Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Schwiiing

wonderfullife wrote: »

+1

It's amazing but out of all the excuses and defences for Moyes the only strong excuse remaining is "sacking managers isn't the Manchester United way".

Well finishing trophyless, out of the champions league and close to mid-table isn't the Utd way either.

I seriously don't get the big deal with sacking him. Everybody can make a mistake. Utd made a big one appointing him. Sack him, come out and hold their hands up saying they got it wrong. Take the time until the summer to get it right.

You don't sign a manager with a view to him being there for 10 years.

You sign a manager with a view to him being successful thereby staying a long time.

It's always success first, longevity to follow.

Wenger wouldn't be still at Arsenal other than the enormous success he brought Arsenal 1997-2005. He earned longevity.

Fergie earned it too.

Tim Sherwood has it spot on. He says it straight up it's about winning football matches pure and simple. Win and you stay in your role. Don't and you're out. Very simple.

As long as SAF is on the board Moyes will stay unless United go into financial freefall from lack of CL money. Personally I'd love to see Moyes gone in the summer and just write off this season altogether. As to who would replace him, Jurgen Klopp could do a much better job.

Devil08

wonderfullife wrote: »

+1

It's amazing but out of all the excuses and defences for Moyes the only strong excuse remaining is "sacking managers isn't the Manchester United way".

Well finishing trophyless, out of the champions league and close to mid-table isn't the Utd way either.

I seriously don't get the big deal with sacking him. Everybody can make a mistake. Utd made a big one appointing him. Sack him, come out and hold their hands up saying they got it wrong. Take the time until the summer to get it right.

You don't sign a manager with a view to him being there for 10 years.

You sign a manager with a view to him being successful thereby staying a long time.

It's always success first, longevity to follow.

Wenger wouldn't be still at Arsenal other than the enormous success he brought Arsenal 1997-2005. He earned longevity.

Fergie earned it too.

Tim Sherwood has it spot on. He says it straight up it's about winning football matches pure and simple. Win and you stay in your role. Don't and you're out. Very simple.

Why is Wenger still at arsenal then? Because the board see faith in him to build something over years and work towards winning something. Which he is still trying to do. I don't buy the crapp that he's only still in the job because he did well 10 years ago.
Moyes is being given the trust and time to do the same, build a team and work towards success

Cypher_sounds

Sign Mata for £37m and we don't get a CL spot then moyes is gone i have no doubt about that.
He will sink or swim under the weight of such a pricey signing.

Devil08

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Sign Mata for £37m and we don't get a CL spot then moyes is gone i have no doubt about that.
He will sink or swim under the weight of such a pricey signing.

Rubbish. Moyes would have told the board he needs 3 or 4 big signings to get near the top again. He needs 2 more big signings after mata before he can be judged in any way

The_Kew_Tour

I wonder is there any clause in Moyes contract where if he dont get CL football he can be left go etc?

Surely?:o

Schwiiing

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Sign Mata for £37m and we don't get a CL spot then moyes is gone i have no doubt about that.
He will sink or swim under the weight of such a pricey signing.

Mata alone won't get us a CL spot with our defensive problems. Rio and Vidic are finished, Evra knows he's gone in the summer and can't be bothered, Buttner is clueless and Rafael always looks a brainfart away from a red card. I have some hope for Smalling and Jones at CB.

Cypher_sounds

Devil08 wrote: »

Rubbish. Moyes would have told the board he needs 3 or 4 big signings to get near the top again. He needs 2 more big signings after mata before he can be judged in any way

I am not sure the board are too impressed with his management thus far, i think we will sign another player during this transfer window so that along with the £65m spent on Mata and Fellaini would warrant at least a CL spot.

If performances continue as they are their should be no other option other than sacking. It is just not good enough over a season to see little to no improvement of performance by the team, no matter who he picks the level of performance has stayed the same.

Cypher_sounds

Schwiiing wrote: »

Mata alone won't get us a CL spot with our defensive problems. Rio and Vidic are finished, Evra knows he's gone in the summer and can't be bothered, Buttner is clueless and Rafael always looks a brainfart away from a red card. I have some hope for Smalling and Jones at CB.

Who is going to sort out our defensive problems? Doesn't look like the coaches that have been brought in are up to much in that regard.
We have a good enough defence apart from lb which everyone knows. Ferdinand can still do a job till the end of the season if required and Vidic aint finished. So along with Evans Smalling and even Jones our defence shouldn't be as bad as it has been.
Mata wont solve our midfield problems either.

wonderfullife

Devil08 wrote: »

Why is Wenger still at arsenal then? Because the board see faith in him to build something over years and work towards winning something. Which he is still trying to do. I don't buy the crapp that he's only still in the job because he did well 10 years ago.
Moyes is being given the trust and time to do the same, build a team and work towards success

Wenger gave them good reason to have faith. He won shed loads of trophies for the club. So they had good cause to stick by him through the transition from Highbury to the Emirates which was always going to take at least 5 years to come good given the £400 million outlay on the stadium.

Moyes has won nothing for anyone to deserve the same faith.

Jesus Wept

United will need to go on title winning form to pick up 4th place at this rate. Not saying it can't be done, however if any of Liverpool, Spurs or Everton maintain a 2 points per game ratio (as they are all close to having done thus far), then united will need to get 2.33 points per game.

Arsenal with 22 games and 51 games currently have a ratio of 2.31 points per game.

I suppose United do still have to play Liverpool and Everton, but not Spurs.

Will I Amnt

Our Year wrote: »

United will need to go on title winning form to pick up 4th place at this rate. Not saying it can't be done, however if any of Liverpool, Spurs or Everton maintain a 2 points per game ratio (as they are all close to having done thus far), then united will need to get 2.33 points per game.

Arsenal with 22 games and 51 games currently have a ratio of 2.31 points per game.

I suppose United do still have to play Liverpool and Everton, but not Spurs.

6 points off 4th. F**k that ratio shìt.

The_Kew_Tour

Our Year wrote: »

United will need to go on title winning form to pick up 4th place at this rate. Not saying it can't be done, however if any of Liverpool, Spurs or Everton maintain a 2 points per game ratio (as they are all close to having done thus far), then united will need to get 2.33 points per game.

Arsenal with 22 games and 51 games currently have a ratio of 2.31 points per game.

I suppose United do still have to play Liverpool and Everton, but not Spurs.

Sadly I think you're right.

Still much to play for, but United need to go on a 6-7 game winning streak. That in itself seems so difficult to see happening when you seen us this month alone.

wonderfullife

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Sadly I think you're right.

Still much to play for, but United need to go on a 6-7 game winning streak. That in itself seems so difficult to see happening when you seen us this month alone.

The next 8 games in theory are a good set of fixtures. The likes of Fulham and Cardiff at home, Palace away, Stoke away....but then again there's also Arsenal away, and City & Liverpool at home....which in any other season would be opportunities rather than headaches.

Given the way of things, it's likely to be more turmoil with dropped points away to Stoke, maybe even Palace away and pastings off City and Arsenal....

It's an absolute necessity to take 6 points out of the Cardiff and Fulham games though. There's no excuse for less than 6 points at home to those 2.

Agueroooo

Discodog wrote: »

I have never wanted us to lose but I did tonight.

.

Waahaaay that's the spirit !

Giggsy11

Horrible performance and players should be ashamed of themselves after the series of performances like that. I was not really sad about getting knocked out in semi finals at all, I was more like "Yes we will sign Mata and it will give us the lift we needed so badly".

This might be way too early and we might end up with eggs on our faces for discussing this. Can Mata take #8 in Jan or he can't as it was Anderson was registered with that number?

duffman13

Woke up this morning and realised last night wasnt a nightmare. Signing Mata today will help me feel a little better. Mata AND Vidal today will cheer me up substantially and all will be forgiven

dixiefly

RasTa wrote: »

Poor Jan was balling walking down the tunnel. However he was awful tonight, very selfish. Kagawa was useless and Hernandez should be banned from touching the ball unless its in the box. Having a last beer in the hotel with some sunderland fans. Can't understand a word but they are good craic

Is that idiotic "The Chosen One" banner still being displayed?

It was a dig at Mourinho that has backfired.

Best to confine it to the dustbin of history.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/this-picture-sums-up-manchester-united-at-the-moment/

dixiefly

Whatsisname wrote: »

Can people not realise signing one player cannot solve all our problems in the team? Its really not that hard to understand that a player or two will more than likely be signed for each weakness in our squad by the time Moyes or whoever is done changing it to what they want. We're not signing Mata to be our cutting edge attacking midfielder, our box to box midfielder and our left back.

While signing Mata is great news I can't help thinking it is partly because he is available now and not playing the position that needs replacing with highest priority, I.e. CM. Not too unlike Fellani situation. Let's hope that Mata can show his class on the pitch and help raise spirits in the dressing room.

Dicky Pride

To those berating the chap saying the he hoped we'd lose...by extra time, I felt the same.

It was old Trafford against Sunderland. After the goal (which took too long in coming) we should have pushed on and got a couple more. Why is it that this Utd team need to go a goal down before they can manage to pull one back? The match going to extra time was an embarrassing joke and at that point, even though we were making them look good, Sunderland deserved to go through.

To get through a league cup final against Sunderland on away goals would have been almost as embarrassing as getting knocked out.

As for those penalties...personally I'd be expecting to hear an apology from those players very soon.

ronjo

alchemist33 wrote: »

The only player I fancied to score in the shootout was Fletcher. It's about confidence and balls and I just knew Welbeck, Jones, Raf and Jan (who was fantastic otherwise) would fail.

Hello Captain Hindsight

Agueroooo

Man Utd might deserve Mata but does Moyes??

Looking at some of the tactical changes and subs last night had me smiling as a rival fan

and Hernadez goal was pure player power and they just played that phase like the way they wanted.

I defended the guy believe it or not but now think he is out of his dept.

Dicky Pride

Also, as nice and all that the mata transfer is, it just proves that mourinho doesn't rate the team anymore and certainly doesn't consider us as challengers for the next few years.

Giggsy11

Interesting article by Marcotti.

Unpacking the reported Juan Mata, Man Utd deal

Two: Another idiocy going viral is the idea that because David Moyes lacks Sir Alex Ferguson's charisma, they'll face all sort of problems attracting players to the club.

Let's get this straight. The idea that top footballers will look at Moyes and scrunch up their noses is folly. Unless there's a prior history there (good or bad), the identity of the manager is at the bottom of their list of criteria, well behind salary, length of contract, prestige of the club -- and, in this case, it's still Manchester United and the Premier League and 75,000-plus fans at Old Trafford every week -- and playing opportunities.

Probably in that order, in fact.

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/11843?cc=3436

dixiefly

Dicky Pride wrote: »

To those berating the chap saying the he hoped we'd lose...by extra time, I felt the same.

It was old Trafford against Sunderland. After the goal (which took too long in coming) we should have pushed on and got a couple more. Why is it that this Utd team need to go a goal down before they can manage to pull one back? The match going to extra time was an embarrassing joke and at that point, even though we were making them look good, Sunderland deserved to go through.

To get through a league cup final against Sunderland on away goals would have been almost as embarrassing as getting knocked out.

As for those penalties...personally I'd be expecting to hear an apology from those players very soon.

I would be very interested in knowing how they prepared for the possibility of penalties considering the team selection for last nights game. It should have been a significant consideration in the lead up to the game.

Lovely Bloke

the hard-on for Kagawa in this thread is hitting ridiculous levels.

From half-time onwards, Kagawa was anonymous, and was rightly hooked.

kstand

To be honest about it, thats as good as that bunch of players that were on the pitch last night are. Why oh why do they persist with danny Welbeck - shows how bad England are when he gets games for them. The squad needs a total shake up and the players who are injured to return. Young, Welbeck, Valencia etc - out the door imediately. Was talking to a good mate who was at Chelsea on Sunday - said he cant remember a worse leading line in his lifetime than Young, Welbeck and Valencia were on Sunday and he's just turned 50.

The Mata signing is a silver lining and hopefully there's another one or two coming becuase the time to do business is now. That bunch of players that wore the shirt last night should be ashamed and all offer to take a 10% pay cut for that performance.

Saucy McKetchup

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Can Mata take #8 in Jan or he can't as it was Anderson was registered with that number?

Yeah it's available now along with 7 and 9

Giggsy11

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Yeah it's available now along with 7 and 9

I would love to see Januzaj getting #7 next season and Mata #11 when Giggs retires.

NeVeR

The champions of the Premier League missing 4 out of 5 peno's - it's a total joke.

Lord TSC

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

From half-time onwards, Kagawa was anonymous, and was rightly hooked.

From half time onwards, Moyes seemed quite content to stop going for a second goal, and obviously instructed the team to sit back and defend. So no shocker that our key creative player for the first half disappeared. If you're told to sit back, obviously you disappear.

gosplan

Mata's a weird signing.

Don't get me wrong. Defo the right thing to do and a great player but I can't see how you can shape a first 11.

I mean it HAS to include Mata, Rooney, RVP and maybe Jan.

Doing that basically goes the exact opposite and means no wing play ever. Or you could stick Mata and Jan on the wings and try to win every game 4-3.

Gonna be interesting.

Wouldn't be all that surprised if Rooney goes and the future of Man U is Mata behind RVP, then Costa or someone.

In fact the way Chelsea have parted with Mata so easily makes me wonder about Rooney going there this summer.

I mean I know Jose isn't a Mata fan but aside from helping his rivals, what happens now if Oscar/Hazard get injured. Beyond Schurlle, is there anyone?

AND as a rival fan, if Jose did something to seemingly help me, I'd be very suspicious.

Saucy McKetchup

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I would love to see Januzaj getting #7 next season and Mata #11 when Giggs retires.

Yeah at least januzaj won't let the pressure of the no. 7 jersey go to his head unlinke some other winger we won't name

Dicky Pride

He doesn't see us as a threat anymore. And rightly so. Man Utd under moyes can be summed up in one word - toothless.

Giggsy11

gosplan wrote: »

Mata's a weird signing.

Don't get me wrong. Defo the right thing to do and a great player but I can't see how you can shape a first 11.

I mean it HAS to include Mata, Rooney, RVP and maybe Jan.

Doing that basically goes the exact opposite and means no wing play ever. Or you could stick Mata and Jan on the wings and try to win every game 4-3.

Gonna be interesting.

Wouldn't be all that surprised if Rooney goes and the future of Man U is Mata behind RVP, then Costa or someone.

In fact the way Chelsea have parted with Mata so easily makes me wonder about Rooney going there this summer.

I mean I know Jose isn't a Mata fan but aside from helping his rivals, what happens now if Oscar/Hazard get injured. Beyond Schurlle, is there anyone?

AND as a rival fan, if Jose did something to seemingly help me, I'd be very suspicious.

Jose is not giving us Mata for free, we are paying nearly 40 Million for him. Not sure how that is "Jose helping us". We are breaking the bank for their bench player and they think it's a good price for their back up player.

FutureGuy

NeVeR wrote: »

The champions of the Premier League missing 4 out of 5 peno's - it's a total joke.

And 4-5 of their penalty takers.

average_runner

FutureGuy wrote: »

And 4-5 of their penalty takers.

They are professional players, so they should be able to pass, take corners, headers and take pens!! Paid enough

supersean1999

Agueroooo wrote: »

Man Utd might deserve Mata but does Moyes??

Looking at some of the tactical changes and subs last night had me smiling as a rival fan

and Hernadez goal was pure player power and they just played that phase like the way they wanted.

I defended the guy believe it or not but now think he is out of his dept.

Hard to take you serious in a utd forum with your user name and then a line like last night had me smiling as a rival fan. Not sure what you add in here on a daily basis. Your a bit obvious in all fairness.

Lovely Bloke

average_runner wrote: »

They are professional players, so they should be able to pass, take corners, headers and take pens!! Paid enough

lol

Lord TSC

supersean1999 wrote: »

Hard to take you serious in a utd forum with your user name and then a line like last night had me smiling as a rival fan. Not sure what you add in here on a daily basis. Your a bit obvious in all fairness.

In fairness, while he might be a little biased some time, he often can get the view of the outsider looking in spot on...

FutureGuy

average_runner wrote: »

They are professional players, so they should be able to pass, take corners, headers and take pens!! Paid enough

I'm really not sure if you are taking the p!ss with that comment??? Firstly, I am discussing penalties, not corners, headers or the ability to win a toin coss.

Secondly, United would have players who are better at penalties than others. Van Persie, Rooney, Giggs, Carrick, Anderson (yeah that's right), probably Kagawa, Hernandez (too cramped) and others.

All of those players would be before some of the lads that had to take a penalty.

Dicky Pride

Why is he taking the piss. He's spot on. Every pro should be able to score a penalty. Or at the very least make the keeper work

intellectual dosser

No one can defend a professional footballer missing the target or not making the keeper work. Rafael had a mare last night and shouldn't have taken the final 'lifesaving' penalty, I don't know why Valencia didn't take one of his bullet shots.

Delboy5

Saw this last night....

Mike Keegan‏@mikekeeganmen
I'd be surprised if, from what I heard, Mata was the only business #mufc did this window. #mufc

Leftist

just please sack him.

Maximus Alexander

Just a friendly reminder this morning to keep those hopes down nice and low: United will not sign Mata.

n32

supersean1999 wrote: »

Hard to take you serious in a utd forum with your user name and then a line like last night had me smiling as a rival fan. Not sure what you add in here on a daily basis. Your a bit obvious in all fairness.

A liverpool fan who has a username of agueroooo says it all really doesnt it!

supersean1999

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

In fairness, while he might be a little biased some time, he often can get the view of the outsider looking in spot on...

Ya but in all fairness it's quiet easy see through him. Everything he says u just know what he really thinks but he tries to hide it. It's not a big deal just saying

ericzeking

Penalties have almost nothing to do with technical ability, it's a mental thing.

The guys who stepped up last night and fair play to them, are not penalty takers so not only are they doing something they don't normally do, they are doing it in the most stressful of situations.

Players are humans regardless of how much they get paid, they get nervous.

MagicIRL

If Rooney goes in the Summer then United will need to buy a CM, a LB, a LW (Assuming Young is sold) and a Striker (Welbeck just isn't up to it and for whatever reason Moyes does not want Hernandez to start consistantly)

intellectual dosser

Are there any early predictions emerging on Carrick?