Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

and that's sad.

Yes.

The_Kew_Tour

Why not give Zaha a chance? Drop Valencia. Give Kagawa a chance in his no1 position.

If I had seen those 2 changes today I would have been much happier.

jdooley28

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Why not give Zaha a chance? Drop Valencia. Give Kagawa a chance in his no1 position.

If I had seen those 2 changes today I would have been much happier.

I thought when evra went off he might have given zaha a run out, raf to lb and Valencia to RB like we sometimes do when chasing a goal. I had to go after around 80 mins so missed the Vidic and Raf dramas

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Rally as a club, focus on getting 4th spot and carling cup is possible. Move into next round of CL if we can. But 4th main focus

Stern kick up the arse to players who are slacking. Clearout of the mediocre now and in summer. Invest and recruit wisely. Get our business done early, the real test is next year.

I expect the club to be united, and solid. I could not for the life of me fathom the divisions among fans. This was going to be a tough year, and it's only being made tougher by poor performances and attitudes by the playing staff.

In, for atleast three seasons. Unless we find ourselves fighting relegation, this man should be given time, and I would highly disagree with anyone who thinks otherwise.


People should remember we have no god given right to win titles or be challenging for them. It requires work and effort, both of which I think the playing staff have failed misrebly at. Players get off too easy in the modern game. This was a monumental task replacing SAF, and when it was done, the squad should be busting a gut to ensure the manager is not being let down, and made an easy target.

I'm sure Moyes recognises the position he is in, and the flack he is getting, and I don't think it will be long before someone is out the door(of more significant brand then Anderson) and the group get a nice big shock.



Also I fear that the writing is on the wall for Kagawa. Not being played in the no.10 role today pretty much says it all to me that he is gone in the summer, in a makeshift deal potentially for Reus or Gundogan. If I'm honest as much as I like him as a player and think he is a neat and talented, he has not imposed himself into the squad, regardless of the ready made excuse that he is being used as a square peg in a round hole. He should be forcing his selection. He just hasn't been effective enough and I don't think I'll see him at the club next summer unfortunately.

So, you get a manager who has done a good, upper mid-table job on a limited budget, but never won anything. You bring him into a club who haven't finished outside the top 2 in 8 seasons; winning 5 leagues, 3 league cups and a Champions League in that period. And you let this manager rebuild this squad over the course of three seasons, letting him bring the team as low as lower mid-table in the process if necessary. You do all this because... replacing a great manager is a "monumental task"?

The idea that the task at United is so difficult that it's acceptable for a new manager to bring the club into the bottom half of the table for three successive seasons is absolutely mental. You are putting an insane amount of trust in Moyes.

wonderfullife

Pro. F wrote: »

Are you saying that Carrick didn't defend well?

I thought he was the best cog in an overall weak defensive unit.

If that makes sense.

Jones had a really poor game which didn't help matters. Carrick did pretty well in terms of his own performance defensively i'd agree with that.

It's a sad indictment of Moyes that the current video on BBC Sport is headlined "We need to improve".

I saw a very similar video on the same site back in October saying the same things.

In fact, Moyes has been saying the same things for nearly 4 months.

"We need to improve"

"We will get better"

Improved performances are only relevant if they achieve improved results.

He's like a broken record already. Bottom line he's well over half a season into this gig and things are not improving.

He can't keep hiding behind injuries either. It's hugely unfortunate that RVP and Wazza are currently out but rival teams have suffered from injuries too to key players. Arsenal had a few weeks without Ozil and months without Podolski and the Ox (and now Theo). City were missing Aguero, Chelsea will be without Torres, Liverpool had Suarez missing (suspension), Everton have had problems with Kone etc

He put himself in this quandary by a piss-poor summer transfer window and that window has been open for over a week now.......

I'm still struggling to see reasons why United fans want this man to be given a £100m war-chest in the summer. I really don't think he has a clue what he's doing out of his Everton comfort zone.

I called it at the start of the season and i'll say it again - David Moyes is Steve McClaren mark 2. Over-rated, over-hyped and ultimately will be found out.

In 5 years time Moyes will be like McClaren back managing a Wigan or a Fulham or Sheffield United and having relative success with sides who can implement his one-dimensional, negative tactics as they're not trying to win anything - only survive.

Thepoet85

Thepoet85 wrote: »

There was a point, when we were 3-1 down I believe, that we got the ball down to the right wing, inside the 18 yard box and whipped in a very dangerous ball across the 6 yard line. Instead of busting a gut to get into a scoring position, Welbeck and another attacker ( I can't remember who ) were doddling around the penalty spot. I couldn't believe they weren't giving it all to get into a great scoring position, it would have been a simple tap in. Summed up the lack of effort and will to win from the team over the season.

I was in a pub tonight and they were showing a load of Scholes' goal on SS1 or something. The amount of them that were him bursting into the box with a few others was unreal, there'd be 6 United players inside the box like, unreal. It feeds into something I realised today, I'm not a United fan, but I've always been in the "don't write them off" camp because it's caught me out too many times. Today though, at 1-0 I felt comfortable, at 2-0 I just giggled. I then realised it's been months since I saw United as a "threat". They're just like any other team now.

Your Airbag

Your Airbag wrote: »

Or maybe those people are looking at a bigger picture than the six and a bit months Moyes has been in charge of the team and its not seen as "a testament to their character" if they support him but taking in the whole picture.

Maybe people see that Moyes did a good job at Everton before joining UTD. Maybe they see a squad that needed reinforcement for years and didn't get it under the previous manager. Maybe they see a star striker who saved us on so many occasions last season not available as much to Moyes this season. Maybe they are patient and are willing to give Moyes a chance to build a squad of his own. Maybe a squad with aging and average players blighted by injuries is not helping.

It's easy to frame things to suit an argument. Maybe they see a squad that were 21 points clear of Arsenal at the same stage last year and are now 14 points behind. Maybe they see what he did at Everton and see how they're playing without him in charge.

KH25

KH25 wrote: »

How Hernandez wasn't brought on earlier is beyond me. He is a far superior goalscorer to Welbeck. On top of that we had absolutely zero backup from midfield on the attack. Far too many times we relied on the forward players to make something without any midfielders anticipating a second chance. This is something that has been common in most matches this season.

How Wellbeck can start ahead of Hernandez makes no sense to me. Wellbeck had a purple patch there (a short one) but when RVP isn't around it surely has to be Hernandez up top. Might not fit with the get-it-to-the-wing-and-cross-it-in tactic though.

Just gonna get my last few thoughts out while I'm thinking of them :P
- Complaining about injuries is ridiculous. As usual Arsenal are top of the injuries table, it was never an acceptable excuse for them.
- On Sky Souness (I know, massive bags of salt needed) was talking about senior players. What senior players do United have who would start in the best first XI? Of them, how many are generally available. Ferdinand and Vidic are in and out, Giggs is past it, who else is there? Carrick doesn't look capable of stepping up, which leads me to...
- Van Persie. He's 30 now. Last season he finally stayed fit for a year. How many years has he got left that he can be relied on? He almost fits into the above, he's as "senior" a player as United have right now, is he any use in that "role"?
- Money. Share price has dropped apparently. I said it a month or so ago, the owners haven't put anything into the club so far. If they were going to, why would it be next year? If yous miss out on 4th that's £30 million gone straightaway. Will they spend £50 million to get back to where yous were last summer? That's a sudden change of £80 million compared to before. Have they shown they'd be willing to do that?

I'll be honest, I'm an Arsenal fan. I'm loving what's happening with United right now. I hope Moyes stays a while longer, maybe til next Christmas so the next guy won't get much chance to fix things til the following summer. Maybe this post will come back to bite me in the arse but whatever, I was happy when Moyes was appointed and I'm still happy with the appointment. That so many United fans seem to be OK with how things are going is baffling to be honest.

Nalz

Would love to know Fergies thoughts right now!

justshane

Chelsea fan here not gloating just given my view on United's performance. I was not expecting so much pressure in the first 20, I think Jose might of even been happy if it was just a bit of keep ball by both teams but Moyes obviously felt an early goal was crucial to upset Chelsea. The thing that made me thing United wouldn't take advantage of this excellent pressure was the offside corner kick. This routine will result in an offside flag nearly every time, and even attempting that in training should never be allowed. I remember getting a lecture on it at about under 12's. I think Fergie would of prob ran on the pitch and assaulted someone if that was attempted during his era. A small incident but just showed to me a lack of guidance/organization on Uniteds/Moyes part. Also no Hernandez against Chelsea? He always scores against us and is Uniteds most natural fit striker at the moment.

Anyways unlucky and best of luck for the rest of season, I think without a left back and the obvious 2 midfielders been signed in the next week or so top 4 will be unachievable though, time will tell.

J. Marston

Trilla wrote: »

Would love to know Fergies thoughts right now!

Giggsy11

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Someone was saying earlier that there was no movement in the box from crosses but why would there be when the crosses are random, there's no method to the madness, 90% of the time it's just a hit and hope or a thunderblot blasted in from Valencia.

The day we stop crossing will be a good day.

Tbh that's also a part of the problem. When we had ball out wide, at max we had one or 2 players in the box and it's near impossible to find the target when you have Terry, Ivanovic, Luiz defending in the box and we have one or 2 players in the box with absolutely no movement at all. When Hernandez is playing at least it makes sense to cross to the near post as he is very good in making those runs.

So as you said, next question. Why the **** would any player just cross randomly when there is no one in the box?

On the left side it was lot better. At least Januzaj and Young along with Evra played some intelligent passes and looked like creating something.

Mitch Connor

Hope Woodward and Moyes pull their heads out of their asses and get something done in the next week. The club, the players and the fans need it.

To do nothing in this window after the shambles of the summer would be a damning indictment of their management of the club, and the suitability for their roles.

If they think Vidal, Gundogan or Pogba are going to want to play for a United side that finished 7th playing crap football, they are insane.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Hope Woodward and Moyes pull their heads out of their asses and get something done in the next week. The club, the players and the fans need it.

To do nothing in this window after the shambles of the summer would be a damning indictment of their management of the club, and the suitability for their roles.

If they think Vidal, Gundogan or Pogba are going to want to play for a United side that finished 7th playing crap football, they are insane.

Who do you think are realistic targets in Jan?

I think Cabaye won't be sold and we are again in the last week of the window and clubs will make sure we pay the premium prices for any player.

Again big mistake not to strengthen the team in Jan and I don't think we will now as it's too late.

Mitch Connor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Who do you think are realistic targets in Jan?

I think Cabaye won't be sold and we are again in the last week of the window and clubs will make sure we pay the premium prices for any player.

Again big mistake not to strengthen the team in Jan and I don't think we will now as it's too late.

Fernando, Matudi, Garay, Cabaye all available imo.
Matic would have been a fantastic signing.

Players are available - just because they may not be world class, doesn't mean they wouldn't improve us. And I am not saying we panic buy, I'm saying we need more than a couple of world class signings long term, we need to improve the squad quality as well, which is what I believe we could have done this month.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fernando, Matudi, Garay, Cabaye all available imo.
Matic would have been a fantastic signing.

Players are available - just because they may not be world class, doesn't mean they wouldn't improve us. And I am not saying we panic buy, I'm saying we need more than a couple of world class signings long term, we need to improve the squad quality as well, which is what I believe we could have done this month.

I agree. We have to strengthen the team where we have weakness just like Bayern did. They signed players who were not world class but they work as a unit.

I would love to see us signing some CMs but I believe it's too late and we won't be doing any business. Maybe in the summer there will be huge clearout and some big signings.

Leftist

The day moyes is sacked, or resigns, will be one of the most exciting non-match related days over the course of the 25 years I've supported this club.

Lord TSC

Pro. F wrote: »

Nothing has changed with today's game imo. Just like nothing had changed with the last game against Swansea. Lot's of United fans (I'm not saying necessarily you personally) looking for turning points or collapses this season, but the truth is that results and performances have been steady all season. Whatever your opinions on Moyes before today, I can't see anything new that happened in this game that would change anybody's opinion's on him as United manager.

I've been solidly in the #MoyesOut camp for a few weeks now, so you're right, it doesn't change my opinion.

But one thing that I did feel was kind of new, at least in terms of the level it was at yesterday, was the complete lack of belief the majority of people seemed to have in United. Fans and non-fans seemed to go in expecting to lose, and not in a "We'll put up a good fight" way, but in a "We're going to be killed" way.

Bar one or two people who "believed" based on nothing but hope and faith, I think no one was surprised when the first goal went in (even if it was "unlucky"). Was anyone all that shocked when we went three down? And while there might have been a fun few minutes when Hernandez scored that we thought a comeback was on, did anyone think we'd pop another three past them at that stage?

In his time at United, Moyes has overseen not just a decline in the team but a decline in the fear factor that use to come with playing United. I actually think that's part of the reason we've done well in Europe; teams come over and show us respect, and we take advantage. But in the league now, roles are reversed; even if we do well, teams think they can take something from us, even at Old Trafford. Teams aren't scared of us anymore, and the fans have lost faith that we're a team who can do some serious damage if given too much time and space.

Say what you want about booting him, but something has to be done on some level. Even if it's not replacing the manager who has managed to shrug off our "Top Club Aura" in a shocking time, bringing in new players, new coaches, a show of support from the Glaziers.....ANYTHING that isn't giving off the vibe that no one has a clue how to stop our slump down the table.

Cause right now, it feels as if the club is frozen in fear and doesn't have a clue what to do.

Headshot

3 next PL matches should be 9 points in the bag.

Lovely Bloke

Headshot wrote: »

3 next PL matches should be 9 points in the bag.

Good one.

Withiout Vidic, yes?

Maximus Alexander

I'm finding it difficult not to post something hyperbolic and reactionary after yesterday. I did not enjoy that - I had to turn it off after the third goal went in. I never do that.

v3ttel

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Where do we go from here?

Top 4 and League Cup. Hopefully.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What needs to be done?

Win games. Sign players (2 x CMs, 1 x Winger, 1x LB, 1x Back up RB). Clear out the dross (Evra, Rio, Giggs, Cleverley, Young, possibly Valencia, Anderson - permanently)

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What do expect as a fan?

Win games. Sign players. Clear out the dross.

Get an injection of new blood (at least one), this window. Get Rooney & RVP fit. Start Chicharito if Rooney & RVP aren't fit.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Moyes in?out? or wait till end of season?

Moyes in.

J. Marston

J. Marston wrote: »

"I should have chosen Jose"

keeponhurling

irishfeen wrote: »

Yeah looking at Scholes PL goals today it was a distinct difference - often the commentator would say after he scored that United had done nothing but somehow lead from a wonder strike from Scholes ... we're missing goals out of nothing massively - that bit of individual brilliance.

When the ball broke to a United player at the edge of the box I used to be thinking, "Have a go"

Now I know they just trap it and pass it to either Valencia out right, or else whoever is out the left

With the likes of Gerrard or Henderson at L'Pool, Cabaye at Newcastle, Lallana at Soton, Yaya at ManCity etc., you know that if they hyave sopace in front of them, they'll drive on or take a shot.

elchupanebrey

So this is what mid table mediocrity feels like. Not looking forward to season aftet season in the doldrums!!

kryogen

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Good one.

Withiout Vidic, yes?

Of course

He is a huge player for us, but we are hardly unbeatable with him

Look at the results this season, just in the league

With Vidic -

Played 15
Won 7
Drew 2
Lost 6

He has basically been an ever present in our losses! The team has conceded 19 goals in those 15 games

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Hope Woodward and Moyes pull their heads out of their asses and get something done in the next week. The club, the players and the fans need it.

To do nothing in this window after the shambles of the summer would be a damning indictment of their management of the club, and the suitability for their roles.

If they think Vidal, Gundogan or Pogba are going to want to play for a United side that finished 7th playing crap football, they are insane.

Maybe there is genuinely no money in the pot!

Leftist

Leftist wrote: »

The day moyes is sacked, or resigns, will be one of the most exciting non-match related days over the course of the 25 years I've supported this club.

If that happens,who would replace him,would Jose leave Chelsea for United?

kryogen

zorro2566 wrote: »

Maybe there is genuinely no money in the pot!

There is though, there is a **** load of money in the club.

Now you can debate whether it would be made available, but the money is certainly there.

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

There is though, there is a **** load of money in the club.

Now you can debate whether it would be made available, but the money is certainly there.

Americans dont like to part with it though and maybe they are trying to eradicate the debt before putting any funds into the club.

jamesbere

Can anyone honestly see any transfers in this window? Personally I don't see any, I just can't see who is going to move.

tallaghtmick

The tactics this season have been shocking, how can a club like Man Utd be reduced to cross after cross after cross, I never wanted Moyes and im struggling to stay behind him, he's still talking bollox about winning the league which annoys me more:mad: I really cant see the Glaziers keeping him on no matter what Fergie or Bobby say.

PhlegmyMoses

There's money there but I'm getting the feeling that we're skimping on players again. This talk of it being difficult to buy in this window seems weird. Sure it is, but if you have problem in this situation, throwing enough money at it works.

I have already stated that I do not want Moyes to sign stop gaps. That's a recipe for disaster on so many levels. But if they have identified players they want for the long term and they feel that they'll be too expensive in this window, then they're crazy and must have no inclination of caving to any fan pressure.

For those that want Moyes out, a lack of investment in this window suggests to me that you'll have to put up with him for at least a year.

kstand

Who in the right mind thought we were still in the title race before yesterday?
We were poor at the back yesterday but with an attacking threat of Young, Welbeck and Valencia we hadnt a hope - easily the most mediocre forward division in red shirts for many a long day. No idea why people rate Welbeck, does not have a strikers instinct at all and is lightweight. It was hopeless.
60 quid a ticket to go and watch that muck and lets face it, thats not a great Chelsea team either, Eden Hazard aside.
Moyes should shut his mouth now and spend the money he is supposed to have and try bring in a bit of quality in midfield and replace one or both of our curent wingers.

tallaghtmick

kstand wrote: »

Who in the right mind thought we were still in the title race before yesterday?
We were poor at the back yesterday but with an attacking threat of Young, Welbeck and Valencia we hadnt a hope - easily the most mediocre forward division in red shirts for many a long day. No idea why people rate Welbeck, does not have a strikers instinct at all and is lightweight. It was hopeless.
60 quid a ticket to go and watch that muck and lets face it, thats not a great Chelsea team either, Eden Hazard aside.
Moyes should shut his mouth now and spend the money he is supposed to have and try bring in a bit of quality in midfield and replace one or both of our curent wingers.

Moyes did....and still does.

wonderfullife

The question now is do the Glazers trust Moyes with £100m in the summer?

AVB showed it's very easy to spend £100m and end up with misfits (like Lamela) or generally top players who he can't get the best out of.

I've got a feeling that Moyes would bring in 4 or 5 players slightly below World Class and i genuinely don't see evidence that he could coach/manage those players to success.

My fear is that Moyes will paper over the cracks with a strong finish to the season. Very easy to see a fit Rooney and RVP tearing up tired teams in the April sunshine - which would end the season on a false positive.

Whatever about hauling back Liverpool/Spurs/Everton for 4th, i'd be equally looking at staying ahead of Newcastle, would not be surprised one iota looking at both sides run-ins if the Toon Army finished higher than United. They're playing far better football and in Cabaye and Remy have 2 things United don't have (fit) - genuine creativity and a predator.

kryogen

zorro2566 wrote: »

Americans dont like to part with it though and maybe they are trying to eradicate the debt before putting any funds into the club.

The debt will never be eradicated fully I dont think, its not an inconvenience at all anymore, thepayments are extremely low in terms of how much money the club generates.

They have spent money, a lot of money was spent on Young, Valencia, Fellaini, Jones, Smalling, De Gea, RVP, Buttner etc

They are not ideal owners, no owner who buys the club and pays for it using its own money is, but they have not really shown any interference in on the football side of things

Leftist

not sure if it's a repost but a good summary by john nicholson

http://www.football365.com/john-nicholson/9125156/John-Nicholson

Gru

Saw this over on Breaking news


Paddy power emergency Fergie

:pac:

bullvine

Leftist wrote: »

not sure if it's a repost but a good summary by john nicholson

http://www.football365.com/john-nicholson/9125156/John-Nicholson

Read this earlier, doesn't make good reading in fairness, I am firmly in the Moyes should never have been given the job camp but I really felt yesterday that they were unlucky to not get a result just shocking defending didn't help them.

TheDoc

No time for PP after they pulled a fast one over Xmas to save themselves from loosing a fortune during a trivial TV market bet.

Nothing but attention whores in my eyes and wouldn't give them the time of day

v3ttel

wonderfullife wrote: »

AVB showed it's very easy to spend £100m and end up with misfits (like Lamela)

21 years of age, moving to a new country, and after 6 months he is a "misfit"

wonderfullife wrote: »

Very easy to see a fit Rooney and RVP tearing up tired teams in the April sunshine - which would end the season on a false positive.

Getting back our two best players (which would most certainly) improve results, would be a false positive?

In April, we play Hull, Norwich, Everton, and Newcastle. How will those teams be tired?. From the 65+ games they'll have to play and all those high intensity two legged knock out games in the latter stages of European competitions? Oh wait.

wonderfullife wrote: »

i'd be equally looking at staying ahead of Newcastle, would not be surprised one iota looking at both sides run-ins if the Toon Army finished higher than United. They're playing far better football and in Cabaye and Remy have 2 things United don't have (fit) - genuine creativity and a predator.

What would you class Chicharito/RVP & Kagawa/Rooney as?

Cypher_sounds

That is what i look like when watching our league matches this season so far.

Rafael and Fabio are have a tendency to be quite dangerous at times which needs to be curbed.

bucketybuck

v3ttel wrote: »

What would you class Chicharito/RVP & Kagawa/Rooney as?

Well, David Moyes apparently classes them as bench fodder and backup for Danny Wellbeck.

PhlegmyMoses

Leftist wrote: »

not sure if it's a repost but a good summary by john nicholson

http://www.football365.com/john-nicholson/9125156/John-Nicholson

Lots of that I disagree with, particularly the part about recruiting players. In 2009, Real Madrid signed Kaka, Benzema, Ronaldo, Alonso and Di Maria. All under Pellegrini who had never won anything since moving to Europe. Money tells, the manager is a distant second.

Nicholson is quite out of touch with the realities of football and this has been apparent for years. I'd be surprised if he's watched more than 5 United matches this year. The fact that he thinks that our only addition in the summer was Zaha is testament to that fact.

shadowcomplex

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Hope Woodward and Moyes pull their heads out of their asses and get something done in the next week. The club, the players and the fans need it.

To do nothing in this window after the shambles of the summer would be a damning indictment of their management of the club, and the suitability for their roles.

If they think Vidal, Gundogan or Pogba are going to want to play for a United side that finished 7th playing crap football, they are insane.

As happy as I would be to see players signed in January, I'm worried we won't even get whats needed in the summer

Worst case scenario we need 4 world class players to go straight into the first team

We need a Centre half, a left back, a right winger and a centre midfielder

Now that's with leaving Carrick and Rafael in the team, to be honest with you I don't think either of them are good enough for United but our needs in other areas are greater, I don't get the Rafael love in here I really don't

Ideally we need 6 world class players and Rooney and RVP fit

Right back-Seamus Coleman Please

Left back-Luke Shaw or Alex Sandro (Baines would do but he's pushing on)

Centre Halfs( One from Garay, Hummels please)

Right Wing( Di Maria or Reus please)

Centre Midfield( 2 from Vidal, Fabregas, Gundogen,strootman, modric)

I know this is fantasy land stuff but this is what it has come down to, if the money is there to buy and pay these players I don't think there will be a problem in getting them even if we aren't in the champions league, if city can do it so can we

Al Capwned

TheDoc wrote: »

No time for PP after they pulled a fast one over Xmas to save themselves from loosing a fortune during a trivial TV market bet.

Nothing but attention whores in my eyes and wouldn't give them the time of day

What's this?

Leftist

bullvine wrote: »

Read this earlier, doesn't make good reading in fairness, I am firmly in the Moyes should never have been given the job camp but I really felt yesterday that they were unlucky to not get a result just shocking defending didn't help them.

we seem to be hearing that after almost every result that isn't a win. Luck.

We were unlucky with the ref's decisions

we were unlucky to concede when playing well

it's miles beyond the point of luck anymore. it's happening on a consistent basis. You can get a bad ref or a bad day here or there but it's almost every week now.

The point nicholson makes that I agree with especially, is that moyes brought everton to a certain level, one that never really did anything but plod into a europa cup position and then stagnated.

TheDoc

bullvine wrote: »

Read this earlier, doesn't make good reading in fairness, I am firmly in the Moyes should never have been given the job camp but I really felt yesterday that they were unlucky to not get a result just shocking defending didn't help them.

There needs to be stock taken at some point, and it will probably be end of season, as to what went so horrendously wrong. Unfortunately we will never see what goes on in that dressing room and training ground but something has definitly happened that is not right.

A change like this I feel should only have invigorated all the players. They are essentially on a trial to impress the new manager. It's a clean slate. New managers come with new ideas and their own thoughts of what the club needs. So you'd imagine the players would be really putting in effort to ensure they are kept at the club etc.

Feels like the exact opposite is happening. I won't and don't defend Moyes at every turn, but the drop in performance level is staggering, and I'm not sure its all down to the manager. Few players maybe took the foot of the pedal. It's not unusual, we clearly saw it with City last season in their title defence.

I'm confident that with this season past, Moyes will be more settled, will have shaken off the shadow looming and will start to make the big and tough decisions. And do some rebuilding, cause let's not kid ourselves, this is a team needing rebuilding.

Vidic and Ferdinand were a tremendous pairing for us, but unfortunately I feel both their time has come. On recent evidence Vidic has looked a shadow of his former self. If a good fee comes in for him I'd have no major reservations about selling if I'm honest. We have Smalling and Jones who have lost essentially two seasons of developement by being played in makeshift positions. Time to pair or the other with Evans for the next three games, and if things go well, persisting with it.

Our midfield is well documented, we won't go there. But I can see why we play so much down the wings, we've nothing creative through the middle of the park. Anderson outbound was a good move. If we can maybe makeway with Cleverly, and bring in two high class ballers, we would have good options in there, especially with Fletcher coming back ( had thoughts back to his dominating performances against Chelsea yesterday).

Our strikers are looking good now, but not for long. I've never been convinced by Wellbeck as a striker, and I'm not sure if that opinion has changed. Fluffed a good chance yesterday ( I felt was a peno btw ) His general play however I will admit can be impressive. But he has alot of work to do to become a leading striker for us.

RVP may or may not be reverting back into old injury habbits. Time will tell, but it's not on his side at 30. Hopefully get's his head right, get's a rub of the green and can have a strong finish to the season and be ready for next.

Rooney is a bit up in the air. Without a strong finish by the team obviously he will be tabloid target no.1 to leave. I'd like to keep him. His performances this season have shown how valuable he is to the squad. He is destined to become a United legend and smash records, and I'd hope he would rank that as something important and stay.

Chico I see going in the summer unfortunately. A great poacher as shown yesterday, but just as equally shown were some of his failings as a player outside the 18yrd box. I think he might be cut loose, but would command a decent figure.

I think there is room here for a big name striker, to work with/rotate with RVP and Rooney. The Cavani links sound a bit outlandish, but when you see the injuries landed so far to Rooney and RVP, both of whom have a history of niggly inuries, it makes sense to go buy another big hitter. Three top strikers can easily rotate with the amount of games we play.

Wings need work aswell. Ashely Young doesn't cut the grade, Valencia has fallen backward and doesnt look like he can scale the heights of two seasons ago. Nani is being heavily linked with moves away. Janners is the only one on form with potentially Zaha if he gets his head sorted.


So when you look at it and break it down ( and this might change come end of season) there is a fair amount of work to be done to the squad to get it challenging for titles, and ultimately European honors. This won't be acheived in a transfer window, hence why I've aired the three season mark. Granted if things go epicly tits up next season he will probably be gone, but there needs to be a bit of realisation and understanding that not only is this squad alot worse of then any of us could have seen, it's not a quick fix with 2 CM's. Last seasons complete failings by CIty, Arsenal and Chelsea REALLY covered up how deficent our squad was getting unfortunately.

Backstreet Moyes

Was happy enough with team selection yesterday. You could have made a case for Kagawa but that's about it. Fletcher probably can't play a few games in a row and Hernandez's first touch against Spurs was shocking.

Positives for me was we started well and attacked them early which was good to see. The problem was the lack of quality up front. In fairness lads Janjuaz put a few balls into the box yesterday and nobody was their. If Rooney or RVP was on the pitch i would have expected them to have be their to knock the ball into the net. If we played like we did yesterday and RVP and Rooney get back we will be in a much better position. I actually think yesterday was one of our better performances this season.

But question's need to be asked about our defending. How many goals have come from set pieces and individual errors this season.

Again i think we have been unlucky like a good few times this season with decisions from a referee. Wellbeck should have had a penalty and Vidic was never a sending off. Things are just not going our way with decisions. Liverpool two games in a row got penalties that should have never been while again we have been unlucky with decisions.