Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

NaiveMelodies

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

It shows how bad the midfield is when your fans are drooling over the prospect of signing an ex youth player who left for nothing, pogba is unproven in the premier league, he's playing well in an average Italian league, I don't think he's the answer to our midfield woes.

Also shows how bad the midfield is when a man who has been seriously ill for the last 2 years has been our best performer in the middle since his return!

beno619

magnumbud wrote: »

are everton gone to another level? they may be playing slightly better football sure but they have been in their current position before and have finished better under moyes.

people are going on because of this first 4 months of the season that martinez must be a better manager than moyes all im saying is that track records of both should not be forgotten in saying one is better than the other and that 4 months does not mean much in the big picture.

As of right now they are fighting for the top 4 in the most competitive season in recent memory while playing much more attractive football and have a tighter defence than Uniteds. There are no gaurantee's they will keep it up but as of right now they are a top side.

Im not saying Martinez is a better manager im saying he is performing far better at his new job than Moyes is, which some people cant seem to see in Everton's league position, performances and transfers/loans vs United's.

Or are we meant to accept that Moyes left Matinez with an easy job while Fergie left Moyes with a squad that would struggle to qualify for europe.

magnumbud

only1stevo wrote: »

Don't understand this.
Re-signing him would be fantastic from a footballing perspective.
Unless your a fan because of our ability to balance the books then why does it bother people what we pay? Not your money...

again im not saying it would be bad and that we shouldnt do it im saying it makes the f*ck up to leave him go worse.

Saucy McKetchup

magnumbud wrote: »

thats insanely harsh it was clear to see day one that we had something special with that boy much like we do with januzaj now. with him in our team now we would be far better.

Pogba was given run outs in the first team and looked completely lost in the middle of the park, he's not proven in the premier league, that's not to say he won't be a great player but he's not the answer to our midfield problems at the moment, we need someone to walk straight into the starting line-up and that someone isn't pogba

kryogen

beno619 wrote: »

Baines and Jagielka had both performed very well in the premier league before their moves to Everton.Im not trying to diminish what Moyes did at Everton because he was a fantastic manger for them.

Im just addressing the fact that in Martinez's first 6 months at Everton they have gone to a another level while United have regressed under Moyes.
There are numerous reasons for this,but to say Martinez's success is all thanks to Moyes, while ignoring the fact that Fergie left Moyes a squad capable of challenging with a few additions.

Matinez has improved Everton loan players or not, something Moyes has failed to do at United.





Martinez worked with an even smaller budget and delivered the club a trophy. Im not forgetting the last 4 years, but what does that have to do with how both managers have performed in their new jobs ? Martinez has Moyes has not.

Im sorry now, but to make break it down to such a simple explanation is ridiculous.

The situation at United is very different to Everton, its certainly hasnt been a level playing field, Martinez has not been missing players like RVP, Carrick, Vidic et al for most of the season

How do you think they would be doing if Lukakau, Barry and Jagielka got injured for any length of time?

They have had to deal with very different situations this season and a straight up comparison would take a lot more then just Martinez has improved Everton and Moyes hasnt, there are mitigating factors.

Martinez came to a club with settled back five, that is recognised as the best united in the league, going by team of the year, it is certainly very good and very settled.

You can build on that

United back five is anything but settled, harder to build on and get consistency with. This is just one thing that must be looked at in greater detail before deciding anything.

I would think most people can see that its not as simple as has been portrayed

Edit: Baines and Jagielka were nowher near the level they are now before they came to the club

NaiveMelodies

magnumbud wrote: »

again im not saying it would be bad and that we shouldnt do it im saying it makes the f*ck up to leave him go worse.

Fair enough, the f*ck up would soon be forgotten though!!

Giggsy11

Your Airbag wrote: »

Its not money from my pocket so I get your point, buy him and be done with it but still its a bit silly that we would have to negotiate and buy him back for millions when all Fergie had to do was give him some first team action. The signing would be good but the loss of money and time Pogba could have spent in our first team already is not something to be happy about.

Yeah shouldn't have let him go but we did. But if we have any chance we should buy him, better to spend on player and improve the team than sitting in Glazers accounts

beno619

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Pogba was given run outs in the first team and looked completely lost in the middle of the park, he's not proven in the premier league, that's not to say he won't be a great player but he's not the answer to our midfield problems at the moment, we need someone to walk straight into the starting line-up and that someone isn't pogba

He looked far from lost and gave an energy and excitement that Anderson did in his early days and that was with very few minutes.

Dont blame him for leaving Fergie made a balls of that Blackburn game and we should have payed up the money a young player of his ability commands these days.

Saucy McKetchup

beno619 wrote: »

He looked far from lost and gave an energy and excitement that Anderson did in his early days and that was with very few minutes.

Dont blame him for leaving Fergie made a balls of that Blackburn game and we should have payed up the money a young player of his ability commands these days.

I don't blame him for leaving, I think in time he would have been great at united but not just yet, at the moment we need someone who would walk into the team, I don't think pogba's ready to do that, Vidal on the other hand.........

beno619

kryogen wrote: »

Im sorry now, but to make break it down to such a simple explanation is ridiculous.

The situation at United is very different to Everton, its certainly hasnt been a level playing field, Martinez has not been missing players like RVP, Carrick, Vidic et al for most of the season

How do you think they would be doing if Lukakau, Barry and Jagielka got injured for any length of time?

They have had to deal with very different situations this season and a straight up comparison would take a lot more then just Martinez has improved Everton and Moyes hasnt, there are mitigating factors.

Martinez came to a club with settled back five, that is recognised as the best united in the league, going by team of the year, it is certainly very good and very settled.

You can build on that

United back five is anything but settled, harder to build on and get consistency with. This is just one thing that must be looked at in greater detail before deciding anything.

I would think most people can see that its not as simple as has been portrayed

Edit: Baines and Jagielka were nowher near the level they are now before they came to the club

Its clearly not that simple but at the end of the day Martinez has excelled while Moyes or are we going to pretend that Moyes has gotten the most out of the players available to him.

Anyway my point wasn't to criticise Moyes any more than he has been.

Martinez has improved Everton which was what the Everton poster was saying I dont think that can be denied based on the first 4 months of the season.

He hardly plucked Baines and Jakielka out of obscurity, but they had both had good seasons at Sheffield United and Wigan respectively and improved under Moyes and a better club.

magnumbud

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Pogba was given run outs in the first team and looked completely lost in the middle of the park, he's not proven in the premier league, that's not to say he won't be a great player but he's not the answer to our midfield problems at the moment, we need someone to walk straight into the starting line-up and that someone isn't pogba

he played 3 games???? 3 sub appearences in fact and a few league cup and CL totaling up to 7 games at 18(and maybe he was not ready for more at that time) he is now 2 years of playing week in week out in italy (sure its a poor league but the english league is not the top league anymore not even sure if its top 3) and playing in loads of CL games too. he would walk into our first 11 now.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Yeah shouldn't have let him go but we did. But if we have any chance we should buy him, better to spend on player and improve the team than sitting in Glazers accounts

lol i wish i never said it now. pure and simply i did not mean spend the money my issue is we have to cause we let him go for free and that money could go to signing more players as no matter what we keep hearing about a war chest im not convinced its there and fear we are just being told it by the board etc to keep us happy

Mitch Connor

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

It shows how bad the midfield is when your fans are drooling over the prospect of signing an ex youth player who left for nothing, pogba is unproven in the premier league, he's playing well in an average Italian league, I don't think he's the answer to our midfield woes.

No - we would be excited over signing one of the best young central midfielders in football. Was a fook up by the club to let him go, but you say ex-united player as if we are talking about bringing Gibson back.

Saucy McKetchup

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No - we would be excited over signing one of the best young central midfielders in football. Was a fook up by the club to let him go, but you say ex-united player as if we are talking about bringing Gibson back.

Even Darren Gibson would improve the midfield at this stage:pac:

Saucy McKetchup

magnumbud wrote: »

he played 3 games???? 3 sub appearences in fact and a few league cup and CL totaling up to 7 games at 18(and maybe he was not ready for more at that time) he is now 2 years of playing week in week out in italy (sure its a poor league but the english league is not the top league anymore not even sure if its top 3) and playing in loads of CL games too. he would walk into our first 11 now

If a year he'd probably walk into the first 11 but not now, he'd need to be eased into life in the premier league, if we sign him then great, one for the future but like I said it won't solve our current midfield problems

s_carnage

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

I don't blame him for leaving, I think in time he would have been great at united but not just yet, at the moment we need someone who would walk into the team, I don't think pogba's ready to do that, Vidal on the other hand.........

What player in our current team would keep Pogba from starting?!!? He'd walk into our starting XI right now. No question about it.

All you need to do is look at the quality of players Juve have at the moment in midfield compared to us and Pogba is a regular in that team

keane2097

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Pogba was given run outs in the first team and looked completely lost in the middle of the park

Sorry, when did this happen?

yabadabado

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Pogba was given run outs in the first team and looked completely lost in the middle of the park, he's not proven in the premier league, that's not to say he won't be a great player but he's not the answer to our midfield problems at the moment, we need someone to walk straight into the starting line-up and that someone isn't pogba

hold on for a minute he made 3 EPL appearances and got 71 minutes in total and had 131 minutes in league cup/europa.
No way anyone can judge a player based on those minutes and he was only 18 .
He made over 30 appearances for Juve in Serie A and Cl last season and has improved immensely since he left United.
If he can get into the Juve midfield on a regular basis with the players they have in that position I have no doubt he would go straight into the United starting XI.

I would still prefer Vidal but Pogba would be a huge improvement to what we have available.

Mitch Connor

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

If a year he'd probably walk into the first 11 but not now, he'd need to be eased into life in the premier league, if we sign him then great, one for the future but like I said it won't solve our current midfield problems

He would walk straight into our midfield, right now.

A better CM than Cleveley, Giggs, Fletcher and Jones. Would argue better than Fellaini as well but I rally don't think we have seen Fellaini really do himself credit yet. Long term I would say a better bet than Fellaini, easily, though.

Pogba would instantly and significantly improve our midfield. He wouldn't solve all our problems (no one player could, imo) but he would be an excellent half of the solution.

Saucy McKetchup

Ok, ok, if I'm proven wrong I'll gladly admit it but I just don't see him as the answer to our problems

KH25

Pogba would need time LOL

kryogen

beno619 wrote: »

Its clearly not that simple but at the end of the day Martinez has excelled while Moyes or are we going to pretend that Moyes has gotten the most out of the players available to him.

Anyway my point wasn't to criticise Moyes any more than he has been.

Martinez has improved Everton which was what the Everton poster was saying I dont think that can be denied based on the first 4 months of the season.

He hardly plucked Baines and Jakielka out of obscurity, but they had both had good seasons at Sheffield United and Wigan respectively and improved under Moyes and a better club.

How about Howard then? Flopped at United
Arteta?
Cahill?
Stones and Oviedo are both Moyes signings
Coleman, Fellaini, Pienaar, Fernandes

He is well able to spot a player, except a striker it seems

Half a season is a poor sample size to be judging on and Martinez has excelled is a bit strong anyway, he has them no higher in the table then they were last year and we have yet to see where he will finish with them

Cantona's Collars

Sporting Lisbon want Nani but can't afford the transfer fee,we should push for one of their players so.Juve also want him,we ask for Marchisio as part of the deal.

I reckon Nani could prove to be a good bargaining chip in this window,it's clear that Moyes wants rid so why not use this to our advantage.

v3ttel

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Pogba was given run outs in the first team and looked completely lost in the middle of the park

This is a worthless comment. Firstly, he played very, very limited minutes. There is no way that you could form any reasonable judgement in this time.

Secondly, it was his first experience of first team football, nerves, etc are a factor.

Thirdly, IMHO, from the very limited time he did play, he did not stand out as looking out of place, or doing anything to warrant the label of being "lost".

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

he's not proven in the premier league,

This is a terrible, terrible argument, akin to the "Messi hasn't done it on a wet windy night at Stoke". Proven in the Premier League is a bonus when weighing up a move for a particular player. It should not be seen as a negative against another.

Are Vidal, Schweinstiger, Javi Martinez, etc proven in the Premier League? No.

Are they quality? Yes.

Would they improve Uniteds center midfield? Yes.

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

he's not the answer to our midfield problems at the moment, we need someone to walk straight into the starting line-up and that someone isn't pogba

Pogba is not good enough for our starting line up or would improve our starting 11?

Oh ok, sorry, I'm a bit slow. I realise that this entire post was a wind up.

Mitch Connor

Matic confirming to A Bola that he is re-signing for Chelsea. Feck sake.

Quality player who would greatly improve us, in a position of need, going to a rival for a little over 20million.

Said he should be a top target this window. Said he was available. Said he would leave Benfica. Maybe he would have signed for Chelsea anyway, but another player United who United could really do with, and whom we have done nothing to sign. Matic is going to be a top midfielder in the PL, no doubt about that imo. Gutted.

KH25

I would rather see Nani stay and nail down the RW spot, but sadly that looks impossible. Moyes and Fergie for whatever reason have had far less patience with him compared to Valencia. If we move him on I could deal with it as long as a strong CM comes in as replacement.

kryogen

zerks wrote: »

Sporting Lisbon want Nani but can't afford the transfer fee,we should push for one of their players so.Juve also want him,we ask for Marchisio as part of the deal.

I reckon Nani could prove to be a good bargaining chip in this window,it's clear that Moyes wants rid so why not use this to our advantage.

Dunno if its clear, Nani has been injured, Moyes gave him a new contract and said he is part of his plans. He may well want rid, but I wouldnt say its clear

Giggsy11

zerks wrote: »

Sporting Lisbon want Nani but can't afford the transfer fee,we should push for one of their players so.Juve also want him,we ask for Marchisio as part of the deal.

I reckon Nani could prove to be a good bargaining chip in this window,it's clear that Moyes wants rid so why not use this to our advantage.

William Carvalho is getting much hype. One of my Portuguese friend (ManUtd supporter) rates him very highly and said he is too good for Sporting at very young age.

ericzeking

Fergie may have got it wrong with Pogba in hindsight but over the course of his tenure his strategy of keeping players in their place did us far more good than bad.

It was the right decision at the time, SAF was not going to be dictated to as to when and where he would blood an 18 year old by that self same 18 year old and his agent.

Still though looks like he'd be a good signing now.

Saucy McKetchup

v3ttel wrote: »

This is a worthless comment. Firstly, he played very, very limited minutes. There is no way that you could form any reasonable judgement in this time.

Secondly, it was his first experience of first team football, nerves, etc are a factor.

Thirdly, IMHO, from the very limited time he did play, he did not stand out as looking out of place, or doing anything to warrant the label of being "lost".



This is a terrible, terrible argument, akin to the "Messi hasn't done it on a wet windy night at Stoke". Proven in the Premier League is a bonus when weighing up a move for a particular player. It should not be seen as a negative against another.

Are Vidal, Schweinstiger, Javi Martinez, etc proven in the Premier League? No.

Are they quality? Yes.

Would they improve Uniteds center midfield? Yes.



Pogba is not good enough for our starting line up or would improve our starting 11?

Oh ok, sorry, I'm a bit slow. I realise that this entire post was a wind up.

I'm not in the wind up, it's my opinion and I stand by it.:)

Timmyctc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Matic confirming to A Bola that he is re-signing for Chelsea. Feck sake.

Quality player who would greatly improve us, in a position of need, going to a rival for a little over 20million.

Said he should be a top target this window. Said he was available. Said he would leave Benfica. Maybe he would have signed for Chelsea anyway, but another player United who United could really do with, and whom we have done nothing to sign. Matic is going to be a top midfielder in the PL, no doubt about that imo. Gutted.

I heard we bid for Matic and he turned us down. If Chelsea were in he is always going to go back there.

kryogen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Matic confirming to A Bola that he is re-signing for Chelsea. Feck sake.

Quality player who would greatly improve us, in a position of need, going to a rival for a little over 20million.

Said he should be a top target this window. Said he was available. Said he would leave Benfica. Maybe he would have signed for Chelsea anyway, but another player United who United could really do with, and whom we have done nothing to sign. Matic is going to be a top midfielder in the PL, no doubt about that imo. Gutted.

Yeah, saw it this morning, you dont know though that we didnt try and move for him, I would think Chelsea had the inside track on him as I have already mentioned, and he would be a great signing at 22million, I hope the club did enquire about him at the very least, but realistically we have no way of knowing.

beno619

kryogen wrote: »

How about Howard then? Flopped at United
Arteta?
Cahill?
Stones and Oviedo are both Moyes signings
Coleman, Fellaini, Pienaar, Fernandes

He is well able to spot a player, except a striker it seems

Half a season is a poor sample size to be judging on and Martinez has excelled is a bit strong anyway, he has them no higher in the table then they were last year and we have yet to see where he will finish with them

Again im not diminishing Moyes achievements at Everton. He did a fantastic job there.

Excelled maybe strong but it's true. Everton are arguably playing better than ever and have lost the fewest games this season. The sample size is small but history is history. It would be interesting to see what happens when they lose a few players to injury though.

ericzeking

Here's one, do you know who I always thought would be class for us in the centre of the park...Rodrigo Possebon...got a bad injury in a league cup game against Middlesboro, career petered out afterwards, pity.

GSPfan

I'm starting to believe that United are gonna have all their signings ready to go at the start of the Summer window. I think all the transfer talk now is really the Summer talk.

Gundogan, Vidal, Pogba, Baines, Shaw, Barkley, etc.

If the Summer transfer window opened and we started hoovering up great players then I'll enjoy the Summer and the World Cup. But if they play the waiting game again I'm gonna hate every day of the Summer window.

Liam O

I think Pogba's lack of minutes was indication that he was off regardless of playing time. I'm sure he and his agent got a huge payoff from that deal, and look now, a year and a half later looking for another one? If he had committed to United he would have seen the minutes but Fergie obviously didn't want to bother developing a player purely for the benefit of a potential European rival.

jonnyfingers

ericzeking wrote: »

Fergie may have got it wrong with Pogba in hindsight but over the course of his tenure his strategy of keeping players in their place did us far more good than bad.

It was the right decision at the time, SAF was not going to be dictated to as to when and where he would blood an 18 year old by that self same 18 year old and his agent.

Still though looks like he'd be a good signing now.

I agree with this. Pogba, possibly due to his agent, was very sure of himself for a young inexperienced player. I think SAF wanted to keep him but on his own terms. So Pogba suffered a fate many other players have that spoke up against SAF, he was shown the door. Yes I think he should have been treated better by the manager and have had some more game time, but the players attitude was a contributing factor too.

If he was to resign I would wonder if that attitude might turn his head again in a few years. But that doesn't really matter right now, he would definitely do a job for us in the short term so would be happy to see him back.

kryogen

Timmyctc wrote: »

I heard we bid for Matic and he turned us down. If Chelsea were in he is always going to go back there.

I heard we went for him alright and were told that Chelsea had been in touch and he indicated he would prefer a move there.

No way to prove it though

kryogen

Liam O wrote: »

I think Pogba's lack of minutes was indication that he was off regardless of playing time. I'm sure he and his agent got a huge payoff from that deal, and look now, a year and a half later looking for another one? If he had committed to United he would have seen the minutes but Fergie obviously didn't want to bother developing a player purely for the benefit of a potential European rival.

His agent is pond scum tbf

GSPfan

In fairness to Pogba, If he is unsettled in Italy it may have more to do with his ambition to be the best in the World and also the reality of being a black man in Italian football. It can't be easy dealing with the racist stuff in Italy. It surely spills over to his daily life too.

He wants to be the best, he will not realise that at Juventus. The money just isn't there for them to compete against the Munichs, Barca's, Real's and even PSG's.

I'd love to see him back at United. May never happen but I couldn't really criticise him for wanting to leave Juventus 'for money' when there could be much easier explanations why he wants to leave.

jonnyfingers

So it's still pretty quiet on the transfer side of things. Any more rumours even today? At this stage I'd be delighted to get Powell back from on loan.

keane2097

kryogen wrote: »

His agent is pond scum tbf

His agent's job is to do right by the player and he did an absolutely brilliant job.

Unless there are other things he has done to be considered pond scum?

Lucas Hood

ericzeking wrote: »

Here's one, do you know who I always thought would be class for us in the centre of the park...Rodrigo Possebon...got a bad injury in a league cup game against Middlesboro, career petered out afterwards, pity.

People remember the challenge and assume it was a bad injury but in reality he only missed a month .


I think it affected him more mentally than physically .

keane2097

GSPfan wrote: »

In fairness to Pogba, If he is unsettled in Italy it may have more to do with his ambition to be the best in the World and also the reality of being a black man in Italian football. It can't be easy dealing with the racist stuff in Italy. It surely spills over to his daily life too.

To think the Romans had black Emperors 1800 years ago

Kerrydude1981

jonnyfingers wrote: »

So it's still pretty quiet on the transfer side of things. Any more rumours even today? At this stage I'd be delighted to get Powell back from on loan.

I follow all the transfer rumours on here,

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Sport/Football

v3ttel

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

I'm not in the wind up, it's my opinion and I stand by it.:)

Fair enough so. You are entitled to it.

I don't think you'll get too many agreeing though.

Saucy McKetchup

v3ttel wrote: »

Fair enough so. You are entitled to it.

I don't think you'll get too many agreeing though.

I see that:pac:

kryogen

keane2097 wrote: »

His agent's job is to do right by the player and he did an absolutely brilliant job.

Unless there are other things he has done to be considered pond scum?

meh, no real desire in discussing him at length, look him up if you like, Mino Raiola.

Al Capwned

ericzeking wrote: »

Here's one, do you know who I always thought would be class for us in the centre of the park...Rodrigo Possebon...got a bad injury in a league cup game against Middlesboro, career petered out afterwards, pity.

And also had a brilliant song sung about him.

Giggsy11

GSPfan wrote: »

In fairness to Pogba, If he is unsettled in Italy it may have more to do with his ambition to be the best in the World and also the reality of being a black man in Italian football. It can't be easy dealing with the racist stuff in Italy. It surely spills over to his daily life too.

He wants to be the best, he will not realise that at Juventus. The money just isn't there for them to compete against the Munichs, Barca's, Real's and even PSG's.

I'd love to see him back at United. May never happen but I couldn't really criticise him for wanting to leave Juventus 'for money' when there could be much easier explanations why he wants to leave.

In a recent interview he said Racism is everywhere and gave Terry and Suarez example talking about England. He is settled nicely there.

kryogen

Al Capwned wrote: »

And also had a brilliant song sung about him.

The injury, then the loan, finished him alright