Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Cantona's Collars

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

But did Rafa say "he wouldn't be leaving and that's a fact"

His boss said otherwise.

Mitch Connor

ki wrote: »

Bye Bye Anderson, let the clear-out commence

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25719015

I'd prefer the clear out to happen at the same time, or after, players are brought in. Reducing squad options isn't a good idea in our current position, imo.

master-t

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Do you honestly reckon you'd be prepared to waltz into a title winning club and start making changes day one on the basis of scouting reports, before getting to know the squad yourself? I don't think I would.

I agree with you. I think for Moyes he wanted to make the changes as gradual as possible. He couldn't just come in all guns blazing and rock the boat completely. It is similar to Brendan Rogers at Liverpool in a way. He grdually got rid of the deadwood - Carroll, Downing, Adam etc. And brought in his own players - Sturridge, Coutinho etc.


I believe seeing the likes of Anderson and hopefully Nani move on, we are beginning to witness the deadwood being lifted. This will be followed by Evra, Rio, Giggs and fresh new talent being brought in.

master-t

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd prefer the clear out to happen at the same time, or after, players are brought in. Reducing squad options isn't a good idea in our current position, imo.

Well as you have stated many times, he doesn't play anyway, so it doesn't matter?


I believe seeing Anderson and hopefully Nani leave is a sign that players are coming in - possible this window.

tallaghtmick

RGDATA! wrote: »

I see Anderson has a tattoo of Ireland

Seriously

Cantona's Collars

Matic won't start Sunday,Lampard is in the squad but Ivanovich is out.Jose's been talking to journo's.

Mitch Connor

master-t wrote: »

Well as you have stated many times, he doesn't play anyway, so it doesn't matter?


I believe seeing Anderson and hopefully Nani leave is a sign that players are coming in - possible this window.

One player - a clear commencing now, as said in the post I replied to, would indicate more than one player, not just Anderson.

I think selling any other player, even ones I don't personally rate, would be stupid based on the fact we have limited options in a number of positions anyway.

If it was the summer, fire ahead, as there is time to get players in.

But it is January, and the club haven't completed a single incoming deal - nor do I trust them too. So, I would be very annoyed to see Nani, Buttner, Valencia or Fabio, for example, leave now as I fear we wouldn't get a replacement in before the window shuts - thus leaving our already stretched squad further weakened.

I have argued for a clearout for a long time, longer than most on here, but 14 days left in the window is not the time for it - especially give our position and performances this season.

Cantona's Collars

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Seriously

Most of Northern Europe is missing,he can hardly say there isn't enough room.:P

tallaghtmick

zerks wrote: »

Most of Northern Europe is missing,he can hardly say there isn't enough room.:P

Any pics?

Cypher_sounds

ki wrote: »

Bye Bye Anderson, let the clear-out commence

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25719015

Good lad Moyes nice to see progress, maybe gave him a chance for his first 6 months in charge but saw him for what he was and acted on it in the next transfer window.

Caught a view of this video today that was shot in October, doesn't look too fit. Bad form for a guy with his talent to just throw it all away and not care for the club.

Cantona's Collars

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Any pics?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88507858&postcount=2462

tallaghtmick

zerks wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88507858&postcount=2462

Damn no twitter in work

Edit:Mobile boards works

ki

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd prefer the clear out to happen at the same time, or after, players are brought in. Reducing squad options isn't a good idea in our current position, imo.

I'd agree with you in that but central Mid is currently over run with talented players not pulling there weight.

It might be a message to the rest.

bucketybuck

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Do you honestly reckon you'd be prepared to waltz into a title winning club and start making changes day one on the basis of scouting reports, before getting to know the squad yourself? I don't think I would.

But again, this applies to a settled club that doesn't have the clearly obvious issues that United had last summer. For example, I can easily see a new manager walking into Chelsea or City and taking time to evaluate the squad, because both those sides had reasonably settled sides with no major deficiencies, they just need an ongoing evolution of the playing staff.

United on the other hand had a massive, gaping, clearly obvious problem with their midfield. It wasn't a question of maybe they needed midfielders, it was a simple fact that every single person in the world of football knew about. It has been a discussion point regarding United for nearly five years for gods sake.

If a new manager walks into a Tesco then he shouldn't be making changes on day one. But if he walks in and there is a big hole in the floor, then he really should do something about it, day one or not.

Mitch Connor

ki wrote: »

I'd agree with you in that but central Mid is currently over run with talented players not pulling there weight.

It might be a message to the rest.

Really?

Cleverley, Carrick, Fletcher, Fellaini. They are the actual central midfielders at United now.

First is average enough, been over promoted and over played imo.
Second is a general slow starter and has been injured.
Third has had a debilitating illness and has done brilliant to return and brilliant on his return.
Fourth is new, has been injured - but poor enough I will grant.

Add to that group:

Kagawa - not a central midfielder.
Giggs - 40, of use sparingly.
Jones - not a central midfielder.

I would really not agree that "central Mid is currently over run with talented players not pulling there weight"

master-t

Mitch Connor wrote: »

One player - a clear commencing now, as said in the post I replied to, would indicate more than one player, not just Anderson.

I think selling any other player, even ones I don't personally rate, would be stupid based on the fact we have limited options in a number of positions anyway.

If it was the summer, fire ahead, as there is time to get players in.

But it is January, and the club haven't completed a single incoming deal - nor do I trust them too. So, I would be very annoyed to see Nani, Buttner, Valencia or Fabio, for example, leave now as I fear we wouldn't get a replacement in before the window shuts - thus leaving our already stretched squad further weakened.

I have argued for a clearout for a long time, longer than most on here, but 14 days left in the window is not the time for it - especially give our position and performances this season.

No I understand your point, and I was saying that if Nani was to follow suit, then it would be an indication that players might come in this window. As you have rightly said, why let players go and not replace them - especially when we need to add talent to our team already.


The pieces are being lined up in my opinion.

Maximus Alexander

bucketybuck wrote: »

United on the other hand had a massive, gaping, clearly obvious problem with their midfield. It wasn't a question of maybe they needed midfielders, it was a simple fact that every single person in the world of football knew about. It has been a discussion point regarding United for nearly five years for gods sake.

This is perhaps a bad example since, as you might recall, he did buy a midfielder in the summer. Granted, it hasn't worked out so far, but he attempted to do exactly as you're suggesting - address the gaping issue that we were all aware of.

Mitch suggested that it doesn't make sense to have skipped Ozil in the summer, but go for Mata now. That is what I was responding to, and I think that what I am saying makes sense in that context.

TheDoc

Hamsik? 25m ?

Correct me if I am wrong, I've caught Napoli a few times this season and last, but is he actually as phenomonal as the dozen or so times I saw him, looks a beautifuly gifted midfielder.

Also with Anderson gone, and Nani looking to follow suit, I can only imagine we have signings inbound. As Mitch said cutting our squad numbers down in our current prediciment is mental.

Interesting to see if the Ando deal is a loan or transfer, cant read much in the new office Im in

Lovely Bloke

Rafa won't sell to United imo

Mitch Connor

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

This is perhaps a bad example since, as you might recall, he did buy a midfielder in the summer. Granted, it hasn't worked out so far, but he attempted to do exactly as you're suggesting - address the gaping issue that we were all aware of.

Mitch suggested that it doesn't make sense to have skipped Ozil in the summer, but go for Mata now. That is what I was responding to, and I think that what I am saying makes sense in that context.

Then I would question his courage and managerial qualities if he either expected some massive improvement from Valencia and Young that would mean Ozil was not wanted, or was fearful of messing with the team too soon so didnt do it.

Personally I think Moyes would have been well served getting shot of a player or two in the summer - to stamp his authority on the squad, show them he is the manager and they have to perform for him, past glories under Fergie will not suffice.

Have said similar recently - with regards to Rio most specifically - make a big name casualty to instill some fear in the squad.

TheDoc

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Rafa won't sell to United imo

Not his decision from what I'm able to read on the limited websites available.

TheDoc

'Wilfred Zaha stormed out of a meeting with Manchester United officials on Thursday following a "furious shouting match" after being told the club had changed their minds about allowing him to leave on loan this month, Goal can reveal.

Indication is that while a number of clubs were in advanced stages to take Zaha, Moyes wants to keep him with the squad, and feels he will have more chances. Feeling is the Nani outbound stuff has some weight afterall.

Believe the original reference is from goal.com, not sure what they are like, but being thrown onto the transfer livefeed I follow.

master-t

TheDoc wrote: »

Hamsik? 25m ?

Correct me if I am wrong, I've caught Napoli a few times this season and last, but is he actually as phenomonal as the dozen or so times I saw him, looks a beautifuly gifted midfielder.

Also with Anderson gone, and Nani looking to follow suit, I can only imagine we have signings inbound. As Mitch said cutting our squad numbers down in our current prediciment is mental.

Interesting to see if the Ando deal is a loan or transfer, cant read much in the new office Im in

Yes, but Mitch has also said he doesn't trust MUFC to get anything done.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Indication is that while a number of clubs were in advanced stages to take Zaha, Moyes wants to keep him with the squad, and feels he will have more chances. Feeling is the Nani outbound stuff has some weight afterall.

Believe the original reference is from goal.com, not sure what they are like, but being thrown onto the transfer livefeed I follow.

Its goal.com so a truckload of salt - though they have taken steps to improve themselves recently.

On the assumption (for the sake of argument) it is true, I can understand his anger. Why should he believe Moyes will give him a chance of the second half of the season when perfect opportunities have been passed up time and again in the first half?

Mitch Connor

master-t wrote: »

Yes, but Mitch has also said he doesn't trust MUFC to get anything done.

I just feel if United were going to get something done in this window it would either be done already or at an advanced stage. As far as I can tell we have scouted A LOT of players, but not done anything about making actual moves for any.

master-t

Ideal situation Mitch? I'm curious to know. Sell who? Buy who? (This window)

master-t

TheDoc wrote: »

Indication is that while a number of clubs were in advanced stages to take Zaha, Moyes wants to keep him with the squad, and feels he will have more chances. Feeling is the Nani outbound stuff has some weight afterall.

Believe the original reference is from goal.com, not sure what they are like, but being thrown onto the transfer livefeed I follow.

I stopped reading once I read the source......Goal.com?? Awful.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Its goal.com so a truckload of salt - though they have taken steps to improve themselves recently.

On the assumption (for the sake of argument) it is true, I can understand his anger. Why should he believe Moyes will give him a chance of the second half of the season when perfect opportunities have been passed up time and again in the first half?

At the same time, he was a somewhat big fish in a small pond for Palace in regards to ability. But that doesn't equate into stepping into the first team for Manchester United. He's a kid, he needs to calm himself down or will end up being shown the door like many promising youngsters who just through they were too good for a bench.

Moyes has experience handling and gently bedding in youngsters, I've every faith he will handle the situation correctly. He has a really good track record with it, and at a club that has a good track record too.

I'll be the first to admit while I might have seen some options to play Zaha as a sub, and maybe gently introduce him,I do not see him as some form of saviour that should be starting games. It's not as easy as "Have one bad game, dropped" for wingers that have been at the club longer, i.e Young, Valencia and Nani. Unless you like Januzja and showing some outragous ability and making sure you keep your spot, I don't see anything other for Zaha this season then gentle introduction.

His first term at the club, if that is genuinelly his reaction, there is an attitude problem there, and he won't cut it

bucketybuck

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

This is perhaps a bad example since, as you might recall, he did buy a midfielder in the summer. Granted, it hasn't worked out so far, but he attempted to do exactly as you're suggesting - address the gaping issue that we were all aware of.

I don't want to regurgitate the details of the farce that was the Felliani transfer, but I think its fair to say that Moyes did not address the obvious problems with the squad in the 3 month transfer window that he had available. And so, we now sit in 7th place.

Pudsy33

Isn't Hamsik more of an number 10 then a classic midfielder? Hardly what we need.

Saucy McKetchup

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I just feel if United were going to get something done in this window it would either be done already or at an advanced stage. As far as I can tell we have scouted A LOT of players, but not done anything about making actual moves for any.

I think the original plan was to wait until the summer but those 3 defeats in a row changed things, I'd expect at least 1 player to come in this window with 2 or 3 signing pre contracts

master-t

Hamsik......Lucas Moura.....Coentrao......Garay......and that's just January

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

I do not see him as some form of saviour that should be starting games. It's not as easy as "Have one bad game, dropped" for wingers that have been at the club longer, i.e Young, Valencia and Nani. Unless you like Januzja and showing some outragous ability and making sure you keep your spot, I don't see anything other for Zaha this season then gentle introduction.

Firstly, I don't think anybody has said he would be some sort of saviour, or anything close to it.

Secondly, "one bad game and dropped"? Antonio Valencia has played in 18 of 21 league games so far and been rubbish in every one of them. We can only dream of "one bad game, dropped" at this club.

Mitch Connor

master-t wrote: »

Ideal situation Mitch? I'm curious to know. Sell who? Buy who? (This window)

Hmmmm, ideal or realistic?

Realistic:
But Shaw and Cabaye
Sell Buttner and Anderson (Done)
Wing would still be an issue but CM and left side has an upgrade and should provide a boost. Cabaye isn't THE answer, but would be a great "second" midfield signing (but done first). IE. in the summer we would add Gundogan (dream) and have Gundogan, Carrick, Cabaye, Fellaini, Fletcher and Cleverley as midfield options.

Other players like Fernando and Matudi would be very gettable.
Disappointed we didn't go for Matic, though he may have chosen Chelsea regardless.

Ideally we would push for Gundogan now and get him, and Vidal, and Draxler as I am convinced that Shalke need to sell for financial reasons. Don't think Reus is at all gettable. But I accept Gundogan and Vidal at least would be virtually impossible at this point.

master-t

bucketybuck wrote: »

Firstly, I don't think anybody has said he would be some sort of saviour, or anything close to it.

Secondly, "one bad game and dropped"? Antonio Valencia has played in 18 of 21 league games so far and been rubbish in every one of them. We can only dream of "one bad game, dropped" at this club.

I agree. But with Zaha, it is an attitude issue. Moyes is know for giving youngsters with the right attitude their chance - regardless of age.


Most reports are suggesting Moyes isn't convinced with Zaha's attitude - IN TRAINING. So there is no way he will trust him in a match. Even though we are crying out for Valencia to be given some bench time.


I still want to see Zaha play. I really want him to be given his chance. But Moyes obviously knows the situation a lot better and something isn't right with him.

Mitch Connor

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Isn't Hamsik more of an number 10 then a classic midfielder? Hardly what we need.

Yep - and unlike Mata or Kagawa, I don't think he'd be effective wide in a support 3 either. So unless we drop Rooney/RVP to accomodate him, I don't see where he would fit.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Firstly, I don't think anybody has said he would be some sort of saviour, or anything close to it.

Secondly, "one bad game and dropped"? Antonio Valencia has played in 18 of 21 league games so far and been rubbish in every one of them. We can only dream of "one bad game, dropped" at this club.

Point I'm making is that the solution to a bad performance isn't to be replaced. I totally get Valencia has been turgid in most displays, but has been good in some. And it wasn't so long ago he was breathtaking.

Players standards in training can really have an influence on selection which is an obvious point. Valencia has been doing extra workloads this seasons in relation to his game, probably impress'.

And in certain circumstances dropping a player can have a detrimental effect, so its not always the solution. The idea is probably to keep giving him chances until he gains his confidence back and starts firing on all cyclinders.

I get your points though, and it's hard to debate. I would feel that Zaha should have had introductions at various points in games, but it hasn't happened. Like I said I'm not going to try act like I know better then a manager who has nurtured alot of good talented youngsters.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yep - and unlike Mata or Kagawa, I don't think he'd be effective wide in a support 3 either. So unless we drop Rooney/RVP to accomodate him, I don't see where he would fit.

Thought I saw him a few times for Napoli and country playing in a midfield two, might be confusing with something else, but am pretty sure I've seen him part of a two and doing pretty well.

magnumbud

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yep - and unlike Mata or Kagawa, I don't think he'd be effective wide in a support 3 either. So unless we drop Rooney/RVP to accomodate him, I don't see where he would fit.

when has kagawa been effective wide :P

Pudsy33

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yep - and unlike Mata or Kagawa, I don't think he'd be effective wide in a support 3 either. So unless we drop Rooney/RVP to accomodate him, I don't see where he would fit.

That's exactly what I thought. He is a cracking player no doubt but not what we need.

RobertKK

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I don't get this. If Nani wanted to leave why did he even sign a new 5 year contract? It would have been lot easier to leave with only 6 months left on his contract.

Who knows, it might be to suit both parties - a higher sale value for United and for Nani it showed confidence by United in him.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Thought I saw him a few times for Napoli and country playing in a midfield two, might be confusing with something else, but am pretty sure I've seen him part of a two and doing pretty well.

Has only played as an AMC for Napoli on the few occassions I have watched them this season.

According to WhoScored he has only played there in the league anyway.

I think I have seen him play CM in the past though, especially at National level.

master-t

magnumbud wrote: »

when has kagawa been effective wide :P

Too many people seem to want to give Kagawa a free ticket. He has been, on a whole, awful. So have most of our midfield in fairness.


I hope he doesn't turn into another Veron issue. Who, for the record, was a poor player for us.

Mitch Connor

master-t wrote: »

Too many people seem to want to give Kagawa a free ticket. He has been, on a whole, awful. So have most of our midfield in fairness.


I hope he doesn't turn into another Veron issue. Who, for the record, was a poor player for us.

For United, yep. Same as Fellaini.

However, both players have shown me at their previous clubs and at national level that they are better than we have seen.

Partly i think they have played poorly, partly I think they have been used poorly. Regardless of formations and tactical requirements, both need to improve, I'll not dispute that.

master-t

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Has only played as an AMC for Napoli on the few occassions I have watched them this season.

According to WhoScored he has only played there in the league anyway.

I think I have seen him play CM in the past though, especially at National level.

He plays as CM for National team, plays as AMC or AMR for Napoli. Equally effective in any of the 3 positions.

Would be a class signing.

Kagawa wouldn't come into the equation as Hamsik would not be competing for his position.


Carrick / Fletch Hamsik


Rooney Kagawa Januzaj


RVP

master-t

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For United, yep. Same as Fellaini.

However, both players have shown me at their previous clubs and at national level that they are better than we have seen.

Partly i think they have played poorly, partly I think they have been used poorly. Regardless of formations and tactical requirements, both need to improve, I'll not dispute that.

The English game as a whole didn't suit Veron. He flopped at United and Chelsea lets not forget.


Yes, players need to adapt when they change leagues. This is common sense. Some players can do it. Others can't.


Kagawa is making the right sounds about wanting and recognizing that he needs to improve - and he seems eager to do so.

TheDoc

Ah no, not the "fit in rumoured signing into our starting lineup".

Makes me sad to see on paper how good the first team could be


*reflects to teams posted containing Reus and Gond

Saucy McKetchup

The manager if Fiorentina is reportedly already unhappy with Anderson, he was looking over a pie chart with Anderson's stats, he left the room for a minute and when he returned Anderson had eaten it!

master-t

TheDoc wrote: »

Ah no, not the "fit in rumoured signing into our starting lineup".

Makes me sad to see on paper how good the first team could be


*reflects to teams posted containing Reus and Gond

I am guilty of it myself, but it's so easy to get caught up in it. I guess it just stresses how 1 player can make a massive difference to the team! JUST 1!!!!

Mitch Connor

master-t wrote: »

The English game as a whole didn't suit Veron. He flopped at United and Chelsea lets not forget.


Yes, players need to adapt when they change leagues. This is common sense. Some players can do it. Others can't.


Kagawa is making the right sounds about wanting and recognizing that he needs to improve - and he seems eager to do so.

I think that should be less of an issue now.

I think Veron would be a freaking star in the PL now, the style of football would suit him a lot better.

English football, while still relatively physical, is a lot more like the stereotypical european football than it was even 10 years ago.

If slight players like Cazorla and Silva can thrive in the PL, no reason no other player can't.