PCP finance.

Villain

I think people are being a little ignorant when it comes to Dacia, the depreciation and drop in resale value is unlikely to be as bad as an EV.

Villain

Villain wrote: »

I think people are being a little ignorant when it comes to Dacia, the depreciation and drop in resale value is unlikely to be as bad as an EV.

Jesus lad, give the anti EV drivel a rest .

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus lad, give the anti EV drivel a rest .

Lol anti EV???

You actually having a laugh <SNIP>? I fecking own one, I've spent endless hours fighting with the ESB and civil servants to work towards improving the EV offering.

All you do is blindly support EV because you had a thread here for ages going on about buying one and God forbid someone mentions the issues that EV have here in Ireland.

People deserve to know the truth not the rose tinted view you want to portray to back up your decision.

LOL I know you own an EV that's what makes what you type and say in Public even more laughable. 'fighting the ESB"

"More expensive than diesel"

"truth and rose tinted glasses"

Unreal.

I've no rose tinted glasses. I tell it as it is.

Seems like you should do yourself a favour and get a diesel.

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL I know you own an EV that's what makes what you type and say in Public even more laughable. 'fighting the ESB"

"More expensive than diesel"

"truth and rose tinted glasses"

Unreal.

I've no rose tinted glasses. I tell it as it is.

Seems like you should do yourself a favour and get a diesel.

Context is an amazing thing, more expensive than diesel for a fast charge compared to diesel based on the planned pricing by ESB e-cars is accurate.

However you seem unwilling to accept any reality that isn't positive.

So you think me starting a petition that got me radio time on the last word, a face to face meeting with head of ESB e-cars and discussions with senior civil servants and Ministers advisors is laughable? Really explain how that is laughable?

While you post here in threads some of us actually go and do something meaningful for EVs.

Yes laughable because too many people have said to me that because of your little rant that electrics are too expensive to run, creating way more damage than the proposed ESB charges.

You still don't accept the majority of driving will be done from the home charge point.

So if the occasional trip is as expensive as diesel who cares ?

By the time the majority of people change to EV there will be a minimum of 300 Km range, our little 120 Km range electrics will be the only electrics so dependent on the network. And they are very few on the road.

DELETED COMMENT

Not worth it.!

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes laughable because too many people have said to me that because of your little rant that electrics are too expensive to run, creating way more damage than the proposed ESB charges.

You still don't accept the majority of driving will be done from the home charge point.

So if the occasional trip is as expensive as diesel who cares ?

By the time the majority of people change to EV there will be a minimum of 300 Km range, our little 120 Km range electrics will be the only electrics so dependent on the network. And they are very few on the road.

My little rant doing damage? That's funny considering how many EV owners messaged me thanking me for my work, but hey you know better than all of those people who have had EVs for years before you right?

You have gone from saying that "More expensive than diesel" was laughable to saying "So if the occasional trip is as expensive as diesel who cares ?"

So which is it, laughable or true?

flamegrill

Getting a bit off topic eh?

It is that's why I deleted my comment but Villian quoted me too fast !

jca

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is that's why I deleted my comment but Villian quoted me too fast !

You do have to admit that you have an advantage in having free daytime rate electricity at work, a luxury that not many of us would have if we chose to buy an EV.

jca

jca wrote: »

You do have to admit that you have an advantage in having free daytime rate electricity at work, a luxury that not many of us would have if we chose to buy an EV.

I have a great advantage that when I get the 30 kwh leaf then all my commute will be free.

However, I think I have calculated out enough times that even if I didn't have free work charging the the cost of me driving 135-140 Kms daily with a 10 min top up at a fast charger at the proposed ESB charges would have still cost much less than diesel.

This is daily usage and so if a few trips a year cost as much as diesel I don't see the big deal.

If some people have a grudge just because I have free work charging then I think it's time to get over it and look at the facts.

jca

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have a great advantage that when I get the 30 kwh leaf then all my commute will be free.

However, I think I have calculated out enough times that even if I didn't have free work charging the the cost of me driving 135-140 Kms daily with a 10 min top up at a fast charger at the proposed ESB charges would have still cost much less than diesel.

This is daily usage and so if a few trips a year cost as much as diesel I don't see the big deal.

If some people have a grudge just because I have free work charging then I think it's time to get over it and look at the facts.

There's no need to get snappy about it I don't have a grudge about you having free juice while in work. If I knew I had that perk it would certainly sway me into buying an EV. In a vain effort to get back on track how are EV 's holding their value? Are they above or below the magic 50% of their original value after 3 years?

jca

jca wrote: »

There's no need to get snappy about it I don't have a grudge about you having free juice while in work. If I knew I had that perk it would certainly sway me into buying an EV. In a vain effort to get back on track how are EV 's holding their value? Are they above or below the magic 50% of their original value after 3 years?

I wasn't being "snappy" at you .

They are holding their value a bit better than all but the premium brands as expected.

However, 2nd hand leafs from July built 2013 would be cracking 2nd hand cars that cost extremely little to run.

roy rodgers

Lads this has nothing to do with pcp finances so pi$$ off , get your own trend and stop wasting my time reading your horsesh1e.
I'm in the middle of buying a car and would appreciate other people's experiences of pcp and not listening to my car is better than your car crap.

Villain

roy rodgers wrote: »

Lads this has nothing to do with pcp finances so pi$$ off , get your own trend and stop wasting my time reading your horsesh1e.
I'm in the middle of buying a car and would appreciate other people's experiences of pcp and not listening to my car is better than your car crap.

Well if your thinking of buying an EV is worth considering

carsfan

Another thing I have in my head... Are we waiting some sort off pcp Bubble to burst? I am pretty sure sales of new cars increased, but market is flooded with overpriced 131 cars. With pcp looking so good, why would you go with 131 car. Is it me or pcp is like a financial pyramid that is waiting to go bust.[/QUOTE]

Have to agree with this.
Looking around at relatively new secondhands where previously there would have been value, all I see are expensive asking prices that seem designed to make the new car the more attractive option. I'm still not sure a lot of people realise what they are doing with pcp.

vintagevrs

2nd hand market is stronger now than it will be in a few years I expect. Less cars sold 3 years ago so less supply of cars means higher prices. With new sales numbers high again this will negatively impact 2nd prices in a few years. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on if you are buying or selling obviously.

There is no wizardry with PCP if people understand what they are doing.

Buy a 30k car. Say 10k deposit so you finance the 20k through pcp over three years. That 20k finance is no different to any other loan. You just have more options. The main difference is it is broken into smaller monthly payments than a "normal" loan as there is a balloon payment at the end.

I do think customers are misled intentionally by how pcp works by dealerships though.

Many people think they pay their monthlies and will get a brand new car every year with no top up as it is sold that way. This may happen, but it is also very likely it will not. The is especially true as already mentioned, the 2nd hand market is likely stronger now than it will be when it is flooded in a few years.

There are problems with 2nd hand car prices in the U.K due to the massive amount of PCP, but they've had PCP for years.

Eventually they will probably decide not to offer PCP if it becomes a problem in Ireland but at the same time they'll want to sell new cars. So hard to know what will happen.

MarkN

vintagevrs wrote: »

There is no wizardry with PCP if people understand what they are doing.

Buy a 30k car. Say 10k deposit so you finance the 20k through pcp over three years. That 20k finance is no different to any other loan. You just have more options. The main difference is it is broken into smaller monthly payments than a "normal" loan as there is a balloon payment at the end.

You're not technically financing the 20k though as the full amount isn't factored into the monthly repayment. I'm sure you know this but just to clarify for people that are probably already confused reading this thread.

vintagevrs

Well you are as you pay interest on the full amount so I would say you are. But I know what you mean.

ShadowHearth

I noticed that in last two years all dealers were pushing a minimum value of car after 3 years. Now all of this is gone. They just talking about final payment or trade in for new car, but no mentioning of guaranteed minimum value.

I think dealers already feeling the pinch. As pyramid goes, those who took out those new cars few years ago with pcp were winning out, but those who taking now pcp might get a surprise after 3 years as they are late to the party.

I still strongly considering pcp right now, but at the same time being very careful. I wouldn't take on pcp something flashy like audi.
Something cheapish and small, where last payment is manageable might be better option if you plan 3 years ahead and not just blindly go for "new car with small payments!!! Who ****ing cares about future, future me will deal with that problem!!"

Another thing, how much is yearly millage allowance? I sow 10k km, which is really really tiny. Its like 30km per day.

jca

roy rodgers wrote: »

Lads this has nothing to do with pcp finances so pi$$ off , get your own trend and stop wasting my time reading your horsesh1e.
I'm in the middle of buying a car and would appreciate other people's experiences of pcp and not listening to my car is better than your car crap.

Go and buy a car then and stop being such a drama queen. The in's and out's of pcp have been very well explained on this thread to the point of repetition. If you were more specific about the car and finance deal you were considering the posters here including myself would be more than happy to advise ( if that's what you want)

Mileage only applies when handing the car back at the end of the contract and walking away, however very high mileage will effect your trade in value.

My limit is 25,000 Kms.

My GFMV on the 151 Leaf is something like 12,500 , on the 161 it will be 11,350, the lower the GFMV the greater the chance of value in the car for a deposit going forward. They want you coming back after all.

Mileage only applies when handing the car back at the end of the contract and walking away, however very high mileage will effect your trade in value.

My limit is 25,000 Kms.

My GFMV on the 151 Leaf is something like 12,500 , on the 161 it will be 11,350, the lower the GFMV the greater the chance of value in the car for a deposit going forward. They want you coming back after all.

sillysocks

carsfan wrote: »

Looking around at relatively new secondhands where previously there would have been value, all I see are expensive asking prices that seem designed to make the new car the more attractive option. I'm still not sure a lot of people realise what they are doing with pcp.

Was in a garage today and it was as if they were giving the cars away for nothing - swarms of people, nobody looking at the second hand, pretty much all just looking at the new cars. There was a forecourt bursting with second hand one/two/three year old cars but when I asked about those I was told it was pretty much the same cost to have the brand new. They're definitely pushing the new car option.

flamegrill

Lets break down PCP once again, from the beginning.

Car (SV) is 30,000 euro. Deposit (DP), 10%, 3000 euro.
GFV: 12,500 euro
Finance cost (FC): 1,500 euro
Term: 36 months
We do the following math to get the finance amount.

(SV - DP - GFV + FC) / Term.

So in this example:

30000 - 3000 - 12500 + 1500 / 36 = 445 euro

Essentially, the finance is not for the 'amount financed' that the quotes say, it's essentially the depreciation or the 'worst depreciation possible' that the finance house is willing to accept.

It's not quite a lease, but it's not quite a loan either. It's a hybrid of the two. It allows a consumer to 'have use of a car' for 3 years that could probably be too expensive for them to own on hire purchase. it also means that manufacturers are guaranteeing churn on new cars every 3 years and thus making a market for new cars.

I hope this helps.

roy rodgers

It all down to your own cash flow needs. I'm self employed and the pcp works for me.
I'm gonna buy a tuscon and put down 10.5k of a deposit.
My repayments are 270 a month and there will be about 11k to repay in 3 years time.
It will suit me better to pay off the rest of the loan in 3 years time but I suppose time will tell.

The key is to remember that if your getting a car for 30k it has to be paid back at some stage either in 3 years or 6 or 9 or 12 whenever.
Yes it's cheap finance now but in 3 years time I can also see that sizable deposits will be need for the 191 reg. I'm going into this very cautiously and it was to long ago that there was dark days and let's not forget that we were drunk on credit as enda says!!

Make it work for you and becareful

ShadowHearth

sillysocks wrote: »

Was in a garage today and it was as if they were giving the cars away for nothing - swarms of people, nobody looking at the second hand, pretty much all just looking at the new cars. There was a forecourt bursting with second hand one/two/three year old cars but when I asked about those I was told it was pretty much the same cost to have the brand new. They're definitely pushing the new car option.

If thats the case, then no surprise second hand market is ****ed outside of bangornomics **** boxes. Everyone just getting cheap run around or a brand new car.
No wonder I am having issues selling my car right now.

Wow, I can't believe I started this thread just over 2 years ago and 87,250 posts later it's still going !

Hope it's been informative for you all !

Hopefully it continues for a few more years to see how you all get on at the end of your contracts !

Drummerboy08

ShadowHearth wrote: »

If thats the case, then no surprise second hand market is ****ed outside of bangornomics **** boxes. Everyone just getting cheap run around or a brand new car.
No wonder I am having issues selling my car right now.

The second hand market is fcuked because people didn't buy cars in 08/09/10/11 and as a result there is now a shortage of good second hand cars on the market.

This results in the value of second hand cars becoming stronger - supply and demand - and close the purchase price to a new car.

Hasn't really anything to do with PCP.

pippip

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The second hand market is fcuked because people didn't buy cars in 08/09/10/11 and as a result there is now a shortage of good second hand cars on the market.

This results in the value of second hand cars becoming stronger - supply and demand - and close the purchase price to a new car.

Hasn't really anything to do with PCP.

Yeh but low repayments on PCP is the only reason a lot of these people can even afford a brand new car. If that option wasn't there the car markets here would be completely different.

Drummerboy08

pippip wrote: »

Yeh but low repayments on PCP is the only reason a lot of these people can even afford a brand new car. If that option wasn't there the car markets here would be completely different.

PCP is available on used vehicles also.

Not really sure what difference it makes in any case.

ShadowHearth

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The second hand market is fcuked because people didn't buy cars in 08/09/10/11 and as a result there is now a shortage of good second hand cars on the market.

This results in the value of second hand cars becoming stronger - supply and demand - and close the purchase price to a new car.

Hasn't really anything to do with PCP.

It actually does. If your average Joe has 5-7k eu to spend, he most likely fascinated with pcp and go with pcp instead of second car. Dealers are pushing new cars over used stock too. It was mentioned already.
That's just my opinion, which could be wrong too.

Drummerboy08

ShadowHearth wrote: »

It actually does. If your average Joe has 5-7k eu to spend, he most likely fascinated with pcp and go with pcp instead of second car. Dealers are pushing new cars over used stock too. It was mentioned already.
That's just my opinion, which could be wrong too.

Yeah but that's down to the individual and his decision, not what the market dictates.

carsfan

Re second hand values, I'm looking at cars that new are 60-65k but at a year old or 18 months the dealers are asking 55 to 58 k.
I always thought a car lost the most on its first year so in my head a car that is 65 new should be 50 after a year or 18 months. I don't see that and so at the current asking prices it makes no sense not to go new and have a brand new car to your own spec.
I don't see what this has to do with the car market from 2009 to 2013.
I reckon the sterling situation has stopped many imports so the supply of cheaper high spec second hand cars has reduced also after the crash people now want to treat themselves again and a new car for a reasonable outlay on pcp fits the bill for that.

jca

carsfan wrote: »

Re second hand values, I'm looking at cars that new are 60-65k but at a year old or 18 months the dealers are asking 55 to 58 k.
I always thought a car lost the most on its first year so in my head a car that is 65 new should be 50 after a year or 18 months. I don't see that and so at the current asking prices it makes no sense not to go new and have a brand new car to your own spec.
I don't see what this has to do with the car market from 2009 to 2013.
I reckon the sterling situation has stopped many imports so the supply of cheaper high spec second hand cars has reduced also after the crash people now want to treat themselves again and a new car for a reasonable outlay on pcp fits the bill for that.

Your last sentence is where the future problems lie, "reasonable outlay" but it isn't reasonable outlay as a poster said earlier, the hard way or the easy way the car will have to be paid for in full. Many I talk to about it think that it's giving them a new car every 3 years for small monthly payments...

markad1

I have a new VW golf on order and will be availing of pcp with an apr of 1.9% The gfmv is 10k. The financial person was upfront saying when the 3 years is up it will cost in the region of 4k to change into a new golf with the same spec I ordered.
I was surprised to hear this but appreciated the honest approach.

markad1

markad1 wrote: »

I have a new VW golf on order and will be availing of pcp with an apr of 1.9% The gfmv is 10k. The financial person was upfront saying when the 3 years is up it will cost in the region of 4k to change into a new golf with the same spec I ordered.
I was surprised to hear this but appreciated the honest approach.

What spec, Engine did you get , what was the total cost ?

markad1

1.6tdi 5 speed Highline with "few" extras coming in around 32k ish.

Lantus

markad1 wrote: »

I have a new VW golf on order and will be availing of pcp with an apr of 1.9% The gfmv is 10k. The financial person was upfront saying when the 3 years is up it will cost in the region of 4k to change into a new golf with the same spec I ordered.
I was surprised to hear this but appreciated the honest approach.

That could be the case if you traded in an existing car which had a high value. That would lower your monthly payments. At the end the equity is about the same irrespective of your initial deposit. So to keep monthly payments the same you'd need to invest more capitol. Maybe that's what they meant?

All but the oldest cars will have some value which could create a scenario like this.

Drummerboy08

Lantus wrote: »

That could be the case if you traded in an existing car which had a high value. That would lower your monthly payments. At the end the equity is about the same irrespective of your initial deposit. So to keep monthly payments the same you'd need to invest more capitol. Maybe that's what they meant?

All but the oldest cars will have some value which could create a scenario like this.

Thats exactly what he meant I think.

With VW, around 20% deposit is ideal, there's usually around 20% equity in them after 3 years.

Falcon L

Lantus wrote: »

That could be the case if you traded in an existing car which had a high value. That would lower your monthly payments. At the end the equity is about the same irrespective of your initial deposit. So to keep monthly payments the same you'd need to invest more capitol. Maybe that's what they meant?

All but the oldest cars will have some value which could create a scenario like this.

In this scenario, can you opt to have higher monthly payments to cover any future shortfall?

I suppose that leads to my other question: can you set a monthly payment that would enable you to keep paying the same monthly amount and keep renewing the car every 3 years, without further lump sum payment?

I appreciate that your payments might have to rise due to inflation, higher new car costs etc.

markad1

markad1 wrote: »

1.6tdi 5 speed Highline with "few" extras coming in around 32k ish.

What are the extras ? just curious.

Ron Burgundy II

markad1 wrote: »

1.6tdi 5 speed Highline with "few" extras coming in around 32k ish.

Highline should be 6 speed. Trendline and I believe comfortline are 5 speed in the golf range.

My highline golf 1.4TSI has 6 speed gearbox .

Does no one opt for the DSG or would they rather have more gadgets ?

DSG would be brilliant with Auto Cruise. It's great in the A4 my Brother has , scared the crap out of me int he beginning but I could imagine the benefit on congested motorways.

Does no one opt for the DSG or would they rather have more gadgets ?

DSG would be brilliant with Auto Cruise. It's great in the A4 my Brother has , scared the crap out of me int he beginning but I could imagine the benefit on congested motorways.

Ron Burgundy II

Deleted User wrote: »

Does no one opt for the DSG or would they rather have more gadgets ?

DSG would be brilliant with Auto Cruise. It's great in the A4 my Brother has , scared the crap out of me int he beginning but I could imagine the benefit on congested motorways.

Well I didn't spec too much on my car, just a winter pack and one or two small items. VW offered a technology pack with the car as part of the 161 offer. DSG had crossed my mind but I felt it would suit a more powerful car than mine. Also it's adds a nice bit of money to the car. It was pushing me beyond the limit I wanted to spend.

mickdw

Falcon L wrote: »

In this scenario, can you opt to have higher monthly payments to cover any future shortfall?

I suppose that leads to my other question: can you set a monthly payment that would enable you to keep paying the same monthly amount and keep renewing the car every 3 years, without further lump sum payment?

I appreciate that your payments might have to rise due to inflation, higher new car costs etc.

Basically what you need to do is work out how much over the gfv the car will be worth at end of year 3. This is the deposit you would have on next car without further cash investment.
Now look at current Proposed purchase..... If you can afford the monthly payment with a deposit similar to what you will have next time around, you are in great shape and should be able to jump from new car to new car every 3 years without further cash deposit.
If on the other hand you can only afford the car now because you are going in with a large deposit that had built up in your old car, you will find yourself in trouble at year 3 as you will need to come up with cash or else much larger payments.

markad1

Had a loan of a 1.6 diesel with dsg, I didn't like it. The new highline has 5 speed box, I queried it thinking it should be 6.
The extras I put on are r line exterior, tech pack, xenon lights, rear led and winter pack.