Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Maximus Alexander

ericzeking wrote: »

Penalties have almost nothing to do with technical ability, it's a mental thing.

The guys who stepped up last night and fair play to them, are not penalty takers so not only are they doing something they don't normally do, they are doing it in the most stressful of situations.

Players are humans regardless of how much they get paid, they get nervous.

Spot on, every one of those players - hell even De Gea - would bury 9/10 penalties in training. It's got nothing to do with skill. It's all about composure.

NTMK

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Are there any early predictions emerging on Carrick?

3 weeks from what ive heard but could be a bit more:(

Soldie

We really, urgently need to sort out our midfield. This transfer window. Every game they get played off the park and the match passes them by. There's rarely an outlet for the man on the ball, there's no off-the-ball movement, nobody willing to take the ball up the pitch, and, excluding Jones, nobody who can put in a tackle. The end result is seeing our defenders hoofing the ball up the pitch and non-entities like Valencia and Young doing fúck all on the wing. Fúcking Colback was running the show last night like he was Xavi in his prime - it's embarrassing. Can anyone remember the last time Utd actually played well for a few games on the trot?

average_runner

FutureGuy wrote: »

I'm really not sure if you are taking the p!ss with that comment??? Firstly, I am discussing penalties, not corners, headers or the ability to win a toin coss.

Secondly, United would have players who are better at penalties than others. Van Persie, Rooney, Giggs, Carrick, Anderson (yeah that's right), probably Kagawa, Hernandez (too cramped) and others.

All of those players would be before some of the lads that had to take a penalty.

If your a professional player, you can take pens, simple as.

intellectual dosser

NTMK wrote: »

3 weeks from what ive heard but could be a bit more:(

Terrible news going into the three games that will make or break our effort for 4th, just when I thought we would be getting Rooney, RVP, Fellaini and Mata into the side we get knocked back. How effective will those guys be with Cleverley pulling strings in midfield.

Kerrydude1981

The way Utd played last night in that second half of normal it made Traps Ireland look like Barcelona.

Still have the attacking power when all fit and when they are fit hopefully the manager will change his style of play going forward.

Utd sitting back at home makes no sense at all.

supersean1999

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Are there any early predictions emerging on Carrick?

I think it's safe to say at this stage he never quiet replaced Roy Keane. But he has done good.;)

ericzeking

average_runner wrote: »

If your a professional player, you can take pens, simple as.

Funny that fans expect players to 'care' about the club they support and yet when it suits them i.e a penalty shootout, those self same players are supposed to be emotionless.

jonnyfingers

Serious question for everyone. Would any manager be able to achieve long term success with the current squad or will they need to do a significant clear out and sign plenty of new players?

I'm pretty sure it's the latter and wouldn't mind Moyes having the chance in the summer. Even if he's not the best manager tactically I do think he has a good eye for decent players. So I'd be happy for him to get rid of most of the squad and rebuild it with players he chooses himself. If it then took a year or two for them all to gel together would the fans allow for that? I assume the proviso would be that we get top 4 each of those seasons.

Or would you rather Moyes be shown the door and get someone else in to rebuild the team?

kstand

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

The way Utd played last night in that second half of normal it made Traps Ireland look like Barcelona.

Still have the attacking power when all fit and when they are fit hopefully the manager will change his style of play going forward.

Utd sitting back at home makes no sense at all.

I dont think the manager can be attributed all the blame on that one. That was a more or less full strength Sunderland side under a good manager - where we are now we cant afford to be missing anyone, having to rely on the likes of Welbeck etc.

Lord TSC

jonnyfingers wrote: »

Or would you rather Moyes be shown the door and get someone else in to rebuild the team?

This, for me.

I personally feel Moyes could have Ronaldo, Messi and a host of others right now, and would still be going ultra-negative when we go 1-0 up. His tactics just have me wanting him gone at any cost right now, and think there's no point bringing in great players to play in the useless system he has us in right now.

dixiefly

MagicIRL wrote: »

If Rooney goes in the Summer then United will need to buy a CM, a LB, a LW (Assuming Young is sold) and a Striker (Welbeck just isn't up to it and for whatever reason Moyes does not want Hernandez to start consistantly)

After last night I can fully understand why Hernandez is not a first choice.

Poor poor effort in et when sent through by Januzaj. And the goal he scored he nearly put the ball over the bar only that it was easier to score. I used to think he had a future leading the line but realised early enough on that there is something missing with him that means he wont be a consistent top level striker.

jonnyfingers

To attempt to defend the penalties last night:

De Gea - did his job and saved a few. Not a likely candidate for taking one.
Evra - Should have taken one but didn't step up
Evans - Defender not known for his striking skills
Smalling - Same as Evans
Rafael - Has guts and stepped up, doesn't take a great peno unfortunately
Jones - He could have gurned at the ball and it might have had a better chance of going in. Again he stepped up but his miss was always likely
Fletcher - the only one of the five I fancied to score
Valencia - Should have taken one but didn't step up
Januzaj - Stepped up, tried his best, it wasn't to be. Expected better though but tiredness may have been a factor
Wellbeck - Should be scoring as a striker
Chico - Should have taken one but seemed to be injured, possibly due to sliding as part of his goal celebration which is stupid if true
Carrick - Subbed but probably would have taken one if still on pitch
Kagawa - Subbed but probably would have taken one if still on pitch


I think penalties is as much confidence as it is ball striking skill so out of those 11 I would have went for Chico, Wellbeck, Januzaj, Fletcher and Evra. As Chico was injured I would liked Valencia to take one. Jones and Rafael would have been next. So Evra and Valencia didn't step up for whatever reason which pushed Jones and Rafael. And you have to admit that's not a lineup that would fill the opposition with fear. But still you at least hit the target so there's not excuse for skying it.

If we had a fully fit squad we could have had RVP, Rooney, Kagawa, Nani and Fletcher and probably would have scored 4 out of 5. Also with that team we probably would have won the tie in normal time.

But we ended up where we did and penalties did not suit us.

Let's just hope Mata and someone else signs before the weekend and we can try to put this all behind us and get that 4th spot.

MagicIRL

dixiefly wrote: »

After last night I can fully understand why Hernandez is not a first choice.

Poor poor effort in et when sent through by Januzaj. And the goal he scored he nearly put the ball over the bar only that it was easier to score. I used to think he had a future leading the line but realised early enough on that there is something missing with him that means he wont be a consistent top level striker.

I think what's missing most from him is a consistant run of 90mins. Playing second/third/fourth fiddle in a team will blunt any striker.

adox

jonnyfingers wrote: »

Serious question for everyone. Would any manager be able to achieve long term success with the current squad or will they need to do a significant clear out and sign plenty of new players?

I'm pretty sure it's the latter and wouldn't mind Moyes having the chance in the summer. Even if he's not the best manager tactically I do think he has a good eye for decent players. So I'd be happy for him to get rid of most of the squad and rebuild it with players he chooses himself. If it then took a year or two for them all to gel together would the fans allow for that? I assume the proviso would be that we get top 4 each of those seasons.

Or would you rather Moyes be shown the door and get someone else in to rebuild the team?

While the squad does need some improving, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they are vastly superior to what they have shown so far this season and will be held back by Moyes as long as he is in charge.

His departure really cant come soon enough.

Talk of rebuilding the squad is off the mark imo. The club has looked farcical on and off the pitch since Moyes took charge. Its not working and it wont work with him and this squad.

Getting rid of him as soon as possible I honestly think is the best thing for this squad, the club and the supporters. The longer he is in charge the harder it is going to be to get back to challenging for major honours.

intellectual dosser

They wear the Manchester United badge on their shirts, there is no excuse for the absolute tripe we saw in the shootout last night, they don't get respite for 'stepping up', players should be grabbing the ball looking to take one. They've been kicking the ball since they were 7/8, they shouldn't be nervous taking a proper penalty in a stadium that they play in week in week out.

I don't understand how this is up for debate.

Leftist

jonnyfingers wrote: »

Serious question for everyone. Would any manager be able to achieve long term success with the current squad or will they need to do a significant clear out and sign plenty of new players?

I'm pretty sure it's the latter and wouldn't mind Moyes having the chance in the summer. Even if he's not the best manager tactically I do think he has a good eye for decent players. So I'd be happy for him to get rid of most of the squad and rebuild it with players he chooses himself. If it then took a year or two for them all to gel together would the fans allow for that? I assume the proviso would be that we get top 4 each of those seasons.

Or would you rather Moyes be shown the door and get someone else in to rebuild the team?

moyes out. Ferguson in until summer.

replacement in summer.

Anyone needs time to build their own squad but moyes is a disaster. An unmitigated disaster. Please don't say he deserves time. He's done nothing to deserve this job in the first place.

kstand

Someone on here made a great point in the week - Moyes should be judged after he has gone and spent money and brought players in - and then see how it goes for him.
What happened in summer was disgraceful - all this bluster about buying players but ending up with Feillaini for 4m more than he could have been got for at the end of July. It was shocking - but then Moyes was flying left, right and centre to meet sponsors. Plus he was hamstrung by a novice in Woodward.
On top of that he has been unlucky with injuries to a few key players.
And finally - at least half of the 16 that were named in the squad last night are not good enough to play for the club anymore - or were never any good.
Much and all as I disagreed with his appointment and what ahs gone on, the man still deserved to be judged on what he does now in the transfer market and where we end up. If he goes and spunks another 30m and brings in anotehr 2 players and we still end up out of the CL spots playing the rubbish we have seen this season up to now, then its time to hand him his P45.
Not until the end of the season though.

jonnyfingers

adox wrote: »

While the squad does need some improving, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they are vastly superior to what they have shown so far this season and will be held back by Moyes as long as he is in charge.

His departure really cant come soon enough.

Talk of rebuilding the squad is off the mark imo. The club has looked farcical on and off the pitch since Moyes took charge. Its not working and it wont work with him and this squad.

Getting rid of him as soon as possible I honestly think is the best thing for this squad, the club and the supporters. The longer he is in charge the harder it is going to be to get back to challenging for major honours.

I have to admit I really want Moyes to get a chance with a fully fit squad and some new signings, mainly because I think he's a decent man who has taken on a difficult job. But I am struggling to see what his long term plan is.

Take Rodgers at Liverpool he has his preferred playing style and sticks to it. Now when it doesn't work it doesn't work, and if he loses a few key players the system is difficult to get right, but at least you can see what he's doing. Mourinho is the motivator and can make good tactical decisions without always having his team play the best football. Wenger has consistently had Arsenal playing good football. Pellegrini has come in and made City into a fantastic team who play exciting football. Pep has been brilliant and brings his philosophy where he goes.

I realise I just can't say the same for Moyes. What does he bring really? Motivation? Not really, at least not enough to overcome the current doubt of the players. Tactical genius? Not really. Exciting football? No. Well set up teams that are difficult to beat? Not at the moment.

Moyes as manager of United is kind of like signing Fellaini instead of Fabregas. Fellaini is good and has done well at a top 6 club but Fabregas has done it at the highest level. Moyes is good and has done well at a top 6 club but maybe we should be looking for better.

FutureGuy

average_runner wrote: »

If your a professional player, you can take pens, simple as.

No it isn't. Scoring against a top keeper from 12-yards is tough enough. Having to do so at at time when your club is in the worst run in decades, in the semi-final of a cup that could be the only silverware ye might win, and in front of 70,000 fans who needed that win.

No amount of practice can replicate that pressure.

KH25

Despite last night, I want Moyes to be given a chance to rebuild. He inherited a team with 2 glaring weaknesses: CM and LB. Yes, that team won last year comfortably but we must also take into account that City had an awful season and Chelsea weren't at the races. RVP covered a lot of cracks. Last season everyone here was still complaining about the CM and LB situations.

Moyes needs to change things though. His substitutions most times make no sense at all (not including forced subs). Valencia for Kagawa last night is an example. I agree that Kagawa had a poor second half, but Valencia did very little when he came on. Young would have been a better option, and I can't believe I just said that :P

The tactics need to change too. Mata is hopefully a sign of a shift away from wing play, which we clearly cannot excel at anymore due to our poor wingers. But most of all, the attitude needs to change. We should never be put under siege by a team like Sunderland at Old Trafford. Never. We should sweep teams like them aside the way City swept West Ham aside in the other semi. 1 goal is rarely enough in football. Anything can happen. The team on top needs to kill the game off as soon as they can. That is the most infuriating thing about the team last night and in general. We seem almost content to sit on a 1 goal lead.

bullvine

Great players have missed Penos, Scholes, Ronaldo, RVN.. it happens, Zidane, Messi, Platini, Maradona all missed them

jonnyfingers

bullvine wrote: »

Great players have missed Penos, Scholes, Ronaldo, RVN.. it happens, Zidane, Messi, Platini, Maradona all missed them

And in fairness I miss them all the time in the Sunday League! A cold, wet Sunday in Hackney is similar to in front of 9000 Sunderland fans at Old Trafford right?

jonnyfingers

Leftist wrote: »

moyes out. Ferguson in until summer.

This is the worst scenario I think.

Firstly if Ferguson can't improve things his legacy will be tarnished. He left at the perfect time so doubt he would even consider coming back.

Leftist

what's the point in analysing penalties?

it's the same as looking at individual referee decisions or hitting the post so many times. this is what liverpool have been doing for 20 years and it's taken us 6 months to get to this.

Lord TSC

Fergie coming back is a bad idea.

The benefit of getting rid of Moyes is whoever comes in after him has the benefit of following a failure of an act. Replacing Moyes will be 100 times easier than replacing Fergie, while bringing him back means we are back in the exact same position next time he leaves.

irishfeen

Right, time to forget about last night I think - our luck has totally departed us (99/100 De Gea would have saved that with ease), I actually feel sorry for Moyes.


.... soooo when will Mata be seen at OT?

RasTa

Old trafford and the stretford end was fully behind moyes last night. It was a great atmosphere at certain points. Until you're told to sit down

Discodog

andyman wrote: »

Really, really don't understand what you want from Moyes here. We've had a bid accepted for one of the best players in the League over the past couple of seasons. I'm not Moyes' biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination but seriously, that post and your previous post are just plain stupid.

You said if Mata was watching tonight then he'd cancel the medical, yet you wanted us to lose?

Follow the club through thick and thin or don't follow them at all. Mata coming in is fantastic news as it means Moyes can finally start building his own team. This season was always going to be tough but it's not over yet. We've lacked a cutting edge which Mata will provide for us now.

I have followed the club through thick & thin - I am old enough to remember thin days.

I want & expect to see improvement, a sign that Moyes knows what he is doing. Mata is a fabulous signing but does Moyes know how to use him?

We are relying on an unproven manager to rebuild the club & I am not sure if he can do it.

One thing is clear. He isn't getting the players to perform as well as they used to.

IamtheWalrus

Have we bought players today?

magnumbud

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Have we bought players today?

today could be that day

Dicky Pride

This thread has hit a new low. Defending professional football players for not even hitting the target from 12 yards. Lads you're embarrassing yourselves here.

People go on about the massive difference between a pro footballer and a Sunday league player...dealing with pressure is part of that. Dealing with playing in front of 50k each week...that's part of being a football player. Also, the basics, like taking corners, passing, heading the ball, taking penalties should also be built in.

Making excuses for pros missing from 12 yards...you're having a laugh.

Julez

Dicky Pride wrote: »

This thread has hit a new low. Defending professional football players for not even hitting the target from 12 yards. Lads you're embarrassing yourselves here.

People go on about the massive difference between a pro footballer and a Sunday league player...dealing with pressure is part of that. Dealing with playing in front of 50k each week...that's part of being a football player. Also, the basics, like taking corners, passing, heading the ball, taking penalties should also be built in.

Making excuses for pros missing from 12 yards...you're having a laugh.

Well its happened before and it will happen again. So, despite what you think, professional footballers can miss penalties.

listermint

FutureGuy wrote: »

No it isn't. Scoring against a top keeper from 12-yards is tough enough. Having to do so at at time when your club is in the worst run in decades, in the semi-final of a cup that could be the only silverware ye might win, and in front of 70,000 fans who needed that win.

No amount of practice can replicate that pressure.

Firing high over the bar....


Come off it big man. Power and pace at the keeper isnt difficult. It looks like all of them were trying to place it . Fanciful notions of having the skill to do so.

irishfeen

Discodog wrote: »

I have followed the club through thick & thin - I am old enough to remember thin days.

I want & expect to see improvement, a sign that Moyes knows what he is doing. Mata is a fabulous signing but does Moyes know how to use him?

We are relying on an unproven manager to rebuild the club & I am not sure if he can do it.

One thing is clear. He isn't getting the players to perform as well as they used to.

Maybe the players should stand up and take control of their own dire performances then letting Moyes take the stick. Its easy to blame Moyes but I cannot remember a time when so many players were playing so bad at the one time under SAF...

... some don't deserve to wear the United jersey anymore but Moyes is very very limited on changing things when clubs won't sell players until the summer.

If this is continuing next year (after 3/4 transfer windows) then fair enough but fcuk sake give the man the chance to build his team.

Maximus Alexander

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Making excuses for pros missing from 12 yards...you're having a laugh.

Well there has to be an excuse, since they did miss them. We saw it happen. Or are you suggesting they missed deliberately?

Lord TSC

Is it not crazy though that for some, loyalty is pledged to a manager of seven months who has done little for the club, while happily throwing players of many years who have won trophies under the bus?

The managers job is to get players playing well, and regardless of why it's not happening, it's the manager who takes the blame when it doesn't happen. Moyes knew this when he took the job, as does every manager when they take any job.

20 Times 20 Times

Zaha having his medical at Cardiff !

wandatowell

RasTa wrote: »

Until you're told to sit down

Is that still going on at Utd?

irishfeen

Manchester United staff prepare helicopter landing pad at Carrington for Juan Mata's arrival today

I know its the DM but this make me

Agueroooo

n32 wrote: »

A liverpool fan who has a username of agueroooo says it all really doesnt it!

supersean1999 wrote: »

Ya but in all fairness it's quiet easy see through him. Everything he says u just know what he really thinks but he tries to hide it. It's not a big deal just saying

It obviously is a big deal for you seeing you brought it up and continue with the paranoia posts.

If something like a username upsets you I suggest you stay away from the big bad match threads :pac:

listermint

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Is it not crazy though that for some, loyalty is pledged to a manager of seven months who has done little for the club, while happily throwing players of many years who have won trophies under the bus?

The managers job is to get players playing well, and regardless of why it's not happening, it's the manager who takes the blame when it doesn't happen. Moyes knew this when he took the job, as does every manager when they take any job.

It suited ferguson to do so, so why are you giving out to fans that will do the same thing???

You are only as good as your last/few games.

5starpool

While Utd need to up their consistency and performances, if Liverpool draw with Everton on Tuesday and Spurs fail to beat City on Wednesday then utd will be 4 points off 4th with a win at home to the bottom team in the league on Tuesday. I'd like to be confident that ye are out of it, but it is far from a done deal at this stage, especially if ye get a boost rfom the Mata signing. I can't say that I can see how he will exactly fit into the system that Moyes is playing this season, but introducing a top player is rarely a bad thing for any team.

Maximus Alexander

5starpool wrote: »

but introducing a top player is rarely a bad thing for any team.

Yeah but is he a top player? Or a top top player?

Giggsy11

irishfeen wrote: »

I know its the DM but this make me

Hopefully they keep an eye on the balls that were kicked yesterday and hopefully Sergio Ramos and Charlie Adam are not practicing penalties anytime.

KH25

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yeah but is he a top player? Or a top top player?

Ill get Jamie Redknapp on it. Only he will know.

supersean1999

Delboy5 wrote: »

Saw this last night....

Mike Keegan‏@mikekeeganmen
I'd be surprised if, from what I heard, Mata was the only business #mufc did this window. #mufc

Any more news on that

dilallio

NeVeR wrote: »

The champions of the Premier League missing 4 out of 5 peno's - it's a total joke.

All that's needed is someone who can coach on how to take penalties.

Giggsy11

irishfeen wrote: »

I know its the DM but this make me

Telegraph and Times are also reporting this.

rebeve

I think Moyse has lost the dressing room . Last nights performance was shocking and Mata wont change that .He will not be manager this time next year

because this will get worse .Rooney and RVP will not hang around beyond this crazy season thats for sure and where are we then .

Someone a board level needs to step up and sort this out sooner rather than later . The season is over so you could give a new man a few months to sort

things out . Watching that match last night you just new that Sunderland were going to score . Lets not forget Fergie recommended McLeish to Aston Villa .
He won nothing at Everton over ten years and never won away to a top four team .There is a reason for that and we are now the beneficiaries of it .

Not nice to see a man lose his job , but its plain as day that he is hopelessly out of his depth . First mistake was the removal of the backroom staff

and it was all downhill after that .