Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Will I Amnt

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If this is true it says a lot and makes the excuse that no money is available seem pretty poor one



I understand German and Italian league players are hard to sign outside those leagues, but that is a depressing and shows where we are wasting money.

Dortmund are notorious for their low wages. I wouldn't use them as any sort of yardstick.

The_Kew_Tour

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Dortmund are notorious for their low wages. I wouldn't use them as any sort of yardstick.

I understand that, but point still stands in that surely going to one of these players agents and giving them a deal just as good might make them think twice.

Im only using it as example.

kstand

Although they were/are in similar positions at this stage of their first season, there is no comparison between Wenger and Moyes. Wenger came over to the UK from Japan - Moyes came 30 miles away from Liverpool. Wenger had an outstanding keeper and back 4, Moyes has a top class keeper and a great centre half in the making in Jones, plus Rafael but thats whre it stops. Moyes has had 11 years in this league - it was new to Wenger. Moyes has never had Everton or United since he came playing with the same fluidity and movement Wenger had Arsenal playing with - and wont either. Its a comparison - but a comparison for comparison sake.

Timmyctc

Tbh i think it worse that clevz is on 80k. At least young was good once

Headshot wrote: »

Makes me fair sick that Young is on that much, pure sickening

Kerrydude1981

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Is it just me, but is it annoying that we cant even play well for 45 minutes?

Perfect example was Fulham game away this season. Go 3-0 up. Playing lovely stuff. Next thing its back to usual tripe for 70 minutes. Fulham won that 70 minute period 1-0 even.

Same against Spurs. Go 0-2 down, reply, play great stuff for 7-8 minutes and then bang we are back to normal.

Tom Cleverley was having a great game that day against Fulham before he went off injured.

For some reason that day the three subs were brought on at half time as well.

Mikeyt086

Timmyctc wrote: »

Tbh i think it worse that clevz is on 80k. At least young was good once

At the start of the 2011 season Tom Cleverley was **** hot and many demanded he been given the starting role over Michael Carrick who only passed sideways and backwards.

kryogen

RVP first ten games - Including games v City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal 20points - 2ppg average
United next ten games - 14pts - 1.4ppg average

To think he doesnt make quite a difference is strange, he is so often the difference between getting a result and not

The next ten games were easier technically then the first ten yet we took 6 points less in them. This is not totally down to no RVP, but he is a big factor, him not being there to bail the team out is hurting.

The_Kew_Tour

The start of the 11/12 season saw United play some of the best football I ever saw. Anderson even looked savage. We drew 1-1 with Stoke late September and it was more poor then good after that again. Whatever happened.

Crimson King

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

At the start of the 2011 season Tom Cleverley was **** hot and many demanded he been given the starting role over Michael Carrick who only passed sideways and backwards.

True, I remember many hailing the Anderson/ clev combo. Jesus there is such deadweight in the squad now, on huge money to boot. These two players and young are on £250k+ a week. And they are not the only ones. Giggs, Val and Patrice are on huge money too, relative to what they offer. The squad needs a serious overhaul and there is plenty of scope there if players can be moved on.

I don't envy moyes as I feel he may only have this and the next window to do it, and that's a big task. He has shown he can be ruthless in terms of the back room staff so will be an interesting few months. That's assuming the results don't get even worse and he does not even get another window.

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If this is true it says a lot and makes the excuse that no money is available seem pretty poor one



I understand German and Italian league players are hard to sign outside those leagues, but that is a depressing and shows where we are wasting money.

I would be all kinds of astonished if Cleverley was earning 80k a week

Young was on 90k wasnt he not 120?

Think TC23 is on about 60k (which in itself is irritating)

The_Kew_Tour

kryogen wrote: »

I would be all kinds of astonished if Cleverley was earning 80k a week

Young was on 90k wasnt he not 120?

Think you might be right. Seen 70+ though for Cleverley few times.

Even still 90k is hell lot of money for Young.

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Think you might be right. Seen 70+ though for Cleverley few times.

Even still 90k is hell lot of money for Young.

Yeah had a quick search for Clev, see a few saying 60k, a couple saying close to 70k and one or two saying 80k (again not confirming, just saying they speculate it will be that as he will get toward a level that Welbeck is on, he is in the 70's)

Edit: Found one that has his monthly salary at roughly 50k that would be more like it!

Burt Macklin

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The start of the 11/12 season saw United play some of the best football I ever saw. Anderson even looked savage. We drew 1-1 with Stoke late September and it was more poor then good after that again. Whatever happened.

I think the quality of the opposition had something to do with it. The team started in a rich vein of form admittedly, with Cleverley and Anderson both hitting good patches/staying fit at the same time. They walloped an injury hit Arsenal side in the midst of a poor run of form, and a dreadful Bolton team, but on the whole I think they flattered to deceive. After a few weeks the tiki taka stuff stopped and normal service was resumed.

Anyone remember some folks on Red Cafe around that time saying we don't need Sneijder, we've got Cleverley? Lol

dubmick

Moyes nominated for December manager of the month. They must be taking the p*ss.

Vic Vinegar

dubmick wrote: »

Moyes nominated for December manager of the month. They must be taking the p*ss.

Why? it's for December. We had good results in December.

That's what they base it on, results.

Burt Macklin

Didn't Moyes win 5 on the spin in December? Does seem a little bit weird all the same.


Edit: 5 wins in a row including the League Cup, League form was W4 D1 L2

dubmick

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Why? it's for December. We had good results in December.

That's what they base it on, results.

won four, drew once and lost twice

kryogen

Is a bit strange I suppose, back to back home league defeats in December

Cantona's Collars

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

If we managed to get a goal in the early part of our games, we would be better off. The last bunch of games have seen us dominate the first twenty minutes by and large, but without getting the reward for our dominance. If we got that goal, the opposition would have to open up more to get back into the game and that's where we could hurt them some more on the counter. When we don't score early, we generally just run out of ideas eventually and revert to boring style.

Hopefully we can get an early goal against Swansea, get some confidence flowing and rip them a new a-hole.

Get an early goal,play well for 20 odd minutes then revert to the usual tripe and concede a late equaliser.:(

Vic Vinegar

dubmick wrote: »

won four, drew once and lost twice

kryogen wrote: »

Is a bit strange I suppose, back to back home league defeats in December

Ah, forgot about those 2 defeats...

Fooked if i know then!

gosplan

kryogen wrote: »

RVP first ten games - Including games v City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal 20points - 2ppg average
United next ten games - 14pts - 1.4ppg average

To think he doesnt make quite a difference is strange, he is so often the difference between getting a result and not

The next ten games were easier technically then the first ten yet we took 6 points less in them. This is not totally down to no RVP, but he is a big factor, him not being there to bail the team out is hurting.

So if there had been no dip, they'd be 3 points behind Chelsea, 5 points off top and in 4th place.

People really need to ease up on Moyes and give him the chance to succeed.

Headshot

Anyone notice the amount of unwanted opposition fans that have posted in the utd thread since we became this bad

Moyes strikes again

n32

Headshot wrote: »

Anyone notice the amount of unwanted opposition fans that have posted in the utd thread since we became this bad

Moyes strikes again

Every where you go these days the lurkers who kept quiet for the last 20 years are having their say. People who never wanted to talk about football with me now cant stop talking about it. gowls!

kryogen

Unwanted is a bit strong.

The only unwanted posters (for me) are the wind up merchants who dont offer any constructive viewpoints or discussion. Doesnt matter to me who they support personally

Burt Macklin

I, for one, welcome our new ABU overlords. Well not really, but at least if they're mocking us they still see us as a threat. If they start feeling sorry for us, then we know we're in bother

Will I Amnt

kryogen wrote: »

Unwanted is a bit strong.

It's funny how you have the same posters that were moaning about United fans in "their" thread posting here so regularly :pac:

Mars Bar

Just watched The Class of '92. Thoroughly enjoyable way to spend an hour and a half. It's brilliant! I like the way Ryan Giggs tells stories.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

. On the defensive side, the shape and pressing are different. This season the CMs often chase up the pitch when defending, just like Moyes' at Everton did and unlike how Fergie's team defended. And then you have the complete lack of energy in the last 10-20 minutes of games. The team are now always struggling in that period, just like Everton used to and in stark contrast to how United used to dominate the latter stages.

Yes this has been part of the problem and poorly executed by the players and Moyes but its not that they always chase up when we don't have possesion primarily failing us, its that they get dragged out of shape and don't chase up early enough or start hold and then go in MF. When we have the ball they don't alternate enough with one going forward to support the attack. For me Clev is the worst at reading the game about when to hold and not, especially when Rooney is absent because there is more space in the hole for the opposition. There is also a lack of wide defensive wing cover allowing our wing backs to help the CB's more.

Its seems there is an emphasis on Clev to hold his position too much and he is too easily confused. Below he is surrounded by four players and when Sunderland pressed up he is simply overrun, him and Carrick. There is not enough support from the front defensively either. Fletcher is doing what Rooney would in that situation, coming very deep, Clev should be further away from him and in behind that MF three of Sunderland so Carrick can pick a pass, because Clev is surrounded Carrick passes back to defense.



For the second goal Clev made a mistake by giving the ball away, he then rushed towards Johnson instead of staying close to Carrick. Clev then got turned and Johnson was able to drive at our defense, Clev gave chase and gave away the penalty. He should not have rushed in so quickly and stayed with Carrick and let Evra go to Johnson and then engaged him if Evra was beat but chances are Evra would force him to cross. Evra see's Clev has him so holds off, Clev allows Johnson to cut inside which is much more dangerous than a cross.



This picture shows how much we missed Rooney due to his dropping into help the pressure on our Midfeild duo. Look at the space Cattermole has, Rooney would normally be all over him and this time Clev and Carrick are holding there position. Holding from the MF duo here is fine if Cattermole is under pressure from Rooney or anybody because he will have to pass and our MF duo have a chance to intercept. Giggs and Welbeck offered nothing to close that space. Giggs doesn't have the legs to do it which is a squad thing and Welbeck is the lone striker.



So there was no pressure on Cattermole and Giggs is not getting back quickly enough and Januzaj has let Borini go, all poor but in a way they are taking their cue or holding their line from where our MF duo hold theirs. Here Clev decides to engage Cattermole too early. Carrick is heading towards Fletcher who is heading towards our goal, this is right. Clev should have stayed with him and both should have dropped so deep that they gave the defense deep cover and would have naturally pulled our wide players back giving Sunderland less space and almost made it man for man.




Its too high to be pressing. Look at Chelsea away to Arsenal here. The MF three has dropped deep to hold a line. Its four defenders on two strikers and the wingers are covered by the Chelseas wide players. 9 Chelseas players holding deep without the ball leaving a lone striker for a counter. Its a different Chelsea system 4-3-3 but even though they have 3 MF's against an Arsenal 3 we missed Rooney dropping deep against Sunderland and he could be snapping at Ozils heels here. The Chelsea team is very organised and the defense and wide players are positioned around and in relation to how far the defense has dropped. With our going to early, getting turned and allowing the opposition between the lines our DF's are forced to break the line rather than hold it and engage the opposition. Its too dangerous.

Chelsea did this at OT too and its not quite parking the bus but they rely on a lot of countering. We don't have the central quality to deploy this as well as Chelsea but we could do with more organisation.



In attack both our MF duo are holding when they should be attacking. Januzaj is in a great position here but his only real options are Giggs and Val. Welbeck is outnumbered as is Januzaj but support from Carrick or Clev allows an option of a one two and Januzaj can push on and work a pass with Welbeck.

At the risk of picking on him its Clev again here. Carrick is the deep lying player in attack and Clev should be supporting. He does do this at times but he picks the wrong time too much.



Instead the ball went to Giggs who crosses but it was easily clear as Welbeck was outnumbered.

Our MF duo seem to not engage quickly and high enough or hold very deep like Chelsea with support. With the ball going sideways so much the emphasis is on width and our wide players are not helping enough. With Evra seemingly only half bothered to track back its leaving us very vunerable especially when Rooney is out.

Will I Amnt

Oh oh^^^^
I'm outta here.

Neeson

Is that Gary Neville?

Cantona's Collars

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Oh oh^^^^
I'm outta here.

Gary Neville is a boardsie.


In fairness I agree with everything in that post,how can a manager getting paid a fortune not notice that & organise his team better?

Your Airbag

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Oh oh^^^^
I'm outta here.

Why? I highlighted more than Clev doing wrong. There are many sqaud flaws and players not adjusting. Clev just happens to make more mistakes when we don't have the ball. Not bashing him solely as there is more than just one player costing us.

Rooney and RVPs absence are big too.

RobertKK

Johnny Giles said this evening that Carrick and Cleverley should be gone and replaced with Mata and someone like Fabregas.

Neeson

RobertKK wrote: »

Johnny Giles said this evening that Carrick and Cleverley should be gone and replaced with Mata and someone like Fabregas.

Giles is a dinosaur.

Will I Amnt

Your Airbag wrote: »

Why? I highlighted more than Clev doing wrong. There are many sqaud flaws and players not adjusting. Clev just happens to make more mistakes when we don't have the ball. Not bashing him solely as there is more than just one player costing us.

Rooney and RVPs absence are big too.

Nothing to do with your post man. It's yours and Pro F's next 20 odd posts I'm fearful of :pac:

Your Airbag

zerks wrote: »

Gary Neville is a boardsie.


In fairness I agree with everything in that post,how can a manager getting paid a fortune not notice that & organise his team better?

I think the players are having trouble adjusting and not doing exactly what Moyes instructs and he doesn't have them organised as he would like yet or they can't implement it come matchday.

ProF's point about our CM's chasing too high up is kind of correct. They push up in the middle, not high enough but almost right in the centre. Either press high or hold deep. We are too weak to play it in the middle of the park.

I have heard a few things from match regular mates of mine regards a comment or too Moyes has said on the touchline which lead me to believe me he is not seeing enough on the pitch what he wants or instructs. I'm not going to day it on here as I have had a go at one or two others for "me mate told me" type stuff.

Of course this is a fault of his is he can't get tactical training accross enough but also on the players making poor interpretations or not putting in the work effort enough during a match which some aren't and I tried to highlight.

It all comes down to one area again, CMF.

Cantona's Collars

Neeson wrote: »

Giles is a dinosaur.

If he put on a pair of boots he'd still improve our midfield even at his age.

Neeson

People would have Giles over Cattermole? A fella 50 years younger! The mind boggles. Streuth!

Your Airbag

Neeson wrote: »

Is that Gary Neville?

Lol no I can't take the credit. Most of the pics were taken from here.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1911385-film-focus-analyzing-manchester-uniteds-failures-in-2-1-cup-loss-to-sunderland

Most of the points are a little different in regards Rooney being out but it always helps to have pictures and bleachers do good ones.

The Chelsea organisation is how to do it, at least our MF duo could be holding like Chelseas 3 in that situation with Rooney coming back and our wide players staying behind the MF.

ProF raised a good point about our CMs chasing high and it reminded me of the article and I tired to relate his point to that. They are chasing high'ish, not high enough though, instead its almost in the worse possible area.

Its mainly Clev rushing in at the wrong time but Moyes has either instructed him to do this and not to hold together with Carrick and given Clev the sole chase em down high duty which, if he has, is a huge error on Moyes part because Clev is really bad at it. Its so easy to counter us and get in between the lines atm.

beno619

Nuts102 wrote: »

That really is nonsense Evra was not as bad last year. He was average last season nothing special but this season he has been disgraceful.

His first half of the season was just as poor he ended the season well though, that's just my opinion and people have vastly differung memories of last season.

JRant

Pro. F wrote: »

The football United are playing this season is nothing like what was played under Fergie at any point in his time at the club. Yes, Fergie's team produced some poor football at times, including last season, but never anything like this.

Not only was the quality miles better under Ferguson, the style was also very different. The rigid attacking pattern with lack of off the ball movement and variation, the emphasis on passing combinations to play the fullbacks into space, the emphasis on crossing, these are all new. On the defensive side, the shape and pressing are different. This season the CMs often chase up the pitch when defending, just like Moyes' at Everton did and unlike how Fergie's team defended. And then you have the complete lack of energy in the last 10-20 minutes of games. The team are now always struggling in that period, just like Everton used to and in stark contrast to how United used to dominate the latter stages.

We played a lot of pretty awful stuff last season and were bailed out on many occassions by RVP.

I agree about change in defensive tactics. It seems Moyes wants to play a high pressing game. When we do it properly we look a different team. It does look like the players haven't fully bought into the system though. Some press while others are drop and its leaving us wide open. Fergie had the whole team drop deep when not in possession over the past few seasons and this still seems to be the default for some of the players. They look very confused in defense as a result.

onemorechance

...
'The fans’ support is very important. The fans have been great here, especially now when we are not in the best of form and we have lost the last few games,' Rooney told MUTV.
'We need them to support us through this time. We will get stronger and we will get better. The fans are vital in being patient with us and letting us try to get there. I am sure we will do.'
...

Daily Mail

...
De Gea told the club's official website: "We frequently stay after training to practice crossing and finishing.

"We do it especially when there are no matches in the following days and I think the extra training helps me and the other players to improve."

The former Atletico Madrid keeper also said that he and striker Javier Hernandez have struck up a partnership during the extra sessions.

"We always do our best and he's a player who gives his all in training," he added.

"He is one of the most professional players I have known over the course of my career. He is truly a great player and a good friend."
...

Mirror

Cantona's Collars

They practice crossing & finishing,our wingers must go home early so.

Rayne Wooney

Fcuking crossing

onemorechance

...
Welbeck is at a loss to explain his side's poor form but says that they must improve and return to winning ways as soon as possible.

"I can understand why the fans are concerned," he told reporters. "We're not around the Champions League spots at the moment. We need to get our form back and just win the next matches.

"Losing three on the bounce is really not good enough and we want to put that right. I can't pinpoint one thing why this is happening. We were champions last season and we know that the consistency in our game has not been good enough.

"It's a new experience for us all but the main thing we have to do is look at the next game. We have to put it right but you can't look too far ahead. It's over 10 years since United lost three in a row so we know we have to turn it around and win the next match."

United take on Swansea at Old Trafford on Saturday, having already lost six times at home in the Premier League this season, and Welbeck says that victory is vital.

"It was very disappointing to go out of the FA Cup against Swansea and we have to rectify that," he added.

"The next match is the most important. It's Swansea and we have to get three points. We hope we will gather some momentum."

goal.com

Your Airbag

More transfer stuffs

Moyes unsure about Coentrao because he's a bad trainer and smokes. Real Madrid want rid of him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-manchester-united-cool-on-signing-real-madrids-smoking-workshy-fabio-coentrao-9047775.html

---

Danish newspaper clamis that we are interester in Vistor Fisher from Ajax

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/fodbold/udenlandsk_fodbold/international_fodbold/article2190287.ece

---

Apparently we are also interested in Moutinho from Monaco

http://www.givemesport.com/416625-manchester-united-eye-move-for-215m-monaco-star

He was awesome in the WC playoffs, I'll say that much

---

Madrid no longer need Gundogan after Alonso signs new deal.

http://thepeoplesperson.com/gundogans-move-to-united-now-more-likely-as-madrid-dont-need-him/

Madrid are like Bayern to me "buy all the MF's" so I don't see this stopping Madrid going for Gundogan. Khedira may be more gettable though.

Sebastian Rode will join Bayern Munich after a deal agreed today :rolleyes: How many MF's do they need.

---

We nearly signed Matic in the summer according to Jonathan Wilson. 26-year-old and named Player of the Year for the 2012/13 season.

Benfica intend to sell Nemanja Matic in the January transfer window to cash in on him as they have been knocked out of the Champions League, according to reports coming out of Portugal. [...] “All the word I got from people around Matic is that those negotiations have taken on a very serious shape so I think there’s every chance that deal could be resurrected because Benfica are a selling club.”

http://thepeoplesperson.com/united-nearly-signed-e30m-matic-in-summer-and-encouraged-to-try-again/

---

Maximus Alexander

Your Airbag wrote: »

I have heard a few things from match regular mates of mine regards a comment or too Moyes has said on the touchline which lead me to believe me he is not seeing enough on the pitch what he wants or instructs. I'm not going to day it on here as I have had a go at one or two others for "me mate told me" type stuff.

During the Spurs match I could very clearly hear Moyes bellowing instructions at Michael Carrick and another player (have totally forgotten who). I got the impression he was frustrated and they weren't in the positions he wanted them in.

MagicMarker

What are the odds we have someone signed and in the squad for Chelsea?

Whatsisname

Every single player we seemed to be linked with ends up having a story about how Moyes is "unsure" of them, I don't know whether I'm more frustrated at the probable lazy journalism or the fact I could see it being true

The_Kew_Tour

MagicMarker wrote: »

What are the odds we have someone signed and in the squad for Chelsea?

around 10/1