Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

When was the last time Fellaini and Carrick played together?

I can't remember much, I just remember them getting in each others way doing the same job. If they can sync and sit back to let the 4 attackers get the goals it could be great

Why do you want them to sit back? I would say a team like United needs to be getting more than 4 players forward.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Why do you want them to sit back? I would say a team like United needs to be getting more than 4 players forward.

The fullbacks will get forward as they always do as well, Fellaini was doing okay distributing the ball at the start of the season but our wingers could do fcuk all with it and his passing charts showed he was playing the ball into them in promising areas, with Mata, Rooney and RVP in front of him it could lead to great play. Fellaini doesn't do as well when he's pushed forward, he needs options ahead of him, he is best when he sits back like what he does for Belgium.

GSPfan

Sky reporting that Moyes said Nani is out for another month with hamstring injury.

They were hinting at the injury being the reason he didn't go anywhere this window.

Edit : Sky Italia are apparently reporting a failed attempt to take Nani on loan by Juventus.

Nalz

GSPfan wrote: »

Sky reporting that Moyes said Nani is out for another month with hamstring injury.

They were hinting at the injury being the reason he didn't go anywhere this window.

Official word from Milan that we rejected a loan deal for Nani

Nalz

GSPfan wrote: »

Edit : Sky Italia are apparently reporting a failed attempt to take Nani on loan by Juventus.

or Milan???

GSPfan

Trilla wrote: »

or Milan???

Straight from the beautiful Kate Abdo's mouth on Sky Sports News. She said Juventus.

Kerrydude1981

GSPfan wrote: »

Straight from the beautiful Kate Abdo's mouth on Sky Sports News. She said Juventus.

After Mata she has been the second best signing of the window

TheMilkyPirate

Will Keane having a meltdown on ssn made no sense at all ha

Kerrydude1981

Cant wait till its over,John Collins would put you to sleep.

Maximus Alexander

Sometimes I think you lads will go for anyone that throws a bit of make-up on and goes on SSN.

yomtea98

TRANSFER WINDOW CLOSED

2moreMinutes

Moyes wasn't telling porkies.

GSPfan

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Sometimes I think you lads will go for anyone .............................

I didn't read the rest cause you summed me up right here.

Robson99

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

When was the last time Fellaini and Carrick played together?

I can't remember much, I just remember them getting in each others way doing the same job. If they can sync and sit back to let the 4 attackers get the goals it could be great

Would much rather see a combination of Fellaini and Fletcher with Fellaini doing the defensive duties and Fletcher getting forward. Carrick has been poor this season and when played with Fellaini they seem too static with neither wanting to get forward, Fletcher imo the best of an average lot to support Fellaini

Maximus Alexander

Right so that's the transfer rubbish done for another few months, back to football!

Stoke, anyone? I'm going for a midfield of Rafael and Giggs. 8-0 Stoke.

ician

ugh i get so mad we lost Pogba.

GSPfan

ician wrote: »

ugh i get so mad we lost Pogba.

It's alright, Juventus found him.

Danger781

We sent 8 players out on loan today. That's mad Ted.

Bring in Zaha and Anderson and that's 10.

You'd swear we were swimming in talent!

lordgoat

There are 16 players out on loan in total. And 3 sold.

Just half of what Chelsea have on loan.

Paul Tergat

I'm really concerned about the window just gone.

While I think long term Mata will prove to be an awesome signing we havent addressed our clear problems which may render his signing, for now at least, not that effective. We needed to get in at least 1 midfielder and haven't done. I can't see a change in the way that we approach game and as such I don't think we will be getting 4th place.

Would love to be wrong.

Anyway, off for beers. Enjoy the weekend ladies and gents. 3 points tomorrow please.

Rayne Wooney

Hopefully RVP, Mata and Rooney can cover the cracks just once more until we actually try and fix it in the summer

We're 6 points off mainly without one or both of them, surely them coming back can make up some of those 6 points over the 15 games and have a good go at it.

Paul Tergat

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Hopefully RVP, Mata and Rooney can cover the cracks just once more until we actually try and fix it in the summer

We're 6 points off mainly without one or both of them, surely them coming back can make up some of those 6 points over the 15 games and have a good go at it.

I just think that these points will need to be made up against the sides around and above us. I really have no faith in us winning the midfield battle against any of these teams and then when we add the somewhat negative nature of our play I really dont see us getting many points in these games

Thatsfootball

Saw that Tunnicliffe went permanently to Fulham, was one player I thought would make a squad player. Only young enough too, and should get his chance at PL level now.

Danger781

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I just think that these points will need to be made up against the sides around and above us. I really have no faith in us winning the midfield battle against any of these teams and then when we add the somewhat negative nature of our play I really dont see us getting many points in these games

With the state of the Arsenal midfield currently, I reckon we could put up a fair fight. Ramsey out, Walcott out, Wilshere doubtful, Flamini suspended..

That pretty much leaves Arteta and Cazorla as their regular starters. Arteta has been in and out of the team this season so calling him a regular starter could even be argued.

Arteta, Cazorla, Gnabry, and Kallstrom doesn't exactly scream talent..

Of course we'll have to deal with Ozil. Bitta Phil Jones, be grand.

lordgoat

Thatsfootball wrote: »

Saw that Tunnicliffe went permanently to Fulham, was one player I thought would make a squad player. Only young enough too, and should get his chance at PL level now.

I was more upset that Cole moved permanently tbh!

tallaghtmick

lordgoat wrote: »

I was more upset that Cole moved permanently tbh!

We could have 1st choice on them.

brinty

So James Cooper on SSN saying re summer transfer window
"I promise Manchester United fans it will be a transfer window to watch and marvel at"

Hmmm me thinks he's trying to troll us.......

Quandary

I think we are lucky Liverpool didn't strengthen this window. Their squad is paper thin and IMO, they could be in huge bother with a couple of injuries.

Moyes has a real chance to push on now. Let's hope he takes it and seals that 4th spot.

Thatsfootball

lordgoat wrote: »

I was more upset that Cole moved permanently tbh!

Actually thought that was only a loan deal, that's why I didn't mention him!

brinty

Tis quiet in here tonight, thought there might be more reaction????

lordgoat

tallaghtmick wrote: »

We could have 1st choice on them.

Meh we had first option on Daehli did us no good.

Danger781

brinty wrote: »

Tis quiet in here tonight, thought there might be more reaction????

Reaction to what?

Kallstrom? Mitroglou? Not much exciting happened today..

I'm not surprised we didn't sign a CM. I think Moyes wants to see how Fellaini / Carrick / Fletcher rotation works out before moving. This summer, I absolutely 100% guarantee we will sign at least one. Preferably two.

As for a LB, strange one. The one thing Evra has been decent at so far this season is attacking. Defensively he has been a liability at times. You would think Moyes would give Buttner a chance. I've seen people in here reckon he could play as WB or even a left winger so obviously people must think he's decent at attacking, and he can't be much worse than Evra when it comes to defensive duties. A spell on the sidelines might knock some of the ego out of Evra as well.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The fullbacks will get forward as they always do as well, Fellaini was doing okay distributing the ball at the start of the season but our wingers could do fcuk all with it and his passing charts showed he was playing the ball into them in promising areas, with Mata, Rooney and RVP in front of him it could lead to great play. Fellaini doesn't do as well when he's pushed forward, he needs options ahead of him, he is best when he sits back like what he does for Belgium.

Fellaini does do well when he pushes forward. He's an all action type of central midfielder and not at all suited to sitting back and picking passes out, his passing isn't that accurate.

Fullbacks and four forwards is not enough of an attack. A team like United need to be attacking properly, not messing about with two central midfielders sitting deep.

Delboy5

Who's James Cooper?

brinty wrote: »

So James Cooper on SSN saying re summer transfer window
"I promise Manchester United fans it will be a transfer window to watch and marvel at"

Hmmm me thinks he's trying to troll us.......

Al Capwned

Went to our clubs AGM at 8 tonight, and am very disappointed at the lack of posts in here when I got home!

Was really hoping against hope that we'd at least get something sorted at full back, I had kind of resigned myself to not getting a CM in. I still reckon we are more than capable of getting 4th spot and we should really see new players coming in during the Summer!
Fingers crossed.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Fellaini does do well when he pushes forward. He's an all action type of central midfielder and not at all suited to sitting back and picking passes out, his passing isn't that accurate.

Fullbacks and four forwards is not enough of an attack. A team like United need to be attacking properly, not messing about with two central midfielders sitting deep.

I didn't say he doesn't do well, I'm saying he does better playing as a deeper CM
not an attacking CM. His passing is good for a CM playing in this role, he did it at Everton for a few seasons.

So you propose Fellaini pushing forward where he's less effective to attack properly? That'll just lead to brute force attacking and a team like United need to attack properly, not messing about like that, Stoke would probably use Fellaini this way.

Obviously being our best player in the air he would be getting into the box for crosses, but I think that would be common sense and wouldn't need to be explained. Playing deeper with Carrick gives us decent cover from counters and I think it's the best position they play, like what he does from Belgium.

RobertKK

Watching MUTV, Fellaini will be on the bench but won't be played, Moyes wants him back among the team but he is not far off from being available.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I didn't say he doesn't do well, I'm saying he does better playing as a deeper CM
not an attacking CM. His passing is good for a CM playing in this role, he did it at Everton for a few seasons.

So you propose Fellaini pushing forward where he's less effective to attack properly? That'll just lead to brute force attacking and a team like United need to attack properly, not messing about like that, Stoke would probably use Fellaini this way.

Obviously being our best player in the air he would be getting into the box for crosses, but I think that would be common sense and wouldn't need to be explained and that I wouldn't need to go into great detail about every role I want him to do on the pitch. Playing deeper with Carrick gives us decent cover from counters and I think it's the best position they play, like what he does from Belgium.

His passing is not good for a CM playing in any role. It's acceptable because he makes up for it with other qualities, but to describe it as good is wrong. His passing is inaccurate.

I propose for Fellaini to play as a box-to-box central midfielder, getting forward and back. There's nothing brute force about that, it's certainly more elegant than playing with two sitting central midfielders.

The idea of him getting in the box for crosses does not make any sense when you said he should sit back with Carrick and let the four attackers get the goals.

Cypher_sounds

brinty wrote: »

Tis quiet in here tonight, thought there might be more reaction????

We didn't get enough elements to have a reaction;)

Cypher_sounds

RobertKK wrote: »

Watching MUTV, Fellaini will be on the bench but won't be played, Moyes wants him back among the team but he is not far off from being available.

What is he doing on the bench if he isn't even an option, pointless and shows our lack of depth to have to put him on the bench already imo

irishfeen

Next 5 PL games -

Stoke
Fulham
Arsenal
Crystal Palace
West Brom

Realistically 13 points minimum is needed to get back inside the top 4 - imo get 13 and I think we will finish inside top 4 but if we mess it up I think CL football might be just out of reach with Liverpool's current form.

J. Marston

irishfeen wrote: »

Next 5 PL games -

Stoke
Fulham
Arsenal
Crystal Palace
West Brom

Realistically 13 points minimum is needed to get back inside the top 4 - imo get 13 and I think we will finish inside top 4 but if we mess it up I think CL football might be just out of reach with Liverpool's current form.

I see us getting 10 out of 15 from that run.

Stoke - 1
Fulham - 3
Arsenal -0
Palace - 3
West Brom - 3

Danger781

J. Marston wrote: »

I see us getting 10 out of 15 from that run.

Stoke - 1
Fulham - 3
Arsenal -0
Palace - 3
West Brom - 3

I think we can get a draw with Arsenal

And we should be beating Stoke..

J. Marston

Danger781 wrote: »

I think we can get a draw with Arsenal

And we should be beating Stoke..

With Arsenal's fixture list, I suppose a draw isn't out of the question.

But our record against the big teams this season doesn't fill me with confidence.

goodolegill

i was interested in the media praise that Phil Jones always gets and his classification as the great white hope and the best defender that we have so i decided to look into his stats. So ive looked at the 2 1/2 seasons that he has been with us and this is what i came up with

Phil Jones total games started - 11/12 - 25 games
12/13 - 13 games
13/14 - 15 games total - 53 games for Man Utd


11/12 12/13 13/14
Games started at CB - 14 games 7 3 4
Games started at RB - 22 games 13 5 4
Games started at CM - 17 games 5 5 7

Phil Jones at CB - 8 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses.
But the stat that I'm more interested in is the those 14 games - Utd have only had 4 clean sheets
3-0 villa 13/14 - 3-0 villa 12/13 2-0 norwich 11/12 and 3-0 spurs

We have conceded 21 goals in the 14 games that Phil Jones has played at CB

that for me is an awful record for a guy who Fergie classes as our best center half for the next ten years. I'm i alone in thinking that the myth of Phil Jones is a media myth as they desperately search around for the next great english center half to lead them like Bobby Moore.....

Pro. F

goodolegill wrote: »

i was interested in the media praise that Phil Jones always gets and his classification as the great white hope and the best defender that we have so i decided to look into his stats. So ive looked at the 2 1/2 seasons that he has been with us and this is what i came up with

Phil Jones total games started - 11/12 - 25 games
12/13 - 13 games
13/14 - 15 games total - 53 games for Man Utd


11/12 12/13 13/14
Games started at CB - 14 games 7 3 4
Games started at RB - 22 games 13 5 4
Games started at CM - 17 games 5 5 7

Phil Jones at CB - 8 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses.
But the stat that I'm more interested in is the those 14 games - Utd have only had 4 clean sheets
3-0 villa 13/14 - 3-0 villa 12/13 2-0 norwich 11/12 and 3-0 spurs

We have conceded 21 goals in the 14 games that Phil Jones has played at CB

that for me is an awful record for a guy who Fergie classes as our best center half for the next ten years. I'm i alone in thinking that the myth of Phil Jones is a media myth as they desperately search around for the next great english center half to lead them like Bobby Moore.....

There used to be a poster on here called Homerjay2005 who made the same argument about Jones and the team conceding goals when he played at centre back. I'll ask you the same question I used to ask him when he brought up this stat - how many consecutive games has Jones played at centre back in a settled defence?

Also it should be noted that 5 of those goals conceded came in one crazy game - Fergie's last, with a back four of Valencia, Jones, Evans, Buttner; Lindegaard in goal and Anderson and Kagawa on the wings.

To criticise a young CB for that goals against record when he isn't even making regular starts in a settled defence is very stupid.

goodolegill

Pro. F wrote: »

There used to be a poster on here called Homerjay2005 who made the same argument about Jones and the team conceding goals when he played at centre back. I'll ask you the same question I used to ask him when he brought up this stat - how many consecutive games has Jones played at centre back in a settled defence?

Also it should be noted that 5 of those goals conceded came in one crazy game - Fergie's last, with a back four of Valencia, Jones, Evans, Buttner; Lindegaard in goal and Anderson and Kagawa on the wings.

To criticise a young CB for that goals against record when he isn't even making regular starts in a settled defence is very stupid.

I find your argument very stupid also - u talk about a settled back four, what does that exactly mean?? This guy grew up playing as a cb, I would of thought that it would b harder for him to transition him into another position. It is now 3 different managers that he has worked under since he has been at Man utd and none have had enough faith in him to make their first choice.

Vidic has missed large amounts of the previous 2 seasons and yet, he was consistently played as a RB with Evans playing the majority of times and even smalling coming in. He has been consistently overlooked and this settled team that u long for would seemingly have him as our 5th choice center half, not the John terry figure that has built up around him since his arrival. I'm just saying the stats don't back the theory that he is a great cb and the mitigating circumstances you use about the WBA game - its was west brom for gods sake!!!

Giggsy11

goodolegill wrote: »

i was interested in the media praise that Phil Jones always gets and his classification as the great white hope and the best defender that we have so i decided to look into his stats. So ive looked at the 2 1/2 seasons that he has been with us and this is what i came up with

Phil Jones total games started - 11/12 - 25 games
12/13 - 13 games
13/14 - 15 games total - 53 games for Man Utd


11/12 12/13 13/14
Games started at CB - 14 games 7 3 4
Games started at RB - 22 games 13 5 4
Games started at CM - 17 games 5 5 7

Phil Jones at CB - 8 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses.
But the stat that I'm more interested in is the those 14 games - Utd have only had 4 clean sheets
3-0 villa 13/14 - 3-0 villa 12/13 2-0 norwich 11/12 and 3-0 spurs

We have conceded 21 goals in the 14 games that Phil Jones has played at CB

that for me is an awful record for a guy who Fergie classes as our best center half for the next ten years. I'm i alone in thinking that the myth of Phil Jones is a media myth as they desperately search around for the next great english center half to lead them like Bobby Moore.....

IMO that's wrong way to judge a player.

Against which teams did he play as CB?
Who was his CB partner?
How many individual mistakes he committed in conceding those many goals?

There are many things to be considered. For example if Jones played against City, Chelsea, Arsenal then we are bound to concede few, on the other hand if Evans/Smalling played at Home against weaker teams they are bound to keep cleansheet.

goodolegill

Giggsy11 wrote: »

IMO that's wrong way to judge a player.

Against which teams did he play as CB?
Who was his CB partner?
How many individual mistakes he committed in conceding those many goals?

There are many things to be considered. For example if Jones played against City, Chelsea, Arsenal then we are bound to concede few, on the other hand if Evans/Smalling played at Home against weaker teams they are bound to keep cleansheet.

in response to this, he played newcastle, villa x2, blackburn, stoke x 2, sunderland, southampton, norwich, west brom. 16 goals conceded

He played the other 4 against chelsea, arsenal, spurs all 2011-12
Man city 2012-13 - 5 goals conceded

Giggsy11

In the games Jones started as CB:

Against WBA: De Gea conceded soft goal. We won 2-1
Against Arsenal 8-2: Nothing much he could do. Walcott goal was not his mistake and that was crazy game with all out attack. Jones cleared the cross and RVP got the chance when Jones was out of play.
Against Chelsea: 3-1. Torres goal, I think Jones lost his marker and you could blame him.

Against Stoke: 1-1: Jones and Rio made mistake IMO. It was from set piece and it was a wonderful delivery from Charlie Adam.

Against Blackburn 3-2: His partner was Carrick and IIRC Berbatov conceded Penalty and De Gea made mistake for the 3rd goal.

Against Newcastle: Cabaye free kick I remember, not sure about rest.

In 2012-13 season:

Against City we lost 2-1. Not sure if he made any mistake.
Against WBA: 5-5 Crazy game and I don't remember goals TBH.

Maybe this looks like excuses but I don't remember him making many mistakes as CB and its harsh to blame him for the number of goals conceded.