Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14

kippy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

According to Andersred - United should now be able to afford transfer spends of 60 - 100million per season. not the 14million net we have averaged in general.

While we can't go toe to toe for every player, we should be able to compete at a better level than we have been doing.

Personally I reckon well over 100million will be required in the next 12 months - more if Rooney and RVP leave.

I don't think it's the fee thats the issue - although the other clubs can outbid United on a whim, its the wages and everything else that goes with it.......

kippy

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Interesting...

Van Persie and Rooney have only started 8 games together this season, we won six and drew 2

Last season they started 24 games together, we won 19, drew 4 and lost 1.

Good to see that in black and white......... might work better than a heat map in explaining the main reason the club are not doing as well as last year......

Mitch Connor

kippy wrote: »

Good to see that in black and white......... might work better than a heat map in explaining the main reason the club are not doing as well as last year......

So because we don't have good forward to play the ball to, we only play the ball out wide to lump it in to them. This is despite Rooney's heat map showing him getting the ball out wide with more regularity than centraly, in comparison to last season.

Damn heat maps.

bucketybuck

kippy wrote: »

Good to see that in black and white......... might work better than a heat map in explaining the main reason the club are not doing as well as last year......

You can't possibly believe that can you, that if RVP and Rooney had played every game that we would be challenging for the title like last year? Because thats just crazy talk.

Will I Amnt

Why the f**k does anybody need heat maps to confirm how sh*te we're playing?

"I think we played crap, hold on until I just check this... yep, we played crap"

gosplan

bucketybuck wrote: »

You can't possibly believe that can you, that if RVP and Rooney had played every game that we would be challenging for the title like last year? Because thats just crazy talk.

I doubt there'd be a title challenge but people wouldn't be blaming Moyes for nearly as much.

As I said in an earlier post Man U have conceded less in the league this year than at the same point last year. Moyes is doing some things well. The only problem is goals scored.

If people say the problem is the way they're playing then I'd remind them of some of the frankly shocking performances put in last season. Fergie had the ability and the strikers he needed to turn it around at the death and score the two goals that would see them take an unlikely win but that's not normal or sustainable.

I'd say if you took out RVP's key goals in the first half of last season it would be an interesting comparison.

aidan24326

bucketybuck wrote: »

You can't possibly believe that can you, that if RVP and Rooney had played every game that we would be challenging for the title like last year? Because thats just crazy talk.

He never said that, but the stats are interesting all the same.

keith_d99

Hi all,

Looking at heading over - for Villa or Fulham home game (more likely Villa), and looking to get 5/6 tickets.
Had a look at the official site - and they are available (members only). Does each person need to be a member? (extra £32) or will 1 membership do? I think I can guess the answer but just want to check.

Any other alternatives - my local source has given up his season ticket.

Thanks!
Keith.

Mitch Connor

gosplan wrote: »

I doubt there'd be a title challenge but people wouldn't be blaming Moyes for nearly as much.

As I said in an earlier post Man U have conceded less in the league this year than at the same point last year. Moyes is doing some things well. The only problem is goals scored.

If people say the problem is the way they're playing then I'd remind them of some of the frankly shocking performances put in last season. Fergie had the ability and the strikers he needed to turn it around at the death and score the two goals that would see them take an unlikely win but that's not normal or sustainable.

I'd say if you took out RVP's key goals in the first half of last season it would be an interesting comparison.

Excusing our crap play this season, by saying we played crap last season, is not a valid justification imo.

I complained about the dross we put on last season too - so I'll complain about it this season as well. Moyes is the manager now, our style of play is his responsibility now.

magnumbud

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

The final straw was when Park and Rafael started in midfield ahead of him in a game.

i dont know if i agree with him there like i know it seemed like fergie was just not a fan of his and i can understand that but still a bit of patience (he was only 18) would have gone a long way. like fergie was starting to get him involved until it became clear that he was gone and dropped him again. both sides really could have dealt with it better.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

RVP will be off, or looking to leave, as well imo.

Personally, I think a massive reason we need to make signings in January is that we need to show a better, more attractive style of play and a real push for top 4 - not just to attract potential signings, but to show our key players that we are still a club worth playing for.

RVP has 3 and a half years of a contract left so really if the club doesnt want to sell hes here if he wants to be or not.

also on saying if we would be challenging for the title if we had RVP and Rooney playing every game its very likely we would be i mean how many games has RVP started? has to be 8 or less with one of them being newcastle when it was clear he was not fit. having him on fire would be what? anywhere up to 10 goals more. that could have changed a number of results in our favour games like newcastle and everton where i am convinced if we had taken our chances pre going behind we would likely have won would put us 4th just those 2 games any more and we are closer and closer. im not saying we would win it the team is not good enough to do that but i was saying the same about the team 12 months ago

v3ttel

keith_d99 wrote: »

Hi all,

Looking at heading over - for Villa or Fulham home game (more likely Villa), and looking to get 5/6 tickets.
Had a look at the official site - and they are available (members only). Does each person need to be a member? (extra £32) or will 1 membership do? I think I can guess the answer but just want to check.

Any other alternatives - my local source has given up his season ticket.

Thanks!
Keith.

Each person does need to be a member to buy through the ticket section of the clubs website. You can create a network, etc. If you've got a mate or whoever that is a member, you can add them to your network, they click a confirmation link in the email that they wish to be added to your network. You can then purchase tickets for them. So you could use your mates number to buy tickets for your other half, etc.

The membership card is the ticket, so your mate would have to physically hand over his card for the weekend or whatever.

There are a lot of sources on Twitter that provide ways for fans looking to buy/sell tickets are reasonable prices. @MUFCSparesHOME and the likes.

bullvine

I am not so sure RVP will leave, his wages are huge, who would pay him that?

Mitch Connor

magnumbud wrote: »

i dont know if i agree with him there like i know it seemed like fergie was just not a fan of his and i can understand that but still a bit of patience (he was only 18) would have gone a long way. like fergie was starting to get him involved until it became clear that he was gone and dropped him again. both sides really could have dealt with it better.




RVP has 3 and a half years of a contract left so really if the club doesnt want to sell hes here if he wants to be or not.

If he starts saying publicly that he wants out, and his relationship with Moyes is non-existent, I can see him being sold

Blatter

I think people forget that Rooney missed a fair few games for us last season and when he did play, he wasn't as sharp as he was this season.

Moyes having Rooney in the form he's in this season isn't too much different to Fergie having RvP last season, imo. I do think it's overly simplistic to imply most of our problems this season have come from RvP's absence.

magnumbud

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If he starts saying publicly that he wants out, and his relationship with Moyes is non-existent, I can see him being sold

suarez asked to leave publicly and is still there, tevez clearly wanted out of city for 2 years before he got his move. people say his relationship with moyes is not existent but where is the actual proof to this as far as i have seen its all been twitter rumours and nothing factual.

Blatter wrote: »

I think people forget that Rooney missed a fair few games for us last season and when he did play, he wasn't as sharp as he was this season.

Moyes having Rooney in the form he's in this season isn't too much different to Fergie having RvP last season, imo. I do think it's overly simplistic to imply most of our problems this season have come from RvP's absence.

its not the sole problem for sure any fool could see our midfield is not good enough but it sure would help the situation. and its not really the same as rvp was on 20(if not more) goals this point last season and rooney while on fire has 10 goals. lack of goals is our main problem right now

2moreMinutes

Has Cattermole signed yet?

v3ttel

Mitch Connor wrote: »

RVP will be off, or looking to leave, as well imo.

Personally, I think a massive reason we need to make signings in January is that we need to show a better, more attractive style of play and a real push for top 4 - not just to attract potential signings, but to show our key players that we are still a club worth playing for.

RVP will be off?

He will be 31 in the Summer and is on huge wages. As shown with Rooney this Summer, United will not sell domestically.

The likes of Barcelona, Bayern, Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG all have pretty close to, if not, world class strikers. All other clubs would be a step down from United imho.

How many clubs does that leave, that would:
A. Be interested in him.
B. Want to pay his huge wages at that stage of his career.

And, why would United want to sell one of our genuinely world class players who has 3 years left on his current contract?

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If he starts saying publicly that he wants out, and his relationship with Moyes is non-existent, I can see him being sold

Tevez, Ronaldo, Suarez, etc left the second they wanted to leave?

City got another 2 seasons after Tevez wanted out. Ronaldo wanted to leave for Real Madrid well before he got his move. Suarez is still at Liverpool.

bucketybuck

magnumbud wrote: »

also on saying if we would be challenging for the title if we had RVP and Rooney playing every game its very likely we would be i mean how many games has RVP started?

He started 11 league games by my count.

You also simply cannot forget one fact. Rooney, Robin Van Persie and Micheal Carrick were all there for the first ten games of the season, and we were ****ing rubbish in those ten games.

We certainly would be a few points better off had they not been out for periods, but you just cannot say we would be much better off or challenging for a title, because we were just as bad with them in the first ten games as we have been in the ten games since.

JRant

Blatter wrote: »

I think people forget that Rooney missed a fair few games for us last season and when he did play, he wasn't as sharp as he was this season.

Moyes having Rooney in the form he's in this season isn't too much different to Fergie having RvP last season, imo. I do think it's overly simplistic to imply most of our problems this season have come from RvP's absence.

It's not just about those 2 though.
Raf had his longest uninjuried spell.
Carrick was fit and playing well.
Vida and Rio were playing well.

No team, including Citeah, could deal with the sheer volume of injuries to the1st team players that we've had. I mean Citeah were rubbish with Kompany out and he's only one player. At times this season we've been without 5/6 first team players.

We've had RVP, Vida, Carrick, Raf missing for long spells plus Rooney picking up knocks along the way.

Take Aguero, Nagredo, Yaya, Kompany out of Citeah and see how well they'd perform.

Injuries are part and parcel of the game but the fixture list and injury list have conspired to make an already mammoth task for Moyes that much harder.

Not making excuses for him but it all needs to be considered when passing judgement on him.

NoviGlitzko

JRant wrote: »

Not making excuses for him but it all needs to be considered when passing judgement on him.

I completely take your point but you can't deny apart from our best players, and City's, Arsenals, & Chelsea's best players, our squad compared is poor in comparison.

Your Airbag

Moyes: "Fortunes will improve ... I can sense in the dressing room that there's an urge to fight our current position. "

magnumbud

bucketybuck wrote: »

He started 11 league games by my count.

You also simply cannot forget one fact. Rooney, Robin Van Persie and Micheal Carrick were all there for the first ten games of the season, and we were ****ing rubbish in those ten games.

We certainly would be a few points better off had they not been out for periods, but you just cannot say we would be much better off or challenging for a title, because we were just as bad with them in the first ten games as we have been in the ten games since.

he has played 11 pl games but he certainly didnt start(i know cause of my FF) he came on as a sub a few of those games.

JRant

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

I completely take your point but you can't deny apart from our best players, and City's, Arsenals, & Chelsea's best players, our squad compared is poor in comparison.

Agree that our squad isn't as strong as it once was and does need improving. However the loss of so many front line players just can't be over emphasised.

While all those teams were filling their boots with top class midfielders Fergie kept buying strikers and CB's that quite frankly we didn't need considering our panel of players.

kippy

bucketybuck wrote: »

You can't possibly believe that can you, that if RVP and Rooney had played every game that we would be challenging for the title like last year? Because thats just crazy talk.

Not necessarily challanging for the title, but defo doing better than they are right now.
Are you disputing that?

Mitch Connor

kippy wrote: »

Not necessarily challanging for the title, but defo doing better than they are right now.
Are you disputing that?

I do think we'd have a few more points.

Our general play would still be painfully crap and horrible to watch, as it was when RVP was in the team.

kippy

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Why the f**k does anybody need heat maps to confirm how sh*te we're playing?

"I think we played crap, hold on until I just check this... yep, we played crap"

Some people are using anything and everything to knock Moyes with, thats just one weapon, which wasn't particularily good.

JRant

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I do think we'd have a few more points.

Our general play would still be painfully crap and horrible to watch, as it was when RVP was in the team.

As it was under Fergie for the past 2/3 aswell though.

kstand

Mitch Connor wrote: »

RVP will be off, or looking to leave, as well imo.

Personally, I think a massive reason we need to make signings in January is that we need to show a better, more attractive style of play and a real push for top 4 - not just to attract potential signings, but to show our key players that we are still a club worth playing for.

This is essentially the crux of the issue right now. Failure to bring in a top quality midfield player could well result in the club ending up 5th or 6th or below that. And thats not to talk of the negative vibes that will be felt if such a player is not signed.
So the board will have to sanction a relatively huge sum of money to get someone in - and the sooner the better as games are going by and we have Chelsea away Sunday week. If the board fail to sanction such a move, then they are signing a death warrant. They also have to make a decision about Moyes - is he really the man to lead the club. And if he is not or if there are serious doubts in their mind, just how much money should they back him with this month?
Failure to make the top 4 will be a disaster for a club like United in the short term - i.e. 5 years. What it could mean long term will depend what happened in the first two years. The club will lose RVP, Rooney, Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs (retirement) and possibly De Gea this summer alone. It will be enxt to impossible to sign any big name stars - not least becuase the lack of CL revenue will mean lack of funds - and on top of that players across the board will be taking wage cuts. This time next year it is conceivable that you could be a team relying on the likes of Welbeck and Cleverly - and therefore possibly considering a top 10 finish as somewhat of an achievment.
At a commercial level the lack of CL football would hit home very hard. Woodward to his credit has worked hard to bring in sponsorship deals - but that will all dry up if the club sinks down the table - and therefore it will affect any funds available to bring players in. The debt that saddles the club is the real noose around the neck I feel - and the owners and the interest on the debt can only be satisfied with success on the field to bring in revenue to cover the debt off it. Failure to qualify for CL football would be a disaster in that regard.
One would hope that if the worst came to the worst, the Glazers would get out and let someone else take over the club - with the backing of the supporters trust. Only when that happens can the club be completely free again. And write it into the charter of the club that no future owner can ever saddle the club with debt in order to purchase it again - though I dont know if that would be possible.
Interesting times ahead, Chinese style.

Mitch Connor

JRant wrote: »

As it was under Fergie for the past 2/3 aswell though.

So?

Moyes is the manager now, with responsibility for the style of play and the squad - and he is into his second transfer window, with absolutely nothing done to improve matters.

Moyes doesn't get a buy for crap, just cause Fergie offered up similar. Though I would also argue our style of play is worse than it was under Fergie, with Moyes bring none of the improvements I expected of him - our defending isn't better, we don't press better, our tempo is slower, we are more predictable.

sReq | uTeK

kstand wrote: »

Was it not down to the fact he wasnt getting first team football? probably took one look at Cleverly getting games and went "he's taking the piss now" and jacked it in.

Obviously the nail in the coffin was when Raf and Park started in midfield, just remember these decisions ferguson made when judging moyes, everyone gets things wrong, ferguson would cut off his nose to spite his face just to show who was boss and if that meant losing a game I don't think he dwelled on it too much at all.

JRant

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So?

Moyes is the manager now, with responsibility for the style of play and the squad - and he is into his second transfer window, with absolutely nothing done to improve matters.

Moyes doesn't get a buy for crap, just cause Fergie offered up similar. Though I would also argue our style of play is worse than it was under Fergie, with Moyes bring none of the improvements I expected of him - our defending isn't better, we don't press better, our tempo is slower, we are more predictable.

The only point I'm trying to make is that the brand of football this season is much the same as last season minus a few key players through injuries.

All those things you suggest are exactly what I'd be looking for but they take time to implement. That coupled to the fact that a few players look like they couldn't care less and need to be gotten rid of.

kstand

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Obviously the nail in the coffin was when Raf and Park started in midfield, just remember these decisions ferguson made when judging moyes, everyone gets things wrong, ferguson would cut off his nose to spite his face just to show who was boss and if that meant losing a game I don't think he dwelled on it too much at all.

He has done it time and again. For every great signing there was also a dud.
I agree with Keane - his fall out with Magnier and McManus ended up with the Glazers buying the coub - and the situiation we are in today.

Mitch Connor

JRant wrote: »

The only point I'm trying to make is that the brand of football this season is much the same as last season minus a few key players through injuries.

All those things you suggest are exactly what I'd be looking for but they take time to implement. That coupled to the fact that a few players look like they couldn't care less and need to be gotten rid of.

But i don't see any signs we are implementing any of it.

I don't see any signs we are starting on the squad overhaul required - doing it all in summer 2014 is madness (and given how poor Woodward was at negotiations last summer, probably futile).

As for the injuries, they have really taken hold in the last month or so, but the start of the season wasn't too bad with regards midfield/forwards anyway.

bucketybuck

magnumbud wrote: »

he has played 11 pl games but he certainly didnt start(i know cause of my FF) he came on as a sub a few of those games.

Not a few of those games, one of those games, 33mins against West Brom.

JRant

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But i don't see any signs we are implementing any of it.

I don't see any signs we are starting on the squad overhaul required - doing it all in summer 2014 is madness (and given how poor Woodward was at negotiations last summer, probably futile).

As for the injuries, they have really taken hold in the last month or so, but the start of the season wasn't too bad with regards midfield/forwards anyway.

Can't disagree with the jist of what your saying and have said similar enough things myself. Maybe just trying to be the devils advocate here.

Your right about waiting till summer 2014. A time when we've always struggled to bring players in is WC years. Moyes is making a huge rod for his own back if he doesn't strengthen now

Mikeyt086

Going to start something new, and slightly insane I realise but its in good fun.

Everyday I am going to try and round-up the transfer news, give my opinion on how likely it is to happen, how the deal would effect us, and how excited I would be about it.

The rating system I will use will be the Winnie The Pooh system, where I use characters from Winnie The Pooh in the following positivity scale:

Eeyore:



Utterly depressed. We have made no moves and we won't either, oh god we're not going to make top 4 are we?

Rabbit:



Pissed off. Why are we not making moves? Other teams are making moves and we should be too!

Pooh:



Content. I knew we wouldn't make any moves, I guess its time to hope RVP can drag us over the line.

Piglet:



Happy. Hey! We made a move! Thats more than I expected so hopefully it has the desired effect.

Tigger:



Delighted. We signed a bloody midfielder! We did it! Oh god we actually did it!

---

First up is today's link to Juventus midfielder Claudio Marchisio:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-manchester-united-offer-20m-for-juventus-star-claudio-marchisio--reports-9048328.html

According to reports in Italy we have submit a £20m bid for Juve midfielder Marchisio.

What type of player?

A true CM, can play in a 2 or 3 man midfield, would partner Carrick. Can pass, tackle, and pops up with the odd goal.

What are the chances of signing him?

That depends. On the one hand, he has fallen down the pecking order at Juve behind Pogba, Vidal, and Pirlo, he is not playing regularly and would surely like to have more of an impact with it being a World Cup year, he also reportedly said "If a club like Man United or PSG is interested in me then I will take that as a compliment." after speculation in the summer, but he also re-iterated his desire to stay at Juve, where he has been for his entire career. He clearly wants to play for Juve, but this all depends on how badly he needs first teams football.

Happiness rating were deal to go through:

Piglet

He is 27 and could give us some good years as well as hopefully making an impact right away.

Current overall happiness rating:

Eeyore

J. Marston

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

The final straw was when Park and Rafael started in midfield ahead of him in a game.

Pisses me off every time I read about it.

Kerrydude1981

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Going to start something new, and slightly insane I realise but its in good fun.

Everyday I am going to try and round-up the transfer news, give my opinion on how likely it is to happen, how the deal would effect us, and how excited I would be about it.

The rating system I will use will be the Winnie The Pooh system, where I use characters from Winnie The Pooh in the following positivity scale:

Eeyore:



Utterly depressed. We have made no moves and we won't either, oh god we're not going to make top 4 are we?

Rabbit:



Pissed off. Why are we not making moves? Other teams are making moves and we should be too!

Pooh:



Content. I knew we wouldn't make any moves, I guess its time to hope RVP can drag us over the line.

Piglet:



Happy. Hey! We made a move! Thats more than I expected so hopefully it has the desired effect.

Tigger:



Delighted. We signed a bloody midfielder! We did it! Oh god we actually did it!

---

First up is today's link to Juventus midfielder Claudio Marchisio:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-manchester-united-offer-20m-for-juventus-star-claudio-marchisio--reports-9048328.html

According to reports in Italy we have submit a £20m bid for Juve midfielder Marchisio.

What type of player?

A true CM, can play in a 2 or 3 man midfield, would partner Carrick. Can pass, tackle, and pops up with the odd goal.

What are the chances of signing him?

That depends. On the one hand, he has fallen down the pecking order at Juve behind Pogba, Vidal, and Pirlo, he is not playing regularly and would surely like to have more of an impact with it being a World Cup year, he also reportedly said "If a club like Man United or PSG is interested in me then I will take that as a compliment." after speculation in the summer, but he also re-iterated his desire to stay at Juve, where he has been for his entire career. He clearly wants to play for Juve, but this all depends on how badly he needs first teams football.

Happiness rating were deal to go through:

Piglet

He is 27 and could give us some good years as well as hopefully making an impact right away.

Current overall happiness rating:

Eeyore

Looking forward to tomorrows transfer story

aperture_nuig

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Going to start something new, and slightly insane I realise but its in good fun.

Everyday I am going to try and round-up the transfer news, give my opinion on how likely it is to happen, how the deal would effect us, and how excited I would be about it.

The rating system I will use will be the Winnie The Pooh system, where I use characters from Winnie The Pooh in the following positivity scale:

Eeyore:



Utterly depressed. We have made no moves and we won't either, oh god we're not going to make top 4 are we?

Rabbit:



Pissed off. Why are we not making moves? Other teams are making moves and we should be too!

Pooh:



Content. I knew we wouldn't make any moves, I guess its time to hope RVP can drag us over the line.

Piglet:



Happy. Hey! We made a move! Thats more than I expected so hopefully it has the desired effect.

Tigger:



Delighted. We signed a bloody midfielder! We did it! Oh god we actually did it!

---

First up is today's link to Juventus midfielder Claudio Marchisio:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-manchester-united-offer-20m-for-juventus-star-claudio-marchisio--reports-9048328.html

According to reports in Italy we have submit a m bid for Juve midfielder Marchisio.

What type of player?

A true CM, can play in a 2 or 3 man midfield, would partner Carrick. Can pass, tackle, and pops up with the odd goal.

What are the chances of signing him?

That depends. On the one hand, he has fallen down the pecking order at Juve behind Pogba, Vidal, and Pirlo, he is not playing regularly and would surely like to have more of an impact with it being a World Cup year, he also reportedly said "If a club like Man United or PSG is interested in me then I will take that as a compliment." after speculation in the summer, but he also re-iterated his desire to stay at Juve, where he has been for his entire career. He clearly wants to play for Juve, but this all depends on how badly he needs first teams football.

Happiness rating were deal to go through:

Piglet

He is 27 and could give us some good years as well as hopefully making an impact right away.

Current overall happiness rating:

Eeyore

Outstanding

grames_bond

Mikey you have done it again!! I think this may make the transfer window bearable!!


/gets coat

onemorechance

... just like Arsenal did with Arsene Wenger

Arsene Wenger’s early Arsenal record can reassure David Moyes that slow and steady can win the race… by next season.

Wenger took charge of the Gunners in September 1996 and five months on he had succumbed to seven domestic defeats, just like Moyes.

Among these losses included a similarly humiliating FA Cup defeat to Leeds United, who like Swansea, were mid-table in the Premier League.

Fast-forward to the end of the 1996/97 campaign and Arsenal had recovered to win six of their remaining ten league games to finish third.

A heavy summer of recruitment, which Moyes could have done with in the summer transfer window, brought in the signings of Marc Overmars and Emmanuel Petit.

The two combined with the rest of Wenger’s already talented squad to lift the Premier League title for the first time as well as the FA Cup in the double-winning season of 1997-98.

Luckily for Moyes, Manchester United appear willing to provide him with the opportunity to follow in Wenger’s footsteps, with reports this morning claiming that the club's owners, the Glazers, are willing to provide substantial funding for new additions.

If the Red Devils finish this season strong and recruit well next summer, get all of your money on a Manchester United league and cup double.

UK Independent

Pro. F

JRant wrote: »

The only point I'm trying to make is that the brand of football this season is much the same as last season minus a few key players through injuries.

The football United are playing this season is nothing like what was played under Fergie at any point in his time at the club. Yes, Fergie's team produced some poor football at times, including last season, but never anything like this.

Not only was the quality miles better under Ferguson, the style was also very different. The rigid attacking pattern with lack of off the ball movement and variation, the emphasis on passing combinations to play the fullbacks into space, the emphasis on crossing, these are all new. On the defensive side, the shape and pressing are different. This season the CMs often chase up the pitch when defending, just like Moyes' at Everton did and unlike how Fergie's team defended. And then you have the complete lack of energy in the last 10-20 minutes of games. The team are now always struggling in that period, just like Everton used to and in stark contrast to how United used to dominate the latter stages.

jonnyfingers

onemorechance wrote: »

... just like Arsenal did with Arsene Wenger



UK Independent

While what's written in that article sounds positive I'm nor sure it can actually happen. While I do think with a bit of investment we can be right up there challenging for the title next year I beginning to lose faith in Moyes. I think a truly world class manager could take our ailing squad and drag them to victories that get us to the top 4. Wenger is a good example, for years without investment he got his inadequate squad consistently into the top 4. With investment and good signings he created possibly the best Arsenal squad of all time and had success. I'm glad they're doing well again this season as I have a lot of respect for Wenger. I'm not sure Moyes is as good as him, but he has the rest of the season to prove it. If he can get us in the top 4 by the end of the season then he will definitely have earned the right to invest in the squad and give it a good go next season. If not there will be some questioning him bit he'll still have a chance. If by the end of next season we're still way off the pace then he may need to go. I really wish him all the best. I don't mind a bad season if it leads to a great few years, I just struggle to see it right now.

The_Kew_Tour

Our Pressing game or lack of it shall I put it is something that has me annoyed.

Our game when defending in around opposition box is for to try win ball in around midfied or back to full backs.

But I think we should be structured so that we double press opposing players much more and try win the ball higher up the pitch.

To his credit Welbeck proved against Madrid that he has qualities to close down quickly and Rooney, RVP and even Chico(done it well with Mexico) are super when required. Valencia is also excellent from past seasons.

We should be doing this at home against the WBA and Norwichs of this world at least.

We have the players to do it and im very confident it would prove to be fruitful over a season.

onemorechance

jonnyfingers wrote: »

While what's written in that article sounds positive I'm nor sure it can actually happen. While I do think with a bit of investment we can be right up there challenging for the title next year I beginning to lose faith in Moyes. I think a truly world class manager could take our ailing squad and drag them to victories that get us to the top 4. Wenger is a good example, for years without investment he got his inadequate squad consistently into the top 4. With investment and good signings he created possibly the best Arsenal squad of all time and had success. I'm glad they're doing well again this season as I have a lot of respect for Wenger. I'm not sure Moyes is as good as him, but he has the rest of the season to prove it. If he can get us in the top 4 by the end of the season then he will definitely have earned the right to invest in the squad and give it a good go next season. If not there will be some questioning him bit he'll still have a chance. If by the end of next season we're still way off the pace then he may need to go. I really wish him all the best. I don't mind a bad season if it leads to a great few years, I just struggle to see it right now.

It can happen, it's just of case of will it happen! :pac:

Right now, it is likely a tougher situation for United than it was for Arsenal in that season.

For one, there is pretty much zero chance of Arsenal and City dropping out of the top 4. There is close to zero chance of Chelsea dropping out, and based on form so far, Liverpool seem able to keep 4th. Then of course there is still Everton and Spurs ahead of United.

Getting 4th from the current situation would be one of United's greatest ever achievements. It really doesn't look like it will happen though.

Vic Vinegar

If we managed to get a goal in the early part of our games, we would be better off. The last bunch of games have seen us dominate the first twenty minutes by and large, but without getting the reward for our dominance. If we got that goal, the opposition would have to open up more to get back into the game and that's where we could hurt them some more on the counter. When we don't score early, we generally just run out of ideas eventually and revert to boring style.

Hopefully we can get an early goal against Swansea, get some confidence flowing and rip them a new a-hole.

kippy

jonnyfingers wrote: »

While what's written in that article sounds positive I'm nor sure it can actually happen. While I do think with a bit of investment we can be right up there challenging for the title next year I beginning to lose faith in Moyes. I think a truly world class manager could take our ailing squad and drag them to victories that get us to the top 4. Wenger is a good example, for years without investment he got his inadequate squad consistently into the top 4. With investment and good signings he created possibly the best Arsenal squad of all time and had success. I'm glad they're doing well again this season as I have a lot of respect for Wenger. I'm not sure Moyes is as good as him, but he has the rest of the season to prove it. If he can get us in the top 4 by the end of the season then he will definitely have earned the right to invest in the squad and give it a good go next season. If not there will be some questioning him bit he'll still have a chance. If by the end of next season we're still way off the pace then he may need to go. I really wish him all the best. I don't mind a bad season if it leads to a great few years, I just struggle to see it right now.

How many truely "world class" managers have been at City and Chelsea over the last decade and how many of them managed to drag an "actual" world class squad to the success that fans crave?

Moyes needs time, ANY manager will need time. Its that simple.

The_Kew_Tour

Is it just me, but is it annoying that we cant even play well for 45 minutes?

Perfect example was Fulham game away this season. Go 3-0 up. Playing lovely stuff. Next thing its back to usual tripe for 70 minutes. Fulham won that 70 minute period 1-0 even.

Same against Spurs. Go 0-2 down, reply, play great stuff for 7-8 minutes and then bang we are back to normal.

The_Kew_Tour

If this is true it says a lot and makes the excuse that no money is available seem pretty poor one

Gundogan, Mkhitarian and Marco Reus' wages add up to 100k a week and Ashley Young is earning £120k a week. Cleverley 80k

I understand German and Italian league players are hard to sign outside those leagues, but that is a depressing and shows where we are wasting money.

Headshot

Makes me fair sick that Young is on that much, pure sickening