Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

kryogen

People do understand that Anderson is physically fit right?

The fat jokes can be fun alright, but it is understood that he has a great physique right?

Right?

Rayne Wooney

I read somewhere that Ando has only competed 20 something percent of games he's started for United, if that's true it really takes the cake, he needs to get himself straight

Burt Macklin

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I read somewhere that Ando has only competed 20 something percent of games he's started for United, if that's true it really takes the cake, he needs to get himself straight

He made 104 league appearances, but in his 70 starts he was subbed off 51 times, meaning he completed only 19 matches: this is around two and a half full league games for each of the seven years at the club.

Burt Macklin

All fat jokes aside, it really is a shame it didn't work out for him. As someone pointed out already on this thread he won the Golden Boy award in 2008 for best young player in Europe, and when he signed he was hyped as the next Ronaldinho. I read somewhere as well that Martin Ferguson (who scouted him) described him to Fergie as better than Rooney.

Part of the problem was that he was bought as an attacking midfielder who played behind the strikers, and moulded into a box to box central midfielder. Then there were the obvious problems with his fitness and weight.

Having said that he's had plenty of chances, and probably should have gone before now.
Hopefully this means that Moyes is freeing up space for a new CM. Not getting my hopes up though.

IvySlayer

He's just another victim of Fergie trying to convert players into central midfielders :P

Saucy McKetchup

Hopefully another couple of players are shipped out before the end of the window, the remaining players might take notice and realise that their positions are under threat if they don't start performing

bucketybuck

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I can never get behind this kind of analysis because it assumes that there would have been no player on the pitch to replace RVP. There would have, and we can't know if / how many times they would have scored.

Exactly. If RVP hadn't been there Rooney would have been playing right up front, and the previous season Rooney had scored 27 league goals in 34 games playing that position. Hardly a bad option is it?

kryogen

Burt Macklin wrote: »

He made 104 appearances, but in his 70 starts he was subbed off 51 times, meaning he completed only 19 matches: this is around two and a half full games for each of the seven years at the club

179 no?

Average of about 30 games a season?


Edit:

Yep here it is

http://www.aboutmanutd.com/man-u-players/oliveira-anderson.html

179, 127 starts, 52 sub apps

Burt Macklin

kryogen wrote: »

179 no?

Average of about 30 games a season?


Edit:

Yep here it is

http://www.aboutmanutd.com/man-u-players/oliveira-anderson.html

179, 127 starts, 52 sub apps

I was only talking about premier league appearances. Looking back on my post, I realise my wording was wrong. Regardless, playing for a full 90 minutes only 19 times in seven league seasons is appalling.

kryogen

Pedant hat on - hasnt been a full 7 seasons, this is his 7th season now - pedant hat off, how has he managed to stay at the club so long

Cantona's Collars

These are interesting stats regarding our most important midfielder this season.I didn't realise we overestimated our reliance on Carrick.

Total games played: 21

Total points: 37

Total points per game: 1.76

Games played with Michael Carrick: 13

Points with Michael Carrick: 23 (W7, D2, L4)

Points per game with Michael Carrick: 1.76


Games played without Michael Carrick: 8

Points without Michael Carrick: 14 (W4, D2, L2)

Points per game without Michael Carrick: 1.75



Games played with Phil Jones/Darren Fletcher: 15

Points with Phil Jones/Darren Fletcher: 33 (W10, D3, L2)

Points per game with Phil Jones/Darren Fletcher: 2.2

Interesting that those stats improve when we have a more mobile/tenacious midfielder.
For all his good traits,Carrick doesn't lend himself to the high tempo game that we need to play.

onemorechance

Carrick, one of United's best performers for the last few seasons and the star (along with RVP) of last season's title winning campaign, he's suddenly now United's weakness!? :eek:

The_Kew_Tour

Man United have won 0 points from goals scored in the last 10 mins aka "Fergie-Time" this season compared to 11 this time last season. #MUFC

TheBunk1

newballsplease wrote: »

Who put up the image last summer of Principle Skinner looking through the telescope with Bart...? Anyone know what im on about?

That was me I believe...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86331544

Still half of the window left this time, I think we'll get someone in before it closes. CM hopefully.

The_Kew_Tour

Moreno all but done and dusted to Madrid apparently

Cantona's Collars

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Too many seemed resigned to defeat when we went behind in games.

I want to see Moyes pull up at Carrington in the A-Team van with Matuidi,Hamsik,Moura,Coentrao,Vidal & Ribeiro jumping out of the back.

zarquon

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Moreno all but done and dusted to Madrid apparently

It's breaking news in the Sevilla media. It looks like Coentrao is now surplus to requirements. I'd be very surprised if Coentrao isn't winging his way to Manchester soon

Cantona's Collars

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Moreno all but done and dusted to Madrid apparently

Morata has told the club he wants to leave,already has offers from Arsenal, Spurs, Inter, Juve, Fiorentina, Dortmund, Schalke, Sevilla and Villarreal.

beno619

kryogen wrote: »

Pedant hat on - hasnt been a full 7 seasons, this is his 7th season now - pedant hat off, how has he managed to stay at the club so long

Clearly had ability so Fergie kept him around hoping he would get over his problems.

Whatsisname

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Moreno all but done and dusted to Madrid apparently

After just reading deadline night on this (I never had the chance to back then), coming back here to read that was a pleasant sight, lets hope Seville Radio are right!

Cantona's Collars

beno619 wrote: »

Clearly had ability so Fergie kept him around hoping he would get over his problems.

4 premier league trophies, 2 league cups, 1 Champions League, 3 Champions League finals, 1 Club World Cup.

Not a bad haul for a fella who hardly played.

(Still 4 more league titles than Gerard):pac:

lordgoat

Nice result in the youth cup. Saw the game out well in extra time.

The_Kew_Tour

lordgoat wrote: »

Nice result in the youth cup. Saw the game out well in extra time.

Really should have won it in normal time.

Win is a win though.

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Moreno all but done and dusted to Madrid apparently

Whats the source?

To be exact, is anything other then Marca ?

Though they do get stuff about Madrid right alot with their connection

The_Kew_Tour

kryogen wrote: »

Whats the source?

To be exact, is anything other then Marca ?

Though they do get stuff about Madrid right alot with their connection

Main paper and Radio station in Saveille.

Cantona's Collars

kryogen wrote: »

Whats the source?

To be exact, is anything other then Marca ?

Though they do get stuff about Madrid right alot with their connection

Sevilla Radio,gone to Madrid for €21 million.

Watch as we wait until 11.45 pm on deadline day to complete a deal for Coentrao.

kryogen

zerks wrote: »

Morata has told the club he wants to leave,already has offers from Arsenal, Spurs, Inter, Juve, Fiorentina, Dortmund, Schalke, Sevilla and Villarreal.

Morata?

Alvaro Morata? Had heard Arsenal made contact about a loan for him, are the offers loan offers?

Wouldnt mind seeing him signed, he could do a job left wing, or right wing actually since we are not exactly short on strikers.

Obviously not a priority right now, but there is a seriously good potential upside with him for the future taking into consideration RVP's age and Rooney's possible exit sometime over the next couple of years

Rayne Wooney

Coentrao and a midfielder to replace Ando and I'll be happy

kryogen

beno619 wrote: »

Clearly had ability so Fergie kept him around hoping he would get over his problems.

He did start to lose his ruthlessness as he got older unfortunately, you wont find a bigger fan or defender of Anderson then me, but we are into his 7th season, he has never progressed past squad player status when the midfield has been crying out for investment and top quality to push it on.

Hopefully the move reinvigorates him and he can close to the player he could have become for us but for a combination of many factors, which I wont go into as arguments will follow

The_Kew_Tour

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Coentrao and a midfielder to replace Ando and I'll be happy

kryogen

zerks wrote: »

4 premier league trophies, 2 league cups, 1 Champions League, 3 Champions League finals, 1 Club World Cup.

Not a bad haul for a fella who hardly played.

(Still 4 more league titles than Gerard):pac:

Its that trophy haul and his obvious class that has me hoping the loan is a success as he will go for a fee not befitting a player of his ability otherwise He needs to prove his fitness, hell, as I said if he does well there bring him back and keep him!

Rayne Wooney

:pac:

Dare I say he'd be an improvement...

Cantona's Collars

Moyes is under pressure to make signings in the transfer window.

A senior United source told Starsport he can spend in excess of £100m if he wants to.

I know it's the Star but surely Moyes & Neville aren't going to games all over Europe for the craic.

kryogen

If we do sign Coentrao and AN Other for CM, I really hope people dont get up in a heap if they dont hit the ground running you know. It is more likely that a bedding in period will be required. Heres hoping though!

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

:pac:

Dare I say he'd be an improvement...

Think we can rule him out though, signed a new contract recently :P

The_Kew_Tour

Reid in fairness has lost lot of weight and I cant really talk:P

He did ping the ball around the field against Germany all those years ago at Croker. Should be a PL player for decent side. Wasted.

Mikeyt086

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Coentrao and a midfielder to replace Ando and I'll be happy

Happy?

Jesus, thats full on Tigger status right there.

newballsplease

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I remember it all right, but not who posted it.

Something along the lines of giving the declination, then the right ascention.. no signing. Gave me a chuckle.

Six hours, nineteen minutes, right ascension, fourteen degrees, twenty-three minutes declination... no signing !


Was a class post ! Whoever did it!

Al Capwned

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Happy?

Jesus, thats full on Tigger status right there.

Read that as Trigger cos I've seen it so much today!

:pac:

As ye were....

fatherted1969

Al Capwned wrote: »

Brilliant. (Could have said we'd chip in with the wages) Haha

Weight and see will he sign before you comment :-)

Red Crow

There was a clear hint of desperation towards the end of the Summer transfer window. The bid for Herrera, a player, who by all accounts, we haven't gone back in for and frankly isn't good enough. The increased bids for Baines on deadline day and the last minute scramble for Coentrao. Moyes has learned to not air out his dirty laundry in public. We were used by Fabregas and his agent to secure assurances about his position at Barcelona. This time I think he's learned a bit more. While we clearly need the players to come in there isn't the same air of desperation about our business.

Personally, I hope there is no business done in this window. Why? Well I think any deal we're going to do this month is going to be a mistake. It's six months to the World Cup. What good midfielder is going to want to make such a big switch? None. Ideally, I'd love to see some talent brought in but it's not an ideal world and business in January is hard enough to do as it is, never mind with less six months to the start of the World Cup. Everybody in the last while points out that good January business has been done recently such as Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge. Sturridge was clearly and underachiever with Chelsea, a couple of weeks before his move he played against us in the League Cup and I don't think I've ever seen a more ineffective performance from a striker at Old Trafford. He paid off for Rodgers. He was certainly a huge risk and a player of that type is certainly not who I'd want David Moyes signing with the pressure that he's under.

Coutinho didn't play well for Inter and didn't play well for Espanyol. Again, another player Rodgers took a gamble on and he's looked okay up to now, not convinced by him at all as of yet. Another good player, but not top quality. Not somebody you should be polishing as a star of the Janaury transfer window and then there is Suarez who was itching for a move from Ajax form the previous Summer. No club was taking the gamble on him due to his poor record with clubs, trying to force a move to Ajax. You can see why clubs stayed away as he wasn't the talent he is now.

Everybody seems to forget about the bad signings: Andy Carroll, Ferdnando Torres, Fernando Morientes, Savio Nsereko (£10M!), Christopher Samba, Afonso Alves and you could go on and on. The fact is that the January window largely remains one with a deep correlation of poor signings and desperate clubs.

We aren't going to get a Vidal, Gundogan or Marchiso in this window so what's the point in signing a midfielder for the sake of it when we have Darren Fletcher back, Fellaini returning from injury, hopefully an injury-free second half of the season from Michael Carrick and then you have Jones who also contributed well in midfield this year, pre-injury. We need to start signing the right players and you have the feel that in the Summer there is going to be a good bit of spending done but you would think that if Moyes and Woodward really thought that they could sign a player then the deal would of been effectively done by now. It's obviously a hard window to do business in anyway and I don't think signing a Herrera or whoever is going to make a contribution to the team this year.

Thinking about it more I'd have much more faith in Moyes to make the right deal in June rather than a forced deal in January. The top guys aren't moving in this window so any player we're going to get in is going to be clearly a level below that. We need a top midfielder so I don't see the problem in waiting until the Summer. We all recognise that the Manager needs to have a bit of a clear out and be given a chance to make the team his own. I think signing someone at this stage will show that the pressure is getting to him.

sReq | uTeK

Red Crow wrote: »

There was a clear hint of desperation towards the end of the Summer transfer window. The bid for Herrera, a player, who by all accounts, we haven't gone back in for and frankly isn't good enough. The increased bids for Baines on deadline day and the last minute scramble for Coentrao. Moyes has learned to not air out his dirty laundry in public. We were used by Fabregas and his agent to secure assurances about his position at Barcelona. This time I think he's learned a bit more. While we clearly need the players to come in there isn't the same air of desperation about our business.

Personally, I hope no business in this window. Why? Well I think any deal we're going to do this month is going to be a mistake. It's six months to the World Cup. What good midfielder is going to want to make such a big switch? None. Ideally, I'd love to see some talent brought in but it's not an ideal world and business in January is hard enough to do as it is, never mind with less six months to the start of the World Cup. Everybody in the last while points out that good January business has been done recently such as Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge. Sturridge was clearly and underachiever with Chelsea, a couple of weeks before his move he played against us in the League Cup and I don't think I've ever seen a more ineffective performance from a striker at Old Trafford. He paid off for Rodgers. He was certainly a huge risk and a player of that type is certainly not who I'd want David Moyes signing with the pressure that he's under.

Coutinho didn't play well for Inter and didn't play well for Espanyol. Again, another player Rodgers took a gamble on and he's looked okay up to now, not convinced by him at all as of yet. Another good player, but not top quality. Not somebody you should be polishing as a star of the Janaury transfer window and then there is Suarez who was itching for a move from Ajax form the previous Summer. No club was taking the gamble on him due to his poor record with clubs, trying to force a move to Ajax. You can see why clubs stayed away as he wasn't the talent he is now.

Everybody seems to forget about the bad signings: Andy Carroll, Ferdnando Torres, Fernando Morientes, Savio Nsereko (£10M!), Christopher Samba, Afonso Alves and you could go on and on. The fact is that the January window largely remains one with a deep correlation of poor signings and desperate clubs.

We aren't going to get a Vidal, Gundogan or Marchiso in this window so what's the point in signing a midfielder for the sake of it when we have Darren Fletcher back, Fellaini returning from injury, hopefully an injury-free second half of the season from Michael Carrick and then you have Jones who also contributed well in midfield this year, pre-injury. We need to start signing the right players and you have the feel that in the Summer there is going to be a good bit of spending done but you would think that if Moyes and Woodward really thought that they could sign a player then the deal would of been effectively done by now. It's obviously a hard window to do business in anyway and I don't think signing a Herrera or whoever is going to make a contribution to the team this year.

Thinking about it more I'd have much more faith in Moyes to make the right deal in June rather than a forced deal in January. The top guys aren't moving in this window so any player we're going to get in is going to be clearly a level below that. We need a top midfielder so I don't see the problem in waiting until the Summer. We all recognise that the Manager needs to have a bit of a clear out and be given a chance to make the team his own. I think signing someone at this stage will show that the pressure is getting to him.

Couldn't agree with you more, if...... we were in the hunt for the league title or even looked like making the champions league spots, the problem here is we don't on either front.

Do you risk the squad pushing on and missing out on champions league? since we're public it's not just the money we would be missing from TV rights and all that comes with the champions league its also the share price, do you risk losing what could be in the hundreds of millions or do you splash 50million now to bridge the gap, ensure you finish in the top4, then get rid of the deadwood in the summer.

It's a big decision, but that's what he gets paid for, either way I hope the one he chooses turns out to be correct.

UnitedIrishman

The problem is thus Red Cow - we are a nice bit off 4th spot presently with no sign of all the sides ahead capitulating or our performances picking. If we don't sign anyone (mainly a CM) this transfer window, I have little faith in us making up enough ground to get into 4th.

If we don't get 4th - Rooney will more than likely look to want away again, players outside of the league will more than likely turn us down in favour of Champions League football. Which means we're not going to get proven top class players so Moyes will be gambling on his ability to find top class players that aren't playing for the top sides across Europe. That's fair enough but given the spending power of some of the sides in this league right now, the next 3-4 years are pivotal in the direction of this football club.

For me, this transfer window is growing in importance with every game. A loss and another poor performance Sunday and serious questions have to be asked.

Schwiiing

Are there any CMs out there struggling to get a first team spot at their club and would take a move in January to boost their chances of a World Cup spot? There has to be a few.

keano2012

Schwiiing wrote: »

Are there any CMs out there struggling to get a first team spot at their club and would take a move in January to boost their chances of a World Cup spot? There has to be a few.

that's the last thing we need- if they are not starting for their own then why would they be good enough to play for united. only one i can think of i mata nad no way in hell are chelski gona sell to us.
im sick of buying 'potential'- we have the money why not use it and buy a reus or a vidal. if we dont sign someone with a bit of creativity no way will we qualify for the champions league.
i dont think it matters if they are cup tied- the league is what matter now- not good enough to win the champs league anyway.

bucketybuck

Red Crow wrote: »

Personally, I hope no business in this window.

Its a nice post and all, the problem is it was written about City, Chelsea, or some other club relatively comfortable in their top four position.

In a perfect world we would indeed take a more measured approach to transfers and wait until summer to make sure we get the right players, but your post ignores the very real consequences of our current poor performance. While you and Moyes are waiting patiently for the perfect player to come along, Tom Cleverley and his ilk has us missing out on the Champions league for the first time in gods knows how long.

Moyes cannot afford to dither any longer, to waste a second transfer window. Your post applies to a settled club secure in its position, Right now, thats not us.

bucketybuck

keano2012 wrote: »

that's the last thing we need- if they are not starting for their own then why would they be good enough to play for united.

Like Coentrao then?

Rayne Wooney

Keep forgetting that we won't be playing in CL next year if we miss out, we've had it for so long it seems like a given we'll be playing in it.

Still players will come if we throw enough money at them.

Is it really in our best interest getting a Europa place for next season if we definitely can't get top 4? I'm not sure if there's an actual correlation but it seems to me that teams in it don't necessarily do well in the league and missing out on top 4 again(if it does happen) next season would end us really. I'm probably wrong.

I'm just praying we get top 4 at this stage, there's just too much on the line.

scudzilla

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Keep forgetting that we won't be playing in CL next year if we miss out, we've had it for so long it seems like a given we'll be playing in it.

Still players will come if we throw enough money at them.

Is it really in our best interest getting a Europa place for next season if we definitely can't get top 4? I'm not sure if there's an actual correlation but it seems to me that teams in it don't necessarily do well in the league and missing out on top 4 again(if it does happen) next season would end us really. I'm probably wrong.

I'm just praying we get top 4 at this stage, there's just too much on the line.

If we don't get Top 4 i'd rather us skip a year in Europe, the Thursday nights can REALLY fcuk us up

yabadabado

scudzilla wrote: »

If we don't get Top 4 i'd rather us skip a year in Europe, the Thursday nights can REALLY fcuk us up

Europa league should only be used to blood youngsters and give minutes to lads coming back from injury .Hopefully it doesn't come to that and we get fourth but I would use it like a reserve league.