Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Vinz Mesrine

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It suits a lot of people on a lot of levels to have Moyes at the club right now.

ABUs are thrilled at how we've taken a nosedive this season, and can see the major difference between this and last is Moyes. Look at how quick non-United fans are to come running in telling us to give him time and be patient. There's a reason for that.

Meanwhile, the media are getting story after story; Moyes is a quote machine for all the wrong reasons, turmoil is an easier sell than consistency, and they will attract wider audiences by being able to write about United's downfall without actually attacking a major contributor to that fall. They'll want him to stay as long as possible, so will attack United but make sure they don't heap too much pressure on him all at once.

The sad fact is that if he goes, it will be the non-United fans who suffer the biggest disappointments...

Replace United with Liverpool and Moyes with Hodgson and it's 2010 all over again.

jaykay74

Today is groundhog day. Sure feels like it alright

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day

Headshot

Its All Wright wrote: »

Why does the manager always get the blame? So of the players should be ashamed of themselves with them performances there producing

The players have no control over transfer windows, team selection,tactics and background staff being appointed. The players have been poor I grant you that but its the mangers fault that he cant get the best out of the players at the moment.

Saucy McKetchup

Who do all the people who want Moyes out think should replace him?

racso1975

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Who do all the people who want Moyes out think should replace him?

Martinez or Big Sam for even more giggles and ****

Its All Wright

Headshot wrote: »

The players have no control over transfer windows, team selection,tactics and background staff being appointed. The players have been poor I grant you that but its the mangers fault that he cant get the best out of the players at the moment.

But they have control of what happens on the pitch and a team with that quality of player should be beating Stoke, Sunderland or Swansea easily whether its Moyes or Donald Duck in charge. The manager is always the easy person to blame.

Headshot

Its All Wright wrote: »

But they have control of what happens on the pitch and a team with that quality of player should be beating Stoke, Sunderland or Swansea easily whether its Moyes or Donald Duck in charge. The manager is always the easy person to blame.

Your really denial tbh

Team selection for Stoke was dreadful too. The players dont look pushed to play for Moyes and that is because they dont rate him. They come from one of the greatest managers of all time to a manager that has done **** all in the sport.

Getting back to the Stoke game, what did you think of subs in that game? I thought they were dreadful. Welbeck coming on instead of Chico was criminal and then giving chico only 10 or so minutes to change a game is awful managing.

beno619

Headshot wrote: »

Your really denial tbh

Team selection for Stoke was dreadful too. The players dont look pushed to play for Moyes and that is because they dont rate him. They come from one of the greatest managers of all time to a manager that has done **** all in the sport.

Getting back to the Stoke game, what did you think of subs in that game? I thought they were dreadful. Welbeck coming on instead of Chico was criminal and then giving chico only 10 or so minutes to change a game is awful managing.

Fletcher should have come on instead of changing the shape of the whole side.

I was more worried about the fact Smalling kept launching long balls forward in those conditions, amateur stuff and the manager didn't seem to have any problem with it.

Headshot

beno619 wrote: »

Fletcher should have come on instead of changing the shape of the whole side.

I was more worried about the fact Smalling kept launching long balls forward in those conditions, amateur stuff and the manager didn't seem to have any problem with it.

It doesnt surprise me, his previous team was long ball specialist

killwill

Headshot wrote: »

Your really denial tbh

Team selection for Stoke was dreadful too. The players dont look pushed to play for Moyes and that is because they dont rate him. They come from one of the greatest managers of all time to a manager that has done **** all in the sport.

Getting back to the Stoke game, what did you think of subs in that game? I thought they were dreadful. Welbeck coming on instead of Chico was criminal and then giving chico only 10 or so minutes to change a game is awful managing.

Yeah, I questioned team selection before the game. And the substitution was mindboggling.
But the tactics were disgraceful. Playing hoofball to RVP is crazy. He cannot control that kind of "pass". Get the ball to his feet and we will see a huge difference.
Why have great footballers like RVP, Rooney and Mata on the pitch if we are not going to keep the ball on the ground.

beno619

killwill wrote: »

Yeah, I questioned team selection before the game. And the substitution was mindboggling.
But the tactics were disgraceful. Playing hoofball to RVP is crazy. He cannot control that kind of "pass". Get the ball to his feet and we will see a huge difference.
Why have great footballers like RVP, Rooney and Mata on the pitch if we are not going to keep the ball on the ground.

In all fairness we were trying to play football for the first 30 mins. After the injuries and the freak goal the players lost there way a bit.

Its the managers job to enforce his style on the team Moyes didn't mind us reverting to ****e / long ball football which is alarming.

Its All Wright

Headshot wrote: »

Your really denial tbh

Team selection for Stoke was dreadful too. The players dont look pushed to play for Moyes and that is because they dont rate him. They come from one of the greatest managers of all time to a manager that has done **** all in the sport.

Getting back to the Stoke game, what did you think of subs in that game? I thought they were dreadful. Welbeck coming on instead of Chico was criminal and then giving chico only 10 or so minutes to change a game is awful managing.

Team selection was awful? He played our best team available. A team that had RVP, Rooney, Mata, Carrick, Jones, Evans, Evra etc

I would have brought Chico on instead of Welbeck myself but Welbeck has good goal scoring record recently so i can the logic behind it

I dont buy into this idea that none of the players respect Moyes. The theory that Moyes couldnt attract top players was debunked when we signed Mata anyway.

Discodog

I was a Moyes supporter. Every game I look for a glimmer of hope. He knew the weather forecast, he knows the stadium & he knows that Stoke are a big, physical team. Yet he persisted with high balls.

You can see our lack of determination & will. Moyes barks instructions but I get the impression that the players don't believe in him. We never see that last ten minute surge - Fergie time is dead & buried.

Yes he signed Mata but by all accounts Mata was a fan of the club. I wanted to look forward to the summer transfers but I am losing faith in Moyes's ability to use players effectively.

jaykay74

After the Fulham home game we have Arsenal, Palace and WBA away in the league. I don't think we'll breech 3 points from the 3 away games. Gut feeling is that we'll lose to Arsenal and win and lose one of the other 2.

GSPfan

bryangiggsy wrote: »

For United Mark Hughes was a brilliant no 10. How can you hate a former United great? That goal he scored against Barcelona in the Cup Winners Cup final from the sideline. You probably hate Roy Keane too?!

I can't stand him. Everytime I hear him moan and complain it does my head in. Couldn't care less if he played for United.
I actually have no love for Keane but he doesn't annoy me everytime I hear his voice like Hughes.

bucketybuck

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Just looking at Zaha today and the difference between him and Valencia, it's frightening Moyes loaned him out and persists with Valencia, gets his head up, actually crosses the ball instead of driving it as hard as he can. Sad just sad.

But he doesn't do it where it really counts, in training! :rolleyes:

Dicky Pride

This is it, in a nut shell:

http://redmancunian.com/2014/02/01/learned-stoke-city-2-1-manchester-united/

gosplan

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Who do all the people who want Moyes out think should replace him?

Giggs as player/manager.

Really though, they should keep Moyes till Jose has a falling out at Chelsea (prob within next 2 seasons)

Then take Jose as saviour. He'll only stay for a couple of seasons but he'll get them back near the top.

Corvo

Why didn't he bring on Fletcher? Honestly, his decisions, comments and general philosophy is just becoming more baffling by the minute.

Glazers must be looking at replacements - they just have to be.

wonderfullife

mike65 wrote: »

This must be true to a degree, the manager has to have a plan, an ethos and a style that players believe in and you'd naturally wonder if the older heads in the squad are thinking "what can you teach us that our old boss couldn't teach much better" and yet Mata was willing to jump on board. Presumably he thought enough of what he heard when he was being sounded out. Of course it could be he just thinks Utd are very big and therefore success will follow soon even if its under a different manager

With Mata i genuinely believe it had almost zero to do with Moyes (or even Manchester United).

Sitting on a bench with Chelsea barely playing a minute is not going to get him into a World Cup Squad for Spain who have tons of options.

Honestly, i believe he'd have gone to any "top side" in Europe right now in his circumstances under any manager.

I think it's more to do with him viewing Man Utd as a massive club and automatically thinking it'll have to improve/get better soon.

Nobody can argue in these circumstances it had anything to do with Moyes attracting him. World Cup selection, Manchester United the club and sky high wages - that attracted him. Moyes is more like a father-in-law he's willing to tolerate and humour if it means marrying his hot daughter (the club!).

kippy

Headshot wrote: »

The players have no control over transfer windows, team selection,tactics and background staff being appointed. The players have been poor I grant you that but its the mangers fault that he cant get the best out of the players at the moment.

Is it?

Nalz

Went to watch the game this morning again on Setanta. 4 long balls by Evans in the first 5 minutes, an over-hit pass or shot by Rooney when RVP Young and Mata all on the counter, Cleverley doing his new pass and move but move to hide thing he's consistently done this season, Smalling afraid to tackle at every opportunity and Evra scratching his hole.

Wind or not it was woeful.


Turned it off at 11 minutes

wonderfullife

kippy wrote: »

Is it?

Is that a serious question

In any workplace, in any class-room if the manager or teachers are not getting the best out of their employees or students, who carries the can?

They can sack employees or suspend students but ultimately it's their heads on the chopping block from higher up for not producing results.

It's absolutely the managers fault if he can't get the best out of his players. Simple as.

Al Capwned

wonderfullife wrote: »

Is that a serious question

In any workplace, in any class-room if the manager or teachers are not getting the best out of their employees or students, who carries the can?

They can sack employees or suspend students but ultimately it's their heads on the chopping block from higher up for not producing results.

It's absolutely the managers fault if he can't get the best out of his players. Simple as.

But football is not a normal workplace. So it's not quite as simple as you'd make out.
A plasterer for example, would not be expected to go through periods of bad form where his dashing is not as good as it used to be.

It's the kind of comparison that annoys me to be honest. The players form is just as much, if not more, a reason for our predicament as anything else.

goodolegill

a fantastic read - its hard to argue with almost anything

http://strettynews.com/a-new-unacceptable-low/

wonderfullife

"I don't know what we have to do to win," Moyes said after the game. "I thought we were extremely unlucky.

"We played well but for their first goal it was an incredible deflection and the second was a worldy.

"We should have been out of sight with the amount of opportunities we had today and we only have ourselves to blame."

First of all, what game was he watching? He makes it sound like an onslaught at the Alamo?

Stoke had 6 shots on target, Utd had 4 on target.

Nalz

I really hate the word byline now

Robson99

GSPfan wrote: »

I can't stand him. Everytime I hear him moan and complain it does my head in. Couldn't care less if he played for United.
I actually have no love for Keane but he doesn't annoy me everytime I hear his voice like Hughes.

Hughes was an excellent player for United and gave his all for us. Ince likewise and was only behind Keane, Robson and Scholes in terms of the best middle of the park players we have had in the last 30+ years. If some of the players had their guts and b**ls we would not be in the position we are in now in the league. Dont think I ever seen either Ince or Hughes half attempt a block on a ball the way Carrick turned his arse to Adams free kick yesterday.

It annoys me when fans criticise ex players who gave their all for the club while they were there. And then some of them adore Rooney who has thrown this toys out of the pram every time he feels like it and demands more money. Baffles me

wonderfullife

Al Capwned wrote: »

But football is not a normal workplace. So it's not quite as simple as you'd make out.
A plasterer for example, would not be expected to go through periods of bad form where his dashing is not as good as it used to be.

It's the kind of comparison that annoys me to be honest. The players form is just as much, if not more, a reason for our predicament as anything else.

And how do players stay "in form" and playing at their peak?

It's a combination of hard work, good quality training, confidence, arrogance, tactics and belief.

Confidence, quality of training, tactics and belief is instilled from the manager downwards.

People arguing football is a special industry and uncomparable to other forms of life are talking cobblers. Management is management in any industry or aspect of life. Whether it's managing your finances at home, managing employees at work, managing your children.......

When you manage anything, it's up to you to achieve the desired results - both the results asked of you and the results you expect from yourself.

Of all the Moyes defences, blaming the players ahead of blaming him is the most absurd.

Nalz

Robson99 wrote: »

Hughes was an excellent player for United and gave his all for us. Ince likewise and was only behind Keane, Robson and Scholes in terms of the best middle of the park players we have had in the last 30+ years. If some of the players had their guts and b**ls we would not be in the position we are in now in the league. Dont think I ever seen either Ince or Hughes half attempt a block on a ball the way Carrick turned his arse to Adams free kick yesterday.

It annoys me when fans criticise ex players who gave their all for the club while they were there. And then some of them adore Rooney who has thrown this toys out of the pram every time he feels like it and demands more money. Baffles me

+1

I know it was a different game 25 years ago (pace, laws, toughness etc) but agree thoroughly with this post. Courage should never leave the game

kippy

wonderfullife wrote: »

And how do players stay "in form" and playing at their peak?

It's a combination of hard work, good quality training, confidence, arrogance, tactics and belief.

Confidence, quality of training, tactics and belief is instilled from the manager downwards.

People arguing football is a special industry and uncomparable to other forms of life are talking cobblers. Management is management in any industry or aspect of life. Whether it's managing your finances at home, managing employees at work, managing your children.......

When you manage anything, it's up to you to achieve the desired results - both the results asked of you and the results you expect from yourself.

Of all the Moyes defences, blaming the players ahead of blaming him is the most absurd.

But its simply not a normal workplace......
Look Moyes has a lot to answer for but he is in a difficult position.....club in serious flux due to a completely different management team for the first time in 26 odd years, key players injured throughout the season, key players getting on in age, players playing poorly and he has to replace a lot of players there in the next 9 months as well as bed in other players.... time for adjustment is needed and patience is required. Moyes himself has to adjust.Those comparing it to Hodgson at Liverpool are being very unfair as far as I can see.
United will turn a corner.....it mightn't be any time in the next few months but it will happen under Moyes. So what if theres a season or two of not winning anything.....thats football.....

IamtheWalrus

wonderfullife wrote: »

"I don't know what we have to do to win," Moyes said after the game.

That quote is being harshly taken out of context. We all know what he means.

CSF

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

That quote is being harshly taken out of context. We all know what he means.

But it is quite apt all the same.

Nalz

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25890307

pre yesterdays game

wonderfullife

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

That quote is being harshly taken out of context. We all know what he means.

Double Entendre in my book.

I know well what he meant and it IS a cheap shot to read it literally.....

But it does sum up what many fans think.

beno619

Al Capwned wrote: »

But football is not a normal workplace. So it's not quite as simple as you'd make out.
A plasterer for example, would not be expected to go through periods of bad form where his dashing is not as good as it used to be.

It's the kind of comparison that annoys me to be honest. The players form is just as much, if not more, a reason for our predicament as anything else.

Were poor comparison.

Individual laborer vs team based workplace.

By large this squad has under-performed that mainly down to poor management.

wonderfullife

I know there's a real danger that the anti-Moyes stuff gets very personal to the man. Always being slated by fans. Clueless. Boring. Unimaginative. Out of his depth. Never won anything.

I think nearly all fans would agree he's a nice fella and deserves success in football and life.

But not at Manchester United.

Genuinely feel for him, he looks out of his comfort zone and almost embarrassed to be the manager at times. He doesn't talk, act or carry himself like the manager of one of the richest/biggest football clubs in the world.

Luck plays a part in football. But you shouldn't be relying on luck (good or bad) against Stoke on a windy afternoon. Keep it on the deck and outplay them. Instead he went for an approach you would see advised by parents on a windy day in Ireland in an u-15 match. "hoof it long". "use the wind". "relieve pressure on us whack it long the wind will carry it".

fatherted1969

Hughes is a legend for utd and I'll always have time for him. Ince on the other hand is an entirely different kettle of fish altogether. I'll always remember his celebration for Liverpool when he thought he'd denied utd the league. I could understand everyone else falling over themselves thinking they'd put a dent in our title hopes but Ince, nah he's no utd legend for me

Robson99

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Hughes is a legend for utd and I'll always have time for him. Ince on the other hand is an entirely different kettle of fish altogether. I'll always remember his celebration for Liverpool when he thought he'd denied utd the league. I could understand everyone else falling over themselves thinking they'd put a dent in our title hopes but Ince, nah he's no utd legend for me

I didnt refer to him as a legend. However he gave his all for us while playing and had b**ls and a will to win, something a lot of our current players lack. He was also a top class middle of the park player. He would walk into our team since the day Keane left

Thatsfootball

Just looking at yesterday's game, what manager would have expected both centre halves to be taken off within the first half. Starting Smalling can't be said as a mistake, Rafael's height might have been targeted. Also meant less attacking from full back, which maybe Moyes wanted having played Mata Rooney and RVP.

This straight away took 2/3 subs available and meant that only one of Januzaj/Hernandez could be brought on if needed (which they were). I would agree that Fletcher would have been a better option than Welbeck at the time though.

People calling for 4-2-3-1 have a point. But playing a narrow 4-2-3-1 means Evra and Rafael would be much more exposed. Evra was poor defensively yesterday, seen especially by the Odemwingie chance. We could try the Chelsea 4-2-3-1 of wingers tracking.

I think that 4-5-1/4-3-2-1 is the way forward though. Lining up something like:
Carrick Fletch/Fellaini
........Rooney.......
Young/Jan/Val....... Mata
..........RVP....

With the 2 DM's helping cover wings, while Rooney drops deeper.

GSPfan

Robson99 wrote: »

It annoys me when fans criticise ex players who gave their all for the club while they were there. And then some of them adore Rooney who has thrown this toys out of the pram every time he feels like it and demands more money. Baffles me

Baffles you cause you're a fool. Nothing in my above post has anything to do with Hughes as a player. I don't adore Rooney or ANY FOOTBALL PLAYER.

So no wonder you're baffled. If you like him then good for you. He got paid to play football for the team you support. Hardly qualifies him for the Special man love you have for him.

Danger781

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Who do all the people who want Moyes out think should replace him?

I honestly have no idea.

I don't want Mourinho anywhere near this club. He is the one manager I can think of where his ego is larger than the club itself. I'm sure he would bring us success. I have no doubt about it. But at what cost? The fact he was willing to just drop Mata, after being voted POTY twice, and sell him to a rival PL team rings alarm bells for me.

I'd like to see a young manager come in. Guardiola would be ideal but there is 0% chance of that happening. I reckon he is at Bayern for the long run unless something drastic changes over there.

What about Pochettino? Given the opportunity I think he would definitely come. He went to Soton in the first place because of the chairman and he's gone now. Southampton have become a fantastic team since he took over.

Edit: Just to clarify, Moyes will still be here next season, unless he makes the decision himself to leave. I don't see that happening. Moyes will be judged on the performances of next season.

yabadabado

Danger781 wrote: »

What about Pochettino? Given the opportunity I think he would definitely come. He went to Soton in the first place because of the chairman and he's gone now. Southampton have become a fantastic team since he took over.

Edit: Just to clarify, Moyes will still be here next season, unless he makes the decision himself to leave. I don't see that happening. Moyes will be judged on the performances of next season.

Pochettino,are you serious?

Danger781

yabadabado wrote: »

Pochettino,are you serious?

Why not? It was just a suggestion. I'd like to get peoples views on him as opposed to just a 'No'.

Before his arrival, Soton were hardly an impressive team. They only came back to the league in 2012/2013 after being relegated the year before and now they're only 5 points off us with an impressive number of clean sheets and some very decent results.

yabadabado

Danger781 wrote: »

Why not? It was just a suggestion. I'd like to get peoples views on him as opposed to just a 'No'.

Before his arrival, Soton were hardly an impressive team. They only came back to the league in 2012/2013 after being relegated the year before and now they're only 5 points off us with an impressive number of clean sheets and some very decent results.

The same reasons that were leveled at Moyes that he has done nothing to show he is capable of managing United and has no experience at the top level or in European competition,applies to Poc and more so.

He has done OK ,they have a brilliant youth set up and he has had plenty of money to spend.They had actually started to improve before Atkins got sacked.

.

Augmerson

I think United need at least 75-100 million in the summer to rebuild.

titan18

Danger781 wrote: »

Why not? It was just a suggestion. I'd like to get peoples views on him as opposed to just a 'No'.

Before his arrival, Soton were hardly an impressive team. They only came back to the league in 2012/2013 after being relegated the year before and now they're only 5 points off us with an impressive number of clean sheets and some very decent results.

Doesn't have enough experience, and can't really judge his record in transfers and building a side.

I'd suggest (even if most wouldn't leave their sides)
Klopp
Simeone
Conte
Blanc
Rudi Garcia

Saucy McKetchup

Danger781 wrote: »

Why not? It was just a suggestion. I'd like to get peoples views on him as opposed to just a 'No'.

Before his arrival, Soton were hardly an impressive team. They only came back to the league in 2012/2013 after being relegated the year before and now they're only 5 points off us with an impressive number of clean sheets and some very decent results.

It'd be fairly similar to the moyes appointment, if moyes is sacked or leaves you'd expect the likes of guardiola or mourinho to be sounded out for the job

Discodog

Trilla wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25890307

pre yesterdays game

All these articles stressing how good Moyes is. According to this one his motto is "if in doubt - work". So if in doubt just do more of what you are doing wrong. If in doubt you need to stop & assess what you are doing wrong.

It also says that he watches replays to determine what went wrong & how to rectify it. Yet he keeps repeating the same mistakes.

I used to think that, in his latter years, that SAF was too old school especially tactically. Moyes seems even worse.

Discodog

titan18 wrote: »

Doesn't have enough experience, and can't really judge his record in transfers and building a side.

I'd suggest (even if most wouldn't leave their sides)
Klopp
Simeone
Conte
Blanc
Rudi Garcia

Given SAF's opinion & friendship plus his history, Blanc would be a possibility.