Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Hococop

onemorechance wrote: »

Do you think Mourinho feels Mata isn't actually such a great player, or is just not suited to what he wants from his team?

I think it started when mourinho was with real madrid I think he never rated him as a great player and mata took offence, but this what one of my friends told me cant say fir certain its true

RobertKK

GavRedKing wrote: »

You've also got this.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-deny-juan-mata-3042608#.Ut2tfRDFJD8

Honestly, after the WC I can see him sold but Id be highly doubtful if its in January.

United just said they haven't bid for him, which the Times also says. Just talk between intermediaries to see if possible.
The Times says a bid in the next few days if believed it is possible.

kryogen

Is there any chance now we have played Chelsea twice that Mourinho might, loan us Mata till the end of the season?

Oh yeah, thats how you clutch at straws!

GavRedKing

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

That must be incredibly frustrating for Chelsea fans. I get that Mourinho likes to play a certain way but to have your player of the year for two seasons in a row frozen out must be tough to take.

Surely he could find a way to accommodate such a talent?

It was but the way Willian made the step up its hard to question him, against Liverpool he was bullying players off the ball and able to stand up to the physical side of the defensive work, Mata couldnt do that.

Honestly though, no team wants to lose one of their best players, its only natural and I'd drop Oscar on recent performances where hes played ok but Mata would probably create more and contribute more in an attacking sense but we know Oscar will work his bo**ocks off if he plays.

Also, unless we drop Oscar or Willian we cant fit him in and it must be so frustrating for Mata more then the fans.

supersean1999

Mata would be a Lovely signing all we need then is a Lb ! Two cm and a top class cb, even if we just got the Lb sorted till the summer and Rooney and van Persie to play most games together it would be massive, at this stage the Vidal and the likes are fantasy stuff, I'd gladly settle for a v good lb and some luck with injuries,

Rayne Wooney

We won't catch Chelsea and Mata can only help us beat Chelsea's title rivals, along with the huge money which Chelsea won't get if they let him rot until the summer and Mata needing out for the sake of the World Cup it could be possible.

The sale of KDB probably makes it nearly impossible though, unless Chelsea have someone lined up.

supersean1999

RobertKK wrote: »

United just said they haven't bid for him, which the Times also says. Just talk between intermediaries to see if possible.
The Times says a bid in the next few days if believed it is possible.

Would you expect them to tell everything, how do we know 30m was not bid , or more likely 15m bid from that clown ED,

bucketybuck

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Play 3 across the front with RVP up top. I don't normally do this, but....

Januzaj Rooney Mata

RvP


That one's for you Shadowcomplex

Swap Mata for Kagawa and Moyes could have played this formation at any time this season, but didn't. How many times have you seen that formation listed, but with Nani as one of the three, or Kagawa as I said?

United fans have suggested that formation dozens of time but Moyes just doesn't use it, so why is he going to do any differently now?

GavRedKing

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We won't catch Chelsea and Mata can only help us beat Chelsea's title rivals, along with the huge money which Chelsea won't get if they let him rot until the summer and Mata needing out for the sake of the World Cup it could be possible.

The sale of KDB probably makes it nearly impossible though, unless Chelsea have someone lined up.

Theres nobody I know of being lined up anyway, although we must be due our annual linked with Hulk deal.

As I said, if we sell Mata we're down to 4 Senior players for 3 positions, 5 if ya count Ramires, but hes useless wide right.

If we sell now, we may get a premium, as you pointed out, in the summer we'll probably get maybe 25-30 million for him I'd guess, we paid 22.5 for him.

Pro. F

beno619 wrote: »

Nice speil but you continue to ignore the simple question of weather Fletcher has improved the midfield ? Bit sad really.

I've already clearly stated my opinion on that issue.

You want to play the last word game? I have infinite patience.

supersean1999

GavRedKing wrote: »

It was but the way Willian made the step up its hard to question him, against Liverpool he was bullying players off the ball and able to stand up to the physical side of the defensive work, Mata couldnt do that.

Honestly though, no team wants to lose one of their best players, its only natural and I'd drop Oscar on recent performances where hes played ok but Mata would probably create more and contribute more in an attacking sense but we know Oscar will work his bo**ocks off if he plays.

Also, unless we drop Oscar or Willian we cant fit him in and it must be so frustrating for Mata more then the fans.

Utd teams over the last 20 years normally have a player who does feck all work off the ball compared to others, cantona, ronaldo, berba, IMO there is room in every team for a gifted player you can do something a bit special, so we will fit mata in

MagicMarker

bucketybuck wrote: »

Swap Mata for Kagawa and Moyes could have played this formation at any time this season, but didn't. How many times have you seen that formation listed, but with Nani as one of the three, or Kagawa as I said?

United fans have suggested that formation dozens of time but Moyes just doesn't use it, so why is he going to do any differently now?

Because Kagawa has consistently under performed, where as Mata is premier league proven.

PhlegmyMoses

bucketybuck wrote: »

Swap Mata for Kagawa and Moyes could have played this formation at any time this season, but didn't. How many times have you seen that formation listed, but with Nani as one of the three, or Kagawa as I said?

United fans have suggested that formation dozens of time but Moyes just doesn't use it, so why is he going to do any differently now?

I don't think he trusts his fullbacks. He essentially played that formation with Everton with Pienaar and Osman as the "wide" players. I also don't think he rates Kagawa.

Kerrydude1981

Gary Neville is not convinced by Mata,

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9126174?

bucketybuck

MagicMarker wrote: »

Because Kagawa has consistently under performed, where as Mata is premier league proven.

Forget Kagawa then. Any three from Young, Nani, Januzaj, Rooney, Wellbeck or even Beige Cleverley himself could play as the three in that formation, but Moyes has never used it.

bucketybuck

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I don't think he trusts his fullbacks. He essentially played that formation with Everton with Pienaar and Osman as the "wide" players. I also don't think he rates Kagawa.

But if he doesn't trust the full backs, he's still not going to trust them just because Mata is there.

I wish he would use that formation, I just don't see that he will.

viper006

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-deny-juan-mata-3042608#.Ut2uqxDFKUk

ScummyMan

Could Mata play as a centre mid?

Carrick Mata
Adnan Rooney Kagawa
RVP

He has the passing ability for a deeper role, would possibly be too attacking against the big teams.

supersean1999

As a matter of interest , is there many English based players, with buyout clauses that ye know about, every joe soap that kicks a ball in Spain seems to have one,

supersean1999

Man.UnitedLad wrote: »

Could Mata play as a centre mid?

Carrick Mata
Adnan Rooney Kagawa
RVP

He has the passing ability for a deeper role, would possibly be too attacking against the big teams.

With our defence this year that's to attacking against Crewe,

Maximus Alexander

Ah lads I go away for a few hours and all hell breaks loose. It's as if the lot of you got into the catnip. For your own benefit you need to wind your necks in. Mata ain't gonna happen.

The_Kew_Tour

:pac:

Ed Woodward NOT ‏@woodward_ed 40s I'm trying to contact Mourinho in order to try to bring Mata to United but he's blocked our number since we made him cry #MUFC #CFC

green123

Man.UnitedLad wrote: »

Could Mata play as a centre mid?

Carrick Mata
Adnan Rooney Kagawa
RVP

He has the passing ability for a deeper role, would possibly be too attacking against the big teams.

why is there so much love for kagawa on boards ?
ferguson never played him because he was useless.
moyes never plays him because he is useless.
why do you people want him to play ?

Whatsisname

green123 wrote: »

why is there so much love for kagawa on boards ?
ferguson never played him because he was useless.
moyes never plays him because he is useless.
why do you people want him to play ?

Sure he bought him because he was useless aswell

irishfeen

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Ah lads I go away for a few hours and all hell breaks loose. It's as if the lot of you got into the catnip. For your own benefit you need to wind your necks in. Mata ain't gonna happen.

Of course it won't happen but it will take our mind off being 7th in the league for a bit

Maximus Alexander

I'm going to make a prediction: For the rest of the season, every time United fail to win, we will hear about how Mata was available but Moyes / Woodward fucked it up.

green123

Whatsisname wrote: »

Sure he bought him because he was useless aswell

ferguson signed lots of players who turned out to be mistakes.
kagawa is a flop.
ferguson realised his mistake and never played him.
moyes also thinks kagawa is not good enough and never plays him.
i dont understand why so many people want kagawa in the team.

lordgoat

green123 wrote: »

ferguson signed lots of players who turned out to be mistakes.
kagawa is a flop.
ferguson realised his mistake and never played him.
moyes also thinks kagawa is not good enough and never plays him.
i dont understand why so many people want kagawa in the team.

One of the worst things about this season is having to listen to the crap that gets spewed on here at times.

So Ferguson realised his mistake by playing him more as the season went on last year?

People want Kagawa in the team as he's one of the few players that has a good first touch, and can create chances especially when played in his preferred position.

Timmyctc

Have we signed anyone yet?

kryogen

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Ah lads I go away for a few hours and all hell breaks loose. It's as if the lot of you got into the catnip. For your own benefit you need to wind your necks in. Mata ain't gonna happen.

Im pretty sure if there is anyone who thinks Mata is going to join United in the next two weeks is going to happen they are in a very, very, very, very, very small minority.

Like one, there may be one person somewhere in here who thinks it, why one you ask?

As the saying goes, "Theres always one"

WallyGUFC

Mata to us, Hernandez the other way maybe?

Timmyctc

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Mata to us, Hernandez the other way maybe?

Hernandez would hoover up the goals with that Chelsea mid behind him.

kryogen

green123 wrote: »

why is there so much love for kagawa on boards ?
ferguson never played him because he was useless.
moyes never plays him because he is useless.
why do you people want him to play ?

What a stupid post

Ok, so going along with your "he is useless" horse ****

Why did Fergie buy him if he wasnt going to play him cause he was "useless" ****ing rubbish

Plenty of people want him to play because he is clearly a class player, plenty of people also think he needs to do more despite being used brutally for the most part.

Look what happened when he went central against Swansea for evidence he is not "useless" Look to any of his games at Dortmund, the match v Leverkuson, Norwich last year.

Jesus Christ some people drive me nuts, useless! Probably think Januzaj is the second coming of course. Drivel.

Well done, you got your reaction.

kryogen

green123 wrote: »

ferguson signed lots of players who turned out to be mistakes.
kagawa is a flop.
ferguson realised his mistake and never played him.
moyes also thinks kagawa is not good enough and never plays him.
i dont understand why so many people want kagawa in the team.

Never plays him? Never plays him?

I dont understand why I respond to this ****.

**** this, the mood Im in Ill say something stupid.

Your post is moronic, your view point is moronic.

kryogen

lordgoat wrote: »

One of the worst things about this season is having to listen to the crap that gets spewed on here at times.

So Ferguson realised his mistake by playing him more as the season went on last year?

People want Kagawa in the team as he's one of the few players that has a good first touch, and can create chances especially when played in his preferred position.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I wish I had this level of calm when faced with such horse ****

KombuchaMshroom

green123 wrote: »

ferguson signed lots of players who turned out to be mistakes.
kagawa is a flop.
ferguson realised his mistake and never played him.
moyes also thinks kagawa is not good enough and never plays him.
i dont understand why so many people want kagawa in the team.

It's pretty simple to understand to be honest. Valencia and Young both started against Chelsea, this is sadly the creative force in the team at the minute.

Kagawa is a player who has proven quality, has shown glimpses of it at United but never maintained it enough, partly due to not getting a run of games, i.e he is a quality player out of form.
Valencia and Young are playing to their form, sadly they are just naturally sh!te and incapable of contributing anything meaningful.

So if the option is between playing someone with obvious footballing talent in the hope that regular appearances will bring with him some good form, or playing two cowboys who have been given far too long spells in the team while continually showing no signs of improvement, then as I said at the start, its pretty easy to see what people want Kagawa playing.

nullzero

Timmyctc wrote: »

Have we signed anyone yet?

No, and we won't either. But newspapers will be sold on the speculation that we might.

lordgoat

kryogen wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I wish I had this level of calm when faced with such horse ****

This made me laugh.

green123

kryogen wrote: »

What a stupid post

Ok, so going along with your "he is useless" horse ****

Why did Fergie buy him if he wasnt going to play him cause he was "useless" ****ing rubbish

Plenty of people want him to play because he is clearly a class player, plenty of people also think he needs to do more despite being used brutally for the most part.

Look what happened when he went central against Swansea for evidence he is not "useless" Look to any of his games at Dortmund, the match v Leverkuson, Norwich last year.

Jesus Christ some people drive me nuts, useless! Probably think Januzaj is the second coming of course. Drivel.

Well done, you got your reaction.

"Why did Fergie buy him if he wasnt going to play him"

why did fergie buy bebe if he wasnt going to play him ?
why did fergie buy djemba djemba if he wasnt going to play him ?
and lots more i could list...
he made a mistake, ferguson made lots of transfer mistakes.

ferguson didnt think he was a class player.
moyes doesnt think he is a class player

it hasnt worked out for kagawa in the premier league.
you can argue that he hasnt been given a proper chance but 2 utd managers dont think he deserves a chance and i agree with them

lordgoat

Also out of sheer interest, what team would people have played against Chelsea in hindsight?

DDG
Raf Smalling Vida Evra
Carrick Jones
Valencia Kags Welbz
Hernandez


It's more 5 in the middles with Danny left than a 3 in behind at least when we don't have the ball.

I'm not gone on Evans and Vida as a pair - both left sided and I think Vida covers Evra better or is more aware of his liabilities.

This is the team I wanted before the game, possibly with Cleverley instead of Kagawa I think for the first 60mins this would have been more solid than the team we played, and if we were to get anything out of the game we needed to keep a clean sheet for as long as possible.

I thought we were too open from the start and our good start made us lax at the back. Chelseas took their chances while we played the better football initially.

lordgoat

lordgoat wrote: »

One of the worst things about this season is having to listen to the crap that gets spewed on here at times.

So Ferguson realised his mistake by playing him more as the season went on last year?

People want Kagawa in the team as he's one of the few players that has a good first touch, and can create chances especially when played in his preferred position.

In addition to that, even if he's not on the ball or not looking so sharp on the ball (who would have guessed this can happen without regular games eh??) the intelligent runs he makes to create space for others is invaluable. We play better when Kagawa plays in his preferred position, we look more dangerous in front of goal and perhaps most importantly, he can play the final killer ball, he has a great football brain.

lordgoat

green123 wrote: »

"Why did Fergie buy him if he wasnt going to play him"

why did fergie buy bebe if he wasnt going to play him ?
why did fergie buy djemba djemba if he wasnt going to play him ?
and lots more i could list...
he made a mistake, ferguson made lots of transfer mistakes.

ferguson didnt think he was a class player.
moyes doesnt think he is a class player

it hasnt worked out for kagawa in the premier league.
you can argue that he hasnt been given a proper chance but 2 utd managers dont think he deserves a chance and i agree with them

For a player in his first season under SAF I think he played quite alot. You also ignored my point about playing more as the season went on.

Also Moyes and SAF rate Valencia and Evra do you? You point is naive and not well argued.

lordgoat

Sacramento wrote: »

In addition to that, even if he's not on the ball or not looking so sharp on the ball (who would have guessed this can happen without regular games eh??) the intelligent runs he makes to create space for others is invaluable. We play better when Kagawa plays in his preferred position, we look more dangerous in front of goal and perhaps most importantly, he can play the final killer ball, he has a great football brain.

I agree. His movement is so sharp, at times you see the run and then you realise that the player on the ball is about 2 steps behind Kagawa and the chance is gone. I do think he's lacking confidence. I expect him to eave in the summer. I expect him to be a sensation for whatever team gets him.

lordgoat

lordgoat wrote: »

Also out of sheer interest, what team would people have played against Chelsea in hindsight?

DDG
Raf Smalling Vida Evra
Carrick Jones
Valencia Kags Welbz
Hernandez

I'd probably stick Januzaj or even Young in instead of Valencia, he just slows us down so much with the way he constantly plays it back. Also that would allow for the 3 behind Hernandez to be completely interchangeable.

lordgoat

Sacramento wrote: »

I'd probably stick Januzaj or even Young in instead of Valencia, he just slows us down so much with the way he constantly plays it back. Also that would allow for the 3 behind Hernandez to be completely interchangeable.

My reason for this team was I didn't know Young was fit! But I can see that argument. I might still have gone for Valencia as we are solid with him but Young does 'put in his shift' so...

Rayne Wooney

Ffs are people still using the Kagawa has done nothing to warrant being played argument

I give up if so

He's the most creative player we have when he is played in his best position

lordgoat

lordgoat wrote: »

I agree. His movement is so sharp, at times you see the run and then you realise that the player on the ball is about 2 steps behind Kagawa and the chance is gone. I do think he's lacking confidence. I expect him to eave in the summer. I expect him to be a sensation for whatever team gets him.

Well he could stay because our aim in the summer is to sign at least one of a type of player he has been missing that can spot the intelligent runs he makes; a quick footed advanced playmaker (similar to but not necessarily Fabregas). Though if he isn't getting decent game time in his preferred position and is in competition with Rooney and RVP up front then I do fear the best decision might be to leave. Kills me so it does..

J. Marston

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Mata to us, Hernandez the other way maybe?

Sure we've given him the squad number already...



:pac:

The_Kew_Tour

Yesterday as it is now was actually Matt Busby 20th Anniversary since his death.

The man who really made the club what it is

wonderfullife

green123 wrote: »

ferguson signed lots of players who turned out to be mistakes.
kagawa is a flop.
ferguson realised his mistake and never played him.
moyes also thinks kagawa is not good enough and never plays him.
i dont understand why so many people want kagawa in the team.

kryogen wrote: »

What a stupid post

Ok, so going along with your "he is useless" horse ****

Why did Fergie buy him if he wasnt going to play him cause he was "useless" ****ing rubbish

Plenty of people want him to play because he is clearly a class player, plenty of people also think he needs to do more despite being used brutally for the most part.

Look what happened when he went central against Swansea for evidence he is not "useless" Look to any of his games at Dortmund, the match v Leverkuson, Norwich last year.

Jesus Christ some people drive me nuts, useless! Probably think Januzaj is the second coming of course. Drivel.

Well done, you got your reaction.

There's definitely one stupid post above.....

What has Kagawa done at Manchester United to justify your assertion he is "clearly a class player"?

In his first season, he didn't exactly pull up too many trees.

20 appearances, 6 goals, 3 assists. Which, of course, included a hat-trick against Norwich (who are muck). The other 19 games he got 3 goals and 3 assists. That's pretty poor for a "creative attacking midfielder".

When you look deeper into it, there's more MEH on display.

His passing accuracy in 2012/2013 was excellent 89.7% completion. Then again this wasn't even the highest at the club and Tom Cleverley had a 90.2% completion rate..... enuf said on that....

His chance creation rate was 1 key pass per game (i.e. one pass which set up a goal attempt). That's not terrible but Ashley Young averaged almost double that with 1.8 key passes per game....so it's hardly earth shattering.

His delivery from wide positions wasn't great - even though he's admittedly not a winger. He attempted 22 crosses and only hit his man 5 times. Valencia had more or less the same average attempting 163 crosses and connecting with 39. However, clearly hitting your man 39 times is far better than 5 with the same average.

He dribbled successfully (i.e, beat the first man) 8 times in 20 games. That's fairly clear evidence of a lack of pace. Valencia for all the grief he gets successfully dribbled 42 times in 2012/2013.

Defensively he contributed almost zero making on average 0.9 tackles per game. Not even 1 tackle per game average is disgraceful for a professional footballer imo!

This season 9 appearances no goals no assists.

Furthermore, if he is "clearly a class player", a) why did Dortmund let him go so easily and cheaply (£17m) b) why has he not produced better performances?

Kagawa was clearly a very good player. In the German league!! And occasional flashes in Europe. But he's done nothing to indicate he has adapted to the Premier League. He's been really really poor for the money outlayed, for the reputation he had/has.

If you think it's "stupid" to criticise that then at least rebut it with better evidence than he played well against Swansea and Norwich, played well against a German team in Europe and generally was a good player in the Bundesliga ffs.

I've seen Gareth Barry look like Messi this year against Norwich, so the fact Kagawa had one of his very very few good games against them means nothing.

Kagawa has been very poor in his time at United. Absolutely he's young and has potential still but to say he's clearly a class act is the same worrying drivel as others saying Moyes is clearly the man for the job. It's all hope and optimism over the evidence in front of you.