Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

Soft Falling Rain

adox wrote: »

Sky reported that(or they may have been quoting a paper) the Utd physio thinks that RVP is fit but that the player himself doesnt and needs more time.

Robbie Savage with some scary words of wisdom:

Feigning injury is probably the most popular way of letting a club know you aren't happy. I've seen quite a few mystery injuries in my time. Some players could be sidelined with a twisted sock if they wanted to. It used to be so easy to fake an injury, but that has changed now.

If you get an injury, you are usually seen by a physiotherapist and have a scan within an hour. You can't kid people as easily, but you can still fake a niggle - and they can last for ages. When you feign an injury, there is no need to limp or play act. Just say you're not right.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/23703265

:pac:

bucketybuck

wonderfullife wrote: »

No rival club quakes in their boots when they see Nani on the team sheet. Ditto Kagawa.

Whereas when you see Yaya Toure, Hazard, Ozil on team sheets a lot of clubs **** themselves.

Oh yeah, I am sure they are shlting themselves at seeing Valencia and Young named alright. Talk about missing the point.

If we had Toure and Ozil on the bench, then your point might have relevance. If we were saying Kagawa should start ahead of Hazard then you could say he hasn't done enough. But he is not competing with Hazard, he is competing with Young and Valencia, two of the most useless players to ever pull on the shirt.

Its not the strangest thing to want a player like Kagawa in our team ahead of dross like Valencia, it really isn't.

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If we do win the next 3 I think we will get something at Arsenal.

First though 9 points from next 3.

I think this is probably even the line in the club, but I'd imagine it might just be " win next game".

The bonus of sorts of the situation we are in, is that we are focusing on 4th now, and Totenham and Liverpool are going to drop points, I'd imagine a few, before end of season. I've no doubt about that. We need to mount pressure with victories though, and capitalise on those dropped points.

ronjo

adox wrote: »

Sky reported that(or they may have been quoting a paper) the Utd physio thinks that RVP is fit but that the player himself doesnt and needs more time.

Starting to look like he has World Cup mainly on his mind.

TheDoc

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Robbie Savage with some scary words of wisdom:



http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/23703265

:pac:

Calling rubbish on that one, RVP had history at Arsenal of waiting an extra week or two to do some training to make sure he is 100% fit.

I'm not buying anything relating to him leaving, I think he is a really good proffesional, and for someone who has had such injury woes, I think trust should be put to the player. He knows his body better then anyone.

Was ****e this morning in some papers and media about crisis talks over him coming back, load of rubbish.

Soft Falling Rain

TheDoc wrote: »

Calling rubbish on that one, RVP had history at Arsenal of waiting an extra week or two to do some training to make sure he is 100% fit.

I'm not buying anything relating to him leaving, I think he is a really good proffesional, and for someone who has had such injury woes, I think trust should be put to the player. He knows his body better then anyone.

Was ****e this morning in some papers and media about crisis talks over him coming back, load of rubbish.

Aye, it was just a tongue in cheek post, more a dig at Savage and his "inside info" more than anything else.

Saucy McKetchup

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Robbie Savage with some scary words of wisdom:



http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/23703265

:pac:

Robbie savage and words of wisdom don't go in the same sentence

Lord TSC

For all people say "How does X fit into the team when Rooney and RVP are fit", that feels like a first world problem. It also begs the question of how many times has that actually occurred this season, and also should we be worried about the next 6 months with Rooney or possibly be preparing for the next six years without him.

DeanAustin

wonderfullife wrote: »

There's definitely one stupid post above.....

What has Kagawa done at Manchester United to justify your assertion he is "clearly a class player"?

In his first season, he didn't exactly pull up too many trees.

20 appearances, 6 goals, 3 assists. Which, of course, included a hat-trick against Norwich (who are muck). The other 19 games he got 3 goals and 3 assists. That's pretty poor for a "creative attacking midfielder".

When you look deeper into it, there's more MEH on display.

His passing accuracy in 2012/2013 was excellent 89.7% completion. Then again this wasn't even the highest at the club and Tom Cleverley had a 90.2% completion rate..... enuf said on that....

His chance creation rate was 1 key pass per game (i.e. one pass which set up a goal attempt). That's not terrible but Ashley Young averaged almost double that with 1.8 key passes per game....so it's hardly earth shattering.

His delivery from wide positions wasn't great - even though he's admittedly not a winger. He attempted 22 crosses and only hit his man 5 times. Valencia had more or less the same average attempting 163 crosses and connecting with 39. However, clearly hitting your man 39 times is far better than 5 with the same average.

He dribbled successfully (i.e, beat the first man) 8 times in 20 games. That's fairly clear evidence of a lack of pace. Valencia for all the grief he gets successfully dribbled 42 times in 2012/2013.

Defensively he contributed almost zero making on average 0.9 tackles per game. Not even 1 tackle per game average is disgraceful for a professional footballer imo!

This season 9 appearances no goals no assists.

Furthermore, if he is "clearly a class player", a) why did Dortmund let him go so easily and cheaply (£17m) b) why has he not produced better performances?

Kagawa was clearly a very good player. In the German league!! And occasional flashes in Europe. But he's done nothing to indicate he has adapted to the Premier League. He's been really really poor for the money outlayed, for the reputation he had/has.

If you think it's "stupid" to criticise that then at least rebut it with better evidence than he played well against Swansea and Norwich, played well against a German team in Europe and generally was a good player in the Bundesliga ffs.

I've seen Gareth Barry look like Messi this year against Norwich, so the fact Kagawa had one of his very very few good games against them means nothing.

Kagawa has been very poor in his time at United. Absolutely he's young and has potential still but to say he's clearly a class act is the same worrying drivel as others saying Moyes is clearly the man for the job. It's all hope and optimism over the evidence in front of you.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your post but is anyone else getting fed up of the game being analysed to within an inch of its life in terms of stats? It's gotten much worse over the last couple of seasons, it really has.

For example:
His passing accuracy in 2012/2013 was excellent 89.7% completion. Then again this wasn't even the highest at the club and Tom Cleverley had a 90.2% completion rate..... enuf said on that....

How is that enuf said? Does that mean Cleverley is a better passer? Lets say Cleverley drops deep and collects the ball and then lays simple passes off to his defenders rather than trying anything. Does that make him a better passer than Kagawa who could be trying more adventurous passes?

Football isn't simply a mathematical equation. There are too many moving parts and while stats like this can be valuable, they do not tell the full story and they rarely prove a point conclusively.

shadowcomplex

If we had better players to play the wingback role like Baines and Coleman, our first choice 11 with everyone fit wouldn't be that bad, I don't rate Rafael and Evra is gone past it, also couldnt Mata play centrally in a 3 man midfield

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Dea Gea

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Coleman

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Vidic

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Jones/evans

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Baines

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Carrick

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Mata

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Fellaini

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Kagawa

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Rooney

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Rvp

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Cypher_sounds

We should try sign Afellay if he is fit of course.

kstand

Going to throw something out there - Valencia is past it and hasnt really played well this season.
How about a bid for Adam Johnson? I always rated him and he has been excellent since he came back for Sunderland. Januzaj can play elft or right but Johnson could be a perfect replacement for Valencia. Plsu he wouldnt cost an arm and a leg.

bucketybuck

Why not a sneaky bid for Stewart Downing while we are at it?

intellectual dosser

Am I the only one who thinks we're more like to get Messi and Ronaldo than to get Baines?

Lord TSC

And Leon O....*Gets shot*

shadowcomplex

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks we're more like to get Messi and Ronaldo than to get Baines?

Yes

intellectual dosser

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Yes

Ignoring my exxagerated reference to Messi and Ronaldo, we've had two bids for Baines turned down, he appears to be about to sign a new contract and has voiced his happiness to stay at Everton in the midst of all the speculation. We need to move on before this window is just the summer window replayed.

kryogen

2moreMinutes wrote: »

Anyone who watches Kagawa play (the odd time he does) and genuinely don't see his class both confuse and annoy me. It's one thing getting into long winded debates to make yourself sound knowledgeable about Cleverley, Wellbeck or the likes of Nani but Kagawa is the real deal.

Whether he is actually suited to the hustle and bustle of English football is another completely separate point but his class, composure and general all round sexiness with a football at his feet shouldn't even be up for debate.

You are bang on and in the future I will not even get into debate about it, ludicrous to suggest he is not a quality player and if people cant see it with their own eyes nothing anyone else says is gonna help them anyway.

TheDoc

kstand wrote: »

Going to throw something out there - Valencia is past it and hasnt really played well this season.
How about a bid for Adam Johnson? I always rated him and he has been excellent since he came back for Sunderland. Januzaj can play elft or right but Johnson could be a perfect replacement for Valencia. Plsu he wouldnt cost an arm and a leg.

Would be an underwhelming signing in my book. Could potentially be another Ashely Young, moments of brilliance and worth, overwrited by large spells on inconcistency and frustration.

We bought Valencia because he was at the time the hottest winger in the league, and had alot of room to grow. That growth has something hit a brick wall. The question will be down to how much integration for developement we want, or finished product we want.

In theory the likes of Janners and Zaha are developement players, whilst you still need to had proven worth there on a wing, be it Nani, or potentially a signing like Reus.

bullvine

Where's Homer? He hasn't posted in days? Did I miss something?

Mitch Connor

bullvine wrote: »

Where's Homer? He hasn't posted in days? Did I miss something?

2 week ban a while back, not sure whats left.

Headshot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

2 week ban a while back, not sure whats left.

He can come back anytime but at the moment chooses not to.

Come back Homerjay

TheDoc

kryogen wrote: »

You are bang on and in the future I will not even get into debate about it, ludicrous to suggest he is not a quality player and if people cant see it with their own eyes nothing anyone else says is gonna help them anyway.

He is definitly a case where there is confusion over quality and effectivesness.

When you see his touch, his movement, the way he moves and is always looking up, he is an excellent player. But as we have well discussed it has been a struggle to implement him and utilise the best out of him. With Rooney and RVP out, this should have been his time to shine. however you kinda wonder if maybe its a bit much for him? I can't see the potential problem bar simply put the manager not feeling he provides enough, and on looking at his overall performances he shows flashes of brilliance but is failing with consistency.

Would HAPPILY provide him another season, but if it comes to maybe dealing with Dortmund, he might be key to a deal. Definitly the sort of player that needs some form of building or structure around him to flourish, rather then dropping him in hoping for wonders.

I would happily play him at no.10 in our next match with Wellbeck up top. He seems to do well when people around and ahead of him are willing to make runs to afford him some space, or just in general make runs. Rooney and RVP can be static at times, but having the likes of WEllbeck, Chico, Janners etc playing around him affords alot of moment that he can take advantage of with slick passing and movement of his own.

Would REALLY like to see him in behind Wellbeck/Chico against Sunderland. Have the likes of Carrick,Fletcher,Jones etc in behind him, so that he can simply focus on being a lynchpin in that forward position.

You can see when he picks up the ball through the middle, hes either turning, looking to turn, or play a 1-2 to go forward. A tiny bit of space hes moving into it, advancing. He hasn't got the engine or discpline to play CM, but as an AMC or no.10, he needs to start laying down the ****ing law and paying back some faith shown by his supporters. Cause at present he is making alot of us look like mugs, when its pretty easy for objectors to point out his failings thus far.

To me it feels like Berbatov all over again. Pure class, outragously intelligent gifted footballer, somewhat involved in a position/system that doesn't suit, and is an easy target as "underperforming"

GavRedKing

Mitch Connor wrote: »

2 week ban a while back, not sure whats left.

Ban is up since the 17th

bullvine

Come back HomerJay, Come back...

kstand

TheDoc wrote: »

Would be an underwhelming signing in my book. Could potentially be another Ashely Young, moments of brilliance and worth, overwrited by large spells on inconcistency and frustration.

We bought Valencia because he was at the time the hottest winger in the league, and had alot of room to grow. That growth has something hit a brick wall. The question will be down to how much integration for developement we want, or finished product we want.

In theory the likes of Janners and Zaha are developement players, whilst you still need to had proven worth there on a wing, be it Nani, or potentially a signing like Reus.

Zaha didnt even make the reserve team last night - cant see him being there long term.
If we dont make CL football then what wide players are we going to be able to go after in the summer? Johnson won the game for Sunderland against us 2 weeks ago and then went and got a hat-trick at Fulham the following Saturday. And then put in another MOTM performance against Southampton, setting up one and scoring the equaliser. He's playing well, he's experienced and he wouldnt cost an arm and a leg.

kryogen

Talk of Adam Johnson as a desired target makes me so very, very eeyore

tallaghtmick

Sevilla have reportedly rejected an offer of €12million (£9.9m) for left-back Alberto Moreno, according to Diario de Sevilla. Rumours have suggested Manchester United and Napoli are interested in Moreno, who has also been linked with Real Madrid and has a release clause in his contract of €30million (£24.7m).

Woodward special:D

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

But as we have well discussed it has been a struggle to implement him and utilise the best out of him. With Rooney and RVP out, this should have been his time to shine. however you kinda wonder if maybe its a bit much for him?

Its almost a cliche at this stage, but the usage of Kagawa has been almost criminal.

So Rooney and RVP are keeping him out of the team? Fair enough. But then both Rooney and RVP get injured and what happens next? Yep, Wellbeck plays up front with Hernanadez. Then next time? Januzaj is picked in the middle with Kagawa on the left. Unbelievable. That doesn't work, so 2nd half Kagawa goes into the middle and Januzaj out wide, suddenly we are actually playing well for the first time in months. So what happens next time out? Yep, Januzaj in the middle and Kagawa on the bench!

It would be hilarious if I wasn't a United fan.

JRant

I hope Mata has more sense then to come to us. We can't even use what we have at the moment nevermind bringing in more attacking players.

We have a manager who thinks its a good idea to play Jan up front with Welbeck in the hole and drop Kagawa for Young!!!

It seems that every time Moyes looks like he's getting somewhere he shoots himself in the foot.

Stops playing Giggs but puts in Cleverley for 7/8 games in 23 days over Christmas period.

Play our best football all season against Swansea in the second half so makes 3 unforced changes. Drops Kagawa for Young, Fletcher for an unfit Jones and plays Jan up front.

What is he at, because to me it looks like a clusterfück of the highest caliber.

I want to see him do well and I always thought it would take a season or two but I can't see how he's going to get his mojo back, he looks lost.

Backstreet Moyes

Im going to try a Shadowcomplex special if we get Mata Rooney will have to go the other way. That chap always put's me in the mood to start a new game of football manager.

DDG

Rafael Vidic Evans Contrao

Fellaini Vidal

Janjuaz Mata Draxler

RVP

kstand

JRant wrote: »

I hope Mata has more sense then to come to us. We can't even use what we have at the moment nevermind bringing in more attacking players.

We have a manager who thinks its a good idea to play Jan up front with Welbeck in the hole and drop Kagawa for Young!!!

It seems that every time Moyes looks like he's getting somewhere he shoots himself in the foot.

Stops playing Giggs but puts in Cleverley for 7/8 games in 23 days over Christmas period.

Play our best football all season against Swansea in the second half so makes 3 unforced changes. Drops Kagawa for Young, Fletcher for an unfit Jones and plays Jan up front.

What is he at, because to me it looks like a clusterfück of the highest caliber.

I want to see him do well and I always thought it would take a season or two but I can't see how he's going to get his mojo back, he looks lost.

Shook my head when I saw Young, Welbeck and Valencia leading the line on Sunday. Paragons of mediocrity, none of them fit to wear the jersey.

Backstreet Moyes

JRant wrote: »

I hope Mata has more sense then to come to us. We can't even use what we have at the moment nevermind bringing in more attacking players.

We have a manager who thinks its a good idea to play Jan up front with Welbeck in the hole and drop Kagawa for Young!!!

It seems that every time Moyes looks like he's getting somewhere he shoots himself in the foot.

Stops playing Giggs but puts in Cleverley for 7/8 games in 23 days over Christmas period.

Play our best football all season against Swansea in the second half so makes 3 unforced changes. Drops Kagawa for Young, Fletcher for an unfit Jones and plays Jan up front.

What is he at, because to me it looks like a clusterfück of the highest caliber.

I want to see him do well and I always thought it would take a season or two but I can't see how he's going to get his mojo back, he looks lost.

A United fan who doesn't want to see argubaly the best attacking midfielder in the league at United? I would question anybody who say's that if they are a United fan.

TheDoc

At the same time, a signing like Mata may signal serious rebuilding en route, and a focal point to build it from.

I dont think Kagawa has done enough to make the manager believe he is worth a rebuild around, yet Mata for two years was one of the best players in the league, and is someone worthy of getting in new accompanying midfielders and wingers to play around him.

It's a bit of an outlandish transfer rumour, but one if did go through would INSTANTLY give the club a lift, and as above perhaps might signal some good things to come. It's world cup year for Mata in fairness, he can't sit idle on a bench, and nothing helps a world cup year then playing for a top club (regardless of short term blips).

As someone said on a transfer blog this morning "If he signs I'll have sex with a cactus, "

NaiveMelodies

Unless Mourinho has designs on getting the United job if Moyes is let go WE AREN't SIGNING MATA!!!!!

KH25

Hopefully this Mata story is a sign of a massive rebuild over the summer. Its been needed for quite a while now.

JRant

kstand wrote: »

Shook my head when I saw Young, Welbeck and Valencia leading the line on Sunday. Paragons of mediocrity, none of them fit to wear the jersey.

I'd say Welbeck has earned his jersey at this stage but a No 10 he will never ever be. Was crazy to have him dropping deep with Jsn pushed up so high.

bullvine

So we turned down the chance to sign Ozil because hes not what United need but we try and sign Mata? Madness..

magnumbud

only1stevo wrote: »

Unless Mourinho has designs on getting the United job if Moyes is let go WE AREN't SIGNING MATA!!!!!

well he wouldnt sell mata to united if he wanted the united job because he doesnt like mata which is clear to see.

i would not expect them to sell to us but the only thing i would see is we offer big enough money as he is not played much anymore and they think selling us mata might make us more open to selling them rooney in the summer

Backstreet Moyes

I could see Mata coming if Rooney has made it clear he want's to leave in the summer. We get Mata now as we are no danger to Chelsea and they agree a deal to sign Rooney in the summer.

kryogen

kstand wrote: »

Shook my head when I saw Young, Welbeck and Valencia leading the line on Sunday. Paragons of mediocrity, none of them fit to wear the jersey.

Meanwhile, you think Adam Johnson is..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

intellectual dosser

Selling Rooney to anyone in the Premiership is absolute suicide. I've said before how he'll never go down as a United Legend given some of his antics, but he is an awesome player, we cannot let him go to Chelsea.

kstand

kryogen wrote: »

Meanwhile, you think Adam Johnson is..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

I'd have Adam Johnson before either Young or Valencia right now - no question. He has been top drawer for Sunderlland in recent weeks. Unlike the two wingers we had at Chelsea on Sunday.

Mitch Connor

only1stevo wrote: »

Unless Mourinho has designs on getting the United job if Moyes is let go WE AREN't SIGNING MATA!!!!!

Why not?

Chelsea likely still want Rooney. What better way to smooth transfer relations between the two clubs than to sell a player you don't want (but they do) to them?

Selling Mata to United could change our summer stance to 'No way in hell we sell to Chelsea', to 'We will sell to Chelsea but only for a nice big transfer fee'.

Also the fact that selling Mata to United could only help Chelsea this season. They get a nice fee to offset their FFP losses (as things stand Chelsea will have to breakeven for the next 2 years or they are in trouble). They improve United, a side that won't win the league from them, a side they don't have to play again, a side that DOES have to play City, Arsenal and Liverpool.

There are reasons why a sale to United could happen - i imagine it would be at a premium to what a foreign side would pay - but to say there is no chance of it at all, give the various circumstances, is wrong imo.

Maximus Alexander

bullvine wrote: »

So we turned down the chance to sign Ozil because hes not what United need but we try and sign Mata? Madness..

When did Moyes come out and say this?

supersean1999

11 days left . Start checking The supermarkets for cheap booze iv a feeling We will need a lot to sleep after listening to Jim white for a Few hours on deadline day. And prob end up With a lb at most .

JRant

Nuts102 wrote: »

A United fan who doesn't want to see argubaly the best attacking midfielder in the league at United? I would question anybody who say's that if they are a United fan.

Well we can't use what we already have. If i was Mata i'd steer well clear.

Can you not question an opinion without childish jibes like "I would question anybody who say's that if they are a United fan".

IamtheWalrus

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would question anybody who say's that if they are a United fan.

http://www.notafan.com/

bullvine

United be better to let Rooney go on a free, he'll be nearly 30 by the time his contract runs out.

jaykay74

supersean1999 wrote: »

And prob end up With a lb at most .

LB on loan. War chest intact :cool: