still in the driving seat when Denis Maher’s point put them three clear with as many minutes remaining. Then came that late collapse, as they were holed below the waterline and forced to accept a defeat that raises yet more questions about the team’s character.

Paddico

digzy wrote: »

Jesus, I'm surprised he said that. I was talking to one if the players from the last time they played Dublin in Crocker and he told me they went into the game with a belief they'd win! Very honest assessment by creed on. If we keep it to 10 it would be decent. I fear a pasting as cork are a 'coming' team. Lads deserve a run in qualifiers after all the hard work in the league ang against lk last time

I think what managers say to the media has to be taken with a pinch of salt but 10 points is a fair assessment.

Again nothing mentioned on here but has there been any challenges played or planned for the seniors before Cork?

digzy

That ref to a Monday Club sums up the whole show. Even if the lk players were only paddling about the pool on Monday -even if there was no celebration I can't imagine any trainer pushing them too hard-it shows an organisation and a discipline. Was surprised o Shea would tolerate that nonsense. Also find it baffling that players would bust a gut lifting weights and the cardio stuff for the last 9 months, yet, wouldn't have the maturity to look after their bodies after a big game:rolleyes:

Spirit of 67

Paddico wrote: »

Does anyone give the footballers any chance against Cork?
I think they will be there or there abouts with 15 mins to go which might be nice to see.

I feel we will still be there at that stage , we have the forwards to keep us in it . Tipp were way better than the 6 points winning margin against Limerick . The speed and fitness has improved so much since this time last year . We are creating so many goal chances in games but are not taking them , that is the only concern I have .

Paddico

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

I feel we will still be there at that stage , we have the forwards to keep us in it . Tipp were way better than the 6 points winning margin against Limerick . The speed and fitness has improved so much since this time last year . We are creating so many goal chances in games but are not taking them , that is the only concern I have .

It would be some slap in the face for the Munster GAA if Tipp beat Cork in this years semi.
Would really mess up their plans of a seeded draw to ensure a Cork/Kerry final

evolving tipperary

What did people think of the pace of that game today? HOw do people think Tipp would have fared against either side?

Another thing seems to be the importance of the marquee forward who takes frees - have to take every chance possible...including penos and 21s....

Is Seamie the man to do that? Personally I think bubbles game would go up another level if he was given the chance to be the main man - i'd like to see him be given all the frees...

robbiezero

evolving tipperary wrote: »

What did people think of the pace of that game today? HOw do people think Tipp would have fared against either side?

Another thing seems to be the importance of the marquee forward who takes frees - have to take every chance possible...including penos and 21s....

Is Seamie the man to do that? Personally I think bubbles game would go up another level if he was given the chance to be the main man - i'd like to see him be given all the frees...

I don't think Callinan has a hard enough shot. Bubbles might be the man.

Clare looked quite beatable today, but they were also poor in last years Munster championship so they may improve quite a bit.
Cork looked very good, especially considering Lehane and Harnedy didn't play particularly well. The footballers Cadogan, Cahalane and Walsh have added massively, with Walsh an absolute monster in the middle of the park.

buggy beag

robbiezero wrote: »

I don't think Callinan has a hard enough shot. Bubbles might be the man.

Clare looked quite beatable today, but they were also poor in last years Munster championship so they may improve quite a bit.
Cork looked very good, especially considering Lehane and Harnedy didn't play particularly well. The footballers Cadogan, Cahalane and Walsh have added massively, with Walsh an absolute monster in the middle of the park.

Are clare that good?last year they got bet in the first round of munster,wexford took them to extra time,hannon i think it was had a nightmare in the semi,needed a last gasp point to save themselves in the first final,cork defence were all over the place in the replay And they didn't have to beat tipp or kk along the way to the final the two best counties for the last few years.

buggy beag

anybody know when the draw for qualifiers is on,is it next Monday?

Paddico

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/life-in-munster-s-hurling-counties-will-always-be-tough-for-lower-profile-footballers-1.1819121

evolving tipperary

SunSportGAA @SunSportGAA · Jun 15
Challenge match finished @TipperaryGAA hurlers 2-27 @CLGLaois 2-23 #sungaa

windy shepard henderson

buggy beag wrote: »

anybody know when the draw for qualifiers is on,is it next Monday?

i assume the draw takes place next monday , they still have to wait for the losers of the galway/kilkenny game

the games are set for the 28th of june , but the losers of the galway kilkenny game will play a week later on july the 5th

the 2nd round will be played on the 12th of july

Paddico wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/life-in-munster-s-hurling-counties-will-always-be-tough-for-lower-profile-footballers-1.1819121

i dont think its as simple as hurling getting in the way of football, infairness there are only something like 28 football clubs in clare accross the county , wether or not we were any good at hurling it would still be very hard to compeate with a county like kerry and the setup they have

i am sure the same can be said for tipperary

Spirit of 67

TIPPERARY (SFC v Cork) :

P Fitzgerald (Fethard)
G Mulhair (Arravale Rovers)
P Codd (Killenaule- Captain)
C McDonald (Aherlow)
C O’Riordan (JK Brackens)
R Kiely (Arravale)
P Acheson (Moyle Rovers)
S O’Brien (Ballina)
G Hannigan (Shannon Rovers)
P Austin (Borrisokane)
I Fahey (Clonmel Commercials)
B Fox (Eire Og Annacarty)
C Sweeney (Ballyporeen)
M Quinlivan (Clonmel Commercials)
B Grogan (Aherlow)

evolving tipperary

What do you make of the team?

Xenophile

evolving tipperary wrote: »

What do you make of the team?

You can be sure that this team has plenty of bottle. I do not mean to offend anyone but the day might be coming soon when the hurlers are asked to pull on the Tipp jersey and pretend that they are the footballers.

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

What do you make of the team?

For me, Philip Quirke offers far more than Ian Fahey.

Spirit of 67

Deleted User wrote: »

For me, Philip Quirke offers far more than Ian Fahey.

Unfortunately Philip is injured and taking his time coming back , it`s an ongoing Quad problem . Speaking to someone involved with the team he hopes to be back for the League next year , but a serious talent though . Add him to Grogan , Sweeney and Austin you would have an unreal forward line . As for the team itself , it is the strongest Tipp team in years , if we are still there with 15 minutes to go anything is possible .

Spirit of 67

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

TIPPERARY (SFC v Cork) :

P Fitzgerald (Fethard)
G Mulhair (Arravale Rovers)
P Codd (Killenaule- Captain)
C McDonald (Aherlow)
C O’Riordan (JK Brackens)
R Kiely (Arravale)
P Acheson (Moyle Rovers)
S O’Brien (Ballina)
G Hannigan (Shannon Rovers)
P Austin (Borrisokane)
I Fahey (Clonmel Commercials)
B Fox (Eire Og Annacarty)
C Sweeney (Ballyporeen)
M Quinlivan (Clonmel Commercials)
B Grogan (Aherlow)

John Coghlan comes in to the side at corner-back in place of Ger Mulhair.

ReacherCreature

evolving tipperary wrote: »

What did people think of the pace of that game today? HOw do people think Tipp would have fared against either side?

We'd have struggled against Cork. They were ticking nicely, on form and confident. We seem the opposite right now. Clare would have been more manageable. I'd dread matching Tipperary up against a Cork team of that class from last week, they were very good.

glued

Great first half. If only the hurlers had half of the bottle of this football side then we'd be laughing.