The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

Xenophile

Just Heard that Peter Creedon will be in charge of Tipp Footballers for another year . This is good news as he is very well respected by the players and this forms the basis and platform for future success.

The Lost Sheep

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Ruthless is an attitude for the most part - there is no deviation from winning. There is nothing in between winning and losing. In fact, I'd say with Cody its more about not losing than winning.

Take the managers interviews after the drawn game. Cody said he had no feelings - players sent home - no reception. Us v everyone - the template was set.

O'Shea talked about it being a brilliant game and pride in the players. Understandable, given where Tipp had come from. It's not about changes or life changes - it's all those different elements. But, it boils down to degrees of acceptance or hurt when defeated. Denis Bryne said in an interview that the biggest difference between KK and Tipp squads he was involved in were how bad KK took defeats. Tipp took them easier. That's not to say Tipp enjoy defeat....Kilkenny just don't take it as well. They go mad - hence KK's onus on physicality when galway bullied them in a semi earlier in Cody's reign....

Cody or Roy Keane - or other ruthless obsessives - don't take defeat as well as others - it produces ruthlessness.

Your nonsense is talking about changes to teams and whatever else you said - i don't see how it applies to the ruthless nature of the Cody reign. Or any team which dominates- nature of the beast. They usually don't play the best or beautiful style of game - but they win...because losing hurts too much.

We have ruthless winners playing in Tipp just not as many as in KK. - But, no I won't agree that O'Shea or Sheedy are as ruthless as Cody. I don't see it. They are not as hungry or obsessed. Nicky English too. They're too nice and interesting to be the type of person it takes to be ruthless.

There you are now, but no doubt you'll come up with your own version! And best of luck to you!

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m61wzbwJpC1rqfhi2o1_500.gif

I don't think you, et, can talk to anyone about talking nonsense with some of the nonsense you've been talking the past few pages
Sheedy certainly was as ruthless as Cody. Just look to his time as coach of us and you'll see he was. Sheedy, O Shea certainly are/were as hungry/obsessed/whatever word you want to use as Cody

evolving tipperary wrote: »

no! Can't read....You'll have to go back to school, laddie!

TBF I think you're the one who has to go back to school :pac: your understanding of what some words actually mean is bit strange

evolving tipperary

Statements again! No examples...nothing to be back up your points! Because you have none! I can only do so much to help you understand something!

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Statements again! No examples...nothing to be back up your points! Because you have none! I can only do so much to help you understand something!

So you think Liam Sheedy isnt ruthless? The same Liam Sheedy who dropped Seamus Callanan back in 2010? He brought David Young into the side and then dropped him after the Galway game when he wasnt doing it in midfield. Sheedy continously adjusted the team and it paid off when 3 of the subs who were introduced in the 2010 final scored. Callanan got 2 points, Seamus Hennessey got 1 and Benny Dunne got 1. And Sheedy wasnt afraid to use the youth either. He brought many of the successful minor team from 06 and 07 into the fold.

During Liam Sheedy's tenure we won 2 Munsters, an All Ireland and were probably unfortunate not to win another in 2009. Eamon is a briliant coach but i dont think he as good a manager that Sheedy is if im being honest and his use of the squad has probably proved this. 4 subs in the last 5 minutes the other day just wasnt good enough and i think Cahill should have been sprung from the bench a bit earlier too especially seen as we were really swamped in those first 15 minutes of the second half.

evolving tipperary

All valid points. O'Shea was hurling coach though - but that does not make him as good as manager as Sheedy. But it took Sheedy three years to win one...did it not?

Then he left...did he not?

How long has Cody been around? What has he won? How many has he dropped?

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

All valid points. O'Shea was hurling coach though - but that does not make him as good as manager as Sheedy. But it took Sheedy three years to win one...did it not?

Then he left...did he not?

How long has Cody been around? What has he won? How many has he dropped?

Your not comparing like for like. Your comparing three seasons of Sheedy to sixteen of Cody and we've already discussed other different variables and yet you still remain adamant that Sheedy left because he wasnt ruthless enough?

The difference is Sheedy took over a shambolic Tipp team who were after being knocked out of the championship by a fairly bad Wexford team and also a Tipp team who had suffered three seasons of a pure embarrassing circus where Babs played both head clown and ringmaster.

Cody took over a Kilkenny team on the rise as they had got to a Leinster final in 1997, won Leinster in 1998 and lost the All Ireland final the same year. That Kilkenny team he inherited had very good players - the likes of Michael Kavanagh, James McGarry, Philly Larkin, Peter Barry, Andy Comerford, Charlie Carter and DJ Carey plus a few others like Denis Byrne and Canice Brennan. He then went on to add the likes of Henry and Eddie Brennan and then of course the golden dynasty with Tommy Walsh, Jackie Tyrell, etc.

I cant really figure out the point your trying to make? I mean Sheedy has a good record on Cody in league and championship for one. You keep saying he walked but from what i understand Sheedy had many good reasons to walk. Aside from his job im led to believe, although i dont want to get into it too much, that there was a serious illness suffered by a member of his family? There was also another heap of junk story doing the rounds that i wont even justify with speculation.

evolving tipperary

But is that not ruthlessness? No matter what happens - no matter what is on the line in life - obsession dictates. Continue because you're obsessed with the game, with winning.

You don't think that life has thrown **** at Cody? Cody has a fairy-tale existence? Cody is ruthless and obsessed. A man obsessed with winning to the point that its not enough to win. Hence, why he even ha a go at the ref when he wins. Sheedy is not. It's plain and simple. You seem to think that I'm criticising sheedy or O'Shea by saying he is not ruthless. He's not...he's just not. Not in the same league as Cody...
My whole point revolves around Cody's 16 years...16 years alone even without 10 all-irelands- even just five would be enough for obsession - what i wouldn't give for a tipp manager who would win five titles in 16 years...

evolving tipperary

Plus - all those players and generations of teams are part of Cody's legacy - Cody is the one common denominator between the evolution of those teams - the one constant. Cody has played a huge part in making those players - making those teams, those squads.
Players come - players go. The manager has overseen it all....

The man who has stayed through it all....led the whole thing. Your making my argument for me! It's not that hard, lads!

evolving tipperary

Cody is a machine to have stayed for 16 years...a MACHINE....

you can't compare Sheedy with Cody...you can't...or O'Shea...you just can't...in terms of obsession, ruthlessness, and commitment.

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

But is that not ruthlessness? No matter what happens - no matter what is on the line in life - obsession dictates. Continue because you're obsessed with the game, with winning.

You don't think that life has thrown **** at Cody? Cody has a fairy-tale existence? Cody is ruthless and obsessed. A man obsessed with winning to the point that its not enough to win. Hence, why he even ha a go at the ref when he wins. Sheedy is not. It's plain and simple. You seem to think that I'm criticising sheedy or O'Shea by saying he is not ruthless. He's not...he's just not. Not in the same league as Cody...
My whole point revolves around Cody's 16 years...16 years alone even without 10 all-irelands- even just five would be enough for obsession - what i wouldn't give for a tipp manager who would win five titles in 16 years...

Listen, Cody is probably on another planet in terms of ruthlessness but i still dont think Sheedy lacks it to be honest. He is arguably the most ruthless we've had. If he wasnt we would never have won the All Ireland in 2010 or even got to a final for that matter and i honestly believe if he was in charge at present, Noel Mcgrath wouldnt get away with his level of performances.

Eamon, on the other hand, is far too loyal and thats his problem. I felt Eamon should have brought in more youth than Barrett this year. He didnt and as a result we have suffered in terms of strength in depth at the very least.

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Cody is a machine to have stayed for 16 years...a MACHINE....

you can't compare Sheedy with Cody...you can't...or O'Shea...you just can't...

Circumstances have helped him in terms of continuing his role though. You dont seem to be taking the important variables into consideration. As i said, from Kilkenny city, works in Kilkenny city, trains them in Kilkenny city (or at least in the summer months).

Then Sheedy or O'Shea who live and work far away from Thurles. I mean you can talk about ruthlessness but sometimes other variables help facilitate this ruthlessness. Its an amateur game, managers dont get paid. So it definately helps if travel time can be cut in any way.

Lar Corbett told in his book how Sheedy used travel the length and breadth of the county in order to see how each group (north, south, west, mid) were faring in training. To be honest no matter how hungry i was for all irelands id have to say driving for hours on end and not getting home until late at night would absolutely sap the fúckin energy out of me.

CODY HASNT THAT PROBLEM - Its pretty damn simple

evolving tipperary

That's fair enough. All I'll say is it took Shedy three years... If anything O'Shea was closer in his second than Sheedy...

Give Eamon this third year....and we'll see...that's if he chooses to stay on...

As for Noel - I've always said hes either a midfielder or a third midfielder...because if he plays midfield he still has to mark up...

so maybe third creative midfielder - which O'Shea tried to get him to play in the league and he played that way for periods in the first drawn game final... - but Noel needs to be dropped for a while I think - he's been hurling solid since he was 16/17

evolving tipperary

Listen, you can't relegate the problem to travel either. It works both ways. If its not down simply ruthlessness =- its certainly not down to travel...

Cody achievements are unparalleled - there's no shame in not being as ruthless, dynamic, or obsessive as Cody - but, please. Don't compare lads with him that don't stand up to it...

Cody's great achievement is the importance of staff and the squad. Squad over team. He made his doctor a selector....the lady - i can't think of her name...

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Listen, you can't relegate the problem to travel either. It works both ways. If its not down simply ruthlessness =- its certainly not down to travel...

Cody achievements are unparalleled - there's no shame in not being as ruthless, dynamic, or obsessive as Cody - but, please. Don't compare lads with him that don't stand up to it...

Cody's great achievement is the importance of staff and the squad. Squad over team. He made his doctor a selector....the lady - i can't think of her name...

Ruthlessness doesnt always equate to All Irelands.
Your looking at Cody's record and just assuming that Sheedy and O'Shea isnt as ruthless because of the amount of service given and All irelands won. You continue to move the goalposts for this argument and all you are really doing is digging further and further down. I would agree O'shea isnt one bit ruthless and i think loyalty is his big flaw, but i definately suspect that Sheedy is every bit as ruthless. Otherwise he wouldnt have the record that he does over Cody.

evolving tipperary

What record over Cody? He wasn't in it a wet week compared to Cody....He won one League and one All-Ireland.
I've continually said ruthlessness is an attitude - I'm not merely stressing his medals - but they are a huge factor - how can you avoid those? - I'vs posted many links regarding his treatment of players and his investment in his squad - his treatment and bullying of referees.

I never said O'Shea isn't one bit ruthlessness but he is a very different man.

The issue is dealt with now - I thought we had agreed to disagree.

If O'Shea left whether its this year or next - I wonder how long he can keep going with both jobs - who would you replace him with and why?

digzy

evolving tipperary wrote: »

If O'Shea left whether its this year or next - I wonder how long he can keep going with both jobs - who would you replace him with and why?

You'd get my vote. When things are going bad you'll waffle repeatedly so neither you nor anyone else knows what's going on!!!:eek:

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

What record over Cody? He wasn't in it a wet week compared to Cody....He won one League and one All-Ireland.
I've continually said ruthlessness is an attitude - I'm not merely stressing his medals - but they are a huge factor - how can you avoid those? - I'vs posted many links regarding his treatment of players and his investment in his squad - his treatment and bullying of referees.

I never said O'Shea isn't one bit ruthlessness but he is a very different man.

The issue is dealt with now - I thought we had agreed to disagree.

If O'Shea left whether its this year or next - I wonder how long he can keep going with both jobs - who would you replace him with and why?

Fúck knows who we could replace him with to be honest. He is the best available to us and is someway proven so on that basis i hope he stays on but i hope he decides that he is going to become a little bit more ruthless next year and start using performance as a metric rather then sentiment

evolving tipperary

Not very logical like all your points! Put I'll take the vote all the same, thanks. That's me in so - grand.

Noelie dropped until he recovers form. Lar retired. Eoin Kelly and Curran retired. O'Riordan, Meagher, John McGrath, and Michael Breen called up. Maybe even Lockie to skelp a few lads

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Not very logical like all your points! Put I'll take the vote all the same, thanks. That's me in so - grand.

Noelie dropped until he recovers form. Lar retired. Eoin Kelly and Curran retired. O'Riordan, Meagher, John McGrath, and Michael Breen called up. Maybe even Lockie to skelp a few lads

Lar will probably retire but he'd be the one player over 30 that somehow i just wouldnt push out the door yet. I think Eoin, Curran and John O'Brien are no longer needed. They've served their time and owe nothing to Tipp hurling.

I would try out as many goalkeepers as possible next year. Gleeson is top dog but needs the extra competition.

Sars hammered Portroe today 27-6 and Borrisilleagh beat Silvermines by 10 points (1-26 - 0-19). Burgess now need Drom to win the mid final in order to progress as they will then go in as Group runners up. Borrisilleagh would be promoted to first spot and Drom will go into knockout as mid champions. Loughmore beat Toomevara in a close game to advance to the last sixteen, 1-19 - 2-13.

I think if Killenaule and Clonoulty win the South and West finals respectively tomorrow, the third place teams will go into knockout round as both of them would enter as divisional champions so therefore Mullinahone, Upperchurch and Anacarthy must win their respective finals to remain in the competition.

Nenagh Eire Og, St Patricks, and Kildangan are all through to Junior Semi Finals. Thurles Sarsfields play Skeheenarinky for the fourth semi final berth tomorrow. Unless Skeheenarinky win, then St Patricks will be through to the Munster Championship as Tipperary's representatives. This is due to the fact that the other 3 semi finalists have Senior and/or Intermediate graded teams.

Two Intermediate divisonal finals tomorrow.

North
Newport v Ballinahinch

West
Lattin-Cullen v Golden-Kilfeacle

Thurles Sarsfields and St Marys of Clonmel won the other two divisional finals respectively.

Could be wrong on this but I think the four divisonal winners play the four group winners in the quarters unless of course a team wins both group and division then second will be deemed group winners and play a divisional champion?

For relegation, Ballybacon beat Cahir and Kilsheelan beat Grangemockler/Ballyneale. So a South team is sadly for the drop. Hopefully St Patricks (Drangan/Cloneen) can win out the junior A.

buggy beag

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Two Intermediate divisonal finals tomorrow.

North
Newport v Ballinahinch

West
Lattin-Cullen v Golden-Kilfeacle

Thurles Sarsfields and St Marys of Clonmel won the other two divisional finals respectively.

Could be wrong on this but I think the four divisonal winners play the four group winners in the quarters unless of course a team wins both group and division then second will be deemed group winners and play a divisional champion?

For relegation, Ballybacon beat Cahir and Kilsheelan beat Grangemockler/Ballyneale. So a South team is sadly for the drop. Hopefully St Patricks (Drangan/Cloneen) can win out the junior A.

Fookin hell does it be that complicated?is it just a tipperary thing or are other championships similar?

buggy beag

buggy beag wrote: »

Fookin hell does it be that complicated?is it just a tipperary thing or are other championships similar?

It would give you a headache. Organisers need to look at the whole structure. We have 66 clubs so therefore shoud have more than 3 divisions. Fair enough there is a few reserve teams in the Inter and Junior comps but still though it should be far better organised than the current mess. There is a few teams that just shouldnt be Senior. Portroe took a battering from Sars today and Portroe to be fair to them wouldnt be the worst team in the county by any stretch.

We now have until at the earliest the 25th October and at the latest the 2nd November to complete the Senior championship in order to put a team forward for the Munster club championship. The first round of Munster is November 9th so in order to give the champions a 2 week break it would be better to have it concluded on October 25th. I would reckon there will be a knockout round played midweek under lights in the stadium somehow to alleviate the fixture pileup.

buggy beag

buggy beag wrote: »

Fookin hell does it be that complicated?is it just a tipperary thing or are other championships similar?

To be fair i doubt its us only but off the top of my head i cant think of any other championship that have this structure.

hinault

Information from a contact in Tipperary.

On TippFM radio last Monday (30th Sept), someone interviewed on the Seamus Martin show confirmed that some of the Tipperary players had "gone for a drink" on the night before the replay.

Did anyone hear this being said on TippFm? I was told that this was said on the show between 9.00am and 11.00am.

hinault

Liam Sheedy has a very responsible job with Bank of Ireland. A large part of his time requires him to be in Dublin at BOI HQ.
How one is expected to marry a high powered job and be county hurling manager is beyond me.
I think that it must be near impossible to serve both roles fully at the same time.

Eamonn O'Shea's work is based in Galway city. His job at NUIG is very high profile but, at a guess, it would not be as demanding as Sheedy's job at BOI because at least Eamonn is based in one location whereas Liam's job involves a lot of travelling on behalf of BOI.
But still there is a huge commitment in having to commute from Galway to Tipp to attend selection meetings, training, representing the county at functions......

hinault

hinault wrote: »

Information from a contact in Tipperary.

On TippFM radio last Monday (30th Sept), someone interviewed on the Seamus Martin show confirmed that some of the Tipperary players had "gone for a drink" on the night before the replay.

Did anyone hear this being said on TippFm? I was told that this was said on the show between 9.00am and 11.00am.

I didnt hear it but i wouldnt take much notice of it to be honest. Sounds like one or two around the county just want to make up excuses instead of accepting the simple hard fact of it. As far as im concerned we lost because we simply werent good enough on the day. Id be critical of the manager and the lack of urgency he showed on the bench but otherwise we can have no complaints about the result.

GerB40

hinault wrote: »

Information from a contact in Tipperary.

On TippFM radio last Monday (30th Sept), someone interviewed on the Seamus Martin show confirmed that some of the Tipperary players had "gone for a drink" on the night before the replay.

Did anyone hear this being said on TippFm? I was told that this was said on the show between 9.00am and 11.00am.

Despite the fact there's a bit of history in this regard, I wouldn't believe this whatsoever. The lads have been trying their best to rid themselves of past stories so why fúck it all up by goin drinking the night before their most important game in years..

Sounds like some old fashioned shít stirring to me.

Skeheenarinky beat Thurles Sars by 2 points in the JHC 'A' quarter final. So they take the semi final berth. Either them or St Pats will represent Tipperary in the Munster JHC.