Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

lordgoat

SlickRic wrote: »

Utd are as long as 40/1 for the title.

any of you going to have a flutter? :P

I can't see us pulling off the kind of run needed. Most of us in here are hoping for 4th!

Mikeyt086

MagicIRL wrote: »

Where's Mikey T and his Winnie the Pooh transfers? Complete slacker.

What would you like me to report on?

Headshot

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

What would you like me to report on?

The weather, its probably more interested than utd tbh

Maximus Alexander

SlickRic wrote: »

Utd are as long as 40/1 for the title.

any of you going to have a flutter? :P

Be stupid not to put a tenner on that.

Naturally I don't think United will win it, but I don't think it's that long either. If you played the season 40 times over from this point, I reckon they'd win it more than once.

Red Crow

TheDoc wrote: »

Raw deal? I keep saying, there is only one explanation for a player who constantly suffers from niggly injuries and cant get back fitness...and it's not being unlucky.

The only people that got a raw deal where the clubs payroll staff having to give him tens of thousands a week for nothing, and the fans for him giving us a little tease once a year

His fitness and weight issues were completely over blown. He should up one preseason overweight post surgery and the tag has stuck since. Never played one game for United as an attacking midfielder, his natural position and never got a consistent run of games and when he did he played well.

So yeah, he never got a propper chance to establish himself.

The middle part makes no sense either? How was he not unlucky?

Mikeyt086

Headshot wrote: »

The weather, its probably more interested than utd tbh

The transfer news lately has not been news at all. I won't even read places like Goal.com and F365, it's different when an actual publication like a newspaper print a story, than a website who need clicks (I'm aware newspapers have clickbait too, but I think it's far worse on those sites).

Hierro_4

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Be stupid not to put a tenner on that.

Naturally I don't think United will win it, but I don't think it's that long either. If you played the season 40 times over from this point, I reckon they'd win it more than once.

I think you're wrong.

Utd would need to improve dramatically and hope that 4 teams decline in the last few months. The odds on something like that happening are huge. 40/1 is probably too short if anything.

Will I Amnt

Hierro_4 wrote: »

I think you're wrong.

Utd would need to improve dramatically and hope that 4 teams decline in the last few months. The odds on something like that happening are huge. 40/1 is probably too short if anything.

You don't need 4 teams to decline. You need one team to go on an unstoppable run, if the rest continued to pick up their average points per game for the rest of the season they can still be overtaken.

bren2001

Hierro_4 wrote: »

I think you're wrong.

Utd would need to improve dramatically and hope that 4 teams decline in the last few months. The odds on something like that happening are huge. 40/1 is probably too short if anything.

If we win every game between now and the end of the season we will win the league. None of the other teams would have to decline. Even one loss would do it.

Never going to happen.

TheDoc

Red Crow wrote: »

His fitness and weight issues were completely over blown. He should up one preseason overweight post surgery and the tag has stuck since. Never played one game for United as an attacking midfielder, his natural position and never got a consistent run of games and when he did he played well.

So yeah, he never got a propper chance to establish himself.

The middle part makes no sense either? How was he not unlucky?

An important part of an athletes return form injury is recovery. With the advancement of sports science, we know now what ar the do's and don'ts for coming back from injuries, and to avoid them happening again.
The club can only do so much, they provide the science, the programmes, the schedules etc. But the player has to be strong enough to stick to and carry out a designed programme to bring them back to fitness. Alot of this work happens outside the training ground,with small excercises at home, and strict criteria on diet etc.

I've no shadow of a doubt,that Anderson simply doesn't have the mental strength, dedication, whatever you want to call it, to be discplined enough to keep up this sort of programme. Which leads me to believe it is why he has such frequent niggly injuries or reoccurances of old ones. When he plays, it doesn't seem to be long before he is absolutely panting and sweating bullets, and then strolling back into position. I genuinelly feel like he doesn't look after yourself. You don't have to be visibly fat, to be unfit. I know plenty of guys that looks lean and thin, but a few minutes running and they are red in the face sweating bullets.

I think this is the case because we didn't hear constant updates on his progress, we didn't hear the manager say how "unlucky" he was etc. I think they did alot ot NOT discuss Anderson and his injuries, in order to avoid questions about his discipline in dealing with injury.

Look its my opinion, from I guess just seeing first hand how some guys deal with footie injuries, those that do it in the good way and those in the bad way. And there is "probably" a tiny hint of stereotyping, in that it's not unusual for a Brazilian national to have a less then desired dedicated and self discpline when it comes to sticking to strict regimes. But it's not like there isnt alot of evidence out there of athletes and or footballers who constantly suffer injuries, and how they look after themselves.

I honestly don't feel he was unlucky or got a raw deal. If he was in top shape, he would have played most of our games, simple. His drive and gusto was something we have long being after and are still looking for.

bullvine

The last time Anderson played well for United when really needed was probably the defeat of Arsenal in December 2010 when Park got the winner, you would wanna be a little naive to think he didn't get a few chances since then. He did start the 2011 well but I'm not so sure it was not just down to the teams United were playing who were a mess at the time.

I am sad to see him go because what he could have been and some of the his games from 07/08 were tremendous. Its a shame.

Maximus Alexander

Hierro_4 wrote: »

I think you're wrong.

Utd would need to improve dramatically and hope that 4 teams decline in the last few months. The odds on something like that happening are huge. 40/1 is probably too short if anything.

Technically, nobody would need to decline, United would just need to improve dramatically. If all teams above United continued to accrue points at the same rate that they have so far this season and United won all remaining games this season, United would win the league.

Obviously not going to happen, but also not outside the realms of possibility. Then if you consider that Arsenal probably will decline a bit, it leaves scope for United to draw a game or two and still win the league, particularly if City picked up a couple of key injuries.

If you wound the season on 40 times over, I reckon things would align for United at least once. If so, it's a decent bet to take.

Please note: This is not me saying that I think United will still win the league! However, I do think 1 or 2 times out of 40 they would. I think United will finish 4th or 5th.

TheDoc

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

The transfer news lately has not been news at all. I won't even read places like Goal.com and F365, it's different when an actual publication like a newspaper print a story, than a website who need clicks (I'm aware newspapers have clickbait too, but I think it's far worse on those sites).

I was under the impression that all the sites content that is not a feature or thought piece, is from a newspaper or news source. F365 don't have "sources" or their own contacts, they are a hub for ALL the football stories coming from papers and other online sites. So I was led to believe anyway

Alot of their staff do some freelance work for other outlets, like BBCSport and SSN, one of which one of which is a frequent guest writer on SkySports.com.

It's the only place I actually go to read abut football, strictly because it's news is a collection from everywhere. Thought that was the point

Hierro_4

Will I Amnt wrote: »

You don't need 4 teams to decline. You need one team to go on an unstoppable run, if the rest continued to pick up their average points per game for the rest of the season they can still be overtaken.

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Technically, nobody would need to decline, United would just need to improve dramatically. If all teams above United continued to accrue points at the same rate that they have so far this season and United won all remaining games this season, United would win the league.

Obviously not going to happen, but also not outside the realms of possibility. Then if you consider that Arsenal probably will decline a bit, it leaves scope for United to draw a game or two and still win the league, particularly if City picked up a couple of key injuries.

If you wound the season on 40 times over, I reckon things would align for United at least once. If so, it's a decent bet to take.

Please note: This is not me saying that I think United will still win the league! However, I do think 1 or 2 times out of 40 they would. I think United will finish 4th or 5th.

If Utd win all their games between now and the end of the season they'd be on 88 points.

If Arsenal maintain their ppg average, they'll finish on 87 points.

If City continue on in the same vein , they get 85 points.

Chelsea, 83 points.


When I spoke of Utd improving dramatically, I did not mean them winning 17 games in a row. That really would be fantasy land stuff and it is pretty much outside the realms of possibility.
Utd finishing with 75-80 points this season would be a dramatic improvement.

It is so obvious that for Utd to win the title they'd need to improve immensely and the teams above them would need to falter. It is a massive long shot and that is reflected in their market price.

The_Kew_Tour

I would not back United at 400/1

DaveSuarez

Stolen from another forum.

The Cleverly effect

Warning: hard hitting statistical analysis is contained in this post.

I took the trouble to compare (edit: and contrast) utd's fortunes in 2013 with the number of Cleverly appearances on the pitch:





A direct comparison of the two sets of data:



Note the near perfect symmetry on display here - when the red line goes up, the blue line invariably goes down by roughly the same proportion (and vice versa).

A more rigorous treatment is in order. By using the Pearson Correlation Coefficient,





We obtain an R value of -0.933 and an R squared value of 0.87.

Per wiki:

R2 is often interpreted as the proportion of response variation "explained" by the regressors in the model. Thus, R2 = 1 indicates that the fitted model explains all variability in y, while R2 = 0 indicates no 'linear' relationship (for straight line regression, this means that the straight line model is a constant line (slope=0, intercept=\bar{y}) between the response variable and regressors). An interior value such as R2 = 0.7 may be interpreted as follows: "Seventy percent of the variation in the response variable can be explained by the explanatory variables. The remaining thirty percent can be attributed to unknown, lurking variables or inherent variability."

In short, we can confidently assume that 87% of utd's woes are due to Tom Cleverly, while the remaining 13% can be attributed to other factors.

Rayne Wooney

Math, bítch!

Maximus Alexander

Hierro_4 wrote: »

If Utd win all their games between now and the end of the season they'd be on 88 points.

If Arsenal maintain their ppg average, they'll finish on 87 points.

If City continue on in the same vein , they get 85 points.

Chelsea, 83 points.


When I spoke of Utd improving dramatically, I did not mean them winning 17 games in a row. That really would be fantasy land stuff and it is pretty much outside the realms of possibility.
Utd finishing with 75-80 points this season would be a dramatic improvement.

It is so obvious that for Utd to win the title they'd need to improve immensely and the teams above them would need to falter. It is a massive long shot and that is reflected in their market price.

United are 11 points behind the leaders.

City came back to win from 12 points behind with 10 games to go in 11-12.
United came back to win from 8 points behind in March in 02-03.
Arsenal came back to win from 13 points behind in December in 97-98.
United came back to win from 12 points behind in 95-96.

It happens. It's unlikely, but not 40/1 unlikely.

The_Kew_Tour

post 2617

Hierro_4

DaveSuarez wrote: »

Stolen from another forum.

The Cleverly effect

Warning: hard hitting statistical analysis is contained in this post.

I took the trouble to compare (edit: and contrast) utd's fortunes in 2013 with the number of Cleverly appearances on the pitch:





A direct comparison of the two sets of data:



Note the near perfect symmetry on display here - when the red line goes up, the blue line invariably goes down by roughly the same proportion (and vice versa).

A more rigorous treatment is in order. By using the Pearson Correlation Coefficient,





We obtain an R value of -0.933 and an R squared value of 0.87.

Per wiki:





In short, we can confidently assume that 87% of utd's woes are due to Tom Cleverly, while the remaining 13% can be attributed to other factors.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Maximus Alexander

DaveSuarez wrote: »

In short, we can confidently assume that 87% of utd's woes are due to Tom Cleverly, while the remaining 13% can be attributed to other factors.

While gas, and presumably just a bit of fun, this is what we call correlation. It does not indicate causation. :P

bullvine

I will take 78 points right now!

TheBunk1

DaveSuarez wrote: »

Stolen from another forum.

The Cleverly effect

Warning: hard hitting statistical analysis is contained in this post.

I took the trouble to compare (edit: and contrast) utd's fortunes in 2013 with the number of Cleverly appearances on the pitch:





A direct comparison of the two sets of data:



Note the near perfect symmetry on display here - when the red line goes up, the blue line invariably goes down by roughly the same proportion (and vice versa).

A more rigorous treatment is in order. By using the Pearson Correlation Coefficient,





We obtain an R value of -0.933 and an R squared value of 0.87.

Per wiki:





In short, we can confidently assume that 87% of utd's woes are due to Tom Cleverly, while the remaining 13% can be attributed to other factors.

You'd think after all the trouble you went to you'd have gone to the trouble of learning how to spell his name correctly.

Vic Vinegar

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Maths, bítch!

I fixed yo post.

The_Kew_Tour

The E in CleverlEy

Catches me out every time so it does.:pac:

2moreMinutes

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

United are 11 points behind the leaders.

City came back to win from 12 points behind with 10 games to go in 11-12.
United came back to win from 8 points behind in March in 02-03.
Arsenal came back to win from 13 points behind in December in 97-98.
United came back to win from 12 points behind in 95-96.

It happens. It's unlikely, but not 40/1 unlikely.

33/1 on Paddy Power. Where's the 40/1 on offer? At 1/3 odds to come in top 2, I'm gonna have a little flutter anyway no matter what the naysayers come out with.:D

2moreMinutes

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The E in CleverlEy

Catches me out every time so it does.:pac:

The CLEVER part seems to catch him out too....

Rayne Wooney

In fairness he's masquerading as an elite footballer at one of the biggest clubs in the world getting 80k a week.

I'd say he's pretty clever..

The_Kew_Tour

For the 4,538 time apparently Garay deal is all done and dusted

Hierro_4

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

United are 11 points behind the leaders.

City came back to win from 12 points behind with 10 games to go in 11-12.
United came back to win from 8 points behind in March in 02-03.
Arsenal came back to win from 13 points behind in December in 97-98.
United came back to win from 12 points behind in 95-96.

It happens. It's unlikely, but not 40/1 unlikely.

Those examples are flawed though.

This season is different because Utd are 11 points behind Arsenal, 10 points behind City and 9 points behind Chelsea.

They are way behind 3 teams at the top. Can you give an example of a team winning a league from a similar situation, in any league?

The_Kew_Tour

2moreMinutes wrote: »

33/1 on Paddy Power. Where's the 40/1 on offer? At 1/3 odds to come in top 2, I'm gonna have a little flutter anyway no matter what the naysayers come out with.:D

Skybet, BetVictor, Ladbrokes, Coral

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/winner

onemorechance

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

United are 11 points behind the leaders.

City came back to win from 12 points behind with 10 games to go in 11-12.
United came back to win from 8 points behind in March in 02-03.
Arsenal came back to win from 13 points behind in December in 97-98.
United came back to win from 12 points behind in 95-96.

It happens. It's unlikely, but not 40/1 unlikely.

The HUGE difference between those scenarios and the current scenario in which United are in is that United are 7th rather than 2nd.

It's should more than 40/1! :pac:

Hococop

My biggest concern is "if" we beat chelsea do you think moyes would halt on any signings and say "I think we will be fine for the rest of the season"

onemorechance

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Skybet, BetVictor, Ladbrokes, Coral

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/winner

It's interesting that Arsenal are behind Chelsea. Arsenal seem to be the value bet.

Hococop

Hococop wrote: »

My biggest concern is "if" we beat chelsea do you think moyes would halt on any signings and say "I think we will be fine for the rest of the season"

That's your biggest concern!?

Also, no!

Headshot

Hococop wrote: »

My biggest concern is "if" we beat chelsea do you think moyes would halt on any signings and say "I think we will be fine for the rest of the season"

Your biggest concern should be that we arent getting any players in

Nalz

Hococop wrote: »

My biggest concern is "if" we beat chelsea do you think moyes would halt on any signings and say "I think we will be fine for the rest of the season"

Whatever he has in his mind now for January is what the board, himself and he coaching staff will stick by.

Regardless is we win all our games or lose them all.

IMO

Your Airbag

DaveSuarez wrote: »

Stolen from another forum.

The Cleverly effect

Warning: hard hitting statistical analysis is contained in this post.

I took the trouble to compare (edit: and contrast) utd's fortunes in 2013 with the number of Cleverly appearances on the pitch:

Let me take a look



My conclusion is that your technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Hococop

Should have worded it better I know this isn't the biggest concern what I should have said was "I wonder"

IncognitoMan

It says on oddschecker that betdaq have us at 63/1

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/winner

Checking the website its actually 66/1

Your Airbag

MailOnline SportVerified account ‏@MailSport #MUFC growing increasingly confident they can persuade Ilkay Gundogan to join in the summer. More to come soon...

https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/424181095609815040

The mail are trolling us me thinks

The_Kew_Tour

Your Airbag wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/424181095609815040

The mail are trolling us me thinks

Dont do it lad

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

For the 4,538 time apparently Garay deal is all done and dusted

Yeah a number of outlets this morning indicating deal done in next 72 hours, and that United have been pursuing other interests of prioirty, so confident are they that it is done.

In regards to Gundogan , alot of quotes appearing for a player that is probably on the way out. But could just as easily be fishing a higher salary or deal. Madrid are supposidly going to be in the mix, so would be a tough one to land. Saying how he will make a decision on his future shortly and that he is unclear where his future lies.

Reus quoted again as saying how money does not drive him, and he does not see himself leaving Dortmund for a higher salary. Didn't explicity say he's not leaving Dortmund, some of those more ambigous quotes like "I'm only thinking of Dortmund in this moment" etc. etc .

Feel for Dortmund to be honest. Had a really good squad being picked apart, Kagawa, Gotze, Lewandowski, and I'd be suprised if they started next season with Reus, Gundogan and Hummels.

Also I didn't see posted here today, but the Juverntus chairman was doing a short interview today, where he was explicit in outlining no players would be exiting the club in January.

Nalz

TheDoc wrote: »

Yeah a number of outlets this morning indicating deal done in next 72 hours, and that United have been pursuing other interests of prioirty, so confident are they that it is done.

Wow. Any decent sources?

onemorechance

Moyes on Rooney: "He's back and he's looking good but he's not ready for this game"

He is 'hoping' that RvP will be training on the grass next week.

Both Phil Jones and Marouane Fellaini took part in full training and have every chance of making the squad for Stamford Bridge.

Moyes has been trawling Europe scouting potential January signings this week, but delivered a deadpan answer when asked about his travels: 'I just like watching football all over the world. That's my style. I'm not always looking for players some times it's just for knowledge.'

Daily Mail

The_Kew_Tour

i hope to **** he is trolling with last comment.

ya he is.

Nalz

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

For the 4,538 time apparently Garay deal is all done and dusted

Genuinely not trying to annoy you here but what source(s) or information has you so done and dustly confident?

onemorechance

I reckon that he is partially telling the truth, it is for knowledge, but also to scout, which he might keep quieter on in future.

The Fabregas thing had to be done; it's how barca and madrid get many of their big signings; it was worth attempting.

onemorechance

Trilla wrote: »

Genuinely not trying to annoy you here but what source(s) or information has you so done and dustly confident?

The_Kew_Tour

Trilla wrote: »

Genuinely not trying to annoy you here but what source(s) or information has you so done and dustly confident?

Where did I say I was confident?

Its running a lot over with good few United lads on twitter. Not sure if its true or not, but how manty times have we signed him at this stage? Answer is a lot.