Thomas Hitzlsperger announces he is gay

Neeson

efb wrote: »

I changed in the same dressing rooms as my workmates for the Xmas 5 a side no-one seemed bothered .

Yeah but if say it would be different doing it day in day out as a professional footballer. The rough and rumble and running around the dressing room and all the high jinks that would be taking place.

efb

Cienciano wrote: »

The FA just have to come out (pardon the pun) and tell clubs any homophobic abuse from fans will be treated the same as racist abuse.
Mustn't be too nice for gay fans to be in a stand where a load of fans are shouting some homophobic chant

Isn't, especially when its your own fans (Directed at Ashley Cole)

efb

Neeson wrote: »

Yeah but if say it would be different doing it day in day out as a professional footballer. The rough and rumble and running around the dressing room and all the high jinks that would be taking place.

I'd say most wouldn't care. Homophobes might though.

cathalio11

A black man, Boateng, has played for Germany.
A Muslim, Ozil, has played for Germany.
And now an openly homosexual man has player for Germany.

I hope Hitler is getting a good view of this while he's burning.

Delighted that he come out. I've always remembered him for his pile-driver of a shot with great fondness and now I'll also remember him for the courage he showed in doing this.

Neeson

efb wrote: »

I'd say most wouldn't care. Homophobes might though.

I suppose. It a bit of an unfair advantage though. The heterosexuals would be wanting a few ladies in to get them going as well!

Darkglasses

Neeson wrote: »

This could be true. But isn't it the equivalent of a you going into a woman's changing room where chances are there is at least one alluring woman in the squad?

No not really. Although it's completely understandable why you'd think so, all gay men I've ever heard talk about this say it's completely different. They spend a hell of a lot more time in male dressing rooms than straight men do in women's. It becomes a lot less sexualized.

Now this I don't if it's true for all gay men, but from conversations I've had with one good friend of mine who's gay, he just doesn't think of straight men in the same way as other gay men. He knows immediately not to go there.

efb

Neeson wrote: »

I suppose. It a bit of an unfair advantage though. The heterosexuals would be wanting a few ladies in to get them going as well!

unless they all looked like Freddie Ljunberg, I reckon there ok.

Neeson

efb wrote: »

unless they all looked like Freddie Ljunberg, I reckon there ok.

Well Freddie may be the full package but then you have the player with special features such as Ivanovic - he has a fabulous bum.

cathalio11

Darkglasses wrote: »

Now this I don't if it's true for all gay men, but from conversations I've had with one good friend of mine who's gay, he just doesn't think of straight men in the same way as other gay men. He knows immediately not to go there.

And I am sure that that is a natural psychological thing.

Heterosexual men wouldn't really know because they assume that all women are attracted to men, but gay men would be in a different scenario seeing as they are a minority.

PhlegmyMoses

Anybody thinking that this isn't big news is deluding themselves.

The first high profile name in soccer was always going to be a big deal due to the lack of people that have come out previously.

dreamers75

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Anybody thinking that this isn't big news is deluding themselves.

The first high profile name in soccer was always going to be a big deal due to the lack of people that have come out previously.

Mainly because the actual 1st high profile player to come out killed himself.

efb wrote: »

I changed in the same dressing rooms as my workmates for the Xmas 5 a side no-one seemed bothered.

Delighted, Thomas isn't bad looking either.

Player on my old team was gay and it was known to everyone in the dressing room, noone gave a ****. He got abuse about it and it was no different to the abuse the lad with the hot ma got or the abuse the lad who spent 30 minutes fixing his hair got or the lad who missed a sitter got.

Group of men in an enclosed space ....someone is going to get abuse what its about is irrelevant.

PhlegmyMoses

dreamers75 wrote: »

Mainly because the actual 1st high profile player to come out killed himself

Totally forgot about Fashanu.

cathalio11

dreamers75 wrote: »

Mainly because the actual 1st high profile player to come out killed himself.

He is the first player to have played in the Premier League to come out. That is why it is a big story.

It is another step towards total equality for homosexual people.

niallo27

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Anybody thinking that this isn't big news is deluding themselves.

The first high profile name in soccer was always going to be a big deal due to the lack of people that have come out previously.

The first player to come out while still playing well be big news. This isn't that a big of a deal for me.

astonaidan

It really shouldnt be a big deal in this era, I dont know how anyone can have a problem with someone being gay and treat him any different

PhlegmyMoses

niallo27 wrote: »

The first player to come out while still playing well be big news. This isn't that a big of a deal for me.

This might pave the way for other players to come out. It'll be a slow process. Pity St Pauli aren't a bigger club. They'd be awesome for an openly gay big name player to play for.

Darkglasses

Darkglasses wrote: »

No not really. Although it's completely understandable why you'd think so, all gay men I've ever heard talk about this say it's completely different. They spend a hell of a lot more time in male dressing rooms than straight men do in women's. It becomes a lot less sexualized.

Now this I don't if it's true for all gay men, but from conversations I've had with one good friend of mine who's gay, he just doesn't think of straight men in the same way as other gay men. He knows immediately not to go there.

So let's de-sexualise it for everyone.

dreamers75

worth a read


http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/

Al Capwned

I was actually more surprised that he had 52 caps for Germany! No mean feat!

Good luck to the guy, hope he's happy!

Bridge93

If no one has come out does this mean there are numerous ex players married to women to cover up being gay? Or are there many ex pros who are middle/old aged and single but still not out?

Dempsey

niallo27 wrote: »

The first player to come out while still playing well be big news. This isn't that a big of a deal for me.

There has been 1 or 2 to do so

Neeson

Bridge93 wrote: »

If no one has come out does this mean there are numerous ex players married to women to cover up being gay? Or are there many ex pros who are middle/old aged and single but still not out?

Yes they say Max Clifford is hiding them and gets them to go out and get the paparazzi to snap them with a blonde. Just to keep it under wraps. Some of the current players you could put a question mark over. You could even see the odd hint on the field sometimes that might make you think - I wonder is he one of the boys max is protecting?

Andersonisgod

Neeson wrote: »

Yes they say Max Clifford is hiding them and gets them to go out and get the paparazzi to snap them with a blonde. Just to keep it under wraps. Some of the current players you could put a question mark over. You could even see the odd hint on the field sometimes that might make you think - I wonder is he one of the boys max is protecting?

Wait, I'm sorry, what? What behavior on the pitch might indicate homosexuality to you?

Neeson

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Wait, I'm sorry, what? What behavior on the pitch might indicate homosexuality to you?

No I don't mean to offend. I always had my suspicions on the odd one - namely a certain Manchester United player. Just based on mannerisms around the pitch. That's obviously not a foolproof way of looking at it but just you know if you walked into a bar and saw a man acting in a certain way you might think to yourself he's gay. So I suppose just the way a player might move or flap their arms about or something (and no I'm not referring to Ronaldo!).

Andersonisgod

Neeson wrote: »

No I don't mean to offend. I always had my suspicions on the odd one - namely a certain Manchester United player. Just based on mannerisms around the pitch. That's obviously not a foolproof way of looking at it but just you know if you walked into a bar and saw a man acting in a certain way you might think to yourself he's gay. So I suppose just the way a player might move or flap their arms about or something (and no I'm not referring to Ronaldo!).

I just thought it was an odd turn of phrase. Though I would say that method really is pretty flawed, some people are simply more expressive than others and that may materialise itself through more hand and body gestures. Without generalising, I've found that such expressions of emotion are more common among players from the continent than perhaps Britain, that's of course not always the case but hand and body gestures are more prevalent in other cultures.

Neeson

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I just thought it was an odd turn of phrase. Though I would say that method really is pretty flawed, some people are simply more expressive than others and that may materialise itself through more hand and body gestures. Without generalising, I've found that such expressions of emotion are more common among players from the continent than perhaps Britain, that's of course not always the case but hand and body gestures are more prevalent in other cultures.

This may be true but it wouldn't even be the arm movement - just the look - the general demeanour.

vicwatson

So what if he's gay? get over it. who cares?

Andersonisgod

Neeson wrote: »

This may be true but it wouldn't even be the arm movement - just the look - the general demeanour.

I don't mean to derail the thread because it is such a positive thread but I genuinely am interested, what do you mean? Someone with an unusual haircut? A player wearing pink boots? I really don't think you can make assumptions on people based on such things.

Neeson

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't mean to derail the thread because it is such a positive thread but I genuinely am interested, what do you mean? Someone with an unusual haircut? A player wearing pink boots? I really don't think you can make assumptions on people based on such things.

No, I don't know how to explain it really. He wouldn't need to have pink boots, gelled hair, a tight and hard body or a good jaw and hairless legs to be seen by men in that way. It's just in the eyes I think. I dunno how to say it.

Andersonisgod

Neeson wrote: »

No, I don't know how to explain it really. He wouldn't need to have pink boots, gelled hair, a tight and hard body or a good jaw and hairless legs to be seen by men in that way. It's just in the eyes I think. I dunno how to say it.

I am pretty confident that homosexuals are not like the basilisk in Harry Potter. I am going to bow out of this conversation now, it's become far too weird.

On topic, fair play to Thomas Hitzlsperger. People will say that it isn't news and it isn't a big deal and, I agree that it shouldn't be a big deal, but the only way for that to happen is for it to become more common place and the only way for the to happen is for more players to come out in public. A fine role model for a minority that is serious under-represented in football, credit to Der Hammer for his bravery.

hefferboi

Neeson wrote: »

No I don't mean to offend. I always had my suspicions on the odd one - namely a certain Manchester United player. Just based on mannerisms around the pitch. That's obviously not a foolproof way of looking at it but just you know if you walked into a bar and saw a man acting in a certain way you might think to yourself he's gay. So I suppose just the way a player might move or flap their arms about or something (and no I'm not referring to Ronaldo!).

I've learned to never judge anyone like this. I used to see lads who were camp or whatever and thought they were gay. Few lads at home were like that and they'd have the other lads taking the piss out of them behind their back only for the camp lads to end up pulling the nicest women on a regular basis. Then you have fella's who you'd never think were gay turn out to be gay.

Nowadays I don't assume anything and don't really care. The whole stereotype that a lot of people think of is way off.

SherlockWatson

Neeson wrote: »

No, I don't know how to explain it really. He wouldn't need to have pink boots, gelled hair, a tight and hard body or a good jaw and hairless legs to be seen by men in that way. It's just in the eyes I think. I dunno how to say it.

Do you get time to watch the football in between checking out their body, jaws and legs?

Neeson

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Do you get time to watch the football in between checking out their body, jaws and legs?

Haha - I suppose it would be over a certain period it would become noticeable. Just the little things!

GavRedKing

Well PSG's Alex makes a stupid comment.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/former-chelsea-star-alex-in-homophobic-row-29899641.html

Alex, who now plays for PSG is said to have told French channel Canal+, in a programme to be aired tonight on religion in football: "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Yves".

Another Brazilian defender who plays for Marcos Ceara also says on the 'Jesus Football Club' show: "I am against divorce and abortion. I’m not really for homosexuality".

While there has been widespread support for Hitzlsperger, the comments made by Alex as well as Michael Johnson's resignation from the Football Association inclusion advisory board are indicative that not everyone is so accepting

Mitch Connor

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I am pretty confident that homosexuals are not like the basilisk in Harry Potter. I am going to bow out of this conversation now, it's become far too weird.

On topic, fair play to Thomas Hitzlsperger. People will say that it isn't news and it isn't a big deal and, I agree that it shouldn't be a big deal, but the only way for that to happen is for it to become more common place and the only way for the to happen is for more players to come out in public. A fine role model for a minority that is serious under-represented in football, credit to Der Hammer for his bravery.

Nesson is making a fair point.

I would guess this is an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDfxzviQGsU

Knex*

I can't fathom that response from Alex. Its just mind numbingly stupid, but unfortunately there is no way you can change, or reason, with a mindset like that.

That's not a problem in Football either, that's a problem in society.

P_1

Like many others have said, it shouldn't have to be big news in this day and age but being openly gay in sport still has an unwanted taboo about it.

I'm not too surprised about the Brazillian player's remarks once you remember how much of a hold and influence the Catholic Church has over Brazil.

Mitch Connor

Knex. wrote: »

I can't fathom that response from Alex. Its just mind numbingly stupid, but unfortunately there is no way you can change, or reason, with a mindset like that.

That's not a problem in Football either, that's a problem in society.

i don't see Alex's response as odd. I don't agree with it, but it is a perfectly normal response.

Any Roman Catholic who considers themselves a devout Roman Catholic would likely share the same opinion. I am sure that is true of devout followers of most religions.

As you say, it is a football commenting, but it is a society issue - nothing to do with football.

IamtheWalrus

The fact that he has come out after retiring shows how backward football still is. I don't see his announcement as progress.

hefferboi

GavRedKing wrote: »

Well PSG's Alex makes a stupid comment.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/former-chelsea-star-alex-in-homophobic-row-29899641.html

Sad

LiamoSail

Knex. wrote: »

I can't fathom that response from Alex. Its just mind numbingly stupid, but unfortunately there is no way you can change, or reason, with a mindset like that.

That's not a problem in Football either, that's a problem in society.

It's very easy to say that, but you have to put his remarks in context. Ask the same question to your Granny or Grandfather, anyone of that generation raised in an era where the word of the church had an immense hold over the behaviour and attitude of a nation. The likelihood is that they'd give a similar answer to that Alex gave. Alex's views are born from a culture of heavy religious influence, and his intolerances a product of this.

I personally don't agree with the views, but it's easy to see where they stem from

golfball37

Is Alex not entitled to his opinion the same as all the new age PC people who think being gay is ok? If he's not that Facism ladies and gents.

ArmaniJeanss

Knex. wrote: »

I can't fathom that response from Alex. Its just mind numbingly stupid, but unfortunately there is no way you can change, or reason, with a mindset like that.

I could be wrong but I don't think Alex's comments are a response to Hitzlspergers statement yesterday - fairly sure they were recorded beforehand.

maximoose

dreamers75 wrote: »

worth a read


http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/

That's a very interesting read, names and shames a lot of players.

MrStuffins

golfball37 wrote: »

Is Alex not entitled to his opinion the same as all the new age PC people who think being gay is ok? If he's not that Facism ladies and gents.

Finding homosexuality normal is not being in the "PC Brigade", it's being normal.

He's entitled to his opinion and we're entitled to say he's a backwards buffoon!

Gbear

golfball37 wrote: »

Is Alex not entitled to his opinion the same as all the new age PC people who think being gay is ok? If he's not that Facism ladies and gents.

Boo ****ing hoo.

Fascism is forcefully censoring people.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you're entitled to say whatever you like and then not get pulled up on it if it's ignorant misinformed ****.

It goes both ways.

golfball37

MrStuffins wrote: »

Finding homosexuality normal is not being in the "PC Brigade", it's being normal.

He's entitled to his opinion and we're entitled to say he's a backwards buffoon!

Its not normal in any way shape or form in my opinion. Society would cease if were all "normal" if that were the case.

I have nothing against HS's at all and they should be treated as normal people with the right not to be abused, what they practice however is far from normal imo.

weldoninhio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't mean to derail the thread because it is such a positive thread but I genuinely am interested, what do you mean? Someone with an unusual haircut? A player wearing pink boots? I really don't think you can make assumptions on people based on such things.

I think your fishing for a controversial answer. If you can't see where he is coming from your blind. For example, look at Vidic on the pitch, he looks like a scary mofo, a beast. Now off the pitch he could be the kindest, most softly spoken, gentle giant ever, but your impression of him would be based on what you have seen on the pitch.

Mars Bar

niallo27 wrote: »

The first player to come out while still playing well be big news. This isn't that a big of a deal for me.

This has already happened. Robbie Rogers retired at 25, announced he is gay, and is now back out of retirement after 3 months and playing for L.A Galaxy.

Gbear

MrStuffins wrote: »

Finding homosexuality normal is not being in the "PC Brigade", it's being normal.

He's entitled to his opinion and we're entitled to say he's a backwards buffoon!

To be fair, being loving and non-judgemental isn't really normal for the human race.

Then again, for most of our history, neither was being particularly hygienic or having an average lifespan >35.