Boiler needs replacing - landlord broke!

ShaShaBear

So, long story short we've been renting here for 8 months now, and the boiler for heating packed in on Sunday night. We rang the landlord straight away, and after a lot of messing, we were told today that the whole boiler has to be replaced, and it will be around 2k. He all but said he doesn't have it, and has no idea what he is going to do.

Obviously we can't stay in a house with no heating in the long term, especially since I am 4 months pregnant. We go through an estate agent, but deal with the landlord for repairs and such. Where do we go from here if it doesn't look like it will be sorted? What's a reasonable amount of time to wait for it to be fixed? Would we be entitled to negotiate being released from the contract if it couldn't be fixed for the forseeable future?

Paulw

Ask the landlord if you can get it done (if you can afford it), and then take it out of the rent over the coming months.

ShaShaBear

Paulw wrote: »

Ask the landlord if you can get it done (if you can afford it), and then take it out of the rent over the coming months.

We've a baby on the way, we wouldn't be able to get €2000 from anywhere at any point in the near future, certainly not within a reasonable timeframe to heat a freezing house!

K.Flyer

Paulw wrote: »

Ask the landlord if you can get it done (if you can afford it), and then take it out of the rent over the coming months.

Pretty much your only option or move out.

Edit: Is it a gas boiler?

Doom

He has to by law, he'll have to get a loan or do a deal with a gas boiler installation company.

ShaShaBear

K.Flyer wrote: »

Pretty much your only option or move out.

We are contracted until May, and there are no other options for moving out at present, just checked Daft. We're waiting to hear from the landlord tomorrow to see what he plans to do, but I was just wondering if this was reason to safely break contract and get deposit back. We would definitely not be in a position to pay two grand to fix a boiler, we have enough outgoings at the minute!

Oral Surgeon

I'm sure this is grounds to break the lease. Find somewhere else.. Even if he does fix it, what happens when the next thing breaks??

ShaShaBear

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

I'm sure this is grounds to break the lease. Find somewhere else.. Even if he does fix it, what happens when the next thing breaks??

That's what worries us. I know that it is a huge expense, but a boiler packing in would suggest to me it hasn't been serviced or maintained. Obviously in the very short-term (1-2 weeks) we could manage with jumpers, hot water bottles etc, but we're in no position to do this long-term while we wait for him to find money or get some shoddy, half-baked job done! The estate agent himself is very pleasant - we're going to speak to him about moving if it comes to it, but there is literally nothing available at this exact moment for a dog and a baby!

odds_on

You should put the fault in writing to the landlord (keep a dated copy as this provides a paper trail in the event of a claim with the PRTB). Give him 7 days to remedy the fault and in the meantime he should supply, as a temporary measure, heaters (electric) for each habitable room in the property.

If the landlord fails to remedy the boiler within the specified time (except that he has had an engineer look at it and parts /new boiler has to be sourced) then he is probably in breach of his obligations. Again, if he fails to supply a temporary means of heating the property he will be in breach of his obligations.

If the landlord does not or will not supply another source of heating, having advised him, you are entitled to buy some heaters and deduct the cost from your next rent payment.

Again, if he cannot prove (by a certificate or service invoice) that the boiler has been maintained in a working and safe order, he is again in breach of other regulations.

Any or all of these breaches offer you a means of terminating the lease, by serving the landlord with a notice of termination in writing and 28 days notice. This may be reduces by mutual agreement to a shorter period (get it in writing from the landlord.

Under the circumstances, IMHO, you should be able to vacate as soon as you find another property.

Furthermore, if the landlord does not comply with his obligations, you could make a claim with the PRTB for damages.

If he has not got the money to repair / replace the boiler, you should probably be worried about your deposit as well!!

Paulw

Maybe he should check his landlord insurance, and claim on that. It should be covered. That's making the assumption he has insurance.

Oral Surgeon

ShaShaBear wrote: »

That's what worries us. I know that it is a huge expense, but a boiler packing in would suggest to me it hasn't been serviced or maintained. Obviously in the very short-term (1-2 weeks) we could manage with jumpers, hot water bottles etc, but we're in no position to do this long-term while we wait for him to find money or get some shoddy, half-baked job done! The estate agent himself is very pleasant - we're going to speak to him about moving if it comes to it, but there is literally nothing available at this exact moment for a dog and a baby!

I also wouldn't pay 2000 to get this fixed yourself as suggested earlier. What if other things break?? The landlord will owe you months of rent.... Lots of stuff can happen in the meantime. Don't be indebted to him and don't be the mug to fix his property. You need to get out and into a warm property.
Good luck,
Os

murphaph

If there really is nothing else available to rent then what about this for a long shot...if the LL lives locally then offer to swap houses until the heating is fixed. I understand the LL may be flat broke and really can't afford to fix but you can't have a baby in a hose without a functioning heating system.

cmssjone

ShaShaBear wrote: »

We are contracted until May, and there are no other options for moving out at present, just checked Daft. We're waiting to hear from the landlord tomorrow to see what he plans to do, but I was just wondering if this was reason to safely break contract and get deposit back. We would definitely not be in a position to pay two grand to fix a boiler, we have enough outgoings at the minute!

Does he have the deposit money to give back? Whilst you will eventually get it back through the PRTB, this may limit your ability to put down a deposit on a new place.

ShaShaBear

odds_on wrote: »

You should put the fault in writing to the landlord (keep a dated copy as this provides a paper trail in the event of a claim with the PRTB). Give him 7 days to remedy the fault and in the meantime he should supply, as a temporary measure, heaters (electric) for each habitable room in the property.

If the landlord fails to remedy the boiler within the specified time (except that he has had an engineer look at it and parts /new boiler has to be sourced) then he is probably in breach of his obligations. Again, if he fails to supply a temporary means of heating the property he will be in breach of his obligations.

If the landlord does not or will not supply another source of heating, having advised him, you are entitled to buy some heaters and deduct the cost from your next rent payment.

Again, if he cannot prove (by a certificate or service invoice) that the boiler has been maintained in a working and safe order, he is again in breach of other regulations.

Any or all of these breaches offer you a means of terminating the lease, by serving the landlord with a notice of termination in writing and 28 days notice. This may be reduces by mutual agreement to a shorter period (get it in writing from the landlord.

Under the circumstances, IMHO, you should be able to vacate as soon as you find another property.

Furthermore, if the landlord does not comply with his obligations, you could make a claim with the PRTB for damages.

If he has not got the money to repair / replace the boiler, you should probably be worried about your deposit as well!!

The deposit is not with him, it's with the estate agent - so we're not worried about that. While the estate agent has been doing everything above board, I can assure you the landlord himself has not, and we considered this none of our business really since we didn't have to deal with him until now. Our rent goes to the estate agent bank account directly.
I don't know what good sending a letter to the landlord would do, he's already been out to look at the boiler twice. He's a nice man, but it's obvious he doesn't have two pennies to rub together (like many of us) and it leaves us in a predicament as we can't really afford to heat the whole house on electric radiators and get up hours earlier every morning to turn the immersion on. We've no way to dry clothes now either without the heat!

Oral Surgeon

murphaph wrote: »

If there really is nothing else available to rent then what about this for a long shot...if the LL lives locally then offer to swap houses until the heating is fixed. I understand the LL may be flat broke and really can't afford to fix but you can't have a baby in a hose without a functioning heating system.

This is not going to happen,
Either he fixes it now or move out and get your deposit...

ShaShaBear

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

This is not going to happen,
Either he fixes it now or move out and get your deposit...

:P
Definitely not going to happen at all, he lives in his own house in the countryside with wife and three kids, I doubt he's going to let us move! :rolleyes:

He promised to call tomorrow with the situation update, and I would like to move as amicably as possible. Just wanted to be sure that not supplying heating within a certain timeframe was cause enough to break a lease, but we're very happy with the estate agent himself, so we were hoping to have him relocate us (as he has the deposit, and would be able to give good reference on paid rent and the doggie).
There's about 6 properties in my area at the minute in our price range, only two are houses and one is next door to the nightclub, so that's a big no-no. The other doesn't allow pets. There is a nice apartment, no mention of pets but I would assume the same. We'll mention it to him Friday if the landlord doesn't call tomorrow.

P. Breathnach

If you move out, the landlord loses his rental income. is chances of getting another tenant in a house without a functioning boiler are just about zero. I don't know what rent you are paying, but I imagine that about three months' loss of rent would cost him as much as replacing the boiler. So in three months' time he could be down about €2k, have no tenants, and still have to find the money to replace the boiler.

The only thing that makes economic sense for him is to find €2k somewhere.

Perhaps he could find a contractor to supply and fit a boiler and accept instalment payments equal to your monthly rent. It is a point of honour for many plumbers, heating contractors, and electricians that they respond to emergencies. They might regard your situation as an emergency (especially with the pregnancy - there can be advantages in showing early, if you do). That might result in a willingness to make a deal with your landlord.

ShaShaBear

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If you move out, the landlord loses his rental income. is chances of getting another tenant in a house without a functioning boiler are just about zero. I don't know what rent you are paying, but I imagine that about three months' loss of rent would cost him as much as replacing the boiler. So in three months' time he could be down about €2k, have no tenants, and still have to find the money to replace the boiler.

The only thing that makes economic sense for him is to find €2k somewhere.

Perhaps he could find a contractor to supply and fit a boiler and accept instalment payments equal to your monthly rent. It is a point of honour for many plumbers, heating contractors, and electricians that they respond to emergencies. They might regard your situation as an emergency (especially with the pregnancy - there can be advantages in showing early, if you do). That might result in a willingness to make a deal with your landlord.

That seems like a practical answer but he did admit to us that our monthly rent is actually paying his mortgage on this house at present.
We're hoping he has the decency to call tomorrow evening to at least discuss a plan of progress. We were hoping to stay here until our lease was up and have two months or so to find somewhere to move with the baby in tow, I've been the victim of "renter's goggles" in an emergency relocation before
I would, of course, be willing to come to an arrangement with him once he could promise and assure us the issue would be fixed completely and properly within a designated timeframe.

punisher5112

It is quite possible that he may go and buy a number of oil filled rads and give them into you to do for the next while.

Obviously not the most ideal as your electricity bills will increase but I think it is something that can be done as heating is supplied.

But you really should look at leaving and finding a new place as you don't need any addd stress at this stage especially while pregnant so I do hope it all gets sorted or if easier leave.

Best of luck op.

ShaShaBear

punisher5112 wrote: »

It is quite possible that he may go and buy a number of oil filled rads and give them into you to do for the next while.

Obviously not the most ideal as your electricity bills will increase but I think it is something that can be done as heating is supplied.

But you really should look at leaving and finding a new place as you don't need any addd stress at this stage especially while pregnant so I do hope it all gets sorted or if easier leave.

Best of luck op.

He wouldn't even pay for a €30 tub of paint to cover the luminous pink walls covered in crayon marks, make-up and chips when we moved in, so I seriously doubt he would buy enough oil-filled rads to adequately heat even the three rooms in this 4-bed house that we use most often.

punisher5112

If he is that bad leave as its un healthy and well within your rights as the property is not kept to minimum standards.

Ifyou feel you have no option to stay which I think is crazy then contact Threshold and ask for their advice then the PRTB after that.

If he wouldn't cover the cost of €30 that should maybe have rang alarm bells as he doesn't seem to care and when you are leaving probably try and put repainting costs on you.

ShaShaBear

punisher5112 wrote: »

If he is that bad leave as its un healthy and well within your rights as the property is kept to minimum standards.

Ifyou feel you have no option to stay which I think is crazy then contact Threshold and ask for their advice then the PRTB after that.

If he wouldn't cover the cost of €30 that should maybe have rang alarm bells as he doesn't seem to care and when you are leaving probably try and put repainting costs on you.

We have dated pictures of the condition of the place before we moved in, and again the estate agent saw the place when he showed us around. We did take it because the estate agent assured us the landlord was a good sort, and both promised the house would be repainted. Again, it was an emergency sort of move and we had little choice but to take it. Everything else seemed in excellent order, so a few licks of paint didn't seem to be an issue.

We redecorated the living room after getting permission from the landlord and it is impeccable, so it will be pretty obvious we didn't keep the sitting room paint in perfect condition and wreck the rest of the place. But again, I do want to keep it amicable, the deposit was over €500 before rent, so I would really not like to have to fight to get it back, or we are on the streets!

punisher5112

ShaShaBear wrote: »

We have dated pictures of the condition of the place before we moved in, and again the estate agent saw the place when he showed us around. We did take it because the estate agent assured us the landlord was a good sort, and both promised the house would be repainted. Again, it was an emergency sort of move and we had little choice but to take it. Everything else seemed in excellent order, so a few licks of paint didn't seem to be an issue.

We redecorated the living room after getting permission from the landlord and it is impeccable, so it will be pretty obvious we didn't keep the sitting room paint in perfect condition and wreck the rest of the place. But again, I do want to keep it amicable, the deposit was over €500 before rent, so I would really not like to have to fight to get it back, or we are on the streets!

As I said contact Threshold and they can't keep your deposit so you do have a lot of backing on your side.

MCD.

Paulw wrote: »

Maybe he should check his landlord insurance, and claim on that. It should be covered. That's making the assumption he has insurance.

Home insurance will not cover mechanical breakdown of a boiler. It would be like claiming (under your motor insurance) for a new car cause your one just stopped working one day.

Best of luck, op. More than enough grounds to break the lease. I would have some sympathy for the LL if he is genuinely broke. As was said above scraping together 2k or part there of to get the boiler fixed is his only real option from a financial perspective.

Mrs OBumble

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I don't know what good sending a letter to the landlord would do, he's already been out to look at the boiler twice.

He's a nice man, but it's obvious he doesn't have two pennies to rub together ...

we can't really afford to heat the whole house on electric radiators and get up hours earlier every morning to turn the immersion on. We've no way to dry clothes now either without the heat!

Sending a letter gives you an audit trail, in case it gets nasty later on.

How do you know he doesn't have two pennies? What real proof have you got, apart from his say-so? Very often wealthy enough people are like that because they choose to live simply and not waste money on non-essentials, and there's a category of Irish rural property owner who are expert at this.


I don't for one minute think that you should pay for the boiler and then pay reduced rent for months to be "paid back". As someone said, too many other things could go wrong (eg do you have permission to have a third person living in the house once your chidl is born?). BUT you really should have 12 weeks worth of living money in the bank at all times: if your partner lost his job, then it could be this long before welfare payments come through, and you need to have an adequate buffer in place to pay the rent etc in the meantime.

runawaybishop

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I don't know what good sending a letter to the landlord would do, he's already been out to look at the boiler twice.

Just to reiterate. Given that you are asking about breaking the lease it is essential you have followed the correct procedure and that letter is part of it.

ShaShaBear

runawaybishop wrote: »

Just to reiterate. Given that you are asking about breaking the lease it is essential you have followed the correct procedure and that letter is part of it.

To be honest, it just sounds incredibly cheeky and rude when he is being entirely amicable about it so far. Sending the letter just makes it seem as though we are cutting ties with him on a friendly level and giving him ultimatums. I get that it is the "correct" way to do things, but I highly doubt he would be as pleasant to deal with if we had any problems with him afterwards?

As for him being broke, his family and my family are good friends (my dad worked with him in trades), like many tradesmen in the very, very small area where I live, he bought houses in a brand new estate (about 10 years ago) and fixer-uppered them himself. He has opened bills and debt collector letters in our house before, he's very honest and open about it and like a previous poster said, I completely and utterly sympathise. But I won't suffer as a result of his problems.

We're giving him today as requested to make a decision and then we will be going to the estate agent. Would it be as "correct" to address the estate agent in the letter instead of the landlord, since that is who we pay the rent to? I'd be giving it in person, so I could explain myself better.

runawaybishop

ShaShaBear wrote: »

To be honest, it just sounds incredibly cheeky and rude when he is being entirely amicable about it so far. Sending the letter just makes it seem as though we are cutting ties with him on a friendly level and giving him ultimatums. I get that it is the "correct" way to do things, but I highly doubt he would be as pleasant to deal with if we had any problems with him afterwards?

As for him being broke, his family and my family are good friends (my dad worked with him in trades), like many tradesmen in the very, very small area where I live, he bought houses in a brand new estate (about 10 years ago) and fixer-uppered them himself. He has opened bills and debt collector letters in our house before, he's very honest and open about it and like a previous poster said, I completely and utterly sympathise. But I won't suffer as a result of his problems.

We're giving him today as requested to make a decision and then we will be going to the estate agent. Would it be as "correct" to address the estate agent in the letter instead of the landlord, since that is who we pay the rent to? I'd be giving it in person, so I could explain myself better.

He is your landlord and this is a business - it is affecting your basic rights. You dont have to get thick in the letter, just lay out the issue and request that it is dealt with correctly.

Merl1n

You could do a deal with him to get it fixed yourself and you pay for it
Then stop paying rent until you get your costs back plus interest

ShaShaBear

Merl1n wrote: »

You could do a deal with him to get it fixed yourself and you pay for it
Then stop paying rent until you get your costs back plus interest

As I said already, I absolutely would not have €2000 floating around in the nether to pay for a broke boiler. My partner only recently became re-employed and we have a lot of outgoings.
Regardless of that, I simply don't think I should have to even suggest that. By my reckoning, if he was following safety regulations and getting the boiler serviced, it wouldn't have packed in (or rather this would have been noticed and repaired much sooner).

djimi

ShaShaBear wrote: »

To be honest, it just sounds incredibly cheeky and rude when he is being entirely amicable about it so far. Sending the letter just makes it seem as though we are cutting ties with him on a friendly level and giving him ultimatums. I get that it is the "correct" way to do things, but I highly doubt he would be as pleasant to deal with if we had any problems with him afterwards?

As for him being broke, his family and my family are good friends (my dad worked with him in trades), like many tradesmen in the very, very small area where I live, he bought houses in a brand new estate (about 10 years ago) and fixer-uppered them himself. He has opened bills and debt collector letters in our house before, he's very honest and open about it and like a previous poster said, I completely and utterly sympathise. But I won't suffer as a result of his problems.

We're giving him today as requested to make a decision and then we will be going to the estate agent. Would it be as "correct" to address the estate agent in the letter instead of the landlord, since that is who we pay the rent to? I'd be giving it in person, so I could explain myself better.

I get what you are saying, but ultimately you are going to have to start making moves to free yourself from the lease if this issue doesnt get sorted, and there is no point in playing nice now if it weakens your position down the line.

Id be inclined to see how tonight goes first and then plan your next move accordingly. If you get the impression that this issue is not going to get sorted any time soon then you are going to have to start thinking about whats best for you and your family, even if it means some short term unpleasantness until the matter gets sorted. Your landlord might be a family friend and a decent bloke, but ultimately he is running a business without the financial ability to do so, and you are the one who is suffering.

Best of luck tonight either way; I hope it works out for you.