Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Pudsy33

Kagawa spent the vast majority of the game on the left side of a 4-4-2, dont know why people are being hard on him. Everyone was ****. Depressing stuff.

newballsplease

Slate the players all ye want. Them tactics tonight from the management team were f***king bollocks. Defending a 1-0 lead against sunderland.
Moyes has been doing this from the very start with Utd and look where its getting him. Conceding late goals like they are is mostly down to his negative tactics.
He needs to alter his style of play quickly or f**k off somewhere else. Ive had patience up until tonight.
That has completly turned me against Moyes now im sorry to say.

Nolars

The thing I dont get is I dont see what Moyes is trying to do, the football is so so bad we cannot pass the ball. We chop and change so much.

Saucy McKetchup

Giruilla wrote: »

:pac:

:pac:

I can do that too without giving any kind of intelligent answer

2moreMinutes

Just seen Carricks injury again. Doesn't look pretty at all. Gonna be even more pressure on Moyes now over the next week to get a midfielder in.

Saucy McKetchup

Nolars wrote: »

at home in a semi final in a game where we need to create and pass the ball. Good stuff play defensive game. typical Moyes.

Name someone else who you would have put in that starting line up

Giruilla

master-t wrote: »

Really? So in your opinion Kagawa had a good game? Jesus.


Have our standards dropped so low that we are now calling Kagawa's performance tonight 'good'?


I thought Carrick and Fletch had godd games. Linked Def to Attack, tracked back with their midfield, and broke up the play where possible.


I saw Kagawa over-hit passes, make runs into no-mans land, and offer very little in terms of an attacking threat.


Honestly, the tinted glasses need to come off at some stage.

All I can say is if you didn't see how intergral Kagawa was in linking several counter attacks in that game, you weren't watching it.

United were sh*t overall, and that blame is on Moyes, but Kagawa was keeping the ball, creating space and was developing play. Subbing him on for Valencia showed Moyes negativity lucidly.

Kerrydude1981

Kagawa wasn't great but at least he looked like creating something,thought it was a bit harsh to see him been hauled off but was not surprised either.

If Moyes is trying to sign Mata now and all these other players in the summer then playing his negative tactics at home has go out the window,at home to Sunderland Utd should be taking the game to them and trying to wrap it up in normal time and not be hanging on hoping for extra time.

Rayne Wooney

Giruilla wrote: »

All I can say is if you didn't see how intergral Kagawa was in linking several counter attacks in that game, you weren't watching it.

United were sh*t overall, and that blame is on Moyes, but Kagawa was keeping the ball, creating space and was developing play. Subbing him on for Valencia showed Moyes negativity lucidly.

+1

Saucy McKetchup

2moreMinutes wrote: »

Just seen Carricks injury again. Doesn't look pretty at all. Gonna be even more pressure on Moyes now over the next week to get a midfielder in.

Best thing about the match, now he has to sign a midfielder

Paully D

Hi lads,

I've received a few PM's from regulars on this thread and seem to be having a bit of difficulty replying (it seems that the game broke Boards!), so I just want to say thanks very much to those for the congratulatory messages so soon after that type of game and the way it finished. Very kind of you.

The_Kew_Tour

Few lads in Stretford end tonight texted me. Just got chatting about any possible transfer. The talk around seemed to be that another transfer could be on cards and that board are willing to get Moyes another player in if needed.

Few lads at the game on boards might say something tomorrow.

magnumbud

keeponhurling wrote: »

Honorable mention for De Gea's crapness too
(Although he usually is top drawer)

he had 1 thing to do all game and made a mistake which happens calling him crap tonight for it is a bit unfair he did save two of their penos too and his distribution was good

yabadabado wrote: »

Mata is a world class player and should be the start of a major rebuilding job.If United can get similar class players for LB and CM it is going to put them back in contention imo.Don't expect anything else to be done in January but a LB would be brilliant.

still holding out that we get coentrao on loan too for the rest of the season with an option to buy if it works out.

keeponhurling

Nolars wrote: »

The thing I dont get is I dont see what Moyes is trying to do, the football is so so bad we cannot pass the ball. We chop and change so much.

It's a good point, from watching the teams games, and seeing the teams selected and tactics (or lack of) used, it appears that he is clueless. Very hard to see any sense of direction even after 6 or 7 months in the job.

Perhaps he needs to talk to media more, let the fans know what the hell he is doing, or trying to do.
It might help to win him some patience.

Some if his team selections for example seem very random, has he even spoken about the reasons for playing A. Young last Sunday for example. ?

The_Kew_Tour

Paully D wrote: »

Hi lads,

I've received a few PM's from regulars on this thread and seem to be having a bit of difficulty replying (it seems that the game broke Boards!), so I just want to say thanks very much to those for the congratulatory messages so soon after that type of game and the way it finished. Very kind of you.

Get out!!!!:P

No seriously, well done. Im sure speak for most in that you're top poster and have been admirer of us in past.

Best of luck in final.

KH25

I wouldn't be surprised to see a bid put in for Cabaye.

Saucy McKetchup

Paully D wrote: »

Hi lads,

I've received a few PM's from regulars on this thread and seem to be having a bit of difficulty replying (it seems that the game broke Boards!), so I just want to say thanks very much to those for the congratulatory messages so soon after that type of game and the way it finished. Very kind of you.

Anyone want to enlighten me? Who dat?

user2011

Paully D wrote: »

Hi lads,

I've received a few PM's from regulars on this thread and seem to be having a bit of difficulty replying (it seems that the game broke Boards!), so I just want to say thanks very much to those for the congratulatory messages so soon after that type of game and the way it finished. Very kind of you.

Hopefully a Wigan-esque finish in the final for ya Paully. Enjoy it no matter what.:)

master-t

Giruilla wrote: »

All I can say is if you didn't see how intergral Kagawa was in linking several counter attacks in that game, you weren't watching it.

United were sh*t overall, and that blame is on Moyes, but Kagawa was keeping the ball, creating space and was developing play. Subbing him on for Valencia showed Moyes negativity lucidly.

Grand, I disagree completley on Kagawa. For me Kagawa had another below-par performance (Just to make it clear - I do not agree that A, Valencia was any better when he came on or Even Kagawa should have been subbed - I don't rate Young either so it's a lose-lose for me) but to say he played well? He didn't I don't think.





I thought Carrick and Fletch played decent though.

jamesbere

I hope that mistake from De gea doesn't affect his confidence going forward.

PhlegmyMoses

I don't feel overly bad about that match. This season has been so **** from a form perspective that a league cup win wouldn't have held a whole lot meaning. Let's win something when we're actually playing good football and earn some good fortune.

Rayne Wooney

Break the bank for Cabaye and Sandro or Shaw

Our season is going down the toilet at this rate

First FA cup
Now league cup
CL if we stay the same is next

And when we're out of all cups we'll still be 7th/6th in the league

PhlegmyMoses

jamesbere wrote: »

I hope that mistake from De gea doesn't affect his confidence going forward.

Doesn't seem like the sort. Got pilloried unfairly in his first season and kept coming back for more.

The_Kew_Tour

jamesbere wrote: »

I hope that mistake from De gea doesn't affect his confidence going forward.

He redeemed himself in shootout. I dont think it will.

His first bad mistake in 2 seasons for United. Schmeichel made about 5 a season. Although again he more than made up for it.

jonnyfingers

I just don't see the defensive tactics that other people are seeing. We played a standard 442 and Sunderland's midfield kept the ball better than we did and used their good wingers. That was the reason we defended deep at times. But Fletcher was kept quiet up front for most of he game and De Gea was not tested until his howler

For Extra time we set up to counter attack, which was the logical option, except Chico was ****ed and Wellbeck was anonymous.

Looking at the team that was out there I'm not sure what we could have done differently. Sunderland are effective on the wings so 352 wouldn't work well. Playing 1 up front and packing the midfield is "negative" and that would mean either Chico or Wellbeck alone up front, which neither are good at.

What we needed was a few Scholes like players who would have killed the game off and won the possession battle or a Keane like midfielder the would have won the midfield battle that cattermole and colbeck won against Fletcher and Carrick. Moyes had Kagawa as a number 10 for a significant amount of the game but it was ineffective, mainly because that meant Wellbeck was on the wing and the movement ahead of Kagawa wasn't great.

The current fit squad limits the use of any fantastic tactics. So to the posters who are unhappy with the tactics, what would you have done differently?

Pro. F

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Anyone want to enlighten me? Who dat?

Resident Sunderland fan and sound poster.

Lord TSC

jonnyfingers wrote: »

I just don't see the defensive tactics that other people are seeing.....
...For Extra time we set up to counter attack...

In order to counter attack, you generally have to drop deep, inviting the pressure on to yourself so when they make a mistake, you take advantage of how high up they are. So if you can see we're "set up to counter attack", then THAT is a form of a defensive tactic.

goodolegill

oh my god!! did moyes really give this quote prematch

"Our aim is to win tonight or at worst be 1-0 ahead after 90 minutes to take it to extra time." against sunderland at home :O

Roy hodgson in disguise

TheFullDuck

jamesbere wrote: »

I hope that mistake from De gea doesn't affect his confidence going forward.

We'd be a lot worse of this season without him. He was chatting to AL and Woods just before the shootout so I'd imagine they both reassured him and built back up the small bit of confidence he may have lost.

irishfeen

goodolegill wrote: »

oh my god!! did moyes really give this quote prematch

"Our aim is to win tonight or at worst be 1-0 ahead after 90 minutes to take it to extra time." against sunderland at home :O

Roy hodgson in disguise

What did you expect the man to say? I heard him on sky and he said the team deserved to loose.

jonnyfingers

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

In order to counter attack, you generally have to drop deep, inviting the pressure on to yourself so when they make a mistake, you take advantage of how high up they are. So if you can see we're "set up to counter attack", then THAT is a form of a defensive tactic.

Yes, in extra time when we were effectively a goal ahead and Sunderland needed to push up the pitch with two central defenders who lack pace. That was a logical decision, the only problem was that would have been the ideal time to bring on fresh legs, like Chico off the bench normally but we couldn't do that.

The other option was to attack like crazy and risk concerning a goal.

So that's not defensive tactics it's logical tactics.

Technophobe

All round, sickening to lose to Sunderland....CL last 16 match will probably be the next meltdown.... Can't see how we can go from a Premiership winning team to being this toothless....

bucketybuck

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

That's because they are not creative midfielders, they're defensive midfielders.

Remember when people were able to be just midfielders?

I blame Makelele. Now people who 20 years would simply be called limited footballers get to justify their lack of ability by claiming they shouldn't have to do half the job they should be doing.

"Oh we were rubbish going forward? Not my fault mate, I'm just the defensive midfielder, I don't go forward."

Paul Tergat

There are a couple of things really pissing me off at the moment.

Firstly its the negative way that United are playing. We don't put teams to the sword. I've lost count the number of times I've said for us to kick on when we are in front. Against 85% of teams, higher at home, when we are in front we should be going for the kill and not hanging on. This has barely happened all season. There's no excuse for it and the blame lies at the managers door.

Having said that, there are also a lot of players who are simply not showing up. We see quotes from our players saying they need to step up but who is? Other than Adnan there seems to be way too little effort from players who have an awful lot of experience. They should take a long hard look at themselves. Its a privilege to play for this club and too many players are showing no desire, no guts and generally a **** attitude.


The Mata news is positive and a nice sign of intent. It'll mean very little though if we don't change the way we are approaching games and the players currently at the club continue to hide from their responsibility.


/rant

Paul Tergat

bucketybuck wrote: »

Remember when people were able to be just midfielders?

I blame Makelele. Now people who 20 years would simply be called limited footballers get to justify their lack of ability by claiming they shouldn't have to do half the job they should be doing.

"Oh we were rubbish going forward? Not my fault mate, I'm just the defensive midfielder, I don't go forward."

Specialisation is not necessarily a bad thing

jonnyfingers

What im really unhappy about is Zaha not getting a run out instead of Valencia he would have been perfect on the counter attack tonight. What's going on with him, has he gone on loan?

Lord TSC

jonnyfingers wrote: »

Yes, in extra time when we were effectively a goal ahead and Sunderland needed to push up the pitch with two central defenders who lack pace. That was a logical decision, the only problem was that would have been the ideal time to bring on fresh legs, like Chico off the bench normally but we couldn't do that.

The other option was to attack like crazy and risk concerning a goal.

So that's not defensive tactics it's logical tactics.

In Old Trafford, against 19th place Sunderland, we should be on the attack. Should be constant pressure and attempts at goal. We shouldn't be scoring once and then retreating for fear of conceding a goal. That's a small team mentality.

At 1-0 up, Moyes took off our creative midfielder and threw on Valencia, a player who (being nice) is far more defensive than attacking nowadays. He dropped the team back, and stopped trying to score goals unless it was on a counter attack.

There's a balance to be found, granted. But we sat back and sat back and let Sunderland have a lot of the posession outside our box, as we've done many times this year, and once again, got burnt badly.

Giruilla

Montroseee wrote: »

Mata is a world class player and will instantly make a difference. This is an unbelievable signing and should provide a huge boost for players and fans. With Kagawa it's just excuse after excuse, anyway now is a time to rejoice as we've prob just acquired one of the best players in the league.

Moyes has forced an insistance on united to play wide football with players who can't hit the ball past the first defender. Under him, United have - after 7 months - shown no desire to play creative central football, even after signing a CM and Cleverly (a 'creative' midfielder) getting so much game time that its hard to believe its really happening. What is Mata going to instantly bring to that equation?

wonderfullife

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Break the bank for Cabaye and Sandro or Shaw

Our season is going down the toilet at this rate

First FA cup
Now league cup
CL if we stay the same is next

And when we're out of all cups we'll still be 7th/6th in the league

Honestly forget the CL. Won't be happening.

You need a mini-collapse from ALL of the below:

Spurs
Everton
Liverpool

One or even two collapsing, fair enough, but not all 3.

And anyway even if they all collapse it assumes Utd can put on a good run under Moyes.....CL is gone.

jonnyfingers wrote: »

I just don't see the defensive tactics that other people are seeing. We played a standard 442 and Sunderland's midfield kept the ball better than we did and used their good wingers. That was the reason we defended deep at times. But Fletcher was kept quiet up front for most of he game and De Gea was not tested until his howler

For Extra time we set up to counter attack, which was the logical option, except Chico was ****ed and Wellbeck was anonymous.

Looking at the team that was out there I'm not sure what we could have done differently. Sunderland are effective on the wings so 352 wouldn't work well. Playing 1 up front and packing the midfield is "negative" and that would mean either Chico or Wellbeck alone up front, which neither are good at.

What we needed was a few Scholes like players who would have killed the game off and won the possession battle or a Keane like midfielder the would have won the midfield battle that cattermole and colbeck won against Fletcher and Carrick. Moyes had Kagawa as a number 10 for a significant amount of the game but it was ineffective, mainly because that meant Wellbeck was on the wing and the movement ahead of Kagawa wasn't great.

The current fit squad limits the use of any fantastic tactics. So to the posters who are unhappy with the tactics, what would you have done differently?

I'll tell you what i'd have done:

1. Not start with (effectively) 2 holding midfielders in Carrick and Fletcher against Sunderland. At HOME.

2. Not sit back and defend for 75 minutes (from half time til the end of extra time) against SUNDERLAND at HOME. Did i mention this was Sunderland at home yet.

3. With the game on a knife-edge, not brought on another defensive midfielder when Carrick went off. Brought on Giggs or hell even Young, someone who could either a) pick out a killer pass or b) stretch the Sunderland defence and have them running backwards.

Bringing on Jones and invite 25 mins more pressure??? After being totally outplayed for the previous 60 minutes?

Saucy McKetchup

bucketybuck wrote: »

Remember when people were able to be just midfielders?

I blame Makelele. Now people who 20 years would simply be called limited footballers get to justify their lack of ability by claiming they shouldn't have to do half the job they should be doing.

"Oh we were rubbish going forward? Not my fault mate, I'm just the defensive midfielder, I don't go forward."

Agree but that was before the European passing game became the way to play football, gone are the days of a box to box midfielder or a central midfielder.
We need to sign someone who can play as a defensive yet creative midfielder, we don't have one of those.

bucketybuck

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

We need to sign someone who can play as defensive yet creative midfielder, we don't have one of those.

Yep, but lets get another attacker instead, see if that works.

wonderfullife

The thing is, all of Moyes tactical decisions tonight would have been perfect if he was the manager of West Brom or Barnsley or MK Dons.....

You're at home against Sunderland, knowing 1-0 is ok ultimately, so you sit back soak up pressure and hope to cling on. Knowing Sunderland are a better side and probably fitter.

It's a mentality thing. He STILL doesn't seem to realise he's managing Manchester United.

GSPfan

bucketybuck wrote: »

Remember when people were able to be just midfielders?

I blame Makelele. Now people who 20 years would simply be called limited footballers get to justify their lack of ability by claiming they shouldn't have to do half the job they should be doing.

"Oh we were rubbish going forward? Not my fault mate, I'm just the defensive midfielder, I don't go forward."

I kinda promised myself not to post in here anymore but this post is like it's coming out of my own mouth. Spot on. Makelele was the start of that sh1t and it boils my blood to this day when I hear Defensive midfielder and Attacking midfielder. It's a license to be bad at one or the other.

Saucy McKetchup

goodolegill wrote: »

oh my god!! did moyes really give this quote prematch

"Our aim is to win tonight or at worst be 1-0 ahead after 90 minutes to take it to extra time." against sunderland at home :O

Roy hodgson in disguise

No he didn't say that

Saucy McKetchup

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yep, but lets get another attacker instead, see if that works.

None of the players we need are available til the summer so might as well sign mata

Whatsisname

jonnyfingers wrote: »

What im really unhappy about is Zaha not getting a run out instead of Valencia he would have been perfect on the counter attack tonight. What's going on with him, has he gone on loan?

After watching him in the u21's the other night, he's a long, long way off the first team.

Dicky Pride

This has probably been one of the most embarrassing nights in the club's history. They played like a team of boys. There wasn't a single leader on that team and that's one of the most significant things that was missing.

Moyes continues to worry me, despite the fact that he says he has a clear vision for the future of the club. Strange substitutions again tonight.

The penalties have the be the worst part though...forget about this nonsense about penalty takers and non penalty takers...it's trying to score a go, with no defenders to worry about, from 12 yards. Jones was odds on to miss his, he looked so stupid walking up to take it.

We are the laughing stock of the soccer world right now, and rightly so.

jonnyfingers

wonderfullife wrote: »

Honestly forget the CL. Won't be happening.

You need a mini-collapse from ALL of the below:

Spurs
Everton
Liverpool

One or even two collapsing, fair enough, but not all 3.

And anyway even if they all collapse it assumes Utd can put on a good run under Moyes.....CL is gone.


I'll tell you what i'd have done:

1. Not start with (effectively) 2 holding midfielders in Carrick and Fletcher against Sunderland. At HOME.

2. Not sit back and defend for 75 minutes (from half time til the end of extra time) against SUNDERLAND at HOME. Did i mention this was Sunderland at home yet.

3. With the game on a knife-edge, not brought on another defensive midfielder when Carrick went off. Brought on Giggs or hell even Young, someone who could either a) pick out a killer pass or b) stretch the Sunderland defence and have them running backwards.

Bringing on Jones and invite 25 mins more pressure??? After being totally outplayed for the previous 60 minutes?

I know but in Moyes defense Carrick and Fletcher are currently the best two fit midfielders at the club so worth starting with tgem

I would have loved Kagawa to have played a blinder but he didn't. I agree it was a bit early to make the change but things were not working.

I thought Jones was the best option. I do agree that Young would have been a good shout moving Adnan into the middle but I think we would have been completely overrun in the middle and under even more pressure.

Look I know the tactics aren't great but the players available are a big part of that. If Moyes ends up with a team of quality players and still plays 442 and pick a Valencia then I'll be the first to call home out on it.

What I will say is i don't think Moyes can get the best out of the poor squad we have at the moment and I think he does lack the tactical savvy some other managers have in those situations. That is a worry. But I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season and until he's had his best players consistently available.

My gut feel is he's not the long term successor to Ferguson but hopefully he can steady the ship between now and the end of the season.

Right I'm too depressed to stay awake anymore so I'll chat to you all in the morning! Hopefully we'll have some good news for a change.

Paul Tergat

Dicky Pride wrote: »

This has probably been one of the most embarrassing nights in the club's history. They played like a team of boys. There wasn't a single leader on that team and that's one of the most significant things that was missing.

Moyes continues to worry me, despite the fact that he says he has a clear vision for the future of the club. Strange substitutions again tonight.

The penalties have the be the worst part though...forget about this nonsense about penalty takers and non penalty takers...it's trying to score a go, with no defenders to worry about, from 12 yards. Jones was odds on to miss his, he looked so stupid walking up to take it.

We are the laughing stock of the soccer world right now, and rightly so.

Agree with a lot of this but I just wanna say at least Jones had the balls to step up. He always shows commitment and I think he will continue building character. If only we could get him pinned down to CB and stop needing him to plug CM holes

Dicky Pride

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Agree with a lot of this but I just wanna say at least Jones had the balls to step up. He always shows commitment and I think he will continue building character. If only we could get him pinned down to CB and stop needing him to plug CM holes

I understand what you're saying but they are professional footballers and it was the semi final of the league cup, not the champions league final. Any player who chickens out of taking a penalty in that situation should be packing their bags.