The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

evolving tipperary

I'd agree with starting Cahill - i'd stick to my guns and say he should be man-marking Ritchie wherever he goes - whether that is midfield or center forward - or anywhere.

We need a plan for both Power and Hogan for the next day...

I'd wouldn't drop Gar Ryan - looking back at the game - his distribution and work-rate was good. His ball into Lar - when lar went onto hit the post - was a thing of beauty. Taking him out seriously shifts the balance of the forward line. As he has an engine, work-rate, and distribution which is vital - we don't have another player to replace him - unless you ask Micky Cahill do that job...I don't think that's Michael's game though.

But, I think Cahill has to start - I'd drop Bergin - but that would be hard on Bergin. I wouldn't stick Woodlock in a corner. - maybe, if you were to drop Gar - you could put Mickey Cahill in Bergin's position and shift Bergin into Gar Ryan's position and ask him to get up and down...- I would still maintain that we are better off starting Gar Ryan and Cahill!!!! But, how!!!

realdanbreen

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I don't if he was a disgrace! He's not Joe Brolly! But, I don't think his comments were in-keep with the general sportsmanship of yesterday. Highlighting that KK had only won 2 from 6 encounters that Kelly has reffed and that Paddy Stapleton should have been sent off was below the belt...

Brennan showed his true colours last night alright. I was delighted that the abuse that was hurled at Barry Kelly for the last 3 weeks did not intimidate him.

realdanbreen

Formosa wrote: »

So Tipp lads, what will ye do with Ml Cahill the next day?

He's just to good to leave off IMO...probably the only one who played below par yesterday for ye was Gar Ryan, will he be demoted and a bit of rejigging done?

BTW, how did Brendan Maher go, I had to watch it on telly with a baby pulling out of me & whinging, so was distracted, but I didn't notice him a whole lot? Was he a bit down on his usual high standard?

Tipp will start the same 15 again(injury permittin) Meanwhile KK have to go jigging the team again.

evolving tipperary

I'd say Padraig Walsh and Tommy will start - maybe even Henry.

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I'd agree with starting Cahill - i'd stick to my guns and say he should be man-marking Ritchie wherever he goes - whether that is midfield or center forward - or anywhere.

We need a plan for both Power and Hogan for the next day...

I'd wouldn't drop Gar Ryan - looking back at the game - his distribution and work-rate was good. His ball into Lar - when lar went onto hit the post - was a thing of beauty. Taking him out seriously shifts the balance of the forward line. As he has an engine, work-rate, and distribution which is vital - we don't have another player to replace him - unless you ask Micky Cahill do that job...I don't think that's Michael's game though.

But, I think Cahill has to start - I'd drop Bergin - but that would be hard on Bergin. I wouldn't stick Woodlock in a corner. - maybe, if you were to drop Gar - you could put Mickey Cahill in Bergin's position and shift Bergin into Gar Ryan's position and ask him to get up and down...- I would still maintain that we are better off starting Gar Ryan and Cahill!!!! But, how!!!

Yeah i think Gar had a fine game yesterday to be fair to him. Even from a forward point of view he was a real menace. You'd be hard pressed to drop anyone really. We said 1-9 was immense against Cork but tbh 1-15 were actually fantastic yesterday when you take the pressure and intensity into consideration. If i was forced to drop anyone id maybe consider Noel but then you are possibly losing 3 or 4 points. Perhaps though you could be also stopping Richie Hogan from scoring 3 more points so it could balance out. If you look for Gar to get forward more then you run the risk of leaving the back door open so to speak.

Its a dilemma and i dont actually blame the management for sticking with the 15 who beat Cork in all honesty but the one exception i will take with O'Shea yesterday is to why Denis Maher or even Shane Bourke weren't put on before Eoin Kelly. Im repeating myself at this stage but surely its obvious that fresh youthful fearless legs might have been the ticket those dying minutes. The Cats looked to be spent and ragged at that stage

ReacherCreature

Don't flame on me guys but a question. Is it a knee-jerk reaction to suspect that the Tipp hurlers are over the mental stumbling block they have faced over the years going up against Kilkenny? Like that last ten minutes, any other year we would've collapsed yet the bounce back was astonishing. It could one of two ways really, next day out the confidence could be off the charts but on the other hand it could be a once off.

On a previous post, no way would I put Woodlock in the corner. We need his work rate and punishing runs in midfield. He's wasted at corner forward. O' Shea has the luxury of time right now, for the next three weeks he can analyse where to put in Cahill.

Just on Eoin Kelly's introduction. I think it was for experience and to boost the players and crowd. I imagine Kelly would be the one guy you'd want to pop over a crucial score or it was to lift the crowd and that it did. Then again, Shane Bourke has got pace so I would rather him bearing down on goal!

evolving tipperary

If they win - the block will be unblocked.

evolving tipperary

KK fans seem to be focusing on the Kelly call for stapleton's tug on power's helmet - put yet for T.J. Reid's goal - Power kicked Stapleton which tripped him over and that ended with Reid getting possession and scoring the goal

ReacherCreature

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Don't flame on me guys but a question. Is it a knee-jerk reaction to suspect that the Tipp hurlers are over the mental stumbling block they have faced over the years going up against Kilkenny? Like that last ten minutes, any other year we would've collapsed yet the bounce back was astonishing. It could one of two ways really, next day out the confidence could be off the charts but on the other hand it could be a once off.

On a previous post, no way would I put Woodlock in the corner. We need his work rate and punishing runs in midfield. He's wasted at corner forward. O' Shea has the luxury of time right now, for the next three weeks he can analyse where to put in Cahill.

Just on Eoin Kelly's introduction. I think it was for experience and to boost the players and crowd. I imagine Kelly would be the one guy you'd want to pop over a crucial score or it was to lift the crowd and that it did. Then again, Shane Bourke has got pace so I would rather him bearing down on goal!

I dont think this mental block is as bad as people or the media make it out to be and certainly not in O'Shea's era. The most we lost to Kilkenny by either league or championship under Eamon O'Shea is 6 points back in February and also the 2013 league final.

In the 6 fixtures in both 2013 and 2014 that we have met the Cats

Feb 13 - Won by 1
May 13 - Lost league final by 2 goals
July 13 - Lost by 3 points in championship backdoor knockout

Feb 14 - Lost league game by 6 points despite being 6 up at half time.
May 14 - Lost league final by a point AET
Sept 14 - Drew All Ireland final.

I think had we kept continuity back in 2010 we would have been in a better place in 2011 but we can only wonder what might have been.

However, after the shambles that was the Lar/Tommy debacle in 2012 who would have ever thought we would experience a final like that again in the near future against the old foe?

If there was a real mental block we'd probably freeze and get a hiding. We're up against arguably the greatest and most hard working side ever to play the game and they are coached by arguably the greatest manager of all time so no matter what you bring to the table its going to be a titanic battle either way and i suppose they have the wealth of experience in getting over the line in these situations. Taking them on is like, well, to borrow a phrase from Gary Neville, Rocky fighting out in Russia.

But i think we've now landed a cut on Drago and I now honestly think its advantage Tipperary the next day out. I hope im not wrong. We'll will have got that bit more belief and could take more from that performance yesterday. Our inexperienced lads now have 1 final under their belt and have passed the test relatively well. Kilkenny wont panic to their credit but will definitely have to reconsider their tactics as will we.

As for Woodlock, i wouldnt switch him for the world. A gem of a player. People forget that this tiger broke his leg in seven places five years ago. To comeback and give the level of performances in a game like that is immense. Many had him dismissed. A wonderful servant to Tipperary hurling. Gar Ryan also deserves a mention in this regard. He had a double hip operation last year and has made a terrific comeback. I suppose we could have been harsh and premature with regards Shane Mcgrath too. It is said that mumps can finish many a sporting career.

Next day out is going to be very interesting. What can O'Shea and the management conjure up?

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

KK fans seem to be focusing on the Kelly call for stapleton's tug on power's helmet - put yet for T.J. Reid's goal - Power kicked Stapleton which tripped him over and that ended with Reid getting possession and scoring the goal

Exactly and i doubt that many from the Marble County gave out about the ref the last day either when they got away with Richie Power holding the Limerick back's hurley before Larkin got a flick to it to score the decisive goal.

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

KK fans seem to be focusing on the Kelly call for stapleton's tug on power's helmet - put yet for T.J. Reid's goal - Power kicked Stapleton which tripped him over and that ended with Reid getting possession and scoring the goal

Picture of Cathal Barrett on the Daily Mail today and his faceguard was hanging loose. Now i wonder how that happened? Saint was probably very lucky to be honest but these tussles are always 50/50 as the trip on him proved. It would be unrealistic to expect a fallible human being to spot everything in a game of that tempo. Eddie O'Connor was hoping Kelly wouldn't kill the game stone dead and that he would let it flow, well he got what he wanted. There was calls that went against both sides but overall he done the best he could.

Charlie69

digzy wrote: »

Yet you couldn't help yourself.......:rolleyes:

Good man digzy.

I actually came on here to acknowledge one of the best displays of point scoring I've seen in years from Callinan and Bubbles in particular, but for some reason you prefer to look for the negative.
Can we all not just get along?:)

realdanbreen

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I'd say Padraig Walsh and Tommy will start - maybe even Henry.

Its always good when even at this stage,all ireland replay,the oppossition can't find a settled team.

Mantis Toboggan

Lads the difference in physical size of the players had me definitely worried before the game. Was lucky enough to have a front row seat and in the parade was shocked at the differences, those kk players are big that's for sure. Even the girlfriend, who knows nothing about hurling said it looked like men against boys.

Now the weather conditions suited us as we moved faster and could move the ball quicker but if the weather deteriorates over the next 3 weeks it could turn into a battle, one which we would almost certainly lose.

According to Shane Brophy on twitter, all shc games scheduled for this weekend are postponed

evolving tipperary

Involving senior panelists

realdanbreen

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Lads the difference in physical size of the players had me definitely worried before the game. Was lucky enough to have a front row seat and in the parade was shocked at the differences, those kk players are big that's for sure. Even the girlfriend, who knows nothing about hurling said it looked like men against boys.

Now the weather conditions suited us as we moved faster and could move the ball quicker but if the weather deteriorates over the next 3 weeks it could turn into a battle, one which we would almost certainly lose.

If you go through the programme there is very little difference in height/weight in both teams,it must be the stripes that make them look bigger

Skyrim

Deleted User wrote: »

I normally like Brennan and think he is a fairly insightful pundit but he was way off the mark with that comment about Kilkenny not crossing the line whenever Kelly is officiating last night.

Think back to Cathal McCallister in 2012. Totally lost control of that game. It became a shambles. Think of Brian Gavin in 2011 who 'let it flow' despite melee after melee, missed a blatant trip on Bonnar and of course the farcial situation where he is right in front of Tommy Walsh, takes a belt in the face yet fails to take the appropriate action.

Kelly was far from perfect yesterday but he done the very best that anyone could have given the intense tempo of the game. I half hope Gavin does get the replay because if we can sneak a win then it will be against all the odds and there will be absolutely no ambiguity then whatsoever.

He also made comments about James Barry after HT in the Dublin game. Have zero time for him as an analyst after last night. As for the game, tipp can have a number of issues themselves about decisions. However unlike those on noreside, we don't complain about it at every opportunity.

Mantis Toboggan

realdanbreen wrote: »

If you go through the programme there is very little difference in height/weight in both teams,it must be the stripes that make them look bigger

That's what I was thinking!

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Involving senior panelists

Id assume so. As Ballingarry v Cashel went ahead on Saturday id imagine its only the ones involving county panellists as was the case pre Saturday.

I see the Davins are gone too? They werent good enough but in one way 'El-Carricko' attracted the bit of interest around so that will be missed.

Skyrim

Skyrim wrote: »

He also made comments about James Barry after HT in the Dublin game. Have zero time for him as an analyst after last night. As for the game, tipp can have a number of issues themselves about decisions. However unlike those on noreside, we don't complain about it at every opportunity.

There was another cheap shot a few weeks ago at Tipp where he predicted a Kilkenny v Cork 'traditional final'. I hope his missus hit him with the frying pan after it. :pac:

looder

Deleted User wrote: »

Id assume so. As Ballingarry v Cashel went ahead on Saturday id imagine its only the ones involving county panellists as was the case pre Saturday.

I see the Davins are gone too? They werent good enough but in one way 'El-Carricko' attracted the bit of interest around so that will be missed.

No point in having an El-Carricko when Davins won't turn up when they get a fixture, yet go around blaming Swan for pulling a stunt and being devious, when the truth of the matter is that they never officially contacted Carrick Swan to postpone the game.

Disappointed from a South point of view to see them go down but it's their own fault they are in the position that they're currently in. Nobody elses.

Glad Ballingarry stayed up but I always had a soft spot for Cashel. They are very poor, at the moment though and in the long-run it might be no harm they went down.

ReacherCreature

Just a thought on one of the new guys. Cathal Barrett has had an absolute stormer of a season. Even if he has a nightmare in the replay his season has been brilliant. He has hurled like a pro, not like a guy in his first year of inter-county. Where did we find him?!

While I'm here, reading the match thread over on the GAA forum is making for some very depressing and head wrecking reading. This is always the positive with this thread, some very good posts outweigh any bad ones.

looder

looder wrote: »

No point in having an El-Carricko when Davins won't turn up when they get a fixture, yet go around blaming Swan for pulling a stunt and being devious, when the truth of the matter is that they never officially contacted Carrick Swan to postpone the game.

Disappointed from a South point of view to see them go down but it's their own fault they are in the position that they're currently in. Nobody elses.

Glad Ballingarry stayed up but I always had a soft spot for Cashel. They are very poor, at the moment though and in the long-run it might be no harm they went down.

Fair point. Still though the fixture always generated the bit of annual interest. Despite where the 2 clubs were at they used bring the best out in each other on the field and id agree from a South point of view its a pity but given the system that's in place you'd wonder if they were actually ever good enough to be Senior to begin with. Yes they won the intermediate to be fair but i'm always adamant that there is a level inbetween the best intermediates and the best senior teams. Davins are between two stools. They would probably go hard on the intermediate next year but wouldnt be good enough to stay up the year after.

Why arent the Carrick clubs in general better? Is soccer (Carrick Utd) a threat to them or is there a bit of over-saturation in the town with three clubs (if you include the Mollerans) ?

Town hurling in Tipperary has struggled over the years. With the exception of Nenagh and Thurles Sars, you would have to look at the situation in Tipperary Town, Roscrea, Clonmel and Cashel.

ReacherCreature

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Just a thought on one of the new guys. Cathal Barrett has had an absolute stormer of a season. Even if he has a nightmare in the replay his season has been brilliant. He has hurled like a pro, not like a guy in his first year of inter-county. Where did we find him?!

While I'm here, reading the match thread over on the GAA forum is making for some very depressing and head wrecking reading. This is always the positive with this thread, some very good posts outweigh any bad ones.

Barrett was a minor All Ireland winner only two years ago and last year was his first year at Under 21. Great to see Holycross produce a great prospect for the county and where else would he play only in the kitchen like another Holycross legend from the past

I always felt that if he could get the better of Walter to the first few balls that went in that way that Walter is inclined to drop the head thereafter and sure enough that is how it seemingly panned out

evolving tipperary

He only became first choice with Ken Hogan after someone got injured - might have been two - but I remember John Meagher was out - he's class.

O'Shea didn't waste time in putting him in. Imagine if we lost. Okay, we could sirvive it. But imagine if we changed manager again...that would be diabolical...

As for town hurling in Cashel, Clonmel, Roscrea, and Tipp Town - and in Nenagh - rugby is really taking hold there - there'd want to be some serious under age structures put in there

evolving tipperary

Are the sounds coming out from camp too happy with the draw? Cody put a media ban on his players directly after the game....he's furious - i expect kk to play the way i thought they would the last day - they'll try and make it into a war - its their best chance of winning - tipp won't miss as many goal chances the next day

looder

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair point. Still though the fixture always generated the bit of annual interest. Despite where the 2 clubs were at they used bring the best out in each other on the field and id agree from a South point of view its a pity but given the system that's in place you'd wonder if they were actually ever good enough to be Senior to begin with. Yes they won the intermediate to be fair but i'm always adamant that there is a level inbetween the best intermediates and the best senior teams. Davins are between two stools. They would probably go hard on the intermediate next year but wouldnt be good enough to stay up the year after.

Why arent the Carrick clubs in general better? Is soccer (Carrick Utd) a threat to them or is there a bit of over-saturation in the town with three clubs (if you include the Mollerans) ?

Town hurling in Tipperary has struggled over the years. With the exception of Nenagh and Thurles Sars, you would have to look at the situation in Tipperary Town, Roscrea, Clonmel and Cashel.

My own general thoughts on it is that Schools hurling is being neglected big time in Carrick. We should be a centre of excellence for Mooncoin, Piltown, Kilsheelan, Grangemockler/Ballyneale, Clonea, Portlaw and the three Carrick Clubs. Instead Schools hurling is a joke with players and schools happy to compete in the lower grades. They should amalgamate and compete at a higher level, and more importantly the clubs should be working closer with the schools. All the best club teams are working closely with School. Ard Scoil Ris and Na Piarsigh in Limerick, Del La Salle in Waterford, Colaiste na nDeise in Dungarvan, Thurles & Nenagh in Tipp. It's no coincidence that club success followed on from schools success.

From purely a Swan point of view, at the moment, we struggle to get players to keep hurling and improving from 16 to 19 or 20. We've lost too many to emigration too. 18 players in the past 6 years.
From the 'great' underage teams of recent times (Minor 'A' Co Finalists or Champions in 2003,2004 & 2005), very few are still hurling. Only Darren Fahey, Kevin Lanigan, Dwaine Fogarty & Martin Russell remain from those three Minor teams.

There's a huge gap at present between the 31 and 32 year olds and the rest of the panel with a lot of them u21 or 22. This is mainly due to emigration. Between last year, and this year, 4 forwards were lost including Danny O' Hanlon who was on the verge of a Co Senior setup. That's too much, to lose especially considering it's lads who'd be in their prime, now, who are gone. Swan were in a South Final in 2010, Davins in 2011 and Swan in 2012 & 2013. Swan won 2010 and it took a last gasp Festy goal to beat them last year so they've been there or thereabouts, in The South.

Up the County is a big can of worms. Once the South is over, interest was usually lost in Carrick. Soccer kicked back in and I think it's fair to say that there's a psychological block there for both teams when facing opposition from outside The South. In saying that, the new Co Championship structures should help Swan to get over that block in the next couple of years. It's upto Swan to get their act together, for it.

Saturation is definitely a problem too. Still won't make us want to amalgamate though

OAOB

Barrett is some bit of stuff, he has beaten everyone he's been put on this year. Plays centre back for Holycross but I don't think he'd have the height to be a natural fit to the posution. He's a nightmare for forwards as he's so fast he's always a step ahead. Walter Walsh suits him perfectly as barrett doesn't let anyone catch the ball above his head and he is unbelievably fast on to the breaking ball.
Only criticism is he gets caught coming out with possession sometimes. I think a winter building a bit of strength will solve that but you can't teach the tenacity he has, serious good find for us

robbiezero

OAOB wrote: »

Barrett is some bit of stuff, he has beaten everyone he's been put on this year. Plays centre back for Holycross but I don't think he'd have the height to be a natural fit to the posution. He's a nightmare for forwards as he's so fast he's always a step ahead. Walter Walsh suits him perfectly as barrett doesn't let anyone catch the ball above his head and he is unbelievably fast on to the breaking ball.
Only criticism is he gets caught coming out with possession sometimes. I think a winter building a bit of strength will solve that but you can't teach the tenacity he has, serious good find for us

I would give Eamon O Shea a lot of credit for finding and developing new players such as Cathal Barrett, Barry, Bergin and regenerating the form of some of the older players.
When Barrett was minor and u21 he was decent, but speaking for myself I wouldn't have seen anything that would indicate he would be such a massive success so quickly. Likewise I thought Barry's chance had gone.