Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Oregano_State

An overall lack of confidence is killing us at the moment. Cleverley was involved in the build up to the goal that was posted from the 2011 Charity Shield, a goal that was described as one of the best we've scored in recent memory. He can certainly play better than what we've seen in the past few games, but I think he needs to be dropped today.

Fletcher has certainly tried to be more positive in his use of the ball than Cleverley, since his return. Hopefully the lads will attempt to impose a high tempo from the beginning, we've been dire on that front of late also.

MagicMarker

Anyone else gonna check out the Cardiff game? I'll try and get a stream for it (must suck not having most of your games televised!!). Really looking forward to see how Ole gets on.

Kerrydude1981

Oregano_State wrote: »

An overall lack of confidence is killing us at the moment. Cleverley was involved in the build up to the goal that was posted from the 2011 Charity Shield, a goal that was described as one of the best we've scored in recent memory. He can certainly play better than what we've seen in the past few games, but I think he needs to be dropped today.

Fletcher has certainly tried to be more positive in his use of the ball than Cleverley, since his return. Hopefully the lads will attempt to impose a high tempo from the beginning, we've been dire on that front of late also.

I think Fletcher has good effect on Carrick as well,they seem to play well together and both know when its time to push on and when its time to hold.

Tom Clev at times seems to be stuck between both decisions.

Hopefully Kagawa will get a run today in the "No 10" role and hopefully if he does he takes his chance.Utd haven't been creating much and that's what he was bought for so time for Mr Kagawa to step it up and deliver.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Clev would never be instructed to hold at the edge of his own box. That's madness. Even the lowest defensive block (like Mourinho's Inter vs Barca) wouldn't have midfielders holding positions that deep.

Cleverley probably could have held back a few yards for where he engaged with Johnson, but like I've said, you see central players pushing up all the time like that in Moyes' teams and Clev did definitely have to close Johnson down. The idea that he should have held at the edge of his own box or that Evra should have been the one to go and close down Johnson first is just completely wrong.

Your misquoting me. I didn't say Clev should have run to his own box to wait for Johnson once he gifted him the ball I said instead of rushing at him he should have contained Johnson until he reached the edge of the box or a yard or two outside and then engaged Johnson.

By containing Johnson I mean that Clev should track him by staying in front of him at a relatively close distance, close enough that if Johnson looks like he's about to try a long range Clev can go in but probably not close enough that Clev can stop a quick pass from Johnson. Once both players near our box Clev holds his ground there. This means Johnson either has to pass, shoot or try and beat Clev. If he tries to beat him its harder for Johnson as Clev is not rushing in and more stable and there is less room for Johnson with defenders to the side of and behind Clev. This will make it harder for him to shoot and easier on the team as a whole as our defense can hold its shape and we don't need at CB or full back going to Johnson.

Your Airbag

Oregano_State wrote: »

An overall lack of confidence is killing us at the moment. Cleverley was involved in the build up to the goal that was posted from the 2011 Charity Shield, a goal that was described as one of the best we've scored in recent memory. He can certainly play better than what we've seen in the past few games, but I think he needs to be dropped today.

Fletcher has certainly tried to be more positive in his use of the ball than Cleverley, since his return. Hopefully the lads will attempt to impose a high tempo from the beginning, we've been dire on that front of late also.

It doesn't bode well that one of our best goals in recent memory in terms of passing and playing good football was basically in a pre-season friendly.

MagicMarker

Your Airbag wrote: »

It doesn't bode well that one of our best goals in recent memory in terms of passing and playing good football was basically in a pre-season friendly.

Absolute nonsense. A season opener against City at Wembley, nothing friendly about it.

Your Airbag

MagicMarker wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. A season opener against City at Wembley, nothing friendly about it.

Players are not fully match fit and it lacks the intensity and bite of a proper league game. A lot of teams work a friendly in after the charity shield game before the season opener which even then can take a week or two for teams to play at the top of their game.

Media hype it, players talk it up especially when its UTD v City but its essentially a glorified friendly. Players don't tackle as hard as they would in a regular match.

Rubber_Soul

Quote from Moyes today;

“I think you continue to do the things you’ve been doing because if you have to change it then you’re saying that you were doing the wrong things in the first place"

I'm all for sticking to your guns but if things aren't working, not changing them because it's an admission you got it wrong is pretty worrying to me.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/david-moyes-most-manchester-united-players-are-giving-their-best-9052752.html

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Your misquoting me. I didn't say Clev should have run to his own box to wait for Johnson once he gifted him the ball I said instead of rushing at him he should have contained Johnson until he reached the edge of the box or a yard or two outside and then engaged Johnson.

By containing Johnson I mean that Clev should track him by staying in front of him at a relatively close distance, close enough that if Johnson looks like he's about to try a long range Clev can go in but probably not close enough that Clev can stop a quick pass from Johnson. Once both players near our box Clev holds his ground there. This means Johnson either has to pass, shoot or try and beat Clev. If he tries to beat him its harder for Johnson as Clev is not rushing in and more stable and there is less room for Johnson with defenders to the side of and behind Clev. This will make it harder for him to shoot and easier on the team as a whole as our defense can hold its shape and we don't need at CB or full back going to Johnson.

I didn't misquote you. You said "CLev can hold at the edge of our box".

What you are saying that I said you said (the bolded bit above) is not what I said you said. I made sure to repeat exactly what you said when I was responding to it because I know how much you like to pretend your point has been misrepresented and start these "I said, you said" cluster fúcks whenever you are wrong about something. Here's where I repeated exactly what you said:

Pro. F wrote: »

Clev would never be instructed to hold at the edge of his own box. That's madness. Even the lowest defensive block (like Mourinho's Inter vs Barca) wouldn't have midfielders holding positions that deep.

Cleverley probably could have held back a few yards for where he engaged with Johnson, but like I've said, you see central players pushing up all the time like that in Moyes' teams and Clev did definitely have to close Johnson down. The idea that he should have held at the edge of his own box or that Evra should have been the one to go and close down Johnson first is just completely wrong.

...
You are changing your point about what Cleverley should have done as well. Where's the talk about how Cleverley should have left Evra to go to Johnson? You glossed over that fairly quickly when you realised how stupid that suggestion was. From your original post:

Your Airbag wrote: »

He should not have rushed in so quickly and stayed with Carrick and let Evra go to Johnson and then engaged him if Evra was beat but chances are Evra would force him to cross.

...but now there's no mention of that.

Oregano_State

Your Airbag wrote: »

Players are not fully match fit and it lacks the intensity and bite of a proper league game. A lot of teams work a friendly in after the charity shield game before the season opener which even then can take a week or two for teams to play at the top of their game.

Media hype it, players talk it up especially when its UTD v City but its essentially a glorified friendly. Players don't tackle as hard as they would in a regular match.

I don't agree with any of this. The game in question was played very competitively.

Jimmy Iovine

Just parked in Altrincham. Heading to the train now. We better ****ing win.

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

How can you defend this clown game after game, would any of our rivals have him in their team?????

I'm only defending him from unfair criticism. He has become a scapegoat this season and a lot of ridiculous things have been said about him. This time I wasn't even talking about Cleverley when Your Airbag quoted me and started discussing him in particlar. Not saying that there was anything wrong with YA doing that.

The fact that Cleverley wouldn't get into our rivals' teems doesn't justify the over the top criticism he gets in here. That is obvious when you think about it and has been explained several times before now.

Backstreet Moyes

Lads what's the story with goal line technology. Watching the Cardiff game to see Ole in charge and backed Kim for first goal. His shot looked over the line but they never checked. Is this technology not used yet i thought it was?

Pro. F

Nuts102 wrote: »

Lads what's the story with goal line technology. Watching the Cardiff game to see Ole in charge and backed Kim for first goal. His shot looked over the line but they never checked. Is this technology not used yet i thought it was?

They don't need to check. As soon as the ball crosses the line a message goes to the refs special watch and he gives the goal. So if he doesn't get the message nothing happens.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Nuts102 wrote: »

Lads what's the story with goal line technology. Watching the Cardiff game to see Ole in charge and backed Kim for first goal. His shot looked over the line but they never checked. Is this technology not used yet i thought it was?

All close ones are checked immediately and if its a goal the refs watch tells him. No need to stop for it to be done

Backstreet Moyes

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

All close ones are checked immediately and if its a goal the refs watch tells him. No need to stop for it to be done

Will see at half time but it looked over the line.

MagicMarker

Nuts102 wrote: »

Will see at half time but it looked over the line.

It wasn't, if it was it would be a goal.

kryogen

Hococop wrote: »

good to see them gain game time but our team is looking very bare atm

For me, it absolutely must mean that signing are imminent, the squad is stretched as it is let alone letting two players go out of it (I know they werent playing much but with Nani and Young out letting a wide player go must surely mean someone is coming in) Same for lb

markc91

I seen the replay they showed it was a goal using the 3d camera's, thought the refs watch beeps when it goes over the line or something but was 100% over the line

K4t

Is Sunderland's Sung-Yueng Ki a better player than Kagawa? He scored again today and put in a very accomplished performance against us in the League Cup.

It's true, Kagawa would really have had to be the best Asian footballer ever to be good enough to make it at Utd and he doesn't even look like the best in the Premier League.

IncognitoMan

All of the ball over all of the line? It would be fairly big news If the goal line technology failed and I can't see anything about it

Backstreet Moyes

Not exactly reliable a friend told me a Seria A commentator said United and PSG bid 20 million for Pjanic and Roma want 25 million. He probably read it somewhere but hope some truth in it.

Backstreet Moyes

IncognitoMan wrote: »

All of the ball over all of the line? It would be fairly big news If the goal line technology failed and I can't see anything about it

Like i said it looked over the line originally. Only on a stream so no replay but the commentator was fairly sure it was over the line. Was hoping to get a replay at half time but it's only all ad's on the stream.

user2011

markc91 wrote: »

I seen the replay they showed it was a goal using the 3d camera's, thought the refs watch beeps when it goes over the line or something but was 100% over the line

Definitely wasn't a goal, finally got around to showing a side on view the ball showing as being right on the line, I know it didn't look it from front on view I thought it was the first f**k up from the technology.

Vic Vinegar

Nuts102 wrote: »

Not exactly reliable a friend told me a Seria A commentator said United and PSG bid 20 million for Pjanic and Roma want 25 million. He probably read it somewhere but hope some truth in it.

There's a good few journos saying it on Twitter and the like.

If it's true and we don't pay the quoted fee, i'll lose all hope

Backstreet Moyes

Spurs and Everton winning can't afford to drop points today.

kryogen

K4t wrote: »

Is Sunderland's Sung-Yueng Ki a better player than Kagawa? He scored again today and put in a very accomplished performance against us in the League Cup.

It's true, Kagawa would really have had to be the best Asian footballer ever to be good enough to make it at Utd and he doesn't even look like the best in the Premier League.

No

No he isnt.

He is some man at playing sideways and backwards passes though, would fit right in!

MagicMarker

Is Carlton Cole better than Welbeck?

I ask this solely because they are both black.

Kylo Ren

MU starting XI: De Gea; Rafael, Smalling, Vidic, Evra; Valencia, Carrick, Fletcher, Januzaj; Kagawa, Welbeck

Kagawa in the hole?!?!

Professey Chin

VAL AGAIN!!

MagicMarker

Keno wrote: »

MU starting XI: De Gea; Rafael, Smalling, Vidic, Evra; Valencia, Carrick, Fletcher, Januzaj; Kagawa, Welbeck

Kagawa in the hole?!?!

Had to be done.

beno619

Keno wrote: »

MU starting XI: De Gea; Rafael, Smalling, Vidic, Evra; Valencia, Carrick, Fletcher, Januzaj; Kagawa, Welbeck

Kagawa in the hole?!?!

Hallelujah praise the lord !

Kylo Ren

MagicMarker wrote: »

Had to be done.

I was gonna try and get the gif but I couldn't be arsed!

KombuchaMshroom

Lingard on the bench!

Kagawa and Januzaj with a chance to link up for once, 2 competent center midfielders in Carrick and Fletcher, and right wing isn't so bad with Rafael starting.

Dare I say it, but might this match actually be enjoyable to watch?

Rayne Wooney

Keno wrote: »

MU starting XI: De Gea; Rafael, Smalling, Vidic, Evra; Valencia, Carrick, Fletcher, Januzaj; Kagawa, Welbeck

Kagawa in the hole?!?!

Saucy McKetchup

Professey Chin wrote: »

VAL AGAIN!!

As opposed to who, the only other option is zaha and he's unproven, Giggs played midweek so januzaj is the only options on the left

Lingard on the bench, hope he gets some game time

Mikeyt086

Day 3 of the Winnie The Pooh transfer watch, and dementia is beginning to set in. Nah not really but I've only one story to go on today so lets get on with it. No need to do the intro and rating scale any more as you should be familiar with it, if not, see this post here.

Lets get on with it, today/last night we have been reported to be preparing a £24m bid for Borussia Dortmund midfielder Ilkay Gundogan.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-target-ilkay-gundogan-3009353

What type of player?

The Great White Buffalo... Great White Buffalo... Great White Buffalo.

Basically, if you don't know, Gundogan is everybody's #1 target, he is seen as exactly what we need.

What are the chances of signing him?

Piss poor.

First of all, preparing a bid? Do Dortmund require a particularly nicely designed cover photo for the bid? Do we need to give the bid a pep-talk and a powerpoint presentation to deliver upon his arrival in Germany? Wtf is preparing a bid? Setting it up for the inevitable rejection perhaps? No, "preparing a bid" is bull**** paper talk for "They might bid, they might not, we don't know, we have to make a living and every click on a link counts."

This transfer would be a serious shock if it happened. Gundogan is one of Dortmund's prized assets, along with Marco Reus, and having just let Lewandowski agree to join arch rivals Bayern, what kind of message does it say to the fans if they don't hang on to Gundogan? They can't afford to lose him, by all accounts he is happy there, and £24m is nowhere near enough to land him. For us to land Gundogan, I imagine we would have to offer close to the £24m in cash, and then throw in Shinji on top. The fans of Dortmund might not riot then. I just don't see a way that this is a plausible transfer, ESPECIALLY in January when the guy hasn't played a game all season through injury.

Happiness rating were deal to go through:

Tigger.


Great White Buffalo.

Current overall happiness rating:

Eeyore

MagicMarker

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

As opposed to who, the only other option is zaha and he's unproven, Giggs played midweek so januzaj is the only options on the left

Lingard on the bench, hope he gets some game time

Welbeck on the left, Januzaj on the right.

I would love, LOVE IT, to see Januzaj and Rafael link up.

Saucy McKetchup

MagicMarker wrote: »

Welbeck on the left, Januzaj on the right.

I would love, LOVE IT, to see Januzaj and Rafael link up.

That would mean Hernandez up front:eek:

K4t

kryogen wrote: »

No

No he isnt.

He is some man at playing sideways and backwards passes though, would fit right in!

Based on this season so far though, he is...

kryogen

Anyone else think it will be Kag out wide with Jan in the hole?

In all honesty its probably the best line up we could hope for in the circumstance, everyone knows that if Valencia is fit he plays for some unknown reason.

Happy with it, hopeful

Rayne Wooney

Ffs sky have Januzaj in the hole

He's an infinitely better winger than Kagawa

beno619

kryogen wrote: »

Anyone else think it will be Kag out wide with Jan in the hole?

In all honesty its probably the best line up we could hope for in the circumstance, everyone knows that if Valencia is fit he plays for some unknown reason.

Happy with it, hopeful

Knowing Moyes Kagawa will be out wide

Yep skysports think he's our wide..

Lukker-

kryogen wrote: »

Anyone else think it will be Kag out wide with Jan in the hole?

In all honesty its probably the best line up we could hope for in the circumstance, everyone knows that if Valencia is fit he plays for some unknown reason.

Happy with it, hopeful

Yeah, Januazj played the last game in the hole didn't he? It's his preferred position to AFAIK.

Kerrydude1981

I reckon the two will rotate,but Jan is the better winger so Kag should start in the middle.

Lukker-

They'll both most likely interchange. Although knowing Moyes, probably not. Static.

Saucy McKetchup

Kagawa will start out wide, januzaj in the hole, they'll swap around if we go a goal down and we'll win 2-1

Paully D

kryogen wrote: »

I havent read it yet, but just the last part there, that didnt come from myth, that came from Rio Ferdinand, on camera, talking about how the manager names the team late and how it is different to how the old manager did things.

Lawton says that's simply not true and is more to do with Ferdinand not being involved as much than Moyes not naming the team.

The idea that Moyes leaves the players sweating until two hours before the game is incorrect. The majority of the time, players will be told the day before. Perhaps Ferdinand is wrestling with the fact he just isn’t someone Moyes has in mind for the big games these days.

K4t

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

I reckon the two will rotate,but Jan is the better winger so Kag should start in the middle.

Ideally Adnan would play in the middle and we'd have a decent left winger with Kagawa as back up.

Lord TSC

"Why have things been so hard for you here?"

"Well, if I knew that, I'd have done something about it!"

Nice to know our manager knows what he's doing